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NHT power5 amp, Givin it some lovin - Page 15

post #421 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Well the power5 came last night. It was doubled boxed and the outer box was in fine condition. The inner(NHT) box was fairly mangled, at least one corner of it where it looked like it was dragged or scuffed? The amp itself was unharmed fortunately, and the inner foam looked unharmed. I emailed Bruce to let him know. I hooked it up (only to my front 3 ) and compared it back and forth with my proceed amp3. Based on only a limited time for auditioning, the two amps sound very similar and very uncolored/detailed at low to moderate volumes. When cranked to reference volume(not sure the exact number , need to pull out the spl meter), the proceed would get a bit sloppy with the bass and I heard some slight distortion. With the NHT I left the volume the same and heard nothing like this and I was able to go even louder and still nothing! This is where the ICE power proves itself. I will post more impressions after this weekend.

It has now become overwhelmingly evident, thats there's something different and special about the Icepower Power5 and its ability to crank up the volume and best it seems all of the Class A/B amps reviewed in this thread ...Im wondering why exactly this is ... anyone care to venture a guess why this may be ?
post #422 of 584
^^^ Exceptionally low noise floor?

Edit - not to even mention, very little to virtually no danger of overheating? That HAS to be a factor.
post #423 of 584
My humming amp update,

Well, I took most everyones advice here and began pulling cables and unplugging components. I first started with all power cords of the sources, nothing changed.
Then I began disconecting the Directv feeds, nothing changed. I finished up by disconnecting all cables into my receiver, nothing again. I even brought the NHT into my theater room and it stills hums? I know its not the amp though because every amp in my system has always had that faint 60hz hum.

The final option was the cheater plug(2 prong), guess what it worked no humming! I know this cannot be used to fix the issue but what can at this point?

It seems as if my home wiring is the culprit(its a new house too).

Thoughts?
post #424 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randybes View Post

I use these and they work great--

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/produ...tor?sku=150452

Randy,

The cheater 2 prong plug worked and eliminated the hum. Will the humX do the same and what use do you use it on?

Thanks,
Brandon
post #425 of 584
"there's something different and special about the Icepower Power5 and its ability to crank up the volume and best it seems all of the Class A/B amps reviewed in this thread ...Im wondering why exactly this is ... anyone care to venture a guess why this may be ?"

more actual power = less/no clipping
post #426 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by merrymaid520 View Post

My humming amp update,

Well, I took most everyones advice here and began pulling cables and unplugging components. I first started with all power cords of the sources, nothing changed.
Then I began disconecting the Directv feeds, nothing changed. I finished up by disconnecting all cables into my receiver, nothing again. I even brought the NHT into my theater room and it stills hums? I know its not the amp though because every amp in my system has always had that faint 60hz hum.

The final option was the cheater plug(2 prong), guess what it worked no humming! I know this cannot be used to fix the issue but what can at this point?

It seems as if my home wiring is the culprit(its a new house too).

Thoughts?

Go and get an outlet tester at Home Depot and check ALL of your outlets. One reversed wired outlet causes problems throughout your house. You just plug it in and the lights come on and tells you if it is OK, NO GROUND, or REVERSE Wired (white& black reversed).
post #427 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

"there's something different and special about the Icepower Power5 and its ability to crank up the volume and best it seems all of the Class A/B amps reviewed in this thread ...Im wondering why exactly this is ... anyone care to venture a guess why this may be ?"

more actual power = less/no clipping

I would guess more efficiency > more available clean power > more power means less distortion/no clipping.
post #428 of 584
I might have to pick that tester up. I also read abit more on ground loop hums and it seems wall light dimmers cause this issue and I have them everywhere.

Another odd thing, as I plug & unplug various components, the volume of the hum changes temporarily then gets back to normal?
post #429 of 584
Has anyone had a negative experience with the sound of the power5? Besides faulty units, or humming sounds. Does anyone just not really like the sound of this amp?
post #430 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave98svt View Post

Has anyone had a negative experience with the sound of the power5? Besides faulty units, or humming sounds. Does anyone just not really like the sound of this amp?


I do not think so.

I have not done my review yet, but so far, it has been a big improvement over my 5x85 HK amp. Noise is non-existant, it loves to be cranked and IMO, it sounds better the closer it gets to reference levels.
post #431 of 584
I don't think there were any posts that indicate the buyer returned because he/she didn't like the sound but I think there was one who talked about returning because the difference was minimal compared to what he/she already had, if I recall. Though there are some who do not like the sound of a D amp versus an AB or even an H amp, not the NHT Power5 in particular.
post #432 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave98svt View Post

Has anyone had a negative experience with the sound of the power5? Besides faulty units, or humming sounds. Does anyone just not really like the sound of this amp?

I have yet to read one single negative post above it's sound quality. The power5 is as good as my Proceed amp at low to moderate volume. At high volume the Power5 just keep going like the Energizer bunny without strain or distortion. I had compared the Proceed to the Rotel 1075, Parasound 2205a, Acurus 200 and the only amp that was close to the SQ of the Proceed was the Parasound. Bass was better on the Parasound though.
The Proceed is the better match for the Revel Performas. After listening to the Polk LSi9 and Power5 for the past few days, I am thinking of letting the Revels performas go. The only thing that is holding me in the mixed reviews I read on the matching center Lsic. The Mirage OM-C2 was, to my surprise, a very close match for the Polks. Even when I run pink noise, they sound pretty darn close. Next on my list is the NHT M6s and some room acoustic treatment.
post #433 of 584
Today I hooked up my power 5 for the first time - I am using it to power the center and surrounds of my HT; I have a Krell integrated amp that I use for the fronts in pass through mode.

When I first hooked it up I got a lot of hum, but that was not totally unexpected as I have a known issue with my cable TV causing a ground loop. With a filter in the cable line the hum went away immediately.

My conclusion is that the NHT Power 5 is quite susceptible to any ground loop issues, but once solved it is fine.

I do have a question that somebody here might be able to answer. Since my reciever has an unusual barrel connector for the 12V trigger I am going to have to build a custom cable. What I need to know where on the miniplug the Power 5 expects the +12V, ground and so on so I can wire this thing up correctly.
post #434 of 584
The tip of the 1/8" plug is +12V, the base is ground.

Ground loops in an a/v system aren't the fault of any one piece of gear. They are the necessary result of the NEC (National Electric Code) and the use of unbalanced audio connections between equipment.
post #435 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

The tip of the 1/8" plug is +12V, the base is ground.

Ground loops in an a/v system aren't the fault of any one piece of gear. They are the necessary result of the NEC (National Electric Code) and the use of unbalanced audio connections between equipment.

Thanks for the quick info on the connector.

I think in this case it is more likely the ground loop is the result of a cable installer not following IEC recommendations.

Now that I have been running this all day I've very happy with how cool it operates. This what I was hoping for from the class D design. The Krell runs MUCH warmer.
post #436 of 584
I got mine and measured the idle current, w/o anything connected, as .36 A, giving 41 W dissipation.
post #437 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by mather View Post

Though there are some who do not like the sound of a D amp versus an AB or even an H amp, not the NHT Power5 in particular.


What i guess I meant was does anyone not like Icepower amps, and what is it they don't like compared to AB or H amps? From the little research ive done, it sounds icepower is icepower, regardless of the brand, as long as they are the same icepower modules.
post #438 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:


What i guess I meant was does anyone not like Icepower amps, and what is it they don't like compared to AB or H amps? From the little research ive done, it sounds icepower is icepower, regardless of the brand, as long as they are the same icepower modules.

The only thing I could see ( and it has happened on this thread in fact ) is that somebody may prefer an amp that changes the sound characteristics of their system. For example, some of those Carver amps are made to sound more like a tube amp by purposely adding a resistor to the output, thereby "warming" up the sound.
My personal preference is too have the amp add nothing to the sound and as such the Power5 hits a homerun and I think in general Icepower amps are straight out neutral ...So, if somebody is looking to change the sound tonality of their system, they wont find it in Icepower ( just my opinion )
post #439 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I got mine and measured the idle current, w/o anything connected, as .36 A, giving 41 W dissipation.

The standby draw is about 25W.

That adds up to consuming 219 kWh per year just to have it "off".

At $0.18 per kWh thats about $40/year or $400 in 10 years.

No experience with other power amps and I'm guessing that's a pretty good figure in comparison. Even so, my power5 is going on a triggered power strip to bring off power close to zero.
post #440 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave98svt View Post

Has anyone had a negative experience with the sound of the power5? Besides faulty units, or humming sounds. Does anyone just not really like the sound of this amp?

Sounds like you're having second thoughts. Still having a problem with "harshness"?
post #441 of 584
The Power5 is a neutral amp. If you mate it with a neutral speaker the sound may be bright or harsh if you are not used to neutral sound. My newly acquired Revel + Power5 give such a neutral presentation everything sounds on the brighter side. Great combo for retrieving every detail on each and every track. But that kind of sound/presentation is a matter of preference and it takes some time to get used to if you are used to a warmer, tube like sound. Coming from Mirage speaker the neutrality of the Revels is a total change for me from what I am used to. I love the Polk Lsi9 or Mirage and power5 combo but not the Revel and Power5 combo. I am in the cable don't make a difference camp, but I wanted to tamp the brightness of the Revels so much, after tons of reading I ordered a Cardas Quadlink speaker cable which supposedly gives a tube like warm sound. If that does not help the Revels then I have one tough decision to make...keep the Revels or keep the Power5?
post #442 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

The Power5 is a neutral amp. If you mate it with a neutral speaker the sound may be bright or harsh if you are not used to neutral sound. My newly acquired Revel + Power5 give such a neutral presentation everything sounds on the brighter side. Great combo for retrieving every detail on each and every track. But that kind of sound/presentation is a matter of preference and it takes some time to get used to if you are used to a warmer, tube like sound. Coming from Mirage speaker the neutrality of the Revels is a total change for me from what I am used to. I love the Polk Lsi9 or Mirage and power5 combo but not the Revel and Power5 combo. I am in the cable don't make a difference camp, but I wanted to tamp the brightness of the Revels so much, after tons of reading I ordered a Cardas Quadlink speaker cable which supposedly gives a tube like warm sound. If that does not help the Revels then I have one tough decision to make...keep the Revels or keep the Power5?

When I went speaker shopping (ending up with Revels) I heard many speakers that I thought were brighter than the Revels. Focal and Paradigm Sigs were definite examples. There is also the factoid out there the lead designer of Revel's also did the designs for Mirage for several years - I think that many Mirage models have a sonic footprint quite similar to Revel. The neutrality of the Revel line is a great virtue in my book. It means it will sound good in more applications than any other possible choice.

As far as speaker cables and amps - if I thought my speaker cables or solid state amp was affecting the spectral distribution of the sound in any way I would be very upset. To me that would be grounds for complaining to the manufacturer and returning the equipment for a refund.

I think the reasonable ways to affect the sound spectral distribution are room treatment and equalization. In that order. Ultimately I think that a warm speaker is another word for a defective speaker, and eventually its owner will realize that he is listening to something that is not capable of revealing the truth of the recording and become unhappy.

The fact that the Power5 is described as 'neutral' is to me is the same as saying it is a high quality component. So far I have been impressed by the build quality, efficiency, performance and the flat out bargain price of this unit. If it continue to operate like this I will have in my home for a very long time.
post #443 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

When I went speaker shopping (ending up with Revels) I heard many speakers that I thought were brighter than the Revels. Focal and Paradigm Sigs were definite examples. There is also the factoid out there the lead designer of Revel's also did the designs for Mirage for several years - I think that many Mirage models have a sonic footprint quite similar to Revel. The neutrality of the Revel line is a great virtue in my book. It means it will sound good in more applications than any other possible choice.

As far as speaker cables and amps - if I thought my speaker cables or solid state amp was affecting the spectral distribution of the sound in any way I would be very upset. To me that would be grounds for complaining to the manufacturer and returning the equipment for a refund.

I think the reasonable ways to affect the sound spectral distribution are room treatment and equalization. In that order. Ultimately I think that a warm speaker is another word for a defective speaker, and eventually its owner will realize that he is listening to something that is not capable of revealing the truth of the recording and become unhappy.

The fact that the Power5 is described as 'neutral' is to me is the same as saying it is a high quality component. So far I have been impressed by the build quality, efficiency, performance and the flat out bargain price of this unit. If it continue to operate like this I will have in my home for a very long time.

ehlarson,

One thing I can tell you for sure is that Mirage OM series and Revel DO NOT have a sound similar signature. Mirage is a warm speaker with a laid back presentation that I can listen to for hours without any listener fatigue regardless of what kind of amp I use or what material I listen too. Unfortunately I can not say the same for the Revels. Some materials actually become irritating to listen to because they become too bright and harsh. I know many people go for the neutral sound but unless everything you listen too are pristine recordings, being neutral is too much of a good thing. This is my own personal take though, it doesn't mean that other won't like this quality. I love the Power5+Mirage and Power5+Polk Lsi9 combo. I like tube like warmth in every thing I listen to. As it stands now, Revel might not be my cup of coffee. I only have a few hours on them, so I will see if any "burn-in" going to help. I have been told that Revel recommends at least 200 hours of "burn-in".
post #444 of 584
I've had the amp for about a week now and am totally happy about everything, SQ, power, and dynamics. Please allow me to familiarize all with my situation.

I like most others thought that to play at higher volumes and still maintain SQ, one would need a separate power amp. I thought all I needed was just more amp power. After a little research I learned I was wrong. I learned electricity and it off shoots(electronics) has there own laws of physics, i.e.; 1+1 does not equal 2, but more like 1+10=2. So with this I started researching the classic - amp vs. receiver argument.It all came down to and was mentioned by another poster about a separate amp will have clean power without any "sacrifices". Looking for an affordable amp, as with many things these Internet direct companies offer the greatest bang for the buck. I found out about the Outlaw amps and read the reviews and was all set to get their 7 x 200 -7700 amp.

After upgrading my priorities, like speakers and putting money aside for the amp, I was ready to purchase. So, as usual back to AVS for current events and research, I find out about digital amps and eventually the NHT in particular. I really didn't want to be that guy who saves his money for a particular item and right at the moment of pulling the trigger I get side tracked. I put a post in this thread for a comparison of the two, but I guess nobody ever had these two amps at the same time to compare. What I really wanted to know was the difference between AB/solid state and D/Digital amps. There have been many post since differing the two and I decided to just test it myself. I figured for my first venture into separate amp and knowing 1+1 does not equal 2 maybe it would be best to go with the one with lowest initial buy in and The NHT is about 60 lbs less, much better to ship back I thought. But, the one single thing that swayed it to the NHT is I have a NHT Classic 3 system all around, I figured who better to go to when I want to turbo charge the 3 than NHT!

Well...Happy camper here. I found out first hand what everybody is raving and posting about. Cleaner, neutral, and truly dynamic when cranked!!! The thing I love the most about my classic 3 system is how neutral and accurate it is and the power5 just takes it up another level or two!!! I say two because the 3's are also known for the wide dispersion and big sound stage and it even bigger and better NOW! I also like to state the receiver I had and am now using as a pre/pro is the Denon 2807 and in it self wasn't too shabby.

I also like to mention I too had the ground loop hum and after a few days of going crazy trying to narrow down the problem, it came down to a faulty outlet where the wires were not fully tightened making the ground hit or miss. After fixing that it is now totally silent and I'm totally happy!!!
post #445 of 584
^^^Nice writeup, keepItReal. You are echoing what have been said about this amp repeatedly.
post #446 of 584
I was comparing my proceed against the power5 all morning using strictly the Dire Straits SACD. The obvious difference is definetly how loud w/o distortion the amps can go. The NHT wins in this category. In low volume listening, this is a draw. At moderate listening levels, this is where I struggle to pick a clear winner. At times I prefered the "warmth" and less shrill sound of the proceed over the power5 but is this because I am not used to a more neutral sound? Secondly, I got mixed reviews of the real dynamic parts of certain tracks where either the proceed may have reached its limit or the power5 did not portray them as well. It seemed like the proceed had more dynamic range at times where the volume changed from moderate to real loud. The power5 during the same section did not fluctuate as much, if that makes sense.

Also, the bass presentation from the proceed is very tight, maybe a touch better than the NHT? Tough call there. Trying to A/B the amps by quickly swapping interconnects and banana plugs and playing the track again was tough. In the end, I struggled to find any differences at all.
My father in-law was over yesterday doing the same thing with me and he prefered the proceed by just a narrow margin due to its warmth. Remind you, he is a long time McIntosh seperates owner.

I really cannot decide what to do. I like the fact that the NHT has a warranty and 2 extra channels for my surrounds, but I like some things about the proceed too. Its heritage alone being part of the levinson group is cool.

For those two of you that also have proceed amps, what convinced you that what you were hearing from the NHT was neutrality and not shrillness?

Decisions......decisions......
post #447 of 584
The last few posts (especially the last part of the last post) are sort of asking what I wondered. How do i know that the power5 is nuetral and the carver, or other amps, are "warming" up the sound? To me, the power5 sounds slightly better or equal in every way to my carver, except high end harshness. I wondered how everyone is sure that its the recording? For me, almost every cd ive tried has had this effect? The thing im wondering about my situation, is that I had to get my marantz 8002 fixed under warranty, and used a new onkyo 805 while my receiver was being repaired. I spent some time listening to the onkyo, then recieved my power5 very shortly after switching back to the marantz. I wonder if maybe its the marantz that sounds more harsh then the onkyo, and not an issue of my amp? Comparibly, the marantz is 1 or 2 steps up in the model line from the onkyo, but maybe i just don't like the sound marantz has? All of my equipment, including speakers, are fairly new, so its hard to tell. As of right now, I am not happy with the high end harshness, and don't think its the my anthony gallo 3.1's
post #448 of 584
Dave,

I dont know which it is either. Can it be the clarity of the power5 that we are not used too or is it a bit harsh on the top end?

Now I am demoing all the tracks on the Santana Supernatural CD. Good demo stuff

Anyone else have more thoughts?
post #449 of 584
Thread Starter 
Quote:


How do i know that the power5 is nuetral and the carver, or other amps, are "warming" up the sound? To me, the power5 sounds slightly better or equal in every way to my carver, except high end harshness.

Dave,
I dont know whether you just didnt see my posts about the Carver or just refusing to believe it ... Did you do any research on the Carver TFM series amp ? ( about the added resistor in the signal path ) .. The Carver TFM is DESIGNED to alter the sound for a tube like "warm" presentation, if you like the Carver, then dont sweat it and just return the Power5. I promise I wont mention it again however

As to if the NHT power5 is a bit shrill or harsh ... I guess thats in the ears of the beholder, but I can say mated with my NHT M6's there isnt even a hint or harshness/shrillness on the highend. I actually find almost the complete opposite. My ears are very sensitive and I absoluetly hate anything that is close to shrill or harsh, My ears will actually start to buzz. When Something sounds harsh to me, I always am looking to turn DOWN the sound, With the Power5 Im always wanting to turn it UP ...the louder the sound the better, this is a sure fire sign to me that the Power5 isnt harsh and on top of that, doesnt get harsh even when pushing the volume up. Of course, My room is fully sound treated (especially at the reflection points ) and my pre-pro is a Harman Kardon 745 ...So as always, system integration is the key imo.
post #450 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohny View Post

Dave,
I dont know whether you just didnt see my posts about the Carver or just refusing to believe it ... Did you do any research on the Carver TFM series amp ? ( about the added resistor in the signal path ) .. The Carver TFM is DESIGNED to alter the sound for a tube like "warm" presentation, if you like the Carver, then dont sweat it and just return the Power5. I promise I wont mention it again however

As to if the NHT power5 is a bit shrill or harsh ... I guess thats in the ears of the beholder, but I can say mated with my NHT M6's there isnt even a hint or harshness/shrillness on the highend. I actually find almost the complete opposite. My ears are very sensitive and I absoluetly hate anything that is close to shrill or harsh, My ears will actually start to buzz. When Something sounds harsh to me, I always am looking to turn DOWN the sound, With the Power5 Im always wanting to turn it UP ...the louder the sound the better, this is a sure fire sign to me that the Power5 isnt harsh and on top of that, doesnt get harsh even when pushing the volume up. Of course, My room is fully sound treated (especially at the reflection points ) and my pre-pro is a Harman Kardon 745 ...So as always, system integration is the key imo.

I have read your posts. When I listened to my speakers in the store before purchasing them, I heard them with all NAD stuff and they didnt have the harshness either. They also had another amp just for reference, and that amp didnt have it either. Maybe it just isnt the best pairing with my speakers, or like i said, maybe it is my pre/pro. But im not the only one that has noticed this, and gallo reference 3.1's are supposed to sound very "warm". I am not trying to put the power5 down, I like everything about it except the high end harshness, (which may or may not be the amp)and it is a very good price for a 5 channel amp with the amount of power it has. I think I may either demo another amp (maybe an anthem a2), or demo another pre/pro (integra 9.8), to see where the problem lies before making my decision. I also have a terrible room for sound...it is long and norrow with many openings on one side wall leading to another large room, and no room treatments....
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