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Official Wyred 4 Sound Amp Thread - Page 43

post #1261 of 1583
If you're going to eventually sell that 400x7, lmk where you're located. I'll check with my brother if he'd be interested. PM me...
post #1262 of 1583
Nice review on STI-500/DAC-2 over at Secrets:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/ampli...00-review.html
post #1263 of 1583
So just hooked up my W4S Mini 7CH. So far, not overly impressed compared to my Sunfire 200x7. First and foremost, this puppy runs VERY hot, even after 15 minutes of just being on without much playing through it (i.e., watching TV at -30db) it is very hot to the touch.

Second, how much gain is on the balanced XLRs? With my Marantz AV7005, I have the front channels all the way down to -9db, and two of the rear channels (closest to the LP) had to get changed to -12 and are still 1db too hot on my SPL meter? With the Sunfire, the CH levels on the 7005 were 9db less, so curious if the gain structure on the W4S is too high? I'm hoping it's not a 32db gain on the balanced outputs (like the Emotiva's) but have a bad feeling that is the case with the Mini?
post #1264 of 1583
Cr*p, just read the website, and this amp is rated at 30.8db of gain vs the more "usual" 26/27db of gain (like their larger amps). Why the heck would this amp have so much gain on it?? Really don't want to go the attenuator route, but doesn't look like I have much choice short of selling the amp that I just bought! Didn't think the gain would be an issue. Grrrr...
post #1265 of 1583
Seems to me that 30 dB of gain would not present too big of an issue. Are you trying to make two amps match up? Or are you using the W4S amp for all channels?
post #1266 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Seems to me that 30 dB of gain would not present too big of an issue. Are you trying to make two amps match up? Or are you using the W4S amp for all channels?

Using it for all channels, no other amps in the chain ....

Now, I did run Audyssey with the other (Sunfire) amp hooked up and haven't rerun it yet but don't think that would pose much of an issue (i.e., even if for some reason the frequency response with a different amp would change I can't imagine it resulting in a 9db swing)...
post #1267 of 1583
I am using my receiver's internal amps, an Emotiva XPA-3 and a Crown XLS 1000, and I matched all those with no issues. Seems strange if you are having problems with only having to get one amp with a pretty normal gain to work...
post #1268 of 1583
I've also got a QSC RMX5050 for my dual subs, no issues with the gain structure for my subs.

Just the W4S Mini 7CH. Can't think of anything else (given the amp of course does not have a gain knob on it). I've also emailed W4S.

Does anyone here own this particular amp and can confirm how hot it gets (or having issues with gain)?
post #1269 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

I've also got a QSC RMX5050 for my dual subs, no issues with the gain structure for my subs.

Just the W4S Mini 7CH. Can't think of anything else (given the amp of course does not have a gain knob on it). I've also emailed W4S.

Does anyone here own this particular amp and can confirm how hot it gets (or having issues with gain)?

Steve,

When I reviewed their 5 channel MC amp, it never got hot at all.
post #1270 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

I've also got a QSC RMX5050 for my dual subs, no issues with the gain structure for my subs.

Just the W4S Mini 7CH. Can't think of anything else (given the amp of course does not have a gain knob on it). I've also emailed W4S.

Does anyone here own this particular amp and can confirm how hot it gets (or having issues with gain)?

Hmmm, I don't have the mini but can't believe it would be hotter. Warm summer evening breeze is about has hot as mine has ever gotten after a crazy evening of playing well beyond normal levels. You might want to drop an eamil to EJ W4S and ask him.
post #1271 of 1583
I sent an email, though, looking at their manual it states in there that "due to the smaller chassis" the Mini will get hotter than their larger models. I gave it more space and now it just gets very warm, versus very, very hot ...
post #1272 of 1583
Hi Guys,
I'm considering purchasing a W4S ST-1000 to drive my main L-R front (B&W 801) speakers. In addition my system would consist of a Marantz pre AV7005 and a Rotel 1095 to drive the remaining 5 speakers.
I'm hesitant to order it because, if it does not blend in adequately, I hate to pay the 15% re-stocking fee. Any previous experience or advice on this would be greatly appreciated.
Sa
post #1273 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sa_M View Post
Hi Guys,
I'm considering purchasing a W4S ST-1000 to drive my main L-R front (B&W 801) speakers. In addition my system would consist of a Marantz pre AV7005 and a Rotel 1095 to drive the remaining 5 speakers.
I'm hesitant to order it because, if it does not blend in adequately, I hate to pay the 15% re-stocking fee. Any previous experience or advice on this would be greatly appreciated.
Sa
Your B&W 801 does have some difficult load between 50Hz to 1.2KHz.


Parasound 2125 or 2250 amps will do fine for less money than W4S ST-1000.
post #1274 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

Your B&W 801 does have some difficult load between 50Hz to 1.2KHz.


Parasound 2125 or 2250 amps will do fine for less money than W4S ST-1000.

Thanks for the Info.
I was thinking of using the A21 as an alternative.
What is your opinion on that?
post #1275 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sa_M View Post

Thanks for the Info.
I was thinking of using the A21 as an alternative.
What is your opinion on that?

If you can afford it, sure. But you don't have to spend that much for high quality amplification.
post #1276 of 1583
Hello all, I'm new to this forum and new to this hobby of Audiophilia

I've just recently purchased the W4S MC5 3x2 amp and having a bit of a problem finding spade connectors that will fit the binding posts on the back. Before I purchased the amp I spoke to a rep on the phone and he said the binding posts were a 1/4". Unfortunately, the rep was wrong and the posts are 5/16". I've tried the ViaBlue 8mm but they wont fit in the slot. I have some Oyaide 5/16" spades that will fit through the slot and fit the binding post but they are for 8 awg wire. I don't have a crimp tool that is stout enough to crimp the 8 awg Oyaides and dont really want to purchase one. A small vice is an option though as I could use that for other things.

I'm building my own cables with 12 awg wire and was hoping that maybe some of you W4S owners could point me in the direction to some forked spade connectors for 10/12/14 awg wire that you have used and know will fit through the binding post slot and fit the 5/16" binding post. Any input is greatly appreciated.
post #1277 of 1583
Have just bought and installed the W4S DAC2. I have a PC that is USB connected to the W4S DAC2 and connected 2 ch analogue to my NAD T785HD. In addition my PC is connected with HDMI through my NAD to get the PC screen on my TV. I have installed a Acer Revo 100 connected to an external 2TB Iomega HDD.
I run FOOBAR2000 with the Darkone 3.01 skin to play my 1TB collection of CDs ripped to FLAC.
My collection of FLAC consist of normal CDs, but I have also FLAC files in 24/96 and 24/192 resolution. All of these FLAC files plays perfect and it switches nicely on the DAC2 screen according to the resolution of the files. (It took me some time to get the correct setup in Foobar2000, but now I think it work as it should)

The DAC2 is still in it's "Break-In" time. Currently only played 30 hours.
The first impression is very good and I look forward to compare it my Oppo BDP-83SE and Denon 3930.
post #1278 of 1583
We just swapped the DAC2 out for an Audiolab 8200CDQ. It was a simpler one box solution with CDP, DAC and 3 analog inputs in one. Can't say there was a big difference.
post #1279 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiske View Post

The DAC2 is still in it's "Break-In" time. Currently only played 30 hours.

Transistor gears are ready when they leave the factory, no need for break-in time. If you are talking about vacuum tube gears, that's another matter.
post #1280 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

Transistor gears are ready when they leave the factory, no need for break-in time. If you are talking about vacuum tube gears, that's another matter.

At least that's what Wyred4Sound says in their manual.
Plus I can actually hear difference after hours of use.

I guess this is an area that have been discussed over and over with different opinions and outcome.
post #1281 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiske View Post

At least that's what Wyred4Sound says in their manual.
Plus I can actually hear difference after hours of use.

I guess this is an area that have been discussed over and over with different opinions and outcome.

The change you perceive is your hearing sense getting used to it. Retailers put out such recommendations so that the customers don't return them as easily after spending $1000 - 1500 on a DAC only to not notice the difference worthy of such high price. Boutique cable companies do this too. Sorry but the truth is something called "marketing strategy".

I'll bet someone from Wyred would want to counter me for exposing this. It's all about the money.
post #1282 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

The change you perceive is your hearing sense getting used to it. Retailers put out such recommendations so that the customers don't return them as easily after spending $1000 - 1500 on a DAC only to not notice the difference worthy of such high price. Boutique cable companies do this too. Sorry but the truth is something called "marketing strategy".

I'll bet someone from Wyred would want to counter me for exposing this. It's all about the money.

Of course it's about the money. But, I feel it's an interesting time for the music and movie enthusiast.

I have used some coins during the years building up my HT to be able to play everything from CD, SACD, DVD-Audio, BD-Audio plus movies in DVD and BluRay formats.
My CD collection grew too large and I digitized it to be able to play it from a computer. Some of it is FLAC and I also have it in APE and Wavepack

My believe is that higher resolution music will find it's way to a broader audience than those who bought SACD and DVD-Audio. (I have also a large SACD and DVD-Audio collection)

I can assure you that the W4S DAC2 really is a very nice add-on in my PC playing chain.

Of course the WAF factor could be higher , but that's another story.
post #1283 of 1583
I read that Class D amps can have as much as 40 to 60 DC Voltage present on the output terminals at idle relative to common ground and hence the loudspeaker connection and cable.

Source of this information can be found HERE (see page 12 and 23).

If I wanted to connect powered subwoofers that only have High-Level inputs (such as the Vandersteen 2Wq's) to a W4S amp , could having 40 to 60 VDC on the output terminals possibly damage the internal amps in the Vandy subs?
post #1284 of 1583
I'm somewhat confused now because I read that the Bel Canto e.One REF 500M, which is also a Class D amp that uses ICE modules, doesn't seem to have the issue with DC voltage on the output terminals. How do I know this? If you look down the page and read the second paragraph located under the picture of the rearview of the amp of the article located HERE it states that that:

Finally, John points out a slight difference in the fully balanced output stage of the two power amplifiers: "The output of the REF500M is at ground potential while the REF1000M is at 60VDC common mode above ground.

My W4S SX 1000 monos are fully balanced but according to Clint, who I spoke with at W4S, there is about 40 VDC at the output of my amps. I find it interesting that the "1000" versions of both W4S and Bel Canto have significant VDC at the output terminals while the the output of the REF500M is at ground potential.

I'm still concerned though about connecting a sub, such as the Vandy 2Wq, via High-Level inputs to my W4S SX-1000 monos due to the level of DC voltage on the output terminals. But would I be correct in assuming since the the output of the REF500M is at ground potential, that there would be no cause for concern if the REF500M were to be connected to the High-Level inputs of the Vandy 2Wq subs?
post #1285 of 1583
The REF500M uses a new ICE module vs the older gen used in the REF1000M (ASP1000). The W4S uses the older ASP500 modules (same gen as the REF1000M)

The REF500M is much smaller, which is how they can fit TWO modules in the REF500S in the same sized box as the REF500M
post #1286 of 1583
Very interesting. Thanks for the info.

See I was told that Vandersteen does NOT want Class D digital amps connected to their subs, due to this significant measurable voltage on the output terminals when a digital Class D amp is at idle (powered on but no music being played). This is because the Vandy 2Wq gets connected directly to the output terminals of the amp.

"The 2Wq
receives its input from the power amplifier and is designed to
maintain maximum sonic continuity between the subwoofers
and main speakers in all music and home theater systems
where a crossover can be inserted between the
preamplifier/processor and the main power amplifier
."

More info on the Vandy 2Wq can be found HERE.

2 questions:

1.) where I noted above that the Bel Canto e.One REF 500M output is at "ground potential", can I assume that to mean it has virtually no measurable voltage on the output terminals at idle?

2.) would I be correct in assuming since the the output of the REF500M is at ground potential, that there would be no cause for concern if the REF500M were to be connected to the High-Level inputs of the Vandy 2Wq subs?
post #1287 of 1583
Hi,
I'm in the UK and would love to buy a W4S amp, but I'm concerned it might not be sensible to do so.
What happens when the warranty runs out and the amp breaks down - wouldn't I need to send it to the US, which is very expensive for such a heavy item and which would leave me without an amp for months.
Do people have any thoughts on this?
Thanks,
Tom
post #1288 of 1583
post #1289 of 1583
Thanks Pras1011,
I am aware of Item Audio and they seem OK,, though some feedback on them is less than brilliant.
My main worry, though is what happens once the warranty expires. Then it is, surely, up to me to deal with any repairs. As there is no W4S repair centre in the UK, that could be costly.
Thanks,
Tom
post #1290 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

The change you perceive is your hearing sense getting used to it. Retailers put out such recommendations so that the customers don't return them as easily after spending $1000 - 1500 on a DAC only to not notice the difference worthy of such high price. Boutique cable companies do this too. Sorry but the truth is something called "marketing strategy".

You speak with great authority on the subject, but I fail to see how your are qualified to make such judgements. Care to offer a respectable reference to back this up? Yeah, I didn't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geekhd View Post

I'll bet someone from Wyred would want to counter me for exposing this. It's all about the money.

Why would they waste their breath? You start posting here with a clear dislike for Wyred's products. This is common troll behavior. Embarassing, really.
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