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NHT power5 amp, Givin it some lovin - Page 19

post #541 of 584
The point was, the power supply choice was to fit within the design and cost parameters for this amp - it's all IcePower and it sold for about $1300-1400 MSRP. What the Power2 can do is plenty for most people.

Also note that the differences at 8 ohms aren't so much - 250W vs 200W - since one 500ASP can supply most of the current that two modules need. So it may be an unusual choice, but one that makes some sense in the real world.

FYI, for those who missed it. It's worth reading all Jack's posts in this thread if you're interested in these amps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

Corey,

The ICE Power amplifier modules in the Power2 are rated at 500W into 4ohms by B&O. They will come close to this at certain frequencies and THD with enough power supply. The ICE Power supply in the Power2 isn't designed to supply enough power to drive both channels at 4ohms to full voltage swing. I don't remeber exactly what it will do, but I'm sure it is over 300W/channel with both channels driven at the same time. With only one channel driven at a time, the output into 4ohms is essentially 500W.

One measurement suggested it getting to 600W on one channel - one person was talking about using two Power2s as monoblocks.
post #542 of 584
" The limiting factor is the power supply, so you don't get 500 WPC.
My point exactly. I find this to be "unusual" for a design."

? Most amps are limited by the PS; ones that are not "double down", giving 2X power at half the load impedance.
post #543 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

? Most amps are limited by the PS; ones that are not "double down", giving 2X power at half the load impedance.

That is in so many ways wrong bro. If that was the case my AVR that is 50W x 7 = 350W from the PS would get 100 x 2 = 200W at 4 Ohm. It only gets 65.

There is more to an amp than a PS. Why would you use a huge amp with a small power supply? I'm not even sure what your motive is to argue this. Why would you want an amp with this design? Please, tell me what the positives are. Please don't say cost because the cost of a 500ASP module is way more than a high quality power supply cost.

I wish the DIY crowd would chime in.
post #544 of 584
Anyone looking for a Power5 send me a PM.

Bill
post #545 of 584
Bill.
Something wrong with your Power5 and Onkyo PR-SC885 combo?
Not satisfied with it? I have the exact same combo but it is not set up yet.
post #546 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samaritano View Post

Bill.
Something wrong with your Power5 and Onkyo PR-SC885 combo?
Not satisfied with it? I have the exact same combo but it is not set up yet.

No problems the amp is fine and sounds great. I bought a Boston Acoustics A7200 amp which I owned before. I need 7 channels now and I always liked the SQ of the A7200. You will enjoy the 885/Power5 combo very much, have no fears.

Bill
post #547 of 584
thinking of selling my NHT power5 and Pioneer Elite vsx-92thx and trading up to the ice powered SC-07. Would this be considered an upgrade?
post #548 of 584
The amplifier used in the SC-07 has about 1/4 of the power of the Power5.
post #549 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

The amplifier used in the SC-07 has about 1/4 of the power of the Power5.

thanks. that's the information I was looking for. I think I need to stick to my power5 to drive my 4ohm polk lsi's....
post #550 of 584
When I power up or down the Power5 I get a slight pop almost like a static noise. Is this common and are other Power5 owners experiencing this as well?

Bill
post #551 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

When I power up or down the Power5 I get a slight pop almost like a static noise. Is this common and are other Power5 owners experiencing this as well?

Bill

I get a very very small pop, not enough to bother me though. The Anthem Statement A2 I had before didn't have the pop, but it took much longer to come on, and I can hear a loud click from a relay inside.
post #552 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

When I power up or down the Power5 I get a slight pop almost like a static noise. Is this common and are other Power5 owners experiencing this as well?

Bill

Are you talking about through the speakers or the amp itself? If the amp, then yes, I hear what is essentially a sound that resembles a relay being thrown open or closed inside the unit. It's not that much different than what I hear with the AVR I am currently using as a pre-amp (Denon 3806). It's pretty normal, IME, and the only amps that don't have something like this are the ones that are engineered specifically to ramp their power slowly (e.g., the prior poster's experience with Anthem, my won experience with a Bryston 5ch amp).

Bill
post #553 of 584
I have been having a problem with my Power5 lately. One of the channels, when pushed hard, will slowly start fading out. Its not an even fade, its very hard to explain. after a minute or two of playing loud music or movies there is no bass, barely any midrange coming from one speaker. It also sounds like it distorts slightly sometimes. None of the green indicator lights on the front display of the amp ever change. If I turn my reciever of and on again, it sounds normal for another minute or 2. It also doesnt happen all the time. It could be my reciever, im just not sure why pushing the amp hard would effect the reciever thats only being used as a pre/pro. I am pretty sure its not my speakers. I am pretty sure my last pair did it once or twice before I sold them. Could it be a bad interconnect? I tried wiggling the connectors when it happens, but it didnt seem to make a difference. Anyone else have a similiar situation or know what could be wrong?

I am using a marantz sr-8002 pre/pro, power5 amp, Salk HT2 TL speakers.
post #554 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave98svt View Post

I have been having a problem with my Power5 lately. One of the channels, when pushed hard, will slowly start fading out. Its not an even fade, its very hard to explain. after a minute or two of playing loud music or movies there is no bass, barely any midrange coming from one speaker. It also sounds like it distorts slightly sometimes. None of the green indicator lights on the front display of the amp ever change. If I turn my reciever of and on again, it sounds normal for another minute or 2. It also doesnt happen all the time. It could be my reciever, im just not sure why pushing the amp hard would effect the reciever thats only being used as a pre/pro. I am pretty sure its not my speakers. I am pretty sure my last pair did it once or twice before I sold them. Could it be a bad interconnect? I tried wiggling the connectors when it happens, but it didnt seem to make a difference. Anyone else have a similiar situation or know what could be wrong?

I am using a marantz sr-8002 pre/pro, power5 amp, Salk HT2 TL speakers.

Dave,

Is the issue always in one specific channel? If it is you could try swapping channels on the amp. If it is your R Front that is the problem and it is connected to amp channel #1, swap the R Front to channel #2 (interconnect and speaker cable) and move the speaker that is on channel #2 to channel #1. If the issue stays with the #1 channel even though it is not the R Front anymore it would be the amp. If it follows along to the #2 channel it would indicate an issue with the 8002.

I no longer have the Power5 but if it is the amp you could send it to NHT for service. I had a dead channel on my Power5 and sent it out to NHT and they repaired at no cost (just shipping to them) as it was under warranty. I believe the warranty is 3 years and is a transferable warranty.

If the issue is with the amp and it is under warranty it would be better than if it is the 8002. You can ship the amp for repair and then use the amps in the 8002 till you get the amp back. I was using an Onkyo 805 as a prepro at the time and it was fine as I shipped the amp off and was still able to use my system.

Very nice speakers by the way.

Bill
post #555 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I no longer have the Power5...


If I remember right, the NHT Power5 is a decent class D amp and not all that old, right?

I remember that you liked that the Power5 was less weight and used less electricity than a "comparable" class A/B or A amp.

So what do you now use?

1. A different class D amp?

2. A class A/B or A amp?

If it's not another class D amp, then why did you switch back to A A/B?

All ears.
post #556 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

If I remember right, the NHT Power5 is a decent class D amp and not all that old, right?

I remember that you liked that the Power5 was less weight and used less electricity than a "comparable" class A/B or A amp.

So what do you now use?

1. A different class D amp?

2. A class A/B or A amp?

If it's not another class D amp, then why did you switch back to A A/B?

All ears.

I now have a Boston Acoustics A7200 which is a clone of the Sherwood Newcastle A-965. Back a few years BA had SN manfacture the A7200 and matching AVP7 (P-965 clone). One of the first amps I bought several years ago was the A7200 which I sold when I went on my quest of trying different amps. Here are links for the A-965 and A7200

http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_a965.html
http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=26578

Amps I have had in my system:

Emotiva LPA-1
BA A7200
Sherbourn 72100-A
Parasound A52
NHT Power5
Bel Canto S300 (for front R&L speakers w/PRe3)

After all the amp changes with of course different prepros/receivers I found that I was not hearing a significant SQ difference from amp to amp. I am not saying all amps sound the same as that is a debate that I wish not to get into. But in my room and with my ears (non-golden) the biggest differences I have seen are speaker changes above all.

So when I saw an excellent deal on the A7200 from a member here I jumped on it. So I was able to sell the Power5 for close to what I paid for it and the A7200 was half of the sale price of the Power5.The Power5 has a higher rated power than the A7200 (200w vs.100w @ 8ohms) but in my small room the additional power is not a big issue. Also from what I have read the power ratings for the A7200/A-965 are very conservative from SN/BA. When I swapped the amps out I reran Audyssey and I could honestly not detect any obvious SQ differences.

The A7200 is heavier and runs a little warmer than the Power5 but I feel it is just as good an amp as the Power5. The A7200 is a 7 channel amp which gives me two additional channels for a Zone 2 if needed. I had thought about the Wyred 4 Sound Mini MC but the cost is 4X what I paid for the A7200. So unless I find a killer deal on another amp that I have considered the A7200 wil be in my system for the long haul

Bill
post #557 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I now have a Boston Acoustics A7200 which is a clone of the Sherwood Newcastle A-965. Back a few years BA had SN manfacture the A7200 and matching AVP7 (P-965 clone). One of the first amps I bought several years ago was the A7200 which I sold when I went on my quest of trying different amps. Here are links for the A-965 and A7200

http://www.sherwoodusa.com/prod_a965.html
http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=26578

Amps I have had in my system:

Emotiva LPA-1
BA A7200
Sherbourn 72100-A
Parasound A52
NHT Power5
Bel Canto S300 (for front R&L speakers w/PRe3)

After all the amp changes with of course different prepros/receivers I found that I was not hearing a significant SQ difference from amp to amp. I am not saying all amps sound the same as that is a debate that I wish not to get into. But in my room and with my ears (non-golden) the biggest differences I have seen are speaker changes above all.

So when I saw an excellent deal on the A7200 from a member here I jumped on it. So I was able to sell the Power5 for close to what I paid for it and the A7200 was half of the sale price of the Power5.The Power5 has a higher rated power than the A7200 (200w vs.100w @ 8ohms) but in my small room the additional power is not a big issue. Also from what I have read the power ratings for the A7200/A-965 are very conservative from SN/BA. When I swapped the amps out I reran Audyssey and I could honestly not detect any obvious SQ differences.

The A7200 is heavier and runs a little warmer than the Power5 but I feel it is just as good an amp as the Power5. The A7200 is a 7 channel amp which gives me two additional channels for a Zone 2 if needed. I had thought about the Wyred 4 Sound Mini MC but the cost is 4X what I paid for the A7200. So unless I find a killer deal on another amp that I have considered the A7200 wil be in my system for the long haul

Bill


Bill, thank you for the detailed response.

FWIW, while I continue to have some interest in trying a class D amp, I've so far managed to avoid it.

FWIW#2, my 1st SS amp purchase was a used Sherwood Newcastle A-965. At 70lbs it's a bit over my self imposed weight limit of 65lbs. But it runs surprisingly cool for a decent A/B amp.

Still have it but not presently using it. Guess I'll have to plug it in one more time before I sell it.

Cheers
post #558 of 584
Not saying that it's not a good deal, but I just want to say that those power5s are factory refurbished. It still comes with a 1 yr factory warranty.
post #559 of 584
Question. I have a Power5 and a Power2 that I'm going to be using as part of a 7.2 system. Can I use the Power2 for my main speakers and the Power5 for center, surrounds and back surrounds duty? I'm asking because the Power5 mentions in their manual which channel to use for a given speaker.

Thanks
post #560 of 584
samaritano, I think you want to give it more thought. THere may be a way to set it up so that the load on the L, R and C are spread around more. Having a L R or C on a module along with a less demanding surround channel would seem to give you more headroom. Putting both the L and R on the Power2 would put most of your load on the one power supply in that amp.

Jack Hidley's posts in this thread are well worth reading for anyone interested in these amps. Here's what he said on the first page or two:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

The Power5 uses two 500ASP modules and three 500A modules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

The channels are 1 = L, 2 = LS, 3 = C, 4 = RS, 5 = R on the Power5.

but he also wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

[On the Power5] The DC supplies from both of the 500ASPs are tied together through some isolation diodes. Then all three of the 500As are tied to this rail. The bottom line is the power supply rail is shared by all five amplifier channels equally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

The Power2 uses one 500ASP and TWO 500As. The amplifier channel on the 500ASP does nothing. This way both channels have absolutely identical behavior since they use exactly the same amplifier module.

Anyway, I don't have time to think through the details of the module and power supply setup, but you should get the idea from that. YOu can click on the little symbol next to Jack's name to be linked back to that point in the discussion, and see the first page or so for what the module setup in each amp is.

Or course, you'd rarely hit the limits of the amps I imagine.
post #561 of 584
I have the Power 5 and I like it.

I'm looking for "Power 5 or 7" with XLR inputs too, any suggestions?
post #562 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac.Concierge View Post

I have the Power 5 and I like it.

I'm looking for "Power 5 or 7" with XLR inputs too, any suggestions?

If you need 7 channels you could look for a Power 2 amp but of course neither the Power 5 or the Power 2 have XLR inputs. You could look at the 7 CH amps from Wyred 4 Sound or D-sonic to get XLR inputs. But you will spend quite a bit more for those over the cost of the NHT.

I had a Power 5 for awhile and they are great amps. Unless you have long cable runs or noise issues with the Power 5 I do not see the need for XLR inputs. I have had a number of different amps in my system some with XLR inputs and I do find the XLR connector gives a more secure connection IMO. But as far as SQ differences I did not hear any at all. No noise issues as my amp is right under my prepro so the cables are no more than 3'.

Bill
post #563 of 584
Like a previous post, I too had an issue where the no 1 amplifier would go dead on me. After turning the amp off it would work again. This went on intermittantly for 4 months til i finally figured out it wasn't a cable, connection or the preamp. Sent it into NHT and they replaced the number 1 amp and all is well. The fact that another person experienced the exact same problem leads me to believe this amp may have had some bad internals. Has antone else experienced losing signal from one of the channels ? This was an intermittant problem for about four months til I was able to narrow it down. It doesn't help when it would start working again after a shutdown sometimes.
post #564 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Misencik View Post

Like a previous post, I too had an issue where the no 1 amplifier would go dead on me. After turning the amp off it would work again. This went on intermittantly for 4 months til i finally figured out it wasn't a cable, connection or the preamp. Sent it into NHT and they replaced the number 1 amp and all is well. The fact that another person experienced the exact same problem leads me to believe this amp may have had some bad internals. Has antone else experienced losing signal from one of the channels ? This was an intermittant problem for about four months til I was able to narrow it down. It doesn't help when it would start working again after a shutdown sometimes.

This is a thread from the past.

Bill,

If you look back a few posts you will see that I also had an issue with my Power5. My issue was a little different as the channel just went dead. I do not recall which channel it was though. I ran across the invoice from NHT showing the repair done to the amp. If I still have the invoice I will check it to see which channel was repaired and post that information.

The person I sold the Power5 to contacted me after receiving the amp stating that there was an issue with the amp. I can't recall what the issue was but he owned an electronic repair business and tried to diagnose the problem himself. I told him the amp was under warranty and I would pay for the shipping to CA to get the amp repaired. He declined and wanted his money back but I refused as I had no idea how much "repair" work he did on the amp. I said he wanted me to have the amp repaired (shipped back to me) then I could ship it back to him and if he was happy with the amp he would keep it. This all after I was supposed to refund his money. Needless to say I declined his request and never heard from him again.

Bill
post #565 of 584
Does anyone have a procedure for service / troubleshooting one of these? I have a Power 5 that has a bad channel (no output). I have some hobbyist level skills and enthusiast level gear (scope, DMM, function generator etc.).

I'd hate to let this go to the garage. It is too nice.
post #566 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

Does anyone have a procedure for service / troubleshooting one of these? I have a Power 5 that has a bad channel (no output). I have some hobbyist level skills and enthusiast level gear (scope, DMM, function generator etc.).

I'd hate to let this go to the garage. It is too nice.

Contact NHT. They can probably talk you through troubleshooting, as well as supply replacement boards, as needed. You'll want to have a DMM, at a minimum, and a healthy respect for current...
post #567 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

Does anyone have a procedure for service / troubleshooting one of these? I have a Power 5 that has a bad channel (no output). I have some hobbyist level skills and enthusiast level gear (scope, DMM, function generator etc.).

I'd hate to let this go to the garage. It is too nice.

I just found my repair invoice for when NHT repaired my Power5. The #3 channel was dead and they repaired it under warranty. Below is the address and telephone number from the invoice. The repair was done in 2008 so the address or phone number might not be current.

NHT Audio, LLC
6400 Goodyear Road
Benicia, CA 94510
800-648-9993

Bill
post #568 of 584
Well my 'repair' from a couple of months ago did not fix my problem. The amp is now out of warranty and I don't feel like dropping $70 to send it back to California. The invoice said they checked wiring and replaced the number one amp but it still cuts out just like it did before. I imagine a relay or some type of output divise is poorly connected or going bad but they don't have the expertise to solve the issue. Very sad that my amp is now a 4 channel amp. Since a few of us have had issue, I'm sure it affects a good number of them, hence they are out of that business.
post #569 of 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Misencik View Post

Well my 'repair' from a couple of months ago did not fix my problem. The amp is now out of warranty and I don't feel like dropping $70 to send it back to California. The invoice said they checked wiring and replaced the number one amp but it still cuts out just like it did before. I imagine a relay or some type of output divise is poorly connected or going bad but they don't have the expertise to solve the issue. Very sad that my amp is now a 4 channel amp. Since a few of us have had issue, I'm sure it affects a good number of them, hence they are out of that business.

I am starting to think that way too. It seems a lot of people are having issues with channels cutting out so doing a repair could turn out to be an exercise that will yield only short term benefits.

It's sad, the amp is nice otherwise.
post #570 of 584
My 3 channels on my power5 started cutting out (going into protection mode) at reasonably high volumes. It will come back on after lowering volume. I am powering Salk HT2-TL's which are 4 ohms.

I called NHT and they told me that the power5 should not be used to power 4 ohm speakers, and I was lucky it has worked this long (I have been using it with these speakers for almost 4 years) He said that the amp should be fine, but I should sell it or use 8 ohm speakers.

I seem to remember researching this amp and reading on this forum that the power5 should put out around 500wpc at 4 ohms. I also remember people telling me it would be a good match with my speakers.

What do you make of this?
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