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Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 52

post #1531 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Hi rnrgagne,
I want to run the AVP/POA and my JVC RS1 off it.So if I get a power surge it protects my system.

there are plenty of good surge protectors and power conditioners on the market but I would not use this UPS for this application: especially not for the power amp

I use the UPS like you linked for set top boxes (e.g. DirecTV DVR) so they do not reboot in case of a dip in voltage but it puts out a chopped up square wave and would not be suitable for the application in my opinion (there are more expensive sine wave UPS units but they are expensive and probably not necessary)
post #1532 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

there are plenty of good surge protectors and power conditioners on the market but I would not use this UPS for this application: especially not for the power amp

I use the UPS like you linked for set top boxes (e.g. DirecTV DVR) so they do not reboot in case of a dip in voltage but it puts out a chopped up square wave and would not be suitable for the application in my opinion (there are more expensive sine wave UPS units but they are expensive and probably not necessary)

Thankyou mate thats what i needed to know.
post #1533 of 25955
If you're only worried about power surges then it's not worth it to get a UPS for all your gear. You definitely don't want to plug the POA into a UPS. The general consensus is to get a "whole house" surge protector installed at the main A/C panel input.
If you don't have ground faults, you should plug the POA into it's own circuit, and the rest of your gear into another one. I use a UPS for my PJ and Sat PVR for obvious reasons, and for convenience I plug my players in there too. I use an inexpensive PureAV one - it does the trick and if there's a power outage it'll run my PJ long enough for me to shut it down. If I don't have the PJ on, it'll run the PVR for quite a while so I won't lose the show I've set it to record.
post #1534 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

there are plenty of good surge protectors and power conditioners on the market but I would not use this UPS for this application: especially not for the power amp

I use the UPS like you linked for set top boxes (e.g. DirecTV DVR) so they do not reboot in case of a dip in voltage but it puts out a chopped up square wave and would not be suitable for the application in my opinion (there are more expensive sine wave UPS units but they are expensive and probably not necessary)

Whats your thoughts on the Belkin power conditoners? Those Pure AV 40 I think its called.
post #1535 of 25955
Im thinking of running the AVP and POA just on that. The rest on my other Power conditioner.
post #1536 of 25955
post #1537 of 25955
How good are they? i can pick one up tomorrow or are they not recommended.
post #1538 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Whats your thoughts on the Belkin power conditoners? Those Pure AV 40 I think its called.

no experience with that unit but they look nice

I have used the Furman Reference series for many years with good results: I run everything through it except power amps and UPS supplies

Everything including power amp is fed through a Monster AVS2000 which has a servo mechanical variac that maintains constant voltage
post #1539 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

no experience with that unit but they look nice

I have used the Furman Reference series for many years with good results: I run everything through it except power amps and UPS supplies

Everything including power amp is fed through a Monster AVS2000 which has a servo mechanical variac that maintains constant voltage

If I run my power amp and pre amp soley through that you think that will be the best way?

BTW thanks for the replies and help!
post #1540 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

If I run my power amp and pre amp soley through that you think that will be the best way?

looks like it should do it: let us know
post #1541 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

If I run my power amp and pre amp soley through that you think that will be the best way?

BTW thanks for the replies and help!

Contact Denon's technical support and ask them.
I'd be willing to bet they say plug the POA directly into the wall. I wouldn't be surprised if they say the same for the AVP too - it's got more transformers in there than some amps. You can definitely use the PureAV for all the ancillary stuff like your PJ.
post #1542 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Im thinking of running the AVP and POA just on that. The rest on my other Power conditioner.

Virtually every recommendation I've seen says to run power amps directly from the circuit without conditioning. They do have internal protection from surges, as do most components. The exception might be when you happen to have a very unreliable or unstable power grid. Unfortunately, a good fix in that situation could get pretty expensive.
post #1543 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Virtually every recommendation I've seen says to run power amps directly from the circuit without conditioning. They do have internal protection from surges, as do most components. The exception might be when you happen to have a very unreliable or unstable power grid. Unfortunately, a good fix in that situation could get pretty expensive.

Well today the power went off on off on off on, unstable and I rather protect the pre/pro as much as I can with it stuffing up.Extra protection doesn't hurt.
post #1544 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Well today the power went off on off on off on, unstable and I rather protect the pre/pro as much as I can with it stuffing up.Extra protection doesn't hurt.

Yeah, that's bad. Does that happen a lot there? I'd probably be more concerned about protecting the AVP and its microprocessors than the POA.
post #1545 of 25955
i'm using this http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/400.htm
i think its great stuff
post #1546 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by bschaen View Post

i'm using this http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/400.htm
i think its great stuff

Is it a UPS or surge protector?
post #1547 of 25955
post #1548 of 25955
I am using an Equi=Tech wall cabinet system like the attached.

Mark
LL
LL
post #1549 of 25955
Here is what I currently use.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/powerconditioners/1005apc/

Here's a rather humorous review thats definately geared more towards all of us here on AVS of the same unit - http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...achapter82.htm

I have horrible power and the piece of mind that this gives me is worth every cent.
post #1550 of 25955
I might have avp in house next thursday
post #1551 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by stenvik View Post

I might have avp in house next thursday

as a visitor or to stay ? hehe

either way ..enjoy !
post #1552 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

as a visitor or to stay ? hehe

either way ..enjoy !

I have ordered myself avp so it's for personal use
post #1553 of 25955
So now that I've had a couple of weeks to test out the AVP, I thought I'd post my feelings (and concerns).

Overall as a movie system, it's great. Lots of depth, soundstage, gobs of configuration options, Audyssey is really cool. Never heard my system sound anywhere close.

For music, it's a different story altogether. So far, I'm very underwhelmed by the 2-channel performance. I've read a lot of positive reviews on this site, so it is entirely possible that I've screwed up some setup in the AVP, or just as possible that my ears are just wired differently, but in a nutshell the sond is not as refined or smooth as even my 10-year old Denon 3300 used as a preamp.

I've done a lot to change configs. The first thing I did was to switch the audio from HDMI to optical. Though this makes no sense to me, the Optical inputs sound vastly superior to the same audio delivered via HDMI!!! I tried this on both my DVD player and my Apple TV, and in both cases I heard (as did 2 other people in the room) a tremendous improvement when I switched off of HDMI. Could it be that the HDMI devices are doing the D/A conversion and then passing those signals to the AVP whereas the Optical is passing pure digital? Whatever it is, I'm not using the HDMI anymore. Try this, I assure you you'll be blown away.

Anyway, that helped the sound a lot. But in general the sound is still 'thin'. My golden-eared friends agree. Since it used to sound great, and the only thing that's changed is the preamp, this has me concerned. I know people have had great results, so I wonder if there's a config trick I should try. I have used Audyssey on and off, direct on and off, etc. and it's pretty consistent.

One thing I note is that the Sub out does not work with the Optical input from the Apple TV. It says it's on, but no sound is coming out. This could be contributing to the thin sound. But even with the sub on my DVD player it's not great.

My setup is the AVP through Tara cables to an Outlaw 5x150 to tara bi-wire cables to B&W 804n speakers. The amp's not great, but it used to sound really good with the old pre. I'm going out the unbalanced outputs, could this make a difference? Maybe the AVP is so revealing that the old amp's limitations are being exploited? Is this wishful thinking?

Would really appreciate advice - I'm on the edge of returning/selling the AVP. For $7k it should sound like liquid gold, and instead it sounds like an inexpensive piece of Japanese AV gear. Help? Thoughts?
post #1554 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeejayzee View Post

For music, it's a different story altogether. So far, I'm very underwhelmed by the 2-channel performance. I've read a lot of positive reviews on this site, so it is entirely possible that I've screwed up some setup in the AVP, or just as possible that my ears are just wired differently, but in a nutshell the sond is not as refined or smooth as even my 10-year old Denon 3300 used as a preamp.

I've done a lot to change configs. The first thing I did was to switch the audio from HDMI to optical. Though this makes no sense to me, the Optical inputs sound vastly superior to the same audio delivered via HDMI!!! I tried this on both my DVD player and my Apple TV, and in both cases I heard (as did 2 other people in the room) a tremendous improvement when I switched off of HDMI. Could it be that the HDMI devices are doing the D/A conversion and then passing those signals to the AVP whereas the Optical is passing pure digital? Whatever it is, I'm not using the HDMI anymore. Try this, I assure you you'll be blown away.

Anyway, that helped the sound a lot. But in general the sound is still 'thin'. My golden-eared friends agree. Since it used to sound great, and the only thing that's changed is the preamp, this has me concerned. I know people have had great results, so I wonder if there's a config trick I should try. I have used Audyssey on and off, direct on and off, etc. and it's pretty consistent.

One thing I note is that the Sub out does not work with the Optical input from the Apple TV. It says it's on, but no sound is coming out. This could be contributing to the thin sound. But even with the sub on my DVD player it's not great.

My setup is the AVP through Tara cables to an Outlaw 5x150 to tara bi-wire cables to B&W 804n speakers. The amp's not great, but it used to sound really good with the old pre. I'm going out the unbalanced outputs, could this make a difference? Maybe the AVP is so revealing that the old amp's limitations are being exploited? Is this wishful thinking?

Would really appreciate advice - I'm on the edge of returning/selling the AVP. For $7k it should sound like liquid gold, and instead it sounds like an inexpensive piece of Japanese AV gear. Help? Thoughts?

Just curious- which 2-channel sources were you feeding via HDMI?
post #1555 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeejayzee View Post

So now that I've had a couple of weeks to test out the AVP, I thought I'd post my feelings (and concerns).

Overall as a movie system, it's great. Lots of depth, soundstage, gobs of configuration options, Audyssey is really cool. Never heard my system sound anywhere close.

For music, it's a different story altogether. So far, I'm very underwhelmed by the 2-channel performance. I've read a lot of positive reviews on this site, so it is entirely possible that I've screwed up some setup in the AVP, or just as possible that my ears are just wired differently, but in a nutshell the sond is not as refined or smooth as even my 10-year old Denon 3300 used as a preamp.

I've done a lot to change configs. The first thing I did was to switch the audio from HDMI to optical. Though this makes no sense to me, the Optical inputs sound vastly superior to the same audio delivered via HDMI!!! I tried this on both my DVD player and my Apple TV, and in both cases I heard (as did 2 other peope in the room) a tremendous improvement when I switched off of HDMI. Could it be that the HDMI devices are doing the D/A conversion and then passing thise signals to the AVP. whereas the Optical is passing pure digital? Whatever it is, I'm not using the HDMI anymore. Try this, I assure you you'll be blown away.

Anyway, that helped the sound a lot. But in general the sound is still 'thin'. My golden-eared friends agree. Since it used to sound great, and the only thing that's changed is the preamp, this has me concerned. I know people have had great results, so I wonder if there's a config trick I should try. I have used Audyssey on and off, direct on and off, etc. and it's pretty consistent.

One thing I note is that the Sub out does not work with the Optical input from the Apple TV. It says it's on, but no sound is coming out. This could be contributing to the thin sound. But even with the sub on my DVD player it's not great.

My setup is the AVP through Tara cables to an Outlaw 5x150 to tara bi-wire cables to B&W 804n speakers. The amp's not great, but it used to sound really good with the old pre. Maybe the AVP is so revealing that the old amp's limitations are being exploited? Is this wishful thinking?

Would really appreciate advice - I'm on the edge of returning/selling the AVP. For $7k it should sound like liquid gold, and instead it sounds like an inexpensive piece of Japanese AV gear. Help? Thoughts?

I would try without audyssey, additionally that you say the sub is not getting signal for some reason could contribute to the "thin sound" so would explore and fault find that a bit more, could be just a matter of xover setting/speaker size. the amp you are using will most definitely contribute a lot to the overall sound. infact I believe the amp speaker interface is probably the predominant items that determine system charecter. the pre will contribute for sure but in a lot smaller amount in my experience unless it is a very coloured sounding piece. which has not been my experience with the denon, have infact found it pretty clean, detailed and neutral and quite sophisticated actually, but certainly not warm and mushy at another extreme if that is what your looking for ?

the pre and pwr amp matching is something many undrestimate I think too. could be a mismatch sonically here in this case. additionally the outlaw is definitely a budget piece so upgrades there probably worth exploring regardless I would think. With your B&w the classe amps certainly worth checking out or the POA as used by others sucessfully here I would say..

the 2ch aspect is a puzzle ? I know people who have compared the denon to $4k(aussie) dedicated 2ch pre and could find nothing much in it. and on the other hand another friend who has compared a $10k(aussie) 2ch sim audio moon pre to it and found the moon to be a step above. the engineering I have seen in the denon on the 2ch side certainly indicates its in a different league in design and build to most other av pre-pros that I know off. Could be something more to explore. some questions to answer, are you using audyssey here as well, what source are you using, how have you got it hooked up, what source material are you using. aditionally the outlaw though probably an adequate amp, I would think could do a lot better 2ch wise if that something your chasing.

dont really understand your comments re coax being better than hdmi. in my experience one of the biggest benefits I've found of these new gen hdmi equipped pre's is the move to hdmi allowing high bitrate hd audio plus the allowing the move away from using analog audio from hi-def players. I would most definitely think somethign strange going on here.

I would in the first instance consult with your dealer you purchased the item, outline your concerns and get him to assist to get them resolved. I've foudn the AVP a wonderfull piece so far, so well worth chasing I think, but in the end for your own reasons if it turns out not for you. so be it, get something more suitable to your needs and prefernces
post #1556 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

the pre and pwr amp matching is something many undrestimate I think too. could be a mismatch sonically here in this case. additionally the outlaw is definitely a budget piece so upgrades there probably worth exploring regardless I would think.

Many Outlaw users seem to love them, and the fact that he gets good sound in certain situations (movie sources, for example), and with his previous setup, would suggest it's something else. Blaming the amp sounds a little like a bad dealer tactic.

Quote:


dont really understand your comments re coax being better than hdmi. in my experience one of the biggest benefits I've found of these new gen hdmi equipped pre's is the move to hdmi allowing high bitrate hd audio plus the allowing the move away from using analog audio from hi-def players. I would most definitely think somethign strange going on here.

He didn't say anything about coax or analog, nor was he saying it's better- he was clearly discussing the results he is getting with his AVP. Your comments here don't really apply. Optical and HDMI (and coax) are all digital.

zeejayzee- I would start to be concerned whether there is something wrong in some of the HDMI circuitry. But I would probably do a complete reset and start over, one component at a time, save Audyssey for the end, and see if you get different results.
post #1557 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeejayzee View Post

So now that I've had a couple of weeks to test out the AVP, I thought I'd post my feelings (and concerns).

Overall as a movie system, it's great. Lots of depth, soundstage, gobs of configuration options, Audyssey is really cool. Never heard my system sound anywhere close.

For music, it's a different story altogether. So far, I'm very underwhelmed by the 2-channel performance. I've read a lot of positive reviews on this site, so it is entirely possible that I've screwed up some setup in the AVP, or just as possible that my ears are just wired differently, but in a nutshell the sond is not as refined or smooth as even my 10-year old Denon 3300 used as a preamp.

I've done a lot to change configs. The first thing I did was to switch the audio from HDMI to optical. Though this makes no sense to me, the Optical inputs sound vastly superior to the same audio delivered via HDMI!!! I tried this on both my DVD player and my Apple TV, and in both cases I heard (as did 2 other people in the room) a tremendous improvement when I switched off of HDMI. Could it be that the HDMI devices are doing the D/A conversion and then passing those signals to the AVP whereas the Optical is passing pure digital? Whatever it is, I'm not using the HDMI anymore. Try this, I assure you you'll be blown away.

Anyway, that helped the sound a lot. But in general the sound is still 'thin'. My golden-eared friends agree. Since it used to sound great, and the only thing that's changed is the preamp, this has me concerned. I know people have had great results, so I wonder if there's a config trick I should try. I have used Audyssey on and off, direct on and off, etc. and it's pretty consistent.

One thing I note is that the Sub out does not work with the Optical input from the Apple TV. It says it's on, but no sound is coming out. This could be contributing to the thin sound. But even with the sub on my DVD player it's not great.

My setup is the AVP through Tara cables to an Outlaw 5x150 to tara bi-wire cables to B&W 804n speakers. The amp's not great, but it used to sound really good with the old pre. I'm going out the unbalanced outputs, could this make a difference? Maybe the AVP is so revealing that the old amp's limitations are being exploited? Is this wishful thinking?

Would really appreciate advice - I'm on the edge of returning/selling the AVP. For $7k it should sound like liquid gold, and instead it sounds like an inexpensive piece of Japanese AV gear. Help? Thoughts?


I don't even use audyssey at all and find the music as well as the HT excel.I guess you might need to sit down and have a good play with it and hopefully reach the sound your after.I guess it's not for everyone, we all have different tastes when it come to what were after in sound.
post #1558 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleTapper View Post

Here is what I currently use.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/powerconditioners/1005apc/

Here's a rather humorous review thats definately geared more towards all of us here on AVS of the same unit - http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...achapter82.htm

I have horrible power and the piece of mind that this gives me is worth every cent.

Im using this one Thor Powersmart which is used for all my gear but I want to dedicate one to the pre/pro.

http://www.thortechnologies.com.au/d...p?V_DOC_ID=792
post #1559 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Yeah, that's bad. Does that happen a lot there? I'd probably be more concerned about protecting the AVP and its microprocessors than the POA.

It doesn't do that often but Id rather have them protected.Just being over cautious I guess.
post #1560 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I don't even use audyssey at all and find the music as well as the HT excel.I guess you might need to turn audyssey off or try other audyssey settings.

I think you're onto something Franin. Mine sounded great right out of the box, which is why my next step would be to go back to the factory settings and start over.
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