Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 689

Originally Posted by bankrupt

I now have an e-mail response from Denmark. They have been in contact with Denon regarding my questions.

As previously stated, surround B will be disabled.

Audyssey DSX will be up to 9 channels, this due to lack of processing power in the AVP for the Audyssey platform. DTS Neo:X will be 11.1.

HDMI will be 1.3 (with 3D).

They will start upgrading in 2-3 weeks.

Sry for contributing to confusion earlier.

David

Originally Posted by danielo

...I do hope they pick a stable solution i would rather have stable (and faster) hdmi 1.3c chips than the newest on the edge 1.4...

Originally Posted by bankrupt

Do you think this upgrade could improve switching times, and perhaps also handshake issues? (My pc is a constant problem... )

Originally Posted by tangcoma

wow ! My dream is not completely break ! So i can still use all my 11 speakers and the JL Audio "Master and Slave" to archive my 11.2 set up ! But really don't know how the different between Neo X compare with DSX ? Which one sound more exciting ? And now i am running DSX front wide and it's incredible and hope the DTS Neo X don't let me down ! Still really want to try the full 11.2 DSX in the not far future ! Any people have experience to hear DTS Neo X before ? And can u tell us what's your though ?

Originally Posted by danielo

Well hdmi is always fun, i use about 10 to 15 devices with this wonderful plug . If you have multiple in a chain the end results can be that it takes a while or they never sync for example. So yes i think changing them to newer models and new code could change (in both directions good and bad) things.

Daniel.

Originally Posted by SJHT

Anyone actually been contacted about the upgrade?

Originally Posted by bankrupt


I have no experience with > 7.1. There are most likely several others here that have, hopefully even someone that's done an A/B comparison and can shed some light on the issue. I remain a little sceptical, but I will definitely be onboard when BD:s are 11.1

It sounds like you might be one of the first to try 11.x on the AVP, hope you give us a full report...

David

Originally Posted by tangcoma

Hey David ! I am highly recommend that u must try the Audyssey Front Wide set up ! U will be blown away ! Actually I like more DSX than Pro Logic llz ! DSX sound bigger , wider and much more solid bass come out ! And compare that with Pro Logic llz , is a bit too soft for my own type ! And compare DTS Neo 6 with Pro Logic llx , DTS is the worst one ! So I am not so much counting on the newest Neo X ! Hope they use the past 2 years to do something surprise us !

Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew


DSX and Neo:X are different in a couple of very fundamental ways.
DSX incorporates the results of Audyessy room calibration for YOUR ROOM and actually uses the wide and height speakers to create room reflections that simulate an "ideal" listening environment.

Neo:X is basically a souped-up version of Neo:7 or PLIIx. It recreates an "ideal" envioronment over up to 11.1 speakers, just like DSX, but unlike DSX, it doesn't know what your room sounds like and cannot correct for your individual room with added reverb and reflections as DSX can and does.

It would be interesting to overlay DSX over Neo:X, but as far as I know, DSX can only upscale from at most a 7.1 source, so that can't happen right now, they are mutually exclusive.

Theoretically, DSX has a HUGE advantage, being a fully integrated solution, from EQ to upmixing to 11.1. In practice, who knows? There is currently NO reciever that can do both DSX 11.1 and Neo:X 11.1. Onkyo, for some unexplainable reason, once again left full 11.1 DSX out for a 3rd straight year.
I guess we will have to wait for the Denon 4313ci next spring to do a real comparo. I have a suspicion my 4311ci with it's 11.2 Audyessy DSX/MultiEQ32 will be staying put.

Originally Posted by tangcoma

And I really don't know why Onkyo does't allow the full 11.2 set up !

Originally Posted by gsr


Presumably because more processing power would be needed, which would raise the cost of the product and not allow them to reach whatever their target retail price is. None of this stuff comes for free, so they need to balance feature sets with what they think people are willing to spend (and what the competition is charging for more or less comparable products).

Originally Posted by tangcoma

Don't know how much processing power need to drive a Full DSX 11.1 , but the mid range model like 4311 and 4810 can run that , so I don't think so much cost that will raise after adding 2 more ch ! And until DSX has be launched for 3 years already , and the new DTS Neo x is also launched this year , is a very good time to advertising the Full 11.x set up ! The people who has installed 9 ch now , they most want to try 11 ch just like me !

Originally Posted by tangcoma

Don't know how much processing power need to drive a Full DSX 11.1 , but the mid range model like 4311 and 4810 can run that , so I don't think so much cost that will raise after adding 2 more ch ! And until DSX has be launched for 3 years already , and the new DTS Neo x is also launched this year , is a very good time to advertising the Full 11.x set up ! The people who has installed 9 ch now , they most want to try 11 ch just like me !

Originally Posted by rnrgagne

/\\
Probably not very large in relative terms.

The 4311 & 10 are two or three generations older than the AVP, no doubt they have more advanced CPU's, so hardly a fair comparison.

Originally Posted by ohyeah32

I've got a couple of questions about this upgrade.

Since we now know that we're not getting HDMI 1.4, and it will still be 1.3, will it be able to passthrough 1080p 3D or will it be limited to 720p 3D?

And with regard to the surround B channel being disabled, does this apply even if one isn't going to use DSX? Right now I'm using surround B for my L/R surround height channels, so will this mean I will no longer be able to use them?

Thanks in advance,

Seth

Originally Posted by ohyeah32

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the rear center surround (for 6.1/7.1)was going to be disabled, was that just some misinformation? I use the rear center surround for everything (THX Ultra 2 engaged), and I have a ton of 6.1/7.1 Blu-ray's. I would hate to lose that rear center channel.


Seth

Originally Posted by gsr


Features usually get left out for 1 reason - cost. Whether the cost is due to licensing or hardware requirements is largely irrelevant. Except on "cost no object" products, companies always have a price point they target for any given product with an associated profit margin for that price point. The feature mix gets stirred up until they find the balance they're comfortable with that meets their target price. Generally speaking, if some other feature can be added at no extra cost, they're going to include it as it adds another check mark to the list of features.

With the AVP upgrade, they presumably have some more unusual restrictions in how far they can go without making the cost of the upgrade high enough that it doesn't make sense. As the cost of the upgrade approaches 50% of the MSRP of the original product, it would become a problem. Replacing the CPU/DSP chips would most likely be an extremely expensive upgrade as would replacing the video processor board (which they would most likely need to do to give us full HDMI 1.4 in the upgrade).

Originally Posted by rnrgagne

DSX is a movie enhancer, I can't see using it for music, so it's not a big deal for me.
The fact we're getting an upgrade at all is hugely significant, especially when the largest benefit should be enhanced audio performance.
It's the first component I've had that such an upgrade was offered, despite claims of "future proof-ness" by other manufacturers.

Originally Posted by danielo


How large do you think the user group is that wants 11.1 ?. On the cpu/dsp power its most of the time not that easy to 'upgrade' a chip from generation to generation they might have to jump brand or model. Also many have been burned several times with dsp solutions (most don't make the software themselves) oem makers claim work .

So they have the habit to stick to what works until they really need to move on to a new version of a chipset solution.

Daniel.

Originally Posted by S_rangeBrew

DSX and Neo:X are different in a couple of very fundamental ways.

DSX incorporates the results of Audyessy room calibration for YOUR ROOM and actually uses the wide and height speakers to create room reflections that simulate an "ideal" listening environment.

Neo:X is basically a souped-up version of Neo:7 or PLIIx. It recreates an "ideal" envioronment over up to 11.1 speakers, just like DSX, but unlike DSX, it doesn't know what your room sounds like and cannot correct for your individual room with added reverb and reflections as DSX can and does.

It would be interesting to overlay DSX over Neo:X, but as far as I know, DSX can only upscale from at most a 7.1 source, so that can't happen right now, they are mutually exclusive.

Theoretically, DSX has a HUGE advantage, being a fully integrated solution, from EQ to upmixing to 11.1. In practice, who knows? There is currently NO reciever that can do both DSX 11.1 and Neo:X 11.1. Onkyo, for some unexplainable reason, once again left full 11.1 DSX out for a 3rd straight year.
I guess we will have to wait for the Denon 4313ci next spring to do a real comparo. I have a suspicion my 4311ci with it's 11.2 Audyessy DSX/MultiEQ32 will be staying put.

Originally Posted by FilmMixer


DSX and Audyssey XT32 room correction are not related at all (i.e. DSX isn't dependent on the room correction to do it's thing)..

DSX is a post process up mixing technology, just as DTS Neo:X is.. you will never be able to use them at the same time because they do the same thing (with different algorithms.)

Put another way, you will never be able to "overlay" DSX over Neo:X (and vice versa...)

You should, however, be able to use XT32 and up mix your sources with Neo:X.

Originally Posted by tangcoma

So I am expecting they will really launched a Brand new design AVP in the future that can support all the thing I need !

Originally Posted by danielo


I doubt it, I think the market has shifted and we will not see a followup of the AVP anytime soon. By extending the life-span with the upgrade they just got 2 more years to think if they want to continue this path. Like i stated unless you really want 11.1 its still better than most if not all high end pre/pro's in the feature department.

Daniel.

Originally Posted by tangcoma

I am really want the 11.1 , because I've installed all 11speakers already ! Surely I want they all operate at the same time ! So the DTS Neo X on AVP can support up to 11.1 is my only hope ! If the result of the Neo X is not as good as DSX , I will keep use Front wide or Front high of DSX and assign the other two speaker to Front ! And use 4 front ch to run all my speakers !