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Official Wyred 4 Sound Amp Thread - Page 51

post #1501 of 1583
I recently compared a pair of Wyred SX500 monoblocks to a Crown XTi-1002. Both amps were level matched. As for sound differences between the two, they were minimal. The bass from the Crown was slightly looser or exaggerated compared to the Wyred. Also, the Wyred had better spacial information(better defined images). The biggest downfall of the Crown was fan noise! I've since upgraded the fan to a Noctua unit, but it can still be heard.
post #1502 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post

I recently compared a pair of Wyred SX500 monoblocks to a Crown XTi-1002. Both amps were level matched. As for sound differences between the two, they were minimal. The bass from the Crown was slightly looser or exaggerated compared to the Wyred. Also, the Wyred had better spacial information(better defined images). The biggest downfall of the Crown was fan noise! I've since upgraded the fan to a Noctua unit, but it can still be heard.


Thanks for th insight Face! I have read so many good things about them. The only concern I had was the consistent claim that they may be a bit "dry' sounding. I am going to contact them today to talk a bit about some custom configurations.
post #1503 of 1583
Compared to a poorly designed or "coloured" amp, yes. smile.gif

I use their amps in three of my rigs and have no desire to change.
post #1504 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post

Compared to a poorly designed or "coloured" amp, yes. smile.gif

I use their amps in three of my rigs and have no desire to change.

Nice. The biggest thing for me at this point is their cost. To get all the channels and all the power I need for the HT, it would take $8k in wyred amps vs $6k in LG class TD amps. I have been researching all day and am finding that the Lab amps should be nearly as efficinet, have remote on/off and save me $$. My intitial though was that the wyred would save money over time, but if the labs are 80% efficient, they may not...??
post #1505 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChopShop1 View Post

Nice. The biggest thing for me at this point is their cost. To get all the channels and all the power I need for the HT, it would take $8k in wyred amps vs $6k in LG class TD amps. I have been researching all day and am finding that the Lab amps should be nearly as efficinet, have remote on/off and save me $$. My intitial though was that the wyred would save money over time, but if the labs are 80% efficient, they may not...??

Wyred4Sound now has an amp based on Icepower's AVR amp module, the ICEtheater7. Looks interesting: compact, ~60W/7ch/8Ω (yes, they claim 150W/ch, but based on the module's spec sheet let's agree to call it a 60W/ch amp, OK?). and not very expensive at $1600.



The only other thing with that much power at that size is the Crown CT8150/Lexicon DD-8. It has one more channel, but is about $900 more expensive.
post #1506 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Looks interesting: compact, ~60W/7ch/8Ω (yes, they claim 150W/ch, but based on the module's spec sheet let's agree to call it a 60W/ch amp, OK?). and not very expensive at $1600.

I just ordered one of these and hadn't seen the 60W/ch at 20Hz-20Khz number (they don't post it on the Wyred4Sound website). That's a real bummer. I just ordered two pairs of relatively inefficient surrounds (84db@1W) and 150W/ch computes to well within my volume needs but 60W/ch is cutting it a bit close. I figured that class D amps are generally multi-mono designs and so number of channels driven had little effect on power output. I'm wondering if I should cancel my order and go with the Mini MC 7 Channel instead.
post #1507 of 1583
Call or email them and ask for the official power ratings, they don't use stock modules, everything is tweaked to some extent.
post #1508 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post

Call or email them and ask for the official power ratings, they don't use stock modules, everything is tweaked to some extent.

I sent them an e-mail but, looking at the B&O specs from DS-21, the power supply is integrated into the amp so, I think it's unlikely that the W4S specs differ significantly. I'm actually kind of angry about this. The web page is extremely misleading in quoting a 2 channel power output for a 7 channel amp. That's the kind of garbage I expect from AVR vendors and, in fact, the numbers at 7 channels driven are approximately the same (a gentle way of saying worse) than what you can get from a $500 AVR.
post #1509 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsdms View Post

I just ordered one of these and hadn't seen the 60W/ch at 20Hz-20Khz number (they don't post it on the Wyred4Sound website). That's a real bummer. I just ordered two pairs of relatively inefficient surrounds (84db@1W) and 150W/ch computes to well within my volume needs but 60W/ch is cutting it a bit close. I figured that class D amps are generally multi-mono designs and so number of channels driven had little effect on power output. I'm wondering if I should cancel my order and go with the Mini MC 7 Channel instead.

I wouldn't worry about it unless you plan to use the amp to drive subwoofers. "All channels driven" is probably an unrealistic spec, and it's a reasonable design compromise to use a common power supply that can burst power into channels that need it, while not being able to drive them all continuously at that level. Music comes in bursts, after all, not continuous sine waves. And it doesn't come in continuous sine waves from seven directions at once!

That said, the W4S amp is B&O's AVR amp module in a nice case, and their spec sheet is going to trick people who don't read between the lines. (As a general rule, if a power amp isn't explicitly given an "all channels driven," its power-supply is not designed to provide the claimed power into every channel at the same time for very long.)

Still, Icepower's newer modules are very good. I briefly had an amp with the smallest one, and it sounded just like a good solid state amp of that power level. Does the Mini MC7 use the newest (ASX2) amp modules? If not, the MC 7150 is honestly probably the better amp. Earlier Icepower modules suffered from "tube sound" syndrome, because their output impedance was high. The new ones correct for it, similar to the Hypex amps that are IMO the gold standard for Class D up to now. The newer ones also seem to hiss than the old ones, though I've not used a W4S amp with the older modules and I base my comment on experience with a couple Rotel models.

Also, every marketer claims to "tweak" something. Doesn't make it true, of course. Chances are the "tweaks" are really just B&O's recommended input buffer circuit.
Edited by DS-21 - 4/2/13 at 10:11pm
post #1510 of 1583
Besides an input buffer, other items on the board were changed on the ST-500 and STI-500 I owned.
post #1511 of 1583
After some back and forth e-mails with EJ, I think the MC 7150 probably would have worked out for my needs but, I opted for the Mini MC 7 just to be really sure. EJ was super helpful and, though the MC7 is a bit more than I wanted to spend, I think it should be a pretty fantastic amp.
post #1512 of 1583
I think I'm in the market for a Mini MC-3 if anyone is selling. I'll be using it for my center and rears. I'll also have an ST-250 for sale.

Is there an audible difference between the ST-250 and Mini MC-3?
post #1513 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsdms View Post

After some back and forth e-mails with EJ, I think the MC 7150 probably would have worked out for my needs but, I opted for the Mini MC 7 just to be really sure. EJ was super helpful and, though the MC7 is a bit more than I wanted to spend, I think it should be a pretty fantastic amp.

I've had a mini7 running 24/7 for a year or so now, no hiccups.
post #1514 of 1583
I have a pair of SX1000 mono blocks, just wondering if or what they can be modified to improve even more?
post #1515 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobdabuilda View Post

I have a pair of SX1000 mono blocks, just wondering if or what they can be modified to improve even more?
Call Wally at Underwood, they are modding Peachtree and W4S stuff, ask about your SX1000s.
post #1516 of 1583
I would inquire with W4S first.
post #1517 of 1583
Thanks guys
post #1518 of 1583
Hi guys,

I have a MC3X500 which has stopped outputting anything from one of the channels. It was working 2 days ago, then last night when I went to use the system there was no output from one channel.

I've verified its the amp by swapping cables around, swapping known good pre-amp outs to it, etc. (A chain of connections that works on one channel of the amp output, when swapped to the faulty one, no longer works. The chain that led to the faulty one, when swapped to a different channel of the amp, works fine, with the same cables & everything)

Are there any troubleshooting steps I can do myself before I service it?


I believe I am still under warranty--I purchased on 12-18-2012, but didn't file anything to register it... not sure though, as their website says purchased after 01-01-2013 & you have to register, but also says that if transferred is valid for up to 1 year from purchase... (I am the original owner, but its still within 1 year so hopefully they would provide warranty service?)
Edited by Morik - 8/11/13 at 9:23pm
post #1519 of 1583
Hi all.

I've been reading alot about the STP-SE preamp and I'm seriously considering buying one. I have a minor concern about the ability of it to drive low impedance loads.

My power amplifiers are 2x 1000ASP and 2x 500ASP stock ICEpower modules, i.e. no modified input buffer, which have an input impedance of approximately 8k Ohm.

I have read some comments on other forums that the sound of STP-SE "gets thinner" when having to drive a power amplifier of 8k Ohm or less.

Have any of you experienced this phenomenon? Or can EJ clarify it?

It would be very nasty to order the STP-SE and find out that it is a bad match for the power amplifiers! smile.gif
Edited by TheIncubus - 8/17/13 at 8:14am
post #1520 of 1583
Sorry...lots of questions...

Is it possible to use the W4S DAC2 DSDse as a pre with the ST-500?

Would this be a decent upgrade over a HK 3490?

Would this combo pair well with Dynaudio Focus 160 speakers?

Has anyone compared W4S sound vs. say the NAIM DAC V1 + NAIM XS2 combo?
post #1521 of 1583
The DAC-2 is a fine preamp for the ST-500. I would expect a substantial increase in dynamics and headroom over a HK 3490.
post #1522 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Face2 View Post

The DAC-2 is a fine preamp for the ST-500. I would expect a substantial increase in dynamics and headroom over a HK 3490.

I read the review of the ST-500 over at 6moons and it seems positive. Almost tube-like. Has anyone auditioned this amp in person?
post #1523 of 1583
I'm not sure I would call it tube like, but will say it's neutral and not offensive at all. I've owned the ST-500, STI-500, SX-500, and Mini MC-5.
post #1524 of 1583
I had the ST500 but I found the 3rd gen modules in the mAmp much better. Well worth topping up for the new 3rd gen monos

The DAC2 I had was a decent preamp but it is highly limited if you have analog components.
post #1525 of 1583
Just pulled the trigger on a Mini MC-7. Clint at Wyred4Sound was very helpful.

Any folks using Pioneer Elite AVR's as the "Pre-Amp?"

Also - - any shared experiences with Paradigm speakers is greatly appreciated.

Current setup is:

FL/FR - Paradigm Studio 60's, V.2
Center - Paradigm CC-690, V.5
Side Surrounds - Paradigm ADP-590, V.5
Rear Back Surrounds - Paradigm MilleniaOne 2.0
Sub - Velodyne 810

OPPO-103
Pioneer Elite SC-65 AVR

Interconnects from Morrow Audio. Speaker wire/cabling from Blue Jeans Cable.

Thx - Rico
post #1526 of 1583
I recently acquired a STP-SE pre-amp. Its a great preamp, very neutral sounding and great transparency. All the reviews I have read so far is exactly what my experience is with it. However, I didn't like the little remote control. Anyone knows what's the IR remote code ? I searched the net but couldn't find any useful info.
Edited by debjit_g - 8/23/13 at 2:03pm
post #1527 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Just pulled the trigger on a Mini MC-7. Clint at Wyred4Sound was very helpful.

Any folks using Pioneer Elite AVR's as the "Pre-Amp?"

Also - - any shared experiences with Paradigm speakers is greatly appreciated.

Current setup is:

FL/FR - Paradigm Studio 60's, V.2
Center - Paradigm CC-690, V.5
Side Surrounds - Paradigm ADP-590, V.5
Rear Back Surrounds - Paradigm MilleniaOne 2.0
Sub - Velodyne 810

OPPO-103
Pioneer Elite SC-65 AVR

Interconnects from Morrow Audio. Speaker wire/cabling from Blue Jeans Cable.

Thx - Rico

******UPDATE******

Just installed the MMC-7. Much thanks to Clint at Wyred4Sound for kindly answering all my questions throughout this entire process.

First impressions:

1. Separation, separation, separation. Did I mention separation? By that, I mean that the MMC-7 compared to my Pioneer SC65 (130 wpc - also "Class D Amplifier") is night and day. Much more separation and detail out of each channel - - especially with SACD Multichannel music. I'm listening and at a low level - - Steely Dan's Multichannel SACD release "Gaucho." Just like McLuvin said, the imaging, clarity and detail are fabulous.

I can tell the difference in the clarity of each speaker in my 7.1 system - - just standing by it, you can hear the difference. Zero crosstalk.

2. Power, power, power. 90 wpc increase might not sound like much but with each channel having its own dedicated power - - the difference is much cleaner sound with great bass punch. Mids and highs are also excellent and my MMC-7 is just breaking in. This is an "out off the box" into the rack experience. I'm a very happy camper right now and I can't wait play a Bluray movie tomorrrow night.

Lastly - - I can confirm that the MMC-7 does get warm but not much different than my Pioneer SC65 AVR - - which is now my "Pre-Amp" and I've turned off the "Amp" function in the Pioneer.

The MMC-7 is a real winner so far - - sleek, lightweight (compared to Class A/B amps.) and with plenty of power, clarity and detail. Superb imaging and channel separation.
post #1528 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Just pulled the trigger on a Mini MC-7. Clint at Wyred4Sound was very helpful.

Any folks using Pioneer Elite AVR's as the "Pre-Amp?"



Thx - Rico
I've been using my SC-07 with a pair of W4S SX -500s driving my Salk Songtower RTs .smile.gif
post #1529 of 1583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricoflashback View Post

Just pulled the trigger on a Mini MC-7. Clint at Wyred4Sound was very helpful.

Any folks using Pioneer Elite AVR's as the "Pre-Amp?"


Thx - Rico

I am using a SC35 in pre out form with a pair of Bel Canto Ref 500m's very very similar to wyred(but I think better tongue.gif).

be prepared for a very measurable increase in resolution, spatial qualities and separation when listening to 2 channel/music.

I was blown away at the difference between the sound qualities of the bel canto and the internal SC35 amps... best upgrade I have made to my system.
post #1530 of 1583
Does anyone use Oppo bdp-105 with Wyred4Sound STP-SE preamp ? I am currently using this setup along with st-500 and finding that the volume gain is very high; for example, the volume level at stp-se at 12-15 is pretty loud for normal listening level and sounds bright and the bass is less than expected. I use xlr between oppo->stp-se->st-500. the oppo bdp-105 has been set to fixed volume (level is 100). I normally play the Oppo over serviio dlna server (for high res flac) but also tried copying those to a usb drive and playing directly from it without any luck. anybody has any insight into it ?
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