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Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 747

post #22381 of 25088
That looks like a very nice place Daniel.
post #22382 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post


Yes it was (probably already clear from my last post), Keep in mind this was a place that does tuning/modding and these types of places are always very passionate about hardware unlike repear shops who consider it work.

Came in around 11:00, dropped the avp of at the work area so one person could start working on it. We then moved to a very nice full surround setup with a matching visual setup (130ish screen driven by a sim2 3 chipper). A different client (who turned out to be a designer/engineer for bmw) was listening to a avp/poa/a1ud sacd's and we joined the session for about a hour.

Then we went to lunch and left them to work on the unit, went to nice picture perfect place called Monshau :

Returned about 15:00, work was done and they moved my avp into the theater after a coffee they hooked it up to test it while i was present. The bad news was we found a problem so they had to take apart again i watched a little of this in the workshop they didn't mind. Once that was fixed back to the theater and do a rundown test of all the channels, videosystem and some of the basics.

Last part of the day was more about comparing my avp with their avp (that has been tuned) this was also nice because they used my own avp so it was a second shakedown test before i left. Ill talk more about the tuning later since that was not really part of the upgrade.

But as you can see a totally different experience then you had, next time i need to upgrade something or repear a brand they support i know where ill ask first. So for people locally to this place http://www.cinemike.de/ is a good place to get your 3d upgrade (is plugging like this allowed ?).

Daniel.

I am glad it worked out well for you... Yes, very different enviroment in any sense of the word. .
From what i see in the photo it's certainly worth the drive. Just beautiful!
post #22383 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post


I had reported in the thread last fall that Denon Mgt indicated that due to the expected shortage of parts by this spring, Denon would no longer be able to mfr either the AVP or the 5308CI and that both models would be discontinued. However, the 3D upgrade kit will still be available for some time.

Thanks for the details.
post #22384 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post


Well for anyone in germany or the netherlands i guess i can advice the place i went today. For one thing it will probably be the only time you will see avp's and poa all over the place . It was about a 2.5hour drive back and i just got in and did a basic setup and its fine.

I have now seen both the avp (including mine) and poa in several stages of undress. When i came in they had a poa 100% stripped by the time i left it was almost looking normal again (still without the covers).

We did run into a small problem that ill post about tomorrow and as a result they had to take it apart again but for the rest it went very smooth.

The amount of avp's/poa's they have gives me reason to think they have a good inside track to some information so here it goes :

The avp/poa is discontinued, they picked up the 3 last avp's in germany for future sales to clients (i guess with their tuning). He didn't expect denon to even consider to make a new one (marantz is it seems) because of the bad state D&M is in now. The new lineup will be announced end of the month and it will show the merging of the brands in D&M at the component level.

On the upgrade kits, they do many upgrades. Including mine they had 5 new kits and all where spoken for. The batch that just came into europe was 100kits and his info was that denon will do 1 more run for europe with 50kits and that will be it.

More on the tuning/upgrade tomorrow kind of tired and doubt i am making sense .

Daniel.

It's sad that Denon is in trouble.

Even today, after several years of ownership of the avp I can't think of any replacement still. Well, I did look around a while back because I needed a feature that the avp lacks, and couldn't find anything worth the price or the feauture I was looking for.
post #22385 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post


It's sad that Denon is in trouble.

Even today, after several years of ownership of the avp I can't think of any replacement still. Well, I did look around a while back because I needed a feature that the avp lacks, and couldn't find anything worth the price or the feauture I was looking for.

Amen. SJ
post #22386 of 25088
Being that Denon is in trouble and parts becoming hard to get, im hoping my Denon hangs in there for at least another 5 years.
post #22387 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Being that Denon is in trouble and parts becoming hard to get, im hoping my Denon hangs in there for at least another 5 years.

You and me both, brotha Franin. I'm quite pleased with it's performance and have really no interest in anything else that's out there right now.
post #22388 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

It's sad that Denon is in trouble.

Even today, after several years of ownership of the avp I can't think of any replacement still. Well, I did look around a while back because I needed a feature that the avp lacks, and couldn't find anything worth the price or the feauture I was looking for.

Well let me not be the one to say they are in danger i don't think they are. Its a big holding but the numbers are out there for anyone to read if they want. Its clear that a few years ago denon had a solid grip on things like the receiver market and they lost it over the last 3 years to 2 other brands a refocus is needed and being proud that all your brands are doing their own R&D just doesn't make any sense for example.

The talk i had with the tuning people only confirmed my view on the avp and poa (that they feel has its limits). We talked about several other pre/pro's we all know and probably have considered when the time it came out and they feel the basic engineering is on a whole other level and it was the only logical option for people with complex systems within the price range. On the future we talked about why they feel putting more money into it (tuning) makes sense on a 4 year old machine they are also clear the base engineering is still some of the best they have seen and they don't expect anyone to release something close in the next 2 years. There is a market for high end pre/pro's no doubt but not the way denon did it they are more of the less is more method i guess. Now they are clearly fans of the products they use like all of us but the fact they are buying up avp's if they can find them looked convincing.

As tuners they do feel there is room to improve and the avp was designed to a price point (probably aimed at the lexicon back then) and he gave a example of the dac boards where the original design calls for parts that the production runs of the avp doesn't have but there is room for on the boards. They just use better parts and fill in the already designed parts denon decided didn't add enough to the end result.

They had different brands they tuned but the avp was their top-pick and what they use themselves. The one they also liked since its still available and a nice base to work from is the new marantz pre/pro thats popular now but thats a different price class. Same for the a1ud vs the oppo's for example they also both tune.

Don't want this thread to turn into a tuning discussion but its a good way to get some more insight into some of these design issues. Like i stated before for a technical person (like most of us are) its always nice to talk to technical people who have a passion for real design vs name/brand or vague claims that you can confuse with 1 semi technical question that results in answers involving the color purple and unicorns.

Daniel.
post #22389 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post


Well let me not be the one to say they are in danger i don't think they are. Its a big holding but the numbers are out there for anyone to read if they want. Its clear that a few years ago denon had a solid grip on things like the receiver market and they lost it over the last 3 years to 2 other brands a refocus is needed and being proud that all your brands are doing their own R&D just doesn't make any sense for example.

The talk i had with the tuning people only confirmed my view on the avp and poa (that they feel has its limits). We talked about several other pre/pro's we all know and probably have considered when the time it came out and they feel the basic engineering is on a whole other level and it was the only logical option for people with complex systems within the price range. On the future we talked about why they feel putting more money into it (tuning) makes sense on a 4 year old machine they are also clear the base engineering is still some of the best they have seen and they don't expect anyone to release something close in the next 2 years. There is a market for high end pre/pro's no doubt but not the way denon did it they are more of the less is more method i guess. Now they are clearly fans of the products they use like all of us but the fact they are buying up avp's if they can find them looked convincing.

As tuners they do feel there is room to improve and the avp was designed to a price point (probably aimed at the lexicon back then) and he gave a example of the dac boards where the original design calls for parts that the production runs of the avp doesn't have but there is room for on the boards. They just use better parts and fill in the already designed parts denon decided didn't add enough to the end result.

They had different brands they tuned but the avp was their top-pick and what they use themselves. The one they also liked since its still available and a nice base to work from is the new marantz pre/pro thats popular now but thats a different price class. Same for the a1ud vs the oppo's for example they also both tune.

Don't want this thread to turn into a tuning discussion but its a good way to get some more insight into some of these design issues. Like i stated before for a technical person (like most of us are) its always nice to talk to technical people who have a passion for real design vs name/brand or vague claims that you can confuse with 1 semi technical question that results in answers involving the color purple and unicorns.

Daniel.

Seems like a have a rejuvenated avp now, that's a great feeling...

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
.
post #22390 of 25088
Franins post about keeping the AVP for another 5 years got me thinking. I'd love to get 5 or more years out of my AVP. So I started mulling over the upgrade. Is it worth it? I call the first Denon service center in my area. I gave the model number to the guy who answered the phone. His response, "is that a tv or something?"

I then call the second Denon service center listed. They have heard of it and even said their technician is highly trained and has done a couple upgrades already. Not sure if I want to risk it or even if it's worth it. I don't have a lot of faith in Denon's service centers.
post #22391 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Franins post about keeping the AVP for another 5 years got me thinking. I'd love to get 5 or more years out of my AVP. So I started mulling over the upgrade. Is it worth it? I call the first Denon service center in my area. I gave the model number to the guy who answered the phone. His response, "is that a tv or something?"

I then call the second Denon service center listed. They have heard of it and even said their technician is highly trained and has done a couple upgrades already. Not sure if I want to risk it or even if it's worth it. I don't have a lot of faith in Denon's service centers.

Assuming you can locate a competent service center, the upgrade is WELL worth the effort.
post #22392 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Franins post about keeping the AVP for another 5 years got me thinking. I'd love to get 5 or more years out of my AVP. So I started mulling over the upgrade. Is it worth it? I call the first Denon service center in my area. I gave the model number to the guy who answered the phone. His response, "is that a tv or something?"

I then call the second Denon service center listed. They have heard of it and even said their technician is highly trained and has done a couple upgrades already. Not sure if I want to risk it or even if it's worth it. I don't have a lot of faith in Denon's service centers.

What scares me waboman is I take it to my centre and the guys mess it up.
post #22393 of 25088
This discontinued and part-unavailable stuff is pretty scary considering we just got our AVP a couple of months ago! There's always a savvy tech somewhere that can keep things working, right?
post #22394 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorO View Post

This discontinued and part-unavailable stuff is pretty scary considering we just got our AVP a couple of months ago! There's always a savvy tech somewhere that can keep things working, right?

Well we knew it would happen, the avp was designed around 2006/2007 and it won't last forever. But it seems there is a good following of people who seem want to see these units turn into classics so someone will support them as far as they can. My guess getting them fixed won't be a problem for the next 2 or 3 years and after that we will see someone harvesting parts for repairs.

Daniel.
post #22395 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

...On the future we talked about why they feel putting more money into it (tuning) makes sense on a 4 year old machine they are also clear the base engineering is still some of the best they have seen and they don't expect anyone to release something close in the next 2 years. There is a market for high end pre/pro's no doubt but not the way denon did it they are more of the less is more method i guess. Now they are clearly fans of the products they use like all of us but the fact they are buying up avp's if they can find them looked convincing.

They had different brands they tuned but the avp was their top-pick and what they use themselves. The one they also liked since its still available and a nice base to work from is the new marantz pre/pro thats popular now but thats a different price class. Same for the a1ud vs the oppo's for example they also both tune...

Very interesting. Thank you for your report

David
post #22396 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post


Assuming you can locate a competent service center, the upgrade is WELL worth the effort.

That's my dilemma now...anyone's positive experience in NYC?
post #22397 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

That's my dilemma now...anyone's positive experience in NYC?

I would just call D&M holdings directly and explain/ask them. If there is one thing they can do for avp owners is help you find a good upgrade place they had to upgrade their own avp's no .

Daniel.
post #22398 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post


I would just call D&M holdings directly and explain/ask them. If there is one thing they can do for avp owners is help you find a good upgrade place they had to upgrade their own avp's no .

Daniel.


Indeed!
post #22399 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Assuming you can locate a competent service center, the upgrade is WELL worth the effort.

It's too bad the upgrade isn't a la carte. The main reason for me is for the XT32. Assuming it's not smoke & mirrors. My front speakers are nearly 6' tall. I won't need the height channels. Also, I just don't have the room for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

What scares me waboman is I take it to my centre and the guys mess it up.

You and me both, Franin. The service center tech thought the AVP-A1HDCI was a tv. C'mon, man! Seems Denon is giving out licenses to any Joe-the-rag-man in a van down by the river.
post #22400 of 25088
more like idiots working at a registed repair agent though not actually certified by denon to actaully work on denon's gear..
post #22401 of 25088
Im curious to see if anyone where i live has done the upgrade yet?
post #22402 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post



You and me both, Franin. The service center tech thought the AVP-A1HDCI was a tv.

Well that's not exactly what you want to hear.
post #22403 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic_sniper28 View Post

more like idiots working at a registed repair agent though not actually certified by denon to actaully work on denon's gear..

I have to agree with you there.
post #22404 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post


Well that's not exactly what you want to hear.

It certainly doesn't instill confidence in handing over your flagship pre/pro and then giving them a $1k on top of it. Do you have any plans doing the upgrade?
post #22405 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

It's too bad the upgrade isn't a la carte. The main reason for me is for the XT32. Assuming it's not smoke & mirrors.

The upgrade is no smoke 'n mirrors, the sound improvement is legit. And I am one of the most skeptical guys around here. Even on straight 2-channel PCM, the improvement is there. XT32 is damn good. I've said it before here, regular XT sucked (to me). XT32 is the first, legitimate, audiophile-approved room correction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

It certainly doesn't instill confidence in handing over your flagship pre/pro and then giving them a $1k on top of it. Do you have any plans doing the upgrade?

I didn't like handing over my AVP, either. I spent 30+ minutes taping up the exterior with painter's tape, just to avoid any nicks and scratches (yes, I'm that anal). Fortunately, my service center was fast, and my AVP was returned to me in the exact shape that I dropped it off.

I wasn't jumping on the 3D upgrade when it first came out, but I'm sure glad I didn't wait any longer.

This upgrade give me at least another 5 years out of the AVP. And like many of you, I'm constantly keeping my eyes open for the "next best thing".
post #22406 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post


It's too bad the upgrade isn't a la carte. The main reason for me is for the XT32. Assuming it's not smoke & mirrors. My front speakers are nearly 6' tall. I won't need the height channels. Also, I just don't have the room for them.

You and me both, Franin. The service center tech thought the AVP-A1HDCI was a tv. C'mon, man! Seems Denon is giving out licenses to any Joe-the-rag-man in a van down by the river.

You said it...

at Denon's main service center (north east) , I inquired about the upgrade, twice, and in both circumstances the answer was: "we don't suggest the upgrade because if you don't care for 3D it's not needed".
I explained that despite my lack of interest in 3D I would like to upgrade to audyssey xt32. The answer was: "no, that it about 3D sound and you need more speakers for that...". I tried to explain again that I was talking about the higher resolution of the calibration process... but he kept on saying that the upgrade is only about 3d sound with speakers all over .... I gave up
post #22407 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post


It certainly doesn't instill confidence in handing over your flagship pre/pro and then giving them a $1k on top of it. Do you have any plans doing the upgrade?

Not really, there are times i think about it though.
post #22408 of 25088
pity some service centres out there sounds like a bunch of cowboys. in oz I can tell you done by official denon service centre it went very smoothly. guys even if not doing it for 3D the benefits are there for audio with xt32 processor etc this upgrade brings. do grab this while still available. I think be something regret not getting down the track.

frank have a chat to agp about your local service centre. as I know they wont just anyone do it in oz. give you some sense of confidence. otherwise could ship it to apg but then theres costs for that and risk of damage in transit etc.
post #22409 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

pity some service centres out there sounds like a bunch of cowboys. in oz I can tell you done by official denon service centre it went very smoothly. guys even if not doing it for 3D the benefits are there for audio with xt32 processor etc this upgrade brings. do grab this while still available. I think be something regret not getting down the track.

frank have a chat to agp about your local service centre. as I know they wont just anyone do it in oz. give you some sense of confidence. otherwise could ship it to apg but then theres costs for that and risk of damage in transit etc.

I did Al they believed the service centre they recommend were the best to do the job. Actually the head guy was meant to be doing the job but talking too him he said one of his young workers was going to do it. I wasnt too happy about that. That is why on Monday I first will call APG and ask them if anyone in Perth has done the upgrade and if they have i will then contact the service centre to see how it went. I wonder if Tassop did the upgrade? ( That's all i know who has one in Perth).
post #22410 of 25088
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

You said it...

at Denon's main service center (north east) , I inquired about the upgrade, twice, and in both circumstances the answer was: "we don't suggest the upgrade because if you don't care for 3D it's not needed".
I explained that despite my lack of interest in 3D I would like to upgrade to audyssey xt32. The answer was: "no, that it about 3D sound and you need more speakers for that...". I tried to explain again that I was talking about the higher resolution of the calibration process... but he kept on saying that the upgrade is only about 3d sound with speakers all over .... I gave up

Amazing you always hope people who work with animals like animals, that car shops hire people who get high of the smell of fuel. But it seems when into audio all bets are off. I can see how a 2 channel guy from the old age isn't up with the features but this is a main service center of denon receivers and these types of features are their main way of making money.

If you haven't upgraded make sure you do, extend the lifespan of your product. Sure XT32 is the main thing but there are other smaller things i am already seeing like different hdmi handshaking results, the direct video mode and cleanup of the osd.

Thats why i say just call D&M directly we didn't buy $100 toys and ask for help if you have problems finding a good place to perform the upgrade. At the very least if would give d&m signals on what we care about and who knows that might help them in the future to find that sweetspot again in this difficult market.

Daniel.
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