Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 676

we already have the denon link 4 upgrade.

cool thanks Frank. I'm guessing then I'm going to have to run in a few firmware upgrades when I hook up? The units I purchased from dealer have been sitting in stock for a while. I wouldn't be surprised if it has original software...

if i remember we had to pay for that upgrade hopefully yours has it already.

They're pretty freaking long, and the cables are generic mini xlrs so you should be able to get extensions no problem.

I can't see it making a difference. I've run both from my PS Audio GCPH to the AVP and I certainly didn't notice anything.
I'm not certain about the internal analog path of the AVP, but I can't see why there would be a different one though.
With the RCA's I'd imagine you'd just have a common ground in there somewhere which is likely no different than your source since the turntable itself isn't balanced.

^^

Thanks.

I run the same setup. I do use the XLR for my TT the reason is I have a long run to the AVP and XLR give my a quieter single pass. Other than that I don't see any other reason for using XLR.

Brad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giqM2...layer_embedded

hehe a promotional video there, denon a legacy of firsts

Nice video Al. I like the flagship bit at the end.

Long runs are the only real reason to use XLR's in favor of RCA's, and it has nothing to do with sound quality.
As you suggest it's about the ability to reject noise, a really long RCA cable can turn into an antenna of sorts depending on its shielding quality. Having a ground separate from the signal leads, as XLR's cables do, enhances noise rejection.

It takes a significant length to be a factor though, typically much, longer than the average home audio set up will come close to using. And the other factor obviously is there has to be noise causing sources for them to reject.

XLR's make a lot of sense in commercial applications, where they're using miles of the stuff and need rugged connections for the amount of times they set up and tear down their gear, and that stoned guitarists can't yank out of their amps too.

It's been over two months since Rhapsody changed their servers. I am still paying them expecting the Denon update so I can log in to my Rhapsody account. When is Denon going to release this update.

Anyone know?

Thanks guys. My TT will be less than 3 feet from the AVP and I am careful to run the power cords at the bottom of my rack away from the signal cables so I should be good to go.

That's good thanks for that.

You right. I have my TT in the back corner which is a 30 ft run or so I just ran the XLR to start with since its the longest run I have.

Brad

I was told by an audiophile in a highend store over here that cheap balanced cables are just as good any apparentley you pay more for RCAs to achieve what a balanced cable can do.

Are you using the phono preamp inside the AVP-A1HD? If so, how do you convert the XLRs to RCAs?

No matter what you pay, RCAs cannot do what balanced connections can do: Facilitate high CMRR.

It also makes sense if you buy a pre/pro and amps that support these no? I mean they invested money into making the design balanced and not using it seems silly to me if you can keep the cost of the cables down. It seems like good practice to use the best connection method possible even if it might not yield any positive effect in your case. The end result is what matters but getting there it just makes sense to use the best tools your setups allow.

Daniel.

Roger.

I am using the PS Audio GCPH phone pre-amp, it has both RCA and XLR outputs.

Brad

This can be done fairly easily and there are commercial cables and special connectors available if you don't want to solder or do it yourself. It defeats the purpose of XLR cables but for short runs it may not matter as noted in the discussion above.

http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/co...xlr-rca-1.html

Since you mention it, I wonder if anyone is using the built-in phono stage in the AVP and if it is any good. I haven't seen anything on it nor have I tried it myself. If it is like the rest of the AVP, it should be pretty darn good.

Well he's right to a point, basically XLR cables are simple three twisted wires, nothing special, as I mentioned above, having the ground separate from the +/- leads is basically what rejects noise.
For short runs, the shielding that simple rubber offers is sufficient for RCA's, they may not have the same noise rejection capabilities as XLR's of the same distance but they don't usually need it either.
To "enhance" noise rejection of RCA cables you have to increase shielding so that's where it gets more expensive because you either have bigger rubber insulation (or whatever material you decide to use) or you have to build a coaxial wire which is the most common.
If you recall a long while ago when subs first started to come into the picture you had to get "sub cables", basically coaxial, because the runs were longer.
The thing is coaxial wire is still dirt cheap and today even the cheapest of RCA's are built using coaxial wires.

Distance is the key to what your guy is saying, without saying, if you know what I mean.

Noise aside, as long as both types of cables have the right electrical properties to carry the signal the distance required there is no reason for any audible difference.

The AVP's phono stage was good enough to rekindle my interest in vinyl.
But at the suggestion of someone here I decided to try a pre-amp and I found a worthwhile improvement using the PS Audio GCPH.
It's a subjective observation of course, so take it with a grain of salt.

No argument here.

The key point is the cost factor, you don't have to buy $500 per foot XLR's.

I believe the AVP & POA are true balanced designs so it makes sense to use XLR's and keep the signal balanced. But just because a unit supports the connection, doesn't make it a true balanced design though.

My understanding is as soon as there's a common ground to chassis (as RCA's use) it ain't balanced. You can get away with somehting that acts like an isolation transformer in the path, but that's a work-around solution. It's also what a phono preamp would have to do since a turntable uses a chassis ground.

Like a lot of things audio there's a stigma attached to balanced stuff and XLR's that vendors use to pry money out of our wallets, it's really way over blown when you get down to the meat & potatoes of what's really going on.

Again distance is the key. In the distances involved in typical home applications do you really need to worry about CMRR in cables?
Besides, isn't that the job of well desinged input and output circuits inside the gear itself?

I am sure Roger or Kal will jump in soon, since both will probably make the argument that having a fully balanced design has less value today then in the old days since for most of us we try to keep our signals digital as long as possible. The avp is one of the very few fully balanced designs but thats only true for analog signals. For me if a signal is digital ill keep it digital as long as i can in this case until the avp's dacs where they go analog over xlr to the poa.

I like expensive cables as long as i don't pay for them, The Supra XLR cables i got are about $150 a pair i think. I like the build and the color . Maybe this is different in the states but cables and other 'glue' stuff is great to add value to a sale if you are taking new equipment.

So for me, use what is available and get expensive cables that cost you very little *grin*.

Daniel.

Well it wouldn't be an argument because I agree.
And as far as cables go it just boils down to common sense and budget, but there is a point where it just gets plain stupid even if you can afford it.

@rnrgagne, well if we can't argue i guess ill add something else to the thread

Like many others i am always looking for new toys to stream audio/video. As some know i got kind of done with external streamers and 100% hate the internal stuff in the avp (why anyone would want to use it).

So i added a new mac mini server to my setup, Its a quadcore low voltage i7 cpu (amazing power for 1kg box) with a 256Gig SSD.

Results so far, it has so much power that for most things its near idle the result is low power and silent.

to give you a idea :

playing music over hdmi -> 9watts usage
playing 1080p/h.264 -> 15watts usage

What is amazing is that somehow apple improved the wifi latency, when using the remote HD app to iTunes its FAST. When changing track on a album its without delay its scary it almost feels like it changed tracks before my finger hit the screen !.

Bad news default apple seems to continue their new idea that fixing the hdmi to 48khz (this started with the new appletv2) it does do 7.1 over multichannel to the avp but fixed at this speed. I am sure i can change it somehow but didn't put too much time into it.

For sound quality well it sounds fine, i am guessing over time these new macmini's with SSD and thunderbolt (waiting for nice audio outputs) will turn into very nice audio transports.

Daniel.

Perfect! More importantly, it has balanced inputs.

I put my streaming stuff away for a bit since I had to tear out my HT.
But I'm going to revisit it in full force when I figure out my HT's new location and set up.
I just need something to get the unaltered digital files from my NAS to the AVP and that's simple enough for me to use. For me a streamer like the Boxee Box or Popcorn Hour would be the ticket I think especially since they both have built in jukeboxes that are automatic to some degree.

No. If there's a short run with no induced interference, there's no need for balanced connections, nor to "pay more for RCAs to achieve what a balanced cable can do."


No. Single-ended inputs have no CMRR.