Official Wyred 4 Sound Amp Thread - Page 50

Yes, life is good and especially after that experience.
I've read were others are less fortunate. I was one more than once. Three things help, Intelligence, persistence, and someone smiling.

Kim

A SPL difference of ~6 dB can be explained by one of the two (+/-) signal wires in a XLR connector being shorted out. I once noticed an approximate 6dB difference in level between my L and R channels, and it turned out to be the XLR cable.

Not direct experience with the specific units you mention, but I just went from Parasound A52 to the big MC 7 x 250 few weeks back, and my experience is quite similar to the link you provided. Parasound is brighter and more in your face, while the W4S is so smooth. Much better control over bass as well with W4S. Very happy with the upgrade!

A bad XLR pot can/will also be a cause for the 6dB drop. I had this in my xpa-5. Emotiva shipped me a new pot and I took the sucker apart and fixed it myself. I just took delivery of a D-sonic and one of the asp500 modules were DOA.

I have the Wyred MC7 and it replaced a Sunfire TGA-7401. Any performance delta was negligible and would have been in my head. For the most part, an amp is an amp ... and most of the comparisons that talk about amplifier SQ are IMHO, unreliable.

^^^

Word.

I would have to agree that the difference was a bad XLR cable. After numerous times switching things around I had 2 cables left. I will test both and will probably find out it was one of the two.

Interesting. had the same problem with the right channel on my STI 500 using XLR. I found shifting the gear so it was closer together solved the problem ie the cable had a little more flex in it. Makes you wonder with at least 3 of us experiencing the problem if it is not a W4S issue?

I'm looking at creating a 9.2 HT system and my two top speaker choices are Danley and JTR, with an Integra 80.3 pre/pro. If Integra announces a 80.4 during CEDIA I'll probably wait and get that. As for amplification I'm looking at using two W4S MC amps, a 5 x 500 and a 6 x 250.

The 5 x 500 amp would be driving:
CH 1 - Left: Danley SH-50 or JTR T12-lp
CH 2 - Centre: Danley SH-69 or JTR12-lp
CH 3 - Right: Danley SH-50 or JTR T12-lp
CH 4 - Sub1: Danley TH-118 or JTR Captivator
CH 5 - Sub2: Danley TH-118 or JTR Captivator

The 6 x 250 amp would be driving the surrounds:
CH 1 - Rear: Danley SM-100M or JTR Single 8-lp
CH 2 - Rear Danley SM-100M or JTR Single 8-lp
CH 3 - Side: Danley SM-100M or JTR Single 8-lp
CH 4 - Side: Danley SM-100M or JTR Single 8-lp
CH 5 - High: Danley SM-100M or JTR Slant 8-lp
CH 6 - High: Danley SM-100M or JTR Slant 8-lp

Are people here using their W4S amps to drive their subs?

Or would I be better off getting a Pro Amp such as the QSC RMX5050?

If I stick with the W4S amp (1,140 watts @ 4 ohm) I can reach 120 dB with the TH-118's and 103 dB with the Captivator's. These levels (without clipping) would be at the 12 foot first row seating distance. All of the above speakers are 4 ohm except for the 8 ohm surround speakers.

The room size is 17.5" W x 20' D x 7.5' H.

As an aside, are these amps stable at 2 ohm?

Thanks for your input and I'm looking forward to your comments/suggestions.

Cheers!
-- Bill --
Edited by rx-8 - 8/28/12 at 8:42pm

Just the idea of the same amp everywhere would be too fun to pass up if it was me

How are you figuring the db drop for the 12' seating distance? I thought people did -6db/doubling of distance? Wouldn't that still give you 120ish for the Captivator? Just curious ...

Try this to determine amp power.

http://www.crownaudio.com/elect-pwr-req.htm

That one gives the same result as poster, so that's what he used I guess, for 8 ohm. I was figuring for 2 ohm and multiple subs in my head. And I always forget to allow for some headroom

I'd really appreciate it if some could comment on the three questions I asked above - I've highlighted the questions in red for your convenience.

Thanks a bunch!
-- Bill --

Their 250 and 500 watt modules are.

Hello All:

First post to this forum.

Bought pair of SX500s from another owner who ran it for 1 year. These pairs are replacing Sunfire CG II MC 200W amps for home theater. I'm driving this with Onix Ref 3 speakers ( 4 hms/90db)
with a Marantz AV7005 Pre/Pro headend.

I connected them using ONIX Blue RCA interconnects and so far kind of disappointed with the sound. tried with Music and BD ( Avator and so on..) The current Sunfire sounds kind of FULL and tight BASS compared to SX500s and W4S SX500s are sounding kind of dry.

Based on all the reviews here and everywhere else, I'm sure something I'm doing wrong as these Amps are highly rated.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

RX-8, don't run subs off the ICE modules. Get something like the 5050 or one of the fp14000 clones. I have 9 of the 500 watt ice modules and they are indeed stable into 2 ohms but don't hold a candle to a good sub amp for sub duty.

Thanks for the information. My equipment plans have changed since I posted that question. I'm now going with all active speakers so amps are no longer required.

Sometimes it takes a little getting use to a different sound.
More than likely it is the speakers. While IMO class D amps drive "most speakers" better it is still not the best choice
for all speakers. I have read dissapointment with some Revel owners but if you double down on the watts with the W4S
it should make a difference. like SX1000 at 4ohm . I think the Sunfire is 200 @ 8ohm.
D-sonic now sells Revel and also has a 1500/2400 watt amp available. Must be a good reason for that amount of watts.
Basically what I am saying is W4S is for most but not all.
Chris

Thanks. That's a good point on doubling down on wattage.

BTW: I've got some XLR cables and replaced the RCA with them and I observer significant improvement on the overall representation. Never thought for shoerter distances interconnect types make difference. I guess next is power cords :-)

Ram

My review of the mINT in case anyone is interested:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1436318/class-d-integrated-amplifier-shootout-2012

Can anyone comment on the sound between the Mini MC and the MC for HT and music? I'm looking at the 5ch x 250w versions of each.
Edited by gregcss - 10/31/12 at 12:34pm

Just finished swapping out my Anthem MCA50 for a custom built MC(1x500 4x250). The system already has two Wyred 500w mono blocks on the front L/R, with the single 500w channel in the MC going to center.
Speakers are all Paradigm, with Studio 100s and a CC690 up front, Studio 40s on the sides and Studio 20s on rears. Subs are a Sig Servo and a ServoV1. Anthem 50v is the pre/pro.

The MC isn't even broken in, and yet while listening to some 5.1 music, I was ginning ear to ear, punctuated by the occasion 'holy %$@!!!' I knew there was going to be a difference, but I was in no way prepared for this kind of change. The side channel imaging is astounding. I had to check(a few times) to make sure that the rears were actually off. While listening to Allison Krauss's New Favorite SACD, I heard for the first time, the musicians actually handing their instruments. Linkin Park's Re-Animated DVD-A practically whacked me upside the head.

Prior to the MCA, I was running an NAD 975. I thought the change from the NAD to the Anthem was nice, but not terribly dramatic. After putting a pair of SX monoblocks up front, I knew I had to get the MC, and after 6 hours of listening, haven't had ANY regrets or doubts that I made the wrong choice.

I'll be running a bunch of movies over the long weekend to really give it a workout, and will report more later

Well, just an update to my previous post... After a couple movies including How to Train Your Dragon at reference levels(apologies to the neighbors), I can say I love this amp. Effortless and uncolored are the two adjectives I'd have to pick. Even at high levels, this amp just keeps giving, and never sounds strained. My MCA would start to sound harsh at the same levels. Even with the fronts crossed over at 40hz, the system had no problems whatsoever.
If you're looking for an amp, I'd say start the search with the Wyred4Sound amps!

Icepower will be unveiling new Class D modules @ CES in a few weeks, they call it Dual Loop 3 and its supposed to be a major breakthrough in SQ...we will see about that.

Anyway i wonder if W4S got samples modules while it was in development like speaker manufacturers do when drivers are been developed or if they would have to start product development after its released to the public, that is if they are not already working with the same Abletec module D-Sonic now uses in their M2 series.

i will be @ CES in a few weeks and i can't wait to go listen to this new module (they will be playing music with it at the Venetian). A comment from the folks at W4S will be much appreciated unless they've completely abandoned this forum because i haven't seen a post from them in a long time.

Here is a link for more info http://www.icepower.dk/en/news/news?id=51

Thanks for this post and the link...looking forward to your observations @ CES (maybe pics too), as I have been a class D fan since Pio came out with the the SC-09, and I just picked up the SC-68 (Pio's own Class D modules). Just waiting for a decent pre/pro and may make the jump over to w4s so this will be interesting.

Did you get a chance to listen to the new modules?
Any word if W4S is using the new module in any of their amps?

Thanks

Yes I got to listen to the new module, but before I get to that some new found info is necessary.

I went to the Icepower suite and was very disappointed with the news I heard. Basically, their new dual loop 3 (DL3 from now on) will only be used in the new IceTheater 7 module which is based on the work they did on pioneer's Elite's D3 amp...yes you read that right, pioneer's D3 amp they are bragging about is basically a reverse engineered Icepower module, and no that is not what W4S is using in their upcoming 7 channel amp. They are using the old module without DL3.

They will neither make new modules nor add DL3 to the current modules(ASP, ASX2 etc) that will stay in production. This is mainly because they just finished the engineering spec on a new version of a very important chip on their module ( I think its the comparator chip or something) so there is still a lot of work to be done to build a new module around it and the DL3 including some other features they want to add so we are looking at a year before they have new modules to show (not necessarily ready to buy). So at CES next year they will have something to show or announce or else "We will be in trouble". Me thinks they are in trouble now because other new and uprising class D companies like Abletec (former IcePower employees and especially Hypex is sonically cleaning their clock and stealing their customers already!

Bitterly disappointed after I was looking forward to hearing all new modules from them, i reluctantly accepted the offer to sit and listen to the new Icetheater7 with DL3, the one new module they did have. They had a setup of just the OEM module they built paired with B&W 802 Diamond (which is also what they have in their labs). They were only using 2 channels of the 7(150 wpc), so it wasn't bi-amped. Not more than 30 seconds after I started listening to Hotel Califonia, my eyes widen and I sat up to pay more attention because of the quality of what I was hearing. It sounded fantastic! The high frequency which has always been my beef with class D was great, even better that the best implementation of the ASX2 module you will find anywhere April music's Stello Integrated. Also the midrange and bass, everything just sounded wonderful, and i'm no B&W fan either but today I was!

To be very clear this beats pioneer's D3 amp to which i'm listening to as i type this and like very much (except for the HF) and I also got confirmation from the reps that the ASX2 is inferior to this sonically. An uplifting and hopeful end to a visit that had been very disappointing to me. But having to wait over a year for new modules is still kind of tough for me to forgive, I mean what were they doing all these years? Playing hookie instead of designing new modules?. I guess i'll stick with my receiver until they decide to get their **** together.

That is too bad no other modules will be getting DL3, sounds like it is a really nice upgrade.
Did they say who will be using the new DL3 IceTheater 7 in an amp?
Thanks

No, they didn't give me that info probably because i didn't ask. However, it is conceivable that W4S may result to using this module at some point since Icepower will not continue to make the old module they are using now, so depending on how well it sells, when they run out of stock they will have to either stop making the amp or start using this module which is actually just a drop in replacement so no additional work is needed.

Hi All, I'm new to the wyred thread and was hoping to get some insight. I have just built my first set of SEOS speakers, Sentinels to be exact, and they have opened the flood gates for me with high efficiency, dynamic designs. I am now working with the designer of these to build some Mega Speakers. My new setup will consist of surrounds that contain the SEOS24" waveguide with BMS 4594 coax CD and a single AE speakers TD15M each. The L/C/R will have the same waveguide, same compression driver and 4 TD15M's. The surrounds will be passive and require between 500-600w each. The Mains will have passives for the coax and be active to the woofers. They will require between 800 and 1200w to the woofer sections and 250w or so to the horn sections. This may be way more info than is needed, but I just want to make the design details clear. I have looked, and outside of custom, there are a few combos of wyred amps that will fit the bill perfectly power wise. I have not used these of any other ice power amps prior. I am currently running pro amps to the Sentinels and am happy with their sound. I would just continue to do this with the new speakers as well, but am thinking about effeciency. With 20KW in pro amps to the subs, the Projector setup, and all this, there will be some serious power draw happening in my theater. If the wyred amps can provide the same type of experience, I am all for getting a bit more efficiency. I am from the school of folks that think most well desinged amps, performing within their specs/capabilities, will sound the same. All that in mind, I have heard a few folks say that the ice amps have a different sound. Any thoughts are much appreciated!