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Official Wyred 4 Sound Amp Thread - Page 45

post #1321 of 1583
Hi Everyone/ Ej,

Anyone try w4s sx1000 with aerial LR5 and aerial center CC5 for HT system ? I am planing to buy 3set of sx1000 for LR5 andCC5.

Curently i am using bryston 4bst for LR5 and bridged 3bst for cc5.

Best

Willy
post #1322 of 1583
I feel as a whole, Class AB amps and Class D ICEpowered amps have slightly different characteristics.

Class AB tends to have better mids/highs where ICE tends to sound more lean.

But Class D exerts amazing control of the bass.. very tight and fast.
post #1323 of 1583
Hello all, I am long overdue for this but have finally gotten settled to be able to write something up.

First off I will go over some background so you can all understand what I am comparing too and what my system consists of. Also, I do not consider myself an "Audiophile". I am just an enthusiast that got involved at an early age and always had a love for electronics and audio. Like most, I have been working on my setup for what seems like forever. Back in 2003/2004 time frame I purchased the majority of my components which at the time consisted of two Rotel beasts. One was the RMB-1095 which is a 5x200 amp and an RB-1090 which is around 2x360. These are considered classic Rotel amps and have been highly regarded over the years. They each weigh around 90lbs a piece and can be somewhat a challenge getting them in and out of a rack as you can imagine. The Rotel's always had a pleasant sound but for some reason I was never overly impressed with them. I always thought they were a little soft and a little too laid back but it really could just be my other components in the mix.

My pre-amp at the time was a B&K Ref 50 and my speakers are some older Paradigm Reference series 100's rev2, 60's rev 2, and a Studio CC for the center channel.

Fast forward to last year and I got really involved again in our media room and really began to get tired of the Rotel amps weight, and most of all, heat output. Our media room is relatively small (15x14x8) and watching a movie started to get really uncomfortable as it was just getting too warm in the room. The amps were literally space heaters! Plus, every time I had to move the amps around due to changes, I almost always seemed to nick the wood in my rack because of their size and weight. So my primary complaints of the Rotels were weight, heat, electrical consumption, and on top of all of that, I was never really that impressed with the overall sound. Again, not saying it was the amps but maybe more of the combination of components. So at some point during all of this I decided to see what else is out there and discovered Class D amps. They sounded (no pun intended) perfect for what I was looking for. Light weight, compact, energy efficient, and low heat output. I did the typical research and as you can tell, pulled the trigger on the MMC 7. I struggled with this decision because as most of you know (and the reason for my review), is that there is very little information out there on these amps and that there is no way to audition them without spending a lot of money (15% restocking fee by W4S if you are not satisfied). So this is for anybody, a complete leap of faith. I also struggled between the MMC 7 and the bigger brother MC as I wanted to make sure I got it right first time out. I ultimately decided to pull the trigger on the MM7 due to it's compact size. It was the better fit in my current rack design and no other manufacture that I know of makes anything similar to it in size and specs. This of course was a concern because the amp seemed to good to be true. Also I thought I could always return it and pay the difference and all of the fees if I wasn't satisfied and go for the MC version. I have to say that this is one of the best purchases in audio I have made to date.

The order process was pretty straight forward and I did it via Wyred4Sounds website. I didn't receive any typical email confirmation so I called to confirm and was told that orders are actually processed manually. She also told me that once she got the order, that it would go off to assembly and be put together and then I would get a notification once it ships. So the one thing I found interesting about this is that all Wyred4Sound amps are made to order and that there are none laying around waiting to be shipped. The assembly must be pretty quick because I believe I received a shipment update within a couple of days.

The packaged arrived double packed so it seems that W4S really pays attention to all aspects of the experience. The shipment even came with some damage to the box (most likely due to UPS) but because of the double packing, the amp remained unharmed. I have added pictures below for those interested. I also took extra pics of the amp itself as I have always felt like there are really no good pics of these amps, so hopefully some can see what the amp really looks like.

Upon removing the amp you get the impression that there is more there then what the numbers present. This amp weighs around 30lbs so my first fear was that it would feel light and cheap. Totally not the case once you get it in your hands. It feels very well put together and nothing light or cheap about it at all. I even really like how the amp looks once you see it up close. Very industrial looking and stout. The craftsmanship really stands out so no disappointment there. Additional pics below reveal the mono-blocks all nicely aligned from the top down. I also have pics showing the amp in my rack so you can get an idea of it's height.

Installation is pretty straight forward as with any amp with the exception that this amp is compact and does not weigh a whole lot. This was a very welcomed changed from what I was used too. I am using the XLR outs so I had to set the switch on the back to XLR.

My first MMC 7 unfortunately had a channel failure within the first few days of break-in. I am happy to report though that W4S handled the problem extremely well and shipped out another amp with a return shipping label for the defective one. So as a side note, feel confident that W4S will take care of you.

One of my concerns with the MMC7 was heat output. Everything I have read and heard have suggested that the MMC series run warmer then the bigger brother. How much warmer was never really described and I believe that is because of the limited amount of exposure people have with them. The review on the Home Theater Shack suggest that the amp runs slightly warm to the touch and I would have to agree. The amp does get warm but nothing ever really to be concerned with. You can see the amount of top space I have left for it to breath in the pics. This seems to be sufficient as I believe someone else on this forum had another experience with heat when they put the amp in a restricted air space.

I also agree with Home Theater Shack that this amp is quite and you literally have to put your ear on the speakers to hear anything electrical and even then it is extremely faint. I had also purchased an Integra DHC 80.2 pre-amp at the same time and this combo just simply rocks! My system is finally where I want it to be at. Not to sound like every other positive experience but I am literally hearing more detail out of all sources. I ran the system nonstop for days to get past the 100 hours break-in by using WMA lossless files on a thumb drive. Can't really comment on if the break-in really made that much of a difference but I am so impressed with the sound that I will be keeping this setup for quite some time. To say that I am impressed is an understatement actually and I can't recommend enough for anyone considering these amps to definitely try them out. Supposedly the bigger MC series sound even better but I am so satisfied with how everything turned out that I am not even interested in those anymore. The more I listen to the system the more enjoyable it comes and this is what it is all supposed to be about. 2 channel music and home theater are simply some of the best I have heard out of my system. I am blown away by the stereo imaging, the clarity, and detail of the music I am listening too. It pretty much coincides with what others say about the stereo and mono-block amps but those supposedly sound even better!

I hope this helps others researching this purchase as they will find out shortly there is very little information out there and that this purchase is a total leap of faith. Please feel free to ask any questions and I will try to accommodate as best as possible.

Thanks,
Greg
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post #1324 of 1583
More pics...
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post #1325 of 1583
@McLuvin,

Thank you for your detailed write-up, especially the pics, as you noted the W4S site is currently lacking in photos and details. Thanks to you this amp will definitely stay on my short list for when I finally make the switch to separates.

Please keep us updated on how the amp continues to perform.

BTW, any pics of the amp powered-on?
post #1326 of 1583
I think the blue neon strip on the last photo would indicate a powered up status, as it does on my SP1000 power amp. The blue is different on mine, though that could be photo limitations of neon.

In any event, it is a 'sexy' looking amp, IMO
post #1327 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILPS9200 View Post

I think the blue neon strip on the last photo would indicate a powered up status, as it does on my SP1000 power amp.

I can confirm that this photo shows the MMC 7 powered on.

@McLuvin,
Great review ... thanks for it..
Did you test it with your previous preamp or all was done with the new one ?
post #1328 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by laulau View Post

@McLuvin,

Thank you for your detailed write-up, especially the pics, as you noted the W4S site is currently lacking in photos and details. Thanks to you this amp will definitely stay on my short list for when I finally make the switch to separates.

Please keep us updated on how the amp continues to perform.

BTW, any pics of the amp powered-on?

Yes, the last two pics are with the amp on. ILPS9200 is correct in that the photo gives the neon a flushed look. It actually looks pretty good and is much different then the standard lights you typically see. Also, according to the manual you can adjust the light intensity so if you don't like it you can turn it off if I read correctly. I have left mine as it came because it just looks right.

One thing that caught my attention when researching was the input stage that W4S puts on all of their amps. They claim that this helps in component matching which was one of my primary concerns. I was so on the fence about this that I was trying to convince myself to only look at amps made by the same manufactures as the pre-amps I was researching. The idea of course is knowing that the components will work together as the manufacturer intended. When mixing manufactures you are never too sure how things will turn out and I think that might be one of the reasons why my previous setup didn't totally blow me away. It could all be snake oil but I know in my case it is working out very well.

For what it's worth, I was also checking out Outlaw amps. I almost went that route because I don't think Outlaw charges any restocking fees if you are not satisfied but the weight and size of the amp deterred me so I stuck with W4S.

Good luck on your search!

Greg
post #1329 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by PEM75 View Post

I can confirm that this photo shows the MMC 7 powered on.

@McLuvin,
Great review ... thanks for it..
Did you test it with your previous preamp or all was done with the new one ?

I was going to at first but everything sounds so good that i just didn't want to mess with it. I have changed out components so much over the past year that it is one of those things where you are afraid to touch anything once it sounds good. Silly I know... I have the B&K up for sale right now but I might swap it out for comparisons if I am feeling adventurous but we have our first baby due in a few months and I have so many other things to do that I doubt I will get time.

I also have an Anthem D1 that I purchased last year to replace the B&K and I ran that for a short time on the Rotels. Very nice pre-pro and I was going to use it with the W4S but just had a 'screw it' moment and bought the Integra piece. All digital just made since to me at this point. I haven't put it up for sale yet and have been dragging my feet but I am curious how it would sound on the W4S.

Greg
post #1330 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLuvin View Post

I was going to at first but everything sounds so good that i just didn't want to mess with it.

I can understand, I also change a lot of thing in a short time and didn't spend time to try all combinations .... I am very happy of the final result and don't try to identifer what was improved by each element ........
post #1331 of 1583
McLuvin, sorry, just reading up on this thread (literally just sold my amp) and noticed your question about the heat. Glad it's working out for you. I originally had the MMC in my salamander rack, similar as yours, but had less space above it and the sides were on the rack as well. So the unit was getting very warm, but after increasing the space above it it was just "relatively warm" to the touch.

I was originally hoping I'd save a few inches over the Sunfire amp in terms of height, but that never panned out. The Sunfire runs incredibly cool and I can actually put a component right on top of it as it dissipates heat through the sides. So I was losing space at the end of the day, and ended up getting my Sunfire repaired at relatively low cost.

Glad to see you're enjoying the amp! I loved the "blue glow" that came from the amp when it was on!
post #1332 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

McLuvin, sorry, just reading up on this thread (literally just sold my amp) and noticed your question about the heat. Glad it's working out for you. I originally had the MMC in my salamander rack, similar as yours, but had less space above it and the sides were on the rack as well. So the unit was getting very warm, but after increasing the space above it it was just "relatively warm" to the touch.

I was originally hoping I'd save a few inches over the Sunfire amp in terms of height, but that never panned out. The Sunfire runs incredibly cool and I can actually put a component right on top of it as it dissipates heat through the sides. So I was losing space at the end of the day, and ended up getting my Sunfire repaired at relatively low cost.

Glad to see you're enjoying the amp! I loved the "blue glow" that came from the amp when it was on!

Not a problem PBC... Sorry to hear the MMC didn't work out for you. Glad to hear though that you did find something that works for your needs. Is there a big sound difference between the two? I assume you must really like the sound of the Sunfire better if you were willing to sell the MMC or was the space issue a bigger deal then you realized? I know space was for me.

Greg
post #1333 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLuvin View Post

Not a problem PBC... Sorry to hear the MMC didn't work out for you. Glad to hear though that you did find something that works for your needs. Is there a big sound difference between the two? I assume you must really like the sound of the Sunfire better if you were willing to sell the MMC or was the space issue a bigger deal then you realized? I know space was for me.

Greg

Space was the real issue. With my Sunfire I can place a CD player (or in my case a DCX2496) right on top of it and have no heat issues (heat slots are on the sides of the Sunfire). With the Wyred, I thought I'd have gained 1.5 to 2" of space as it was that much shorter. But it needs 3 to 4" of space above it (4 to 6 per Wyred) and I ended up losing out.

As for sound, I can't say I notice any difference. Admittedly I didn't have the Wyred on that much due to all the hum issues I was having. That was the other issue with the Wyred, the gain structure is different than the Sunfire and it was causing the 60hz hum to be much more audible whereas with the Sunfire I only hear it if I press my ear up to the speaker. Heck, I didn't notice a difference when I went from using my old Onkyo 876 to the 876 and Sunfire. I think the need for amps are over-rated, and the additional power is only useful for those of us who pound out reference level SPLs and/or have very large rooms to fill (I like to listen at reference quite often, though admittedly in my small room and relatively efficient speakers I probably still don't need an amp - but I'm a sucker for this stuff).

Admittedly as I was packing it up last night I was starting to miss it. Love the way it looks, and there's something about being able to say "ICE Power" that was kind of cool.
post #1334 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

Space was the real issue. With my Sunfire I can place a CD player (or in my case a DCX2496) right on top of it and have no heat issues (heat slots are on the sides of the Sunfire). With the Wyred, I thought I'd have gained 1.5 to 2" of space as it was that much shorter. But it needs 3 to 4" of space above it (4 to 6 per Wyred) and I ended up losing out.

Hi !
As I said before, I have element put on my MMC 7 , there is only 3 cm (1.18'') of space between them, and I don't have real problem...... it is warm but never hot, I can always put my hand on it..........
There is more space on the side......
bb
post #1335 of 1583
I have an STI500 & am looking at upgrading the main B & W CDM9NT mains when I move into our new house. The room size will be 6.5m*5.5m with a stud of 2.7m vaulted to 4.5m. I no longer use the center channel as I found it lowered the quality of the sound from just using the mains. I use the blu ray for mostly music & not movies.
Speakers I am considering are the B & W 804di & the monitor audio PL300. I have yet to make time to do the all important listening.
What speakers are you people using through your amps? Will 4 or 8ohms make a difference here? I read some speakers are incredibly current hungary. What are your thougts & recommendations.

Thanks
post #1336 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeesnz View Post

I have an STI500 & am looking at upgrading the main B & W CDM9NT mains when I move into our new house. The room size will be 6.5m*5.5m with a stud of 2.7m vaulted to 4.5m. I no longer use the center channel as I found it lowered the quality of the sound from just using the mains. I use the blu ray for mostly music & not movies.
Speakers I am considering are the B & W 804di & the monitor audio PL300. I have yet to make time to do the all important listening.
What speakers are you people using through your amps? Will 4 or 8ohms make a difference here? I read some speakers are incredibly current hungary. What are your thougts & recommendations.

Thanks

I have Legacy Audio Focus SE mains and Marquis HD center, both rated nominally 4 ohms. I am using the W4S MC6x500 in bi-amp configuration to power them and continually thrilled by the transparency and dynamics on both music and movies. The Marquis HD is one of the best center channel speakers you are likely to find IMO. Try to audition if you can.

Matt
post #1337 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeesnz View Post

What speakers are you people using through your amps? Will 4 or 8ohms make a difference here? I read some speakers are incredibly current hungary. What are your thougts & recommendations.

Thanks

I have BW CM9x2 + CMC2 + CM1x2 with a MMC7 (bi-amp the CM9)...
And for me , it works perfectly !

bye
post #1338 of 1583
ATC Loudspeakers are an excellent match with W4S ICEPower, I would recommend them without reservation.
post #1339 of 1583
Since you asked, I have W4S ST-250 powering PSB Stratus Bronze towers. These are 4 ohm nominal speakers and the W4S drives them as loud and clean as i could ever want. Cheers.
post #1340 of 1583
Hello All,

Ive tried to read as many of these threads as I can to answer my own question. I recently purchased a pair of Magnepan 3.6s and a Mcintosh MX135. The room is a media room with acoustic panels pretty much all over to room. The dimensions are 22x19x16. My question is this, Im considering the W4S MC-5 550wpc into 4ohms bi-wired so 1100wpc per channel leaving the remaining channel for the Magnepan CC3 center. I have only found info on this unit on this site. There is ONE review in which he compares it to his previous Anthem PV7 which I feel isnt a good comparison. Does Anyone Here Have this combination? Can anyone give me an idea of what to expect in terms of sound dynamics? Im considering purchasing this unit from UNDERGROUND AUDIO in Florida. Any and All help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Everyone
post #1341 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjbuoni View Post


I have Legacy Audio Focus SE mains and Marquis HD center, both rated nominally 4 ohms. I am using the W4S MC6x500 in bi-amp configuration to power them and continually thrilled by the transparency and dynamics on both music and movies. The Marquis HD is one of the best center channel speakers you are likely to find IMO. Try to audition if you can.

Matt

Hi Matt

Have you ever compare marquis hd center with aerial cc5 center speaker ? Why you decide to bi amp instead using 3 mono sx1000 ?
post #1342 of 1583
Hello,

Is there a way to use my ipad2 as a music source into the dac-1?
sti-1000,dac-1, nad cdp, saulk HT3s-
Thanks,

PB
post #1343 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy.djomi View Post

Hi Matt

Have you ever compare marquis hd center with aerial cc5 center speaker ? Why you decide to bi amp instead using 3 mono sx1000 ?

I never compared the aerial cc5 and the marquis hd directly. From the specs, the Marquis has a HUGE efficiency advantage (95 dB vs 86 dB), and that will make a big difference with dynamics. I suspect they have similar clarity and dispersion given their driver quality and configurations. Plus, I owned the Focus SE's first, which are pretty amazing for 2-channel at their price point. Having said that, the Marquis HD sounds open and unrestrained with a delicate and refined clarity that was missing in one other center channel I tried out (before owning the Focus SE's), the JTR Triple 12LF.

My main reason for bi-amping is that I use a multichannel analog preamp (Bel Canto Pre6) and do my bass management with a pair of Behringer DEQ2496's, which I do not trust not to degrade the signal in the mid and high frequencies. Another reason I chose to bi-amp is that I like the specs and measurements of the ASP500 modules over the ASP1000, and so I can put six of these in one chassis for just a little more $ than 3 SX1000's. This is completely a personal preference but the ASP500 has between 2-4x lower distortion and more extended highs and lower output impedance as I recall.
post #1344 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by photonblur View Post

Hello,

Is there a way to use my ipad2 as a music source into the dac-1?
sti-1000,dac-1, nad cdp, saulk HT3s-
Thanks,

PB

I've seen transports for the iPhone, but not the iPad. I've seen the iPad used as a remote for a NAS into a DAC too.
post #1345 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by photonblur View Post

Hello,

Is there a way to use my ipad2 as a music source into the dac-1?
sti-1000,dac-1, nad cdp, saulk HT3s-
Thanks,

PB

There may be some options:
A. Cambridge Audio dock but there are problems with iPad 2 when I tested it. iPad 1, iPhone 4, iPod touch 2 all worked. I think CA is working on it.

B. USB camera kit.
Not sure if the DAC1 works but if you have one lying around, give it a try.

C. ALO Audio Algorthythm Cypher Solo
Confirmed to work. But it is priciest. But it is battery operated (portable) and it has a decent Wolfson DAC.
post #1346 of 1583
Apple TV provides optical out and music can be sourced from Ipad
COE
post #1347 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeesnz View Post

I have an STI500 & am looking at upgrading the main B & W CDM9NT mains when I move into our new house. The room size will be 6.5m*5.5m with a stud of 2.7m vaulted to 4.5m. I no longer use the center channel as I found it lowered the quality of the sound from just using the mains. I use the blu ray for mostly music & not movies.
Speakers I am considering are the B & W 804di & the monitor audio PL300. I have yet to make time to do the all important listening.
What speakers are you people using through your amps? Will 4 or 8ohms make a difference here? I read some speakers are incredibly current hungary. What are your thougts & recommendations.

No doubt the B&Ws, with a minimum 3ohm impedance, will demand quite a lot of current from the amps, but this is where ICEpower excels IMO - very tolerant of difficult speaker loads and high instantaneous current capability. Your existing STI500 should be able to handle them, although I might be tempted to upgrade to the 1000 for headroom (or perhaps a more refined amp considering the cost of those beauties!).

I use a pair of SX-500s with my B&W 805S monitors and they breathe like never before. Of course, my amps never break a sweat - barely warm to the touch.
post #1348 of 1583
Well I ordered a MC 5x250 wpc in black. Should be here next week. Hope it lives up to all the hype. Switched from Class H to Class D. Went from 200 wpc to 250 wpc and cut the weight by more than half.

My system:
Marantz AV 7005
W4S MC5x250
B&W CM9, CM8 and CMC2
Def Tech 15" sub
Samsung 64" plasma
post #1349 of 1583
Any issues with the DAC2 and OSX Lion? I plan on buying a MAC mini next weekend for the Main system.
post #1350 of 1583
In case anyone was wondering, here is a reply from Wyred:

"We updated our Mac mini to 10.7 yesterday and the 10.6 driver work properly. I believe that it should be the same with a new computer which has the 10.7 on it from the beginning."



Clint
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