Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 624

Look at what others do - Theta confirmed that they are accepting a limited number of Casablanca IIIs for the HDMI 1.4 upgrade. Theta is not offering any special pricing on upgraded DACs when having the HDMI 1.4 upgrade installed. Perhaps they will at some point in the future.
Casablanca I and II owners are being offered a $5000 trade-in credit toward the cost of a new Casablanca III HD.

Oh for crying out loud, get over it.

There's a lot worse things that can happen in this world... try living in Haiti...

Name me one major brand that has provided hardware upgrade after the fact, and I'll retract. Anthem and Meridian ($20k) don't count because they're not "major", they're boutique brands. Denon is in the ranks of Onkyo, Harman, Sony, Yamaha and the likes. I can't think of any that offered a hardware upgrade unless it was a recall thing.
Heck I recall buying a $5K HK receiver that was outdated in a year...a $5K Yamaha RX-Z9.. done in year when HDMI came out..my NAD M15 about a year too...

I didn't cry and whine about it, or give up on those brands because of it, I just faced the fact it's just the way it is with rapidly changing technology.

In fact Denon, has given us more firmware updates including adding Audyssey DEQ, & DV after the fact than any other mainstream product I've ever had.

Another boutique brand, and in the $15k to $20K range IIRC...I think the upgrade is $3200...

Its probably best you sell your stuff you have seemed to already have made up your mind.

For the rest if nothing comes out in the next few days i think its time to mail denonjeff as a group and ask for a reply.

Daniel.

They also where more than 2 years late in coming out with units/upgrade they talked about....

Daniel.

Hey guys - this is how i see this thing - i own the A1 trio - AVP,POA,DVD - i bought it as a package deal 1 year ago. Very happy so far and i anticipate the same feeling for the future. Just look at the design, the interior architecture, the components and connectors used,etc. Just read all the net reviews ( all positive ). Properly configured and installed, these components rock ! Still you won't find a better looking, better implementation, better design system ! And made 100% in Japan !
I do not care too much for these so-called REQUIRED upgrades - like extra front high channels, HDMI 1.4 - why ? because even a state of the art 5.1 system will bring an unique experience, better than a XX.Y entry level system but built with 2011 gadgets.
Also, HDMI 1.5 is on the way, and other protocols in the work - we will never have our Denons up-to-date with all the gadgets. The technology advances day by day, but what do we need ? Maybe just a solid performer, not a multi functional swiss army knife.
I am thinking about the same solutions discussed here:
- the video feed HDMI 1.4 / 3D will be passed from the 3D dvd player to the projector, and the other HDMI - audio signal to the AVP ( this considering a dual HDMI output dvd player ) - this setup in case i really want 3D ( for now i'm happy with the 2D BD player ) - and read about 3D - most likely in the future there will be some aftermarket kind of convertors like we have now all over - sending HDMI over Cat,over coax,etc - and be used in conjunction with our actual AVP to pass the signal. And, let's be serious now, if you have a state of the art 3D projector, will you use your stand alone processor for 3D or will you rather use the projector itself for "manufacturing" the 3D signal ? And how many 3D dvd titles are available now ? Maybe 15-20, half of them animation, half not-so-good movies - so i find no reason to blame Denon for not satisfying my 3D need
- the sound now - AVP is a state of the art component. 9.3 decoding is more than enough ( i'm using actually a 10.3 setup - the center channel signal is divided in 2 for the POA which has 10 separate amps - using a balanced Y cable - so i have 2 center channel Paradigm Signature speakers ) and produces a huge soundstage. I don't care about adding higher position fronts - i'm using tall Paradigm Signature S8 towers for the front and the sound is more than enough. I think that the surround channels are more important than higher fronts. How many channels do we really need ? Do not fall into the manufactures tactics, they will most likely develop extra channels just to fit somewhere between what's now.
As somebody stated above, we got a lot of software upgrades from Denon.Do not behave like an iphone owner who just found out a new model is coming soon ( which actually is true ) - let's enjoy what we have and let's enjoy the new Star wars BluRay in 2D !

+ 1
Somebody needs a reality check, I think.....

Deck

I don't recall that Jeffrey Talmadge indicated that Denon would announce any upgrade or updates to either the 5308CI or AVP-A1HDCI at CES. I think it was something like that there is something in the works for a 3D work around for the AVP and 5308 and that owners should be patient.

I don't think Jeffrey Talmadge would make such a statement unless it were true. I will be patient and have faith. Denon hasn't released follow up units for the AVP and 5308 and I still believe a solution to the 3D issue is imminent.

As far as the 2010 goes, it's not a flagship or statement piece of gear so that doesn't worry me at all. Hang in there for a little while more. Hopefully the world wont end in the meantime. lol

Well I agree there should be no whining, however:

- denon built and priced a boutique product despite their otherwise broad based market profile. So it contains different expectations

- denon indicated to several members in writing that ces would be the place for some great a1 announcements, so the expectation was set by them.

- anything on avs is meaningless if you want to start contrasting to life's miseries, so no need to pick on this one I don't think...

So hopefully we'll hear more from denonjeff of denon itself soon to clarify what was clearly alluded to a month back...

And this is exactly why Denon and other companies get away with "business as usual" because you, rnrgagne and the others that say "You don't have a right to expect anything", "you got what you paid for" etc etc.

If money was growing on trees or I was some multimillionaire / billionaire, I wouldn't even care. I'd give away gear for free, and pay someone to deliver me new gear every 6-12 months. Reality is that's just not the case probably not for anyone that bought an AVP / 5308...

You can act the way you like about your gear but don't fault the ones that want to have a voice as a consumer and take their purchases seriously. The point I've been trying to make is that 3D PASSTHROUGH is POSSIBLE with a firmware upgrade. HDMI 1.4 with Ethernet and audio return IS NOT.

You can argue all you want that it just isn't possible but there are too many devices with 1.3 chips doing 3D right now, and that isn't even pass through they are actually displaying 3D. Hdmi 1.3 and 1.4 have the same bandwidth, problem is receivers do not know the EDID 3D information in order to handshake and pass through the information.

I'll just wait and see - there will be plenty of aftermarket solutions for this 3D phenomenon which is still young and a lot of developments will be made over the upcoming months. The only way i'd enjoy 3D is watching sport broadcasts.
I'd like Denon to come with an AVP MKII but i won't lose interest in my system if they don't.

Folks - irregardless of the upgrade details, etc. The fact that the company remains silent is simply disrespectful to customers. After this amount of time tell us one way or another - silence is cowardly

I disagree on point one. I think they gave us boutique quality at mainstream flagship prices. I think an AVP can be had for around $5k, compare that in price to a Theta, Meridian, Krell or Halcro and you're not talking apples to apples, and only the first two have done anything in terms of hardware upgrades.
Anthem might be the only comparitor that's valid but you have to remember their basic platform has been around a heck of a lot longer than the AVP. And besides no one has ever dissed the D2 here, it's always been a "flip a coin" sort of response when comparing it to the AVP.

Don't bleed until you're shot on point two, no one seems to know for sure yet.

Fair enough on three.

They're not getting away with business as usual.

That's an overly simplistic way of looking at it.

The last decade technology has changed so rapidly it's staggering. I've been on this planet 53 years now and I've never seen anything like this prior. A retail electronics company like Denon has likely been in a constant state of flux over that time, and who knows, by the time I write this, HDMI 1.9 & 4D with Smell-o-Vision might be ready for prime time... and what Denon planned for an upgrade could be already outdated.
I think we have to take a breath and realize in this maelstrom of activity Denon does not just make the AVP and they have to use most of their resources to keep up or stay ahead of the curve in a ridiculously competitive market.

It`s not like a Theta that waits and waits and lets other do the R&D go through the trials and tribulations then buys OEM parts and and charges an arm and leg for it...

I think it makes sense to be realistic about expectations and to keep those expectations in the proper context.

Well, the AVP/POA is the third reciever/pre-pro I buy from Denon. My first AV amp was a Yamaha DSP A1000 (1990-91 I think), then Denon AVC-A1D (1997 iirc), then Denon AVC-A1SE (2000). And Denon offered an upgrade (a new digital input card) for the AVC-A1SE. I'm not a millionaire, far from it, but I have always traded in/sold my old amps before I buy a new one.
If I wanted all the new features, I would buy a midrange reciever and trade in every year (the way I change my smartphone every year).

I bought the AVP/POA and A1UD in 2009, together with a Pioneer KRP-500A.
I plan to use them for the next 8-10 years.

For me 3D is a fad, (I do not get anything out of 3D, the same as about 10% of the population in the world) .

And you still are wrong about HDMI 1.3 chips that support 3D AND lossless sound. They CAN NOT DO IT!
The PS3 can support 3D (at 1080 interlaced iirc, and NOT 1080 p) via HDMI 1.3, but only with lossy sound.

Deck

I agree with this, the past has shown that either Jeff or others from denon have been following this thread. The upgrade questions have been going on for a year now and most of us expected some news out of ces that now seems unlikely. I don't see how denon at this stage would be hurt by giving us some information about the product line they started 3 years ago. Even if we love our units and as has been pointed out we got what we paid for we are getting to a point where we can't in our right mind advice others to also get the units in 2011. In europe the price of the A1 units has gone up by 25% the last 2 years and without some roadmap i would not buy them today. So they are loosing mindshare among current owners and that can't be smart.

Daniel.

I see it differently, being disrespectful to customers would be promising something and not delivering, disrespectful would be some haphazard solution thrown together in a hurry to keep up with the jones' , disrespectful would be destroying a solid platform and product that they have as a result leaving us something with bugs and treating us as beta testers ...this is what every other top end processor is at right now. is that where we want to be...I doubt denon want it that way. and its not way they have treated us the last 3 years.

the a1 isnt and never will be something on the cutting edge with every latest gizmo bell or whistle, lets keep in mind these will be of different value for many in any regard, with some thinking something is a must have and others wanting something else. Theyre still cutting their teeth on the 4311, anyone can read the issues theyre still sorting out with it. looks like they just sorted out some dd2.0 issue, and yet to see confirmed solution on the "blue rain" etc.

they have indicated that they will use the 43 series as the development mule for these new tech, theyll be a 4312 soon, and that will bring some other stuff we likely not even heard of yet. anyone thinking the a1 series should be cutting edge forget it. It will be rock solid, and with tried and tested stuff. so if want something with all the latest and greatest grab something else.

think ive said before, ces is usually not a denon focus, they mostly seem to work around cedia, there may or may not be something come out of ces, who knows . I prefer to work on that basis rather than build up some expectation.

In the mean time sit back enjoy, bile never helped anyone. but instead enjoy the a1 stuff for what it is. I have been last month or so and yes very much appreciating the avp for what it is like a few others here, will be pretty happy if they announce something. but on the other hand more than happy for denon to also take there time, so whatever they have in mind is well thought out and implemented to maintain the avp and other a1 gear as the glorious pieces they are

Posted in 5308 thread courtesy of AdamWL

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=4056

Quoted from Harman/Kardon's website:

http://www.locale.harmankardon.com/en-US/HDMI14a.html

"harman/kardon releases 3D compatability
harman/kardon is a company that thinks ahead and one of the greatest features we provide on our AVR receivers is the ability to upgrade them when new firmware and technologies become available. To accommodate the excitement of 3D Video, harman/kardon is pleased to announce a two prong strategy to deliver compatibility with the latest advancement in consumer electronics.

Makes me wish I had been a HK customer, they care, and the AVR 7550HD is a 2500 price point.

I don't know much about the latest generation of HK's but when I sold the HK AVR8000 and bought their next flagship sight unseen because of how good the 8000 was I got a seriously rude awakening. For the money the build quality was atrotiuos and it wasn't even remotely close. HK put out at least two generations of units with faulty front panel doors and did nothing about it. I recall their whole line's pricing being reduced by 50% inside of six months when I bought mine because they had so many problems. Hopefully they're trying to re-build their brand.


Had you indeed been an HK customer you would have had a lot more fuel for your complaint hobby.

As a more relevant comparison, ask Lexicon MC-12 HD owners how they feel about how Lexicon (and by extension Harmon, the parent company) have treated them over the last few years... They're still waiting for a pre-pro that can bitstream the HD audio formats, never mind handle 3D. SMR-Forums, which has always been the place to go for Lexicon discussion has become a ghost town in a lot of respects over the last few years - most of the discussions are of the "are we there yet?" (as in when is the MC-12 HD replacement coming?) variety.

While it might not be the ideal solution, my suggestion of using a HDMI 1.4 matrix switch would actually resolve the issue you're looking to address and allow you to preserve the investment you made in the Denon equipment while you wait for them to do something about 3D. I'm still pretty confident that they'll do something, it's just a matter of when.

Doesn't the new oppo bd93 offer 3D? Doesn't that have a seperate video hdmi and audio?

Yes it does, and there is also a Panasonic 3D Blu-ray player available with dual HDMI outputs.

Well that's definitely one way to go if anyone wants 3D. But...

I do understand pentium7 anger because you spent all this money you can at least get some sort of upgrade. Though it was never promised. I personally don't care for 3D but for the people that did want it I can understand.

Just to give people an idea to keep your system updated here is some ways of doing it:

Franin tips to keep your AVP updated:

Buy an Oppo bd 93 or a panasonic( thanks John for pointing that out) for your 3D.

Buy an Svs AS-Eq1 for your subs which will do the X32.

There you go your system is updated.

Personally I paid $10000Au for the AVP so I have to keep it for 10 years. I'm going by the $1000 a year rule.

I'm not jumping to this new technology I'm going to sit it out. My audio in my system is at a stage where I'm very content and so is my pq. Why change it.

I just noticed CES goes to the 9th what date is there guys? Where at the 9th today so you guys if im correct should have one more day left.

Judging by the comments here, I must be the only one who has actually had success passing 3D signals through my AVP. I enjoyed the weekly ESPN college football games this past fall and I have been watching the few IMAX shows provided by Comcast. I am not running separate special HDMI cables or anything. I am even using a TIVO Premiere which is not 3D compatible either. I have one HDMI cable running to my Samsung PN58C8000 plasma directly from my AVP and all my video sources run directly into my AVP. My plasma also happens to be 45 feet of HDMI cable away from my AVP.

Curious that I seem to be the only one able to do this. Or, could it be that no one else has actually tried? I am thinking that everyone assumes that they must have a "3D" ready receiver or pre/pro or one that is 1.4 compatible to pass 3D signals and judging from my success, I don't think that assumption is valid. So to say that it doesn't pass 3D is not correct and even if it didn't (pass 3d) it wouldn't be a deal killer for most.

3D is pretty cool though. The IMAX solar system series was pretty awesome: It seemed you could reach out and touch the planets. But I would agree with the statements others have said here about there not being a lot of content available yet. So, I bet this feature is probably not a priority build feature as much as a marketing feature for the manufacturers at this point. Ergonomically, current 3D does have some issues as noted with the glasses, dark room, etc..

Everyone has their own wishlist of missing features but as a whole, the AVP is still a current feature rich and state of the art unit. I personally would like to see 24 bit FLAC capability but I have worked around this by buying a Logitech Squeezebox Touch and output via coax to the AVP. So I wouldn't (and didn't) reject the AVP because it lacked this. I don't think there is ever going to be the "ideal" product out there for everyone and even if there ever was such a unit, by the time they brought to market, it might still be missing a few new technologies that came out during the product development/manufacturing/distribution timeline.

Is the AVP due for a freshening up to include some new features? Probably. Should they stop manufacturing it because if lacks a few features that "some" people "might" want? No. It is still at the top and the features it is missing don't make it inferior to anything out there.

Thus endeth the sermon.

Well there you go guys. Willyj has done it. So looks like it can be done without upgrading. Im sure your gonna get alot of questions soon Willyj. But thanks for letting everyone know, I wonder if Denon know about it?

Did you get into the Vegimite again?

It's Vegas baby, Vegas. The laws of time cease to exist there.

No

That's is one way of keeping your system up to date. You buy the As-eq1 that does what the xt32 does for subs and the oppo bd93 You run the video to the display and the audio to the AVP.

But know WillyJ has told us that it can be done through the AVP as he is doing it know. Maybe Denon knew about it but forgot to communicate to us.

Youve been watching too much Percy Jackson