or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 802

post #24031 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

Hi everybody,
I will also become an AVP owner in one day or so and I was asking myself how to deal with the XLR - RCA problem. May be this question was discussed already a long time ago and it would be nice, if somebody can point me to an answer or answer this directly. Thank you.
My assumption is, that it is of great advantage to use the XLR outputs on the AVP due to it's complete symmetrical, internal setup - correct? My problem is now, that some of my equipment has only RCA inputs - one five channel amp and my subwoofers.
How do you deal with this issue?
I mean buying a POA is not an option, I am using Audionet power amps - AMP V and AMP VII. The latter has XLR inputs. I am somehow hesitating to 'brute-force' them non-symmetrical by bridging pins 1 and 3. This could have a bad feedback on the circuits in the AVP.
Can somebody tell me what is your experience with that? What are you using?
Thank you in advance
Markus

You don"t have to brute force anything. Simply connect vii with xlr and v with rca"s. Then on the menu on the avp make adjustments for the output , whichever is xlr and whichever is rca.You "ll be fine.
post #24032 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

Hi everybody,
I will also become an AVP owner in one day or so and I was asking myself how to deal with the XLR - RCA problem. May be this question was discussed already a long time ago and it would be nice, if somebody can point me to an answer or answer this directly. Thank you.
My assumption is, that it is of great advantage to use the XLR outputs on the AVP due to it's complete symmetrical, internal setup - correct? My problem is now, that some of my equipment has only RCA inputs - one five channel amp and my subwoofers.
How do you deal with this issue?
I mean buying a POA is not an option, I am using Audionet power amps - AMP V and AMP VII. The latter has XLR inputs. I am somehow hesitating to 'brute-force' them non-symmetrical by bridging pins 1 and 3. This could have a bad feedback on the circuits in the AVP.
Can somebody tell me what is your experience with that? What are you using?
Thank you in advance
Markus

Per GSR, use the XLR's where you can and the RCA ouputs for unbalanced connections. Please note that the RCA outputs are just a parrallel output of the + feed on the XLR, they do not come from a seperate driver circuit. So the signal on them is exactly the same as that on the XLR except that is 6dB down on the balanced output.
post #24033 of 25955
Dear gsr, jomark911 and Digione,

Thank you VERY much for your answers. This answered my question completely.

Thank you very much again.

Seasons greetings

Markus
post #24034 of 25955
Today, I put the AVP into operation for the first time and I can only say, I am flattered.

This is a great improvement compared to my Onkyo PR-SC5509. The AVP is very quick in processing the sound events and mold them. The channel separation - I couldn't believe this first - is excellent. Front image is really three dimensional, sound events are clearly placed in the room, the sound is not on the speakers it is in the room.

I am looking forward to do the '3D Upgrade', I have already ordered. But I have to say, alone this experience of sound, is worth the price, I paid for a used unit.

Just to let you know, what my first impression of the AVP is.
post #24035 of 25955
If you think it sounds good now...... Wait til you get the Audyssey XT32 upgrade as was :-)
post #24036 of 25955
Merry Christmas fellow AVP owners smile.gif
post #24037 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

Merry Christmas fellow AVP owners smile.gif

Same to you all and all the people inside D&M who worked on these devices. Its amazing that most of us are now going into the 5th xmas movie week with our avp's and poa's as the core of our electronics. Whats even more amazing that over the last few months we have more than a few new owners so welcome to Ganymed and others. Saying we will still use the avp/poa in 5 years is silly but more and more i get the feeling i would not even be shocked if i would end up using it for 10 years. Amazing if you think about it its a pity that most who worked on it inside D&M are not able to make a followup i hope they all found a new place inside the company or other companies and we will see more of their work in the future in the not so cheap level.

Happy xmas and new year people...

Daniel.
post #24038 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

Merry Christmas fellow AVP owners smile.gif

Merry Christmas to you to Al and the rest of the AVP owners smile.gif
post #24039 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Same to you all and all the people inside D&M who worked on these devices. Its amazing that most of us are now going into the 5th xmas movie week with our avp's and poa's as the core of our electronics. Whats even more amazing that over the last few months we have more than a few new owners so welcome to Ganymed and others. Saying we will still use the avp/poa in 5 years is silly but more and more i get the feeling i would not even be shocked if i would end up using it for 10 years. Amazing if you think about it its a pity that most who worked on it inside D&M are not able to make a followup i hope they all found a new place inside the company or other companies and we will see more of their work in the future in the not so cheap level.
Happy xmas and new year people...
Daniel.

Merry Christmas to you too Danielo but I see myself owning the AVP in the future. smile.gif
post #24040 of 25955
Merry Christmas to you all!

I've said this a couple of times already, but here isn't a scenario short of having to downsize where I can see getting rid of my AVP.
In my mind the AVP does music so well that any new techonlogy coming down the pipe will be worth working around to keep it.
I wonder what it would cost just to get a 2ch pre-amp/dac with room correction that is as good as the AVP? Probably more than a used AVP lol!
post #24041 of 25955
The current AVP is an amazing piece, and with the latest hardware updates still a very competitive unit in the market. If I we’re forced to buy a new processor today, it would still be my first choice.

But D&M must be planning a follow-on for a few years hence, so here’s my Xmas 2015 wish list for a new AVP:

First, what to keep:
  • Amazing sound quality
  • Dual-differential D/A and analog paths
  • High quality transformers and analog preamps
  • Segregated digital audio / video and analog subsytems
  • Easily re-mapped I/O
  • XLR outs in addition to single-ended RCA
  • DenonLink (most likely in new HD form)
  • Triggers and IR inputs
  • Phono input
  • Dual HDMI monitor outputs

What to Drop:
  • All, yes all, Analog video
  • All radio options (Sat/OTA, etc.) get a tuner if you need a radio, it’s 2015 for Pete’s sake
  • If you can’t commit to doing a first-class job of network playback selection and interaction, then drop the pretense and remove all network-based UI-dependent features. External boxes and mobile products do it better and can be revised faster.
  • Reduce the number of analog inputs, 4 or 5 would be enough IMHO (BTW- I have zero analog devices in my big setup)

What to improve:
  • Network playback, this is huge, you really need to step this up, here’s the specs I’d look for:
    • Latest greatest DLNA spec support as a fully-featured Renderer
    • Decode: FLAC: up to 24/96 in up to 8ch , 2ch at up to 24/192
    • Support streamed .dts (up to DTS-MA) and Dolby TrueHD formats
  • Remote controls – easier to use, maybe a simpler unit, then let the Mobile apps deal with the rest
  • Network interface, how about making it really high-speed this time, so backups, firmware updates etc. happen at better than modem speeds.
  • Increase output channels to 16
  • Bring back Surround A + B support for Audio plus Movie setups

What to add:
  • Network switch as in the 4520
  • HDMI outputs for secondary zones
  • Latest Room Corrector system, Audyssey, DiracLive, Trinnov, etc. with full ‘Pro’ external measurement and tweaking support
  • Support up to four subs
  • License the Harman Sound Field Management technology for setting up multiple subs
  • Support vector-based surround systems such as Dolby Atmos
  • Internal processing supports up to 32 channels
  • All 32 channels plus clock and master volume setting can be exposed on a Thunderbolt connection for external processing for active speakers
  • A Thunderbolt Input (same protocol as output) can feed the 16 analog outputs. Allows for external crossovers and EQ to process signals while still using existing D\A and volume on built-in outputs.
  • Support an Expansion Chassis that delivers 16 analog outputs and is connected via the Thunderbolt output. With this one can have a full 32 channel Atmos setup.

Did I miss anything?
post #24042 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

The current AVP is an amazing piece, and with the latest hardware updates still a very competitive unit in the market. If I we’re forced to buy a new processor today, it would still be my first choice.
But D&M must be planning a follow-on for a few years hence, so here’s my Xmas 2015 wish list for a new AVP:

Well, I agree with dropping all (or most) of the analog inputs. They could keep a half-dozen analog L/R inputs, and a single component and a couple of composite inputs. Just for the folks with an older gaming system or some camera monitoring set-up. Just the bare minimum.

But I think most of your dream list regarding 32 channels/Thunderbolt/expansion is just a pipe dream. They've got to build for the 95%, and most of your suggested improvements only apply to the 1%, but add a lot of cost and R&D.

I'd be happy if they made a version with the same features of the 4520, but added all the true-balanced architecture of the current AVP. Sure, I expect better network interfaces, but it's much cheaper and easier to get a third party solution (WD, AppleTV) for your streaming needs. No point in letting Denon chase something they were never good at. Have them focus on things they know how to do. Digital/analog sound quality/DSP/build quality.
post #24043 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Same to you all and all the people inside D&M who worked on these devices. Its amazing that most of us are now going into the 5th xmas movie week with our avp's and poa's as the core of our electronics. Whats even more amazing that over the last few months we have more than a few new owners so welcome to Ganymed and others. Saying we will still use the avp/poa in 5 years is silly but more and more i get the feeling i would not even be shocked if i would end up using it for 10 years. Amazing if you think about it its a pity that most who worked on it inside D&M are not able to make a followup i hope they all found a new place inside the company or other companies and we will see more of their work in the future in the not so cheap level.
Happy xmas and new year people...
Daniel.

very true Daniel, Denon is a very old company and knowing flagship components like the AVP denon have done every ten years logic says we will have a new AVP in 2017. Gives denon plenty of time for developement of a flagship component so its fully tried and tested, solid & bug free. Yeah I too cant believe its been 5 years with this component and looking at development am hoping can be 5 years more smile.gif possible I think not impossible unless there is something quite ground braking in home theatre between now and then. Lets see and hanging in there smile.gif
post #24044 of 25955
Would any "new" AVP be under the Marantz brand at this point? SJ
post #24045 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

Well, I agree with dropping all (or most) of the analog inputs. They could keep a half-dozen analog L/R inputs, and a single component and a couple of composite inputs. Just for the folks with an older gaming system or some camera monitoring set-up. Just the bare minimum.

But once you have one of a given type of input for video, supporting n is easy, what I was trying to avoid is costs and space for what is now a legacy format. Most gaming systems and cameras have had HDMI out for a while now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

But I think most of your dream list regarding 32 channels/Thunderbolt/expansion is just a pipe dream. They've got to build for the 95%, and most of your suggested improvements only apply to the 1%, but add a lot of cost and R&D.

I'll grant you the Thunderbolt expansion is probably going to be an unfulfilled wish, but the high channel count maybe not. If true vector formats, like Atmos and some upcoming DTS formats are going to be supported, a reference-grade processor must support more than 12 channels. 16 minimum, and with an expansion chassis, give the 20 or 30% of the owners who want >16 the option to get them.

Who would have predicted 15 years ago that a top-of-the-line receiver in 2012 would have 12 output channels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I'd be happy if they made a version with the same features of the 4520, but added all the true-balanced architecture of the current AVP. Sure, I expect better network interfaces, but it's much cheaper and easier to get a third party solution (WD, AppleTV) for your streaming needs. No point in letting Denon chase something they were never good at. Have them focus on things they know how to do. Digital/analog sound quality/DSP/build quality.

To me, a 4250 feature set is the mid-range ($3K) AVP, not the reference grade top-of-the-line unit selling for $8K. The new Marantz AV8801 is pretty much that mid-range device, see this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1431914/marantz-av8801-preamp-processor-official-owners-thread

Third-party streamers like AppleTV indeed do UI and features in a much more flexible way, and with HDMI, can deliver good audio quality.

But for truly reference-grade audio, the AVP needs to be a first class Renderer (no UI, just playback) that handles advanced codecs and multichannel content pushed to to it from servers and controllers.
Our current AVP can behave as a Renderer, but it is not fast, and lacks high-bit-rate and multichannel support via FLAC.

So yes, if they focus on top-shelf rendering, audiophiles like me will be satisfied.
Edited by JonFo - 12/25/12 at 7:34am
post #24046 of 25955
Just in case some of you are not familiar with all the DLNA roles, here is a quick summary from this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Living_Network_Alliance

Home Network Devices:
  • Digital Media Server (DMS): These devices store content and make it available to networked digital media players (DMP) and digital media renderers (DMR). Examples include PCs and network-attached storage (NAS) devices.
  • Digital Media Player (DMP): These devices find content on digital media servers (DMS) and provide playback and rendering capabilities. Examples include TVs, stereos and home theaters, wireless monitors and game consoles.
  • Digital Media Renderer (DMR): These devices play content received from a digital media controller (DMC), which will find content from a digital media server (DMS). Examples include TVs, audio/video receivers, video displays and remote speakers for music.
    Note: it is possible for a single device (e.g. TV, A/V receiver, etc.) to function both as a DMR (receives "pushed" content from DMS) and DMP ("pulls" content from DMS)
  • Digital Media Controller (DMC): These devices find content on digital media servers (DMS) and play it on digital media renderers (DMR). Examples include Internet tablets, Wi-Fi enabled digital cameras and personal digital assistants (PDAs).

So if the new AVP were to be a first-class DMR, then one could use a Mobile-based DMC to push content from A DMS (NAS or PC) to the AVP.

I do this today with my current AVP, but only for certain types of content as the AVP (and most receivers) has serious limits here.
post #24047 of 25955
BTW- a decent, simple DLNA controler (DMC) is the Sitecom one: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/sitecom-media-controller/id493000993?mt=8

Let's you pick which sever (DMS) to use, and then which Renderer (DMR) and then you just pick content and send it to the Renderer (the AVP in our case).

Not perfect, for instance it re-sorts your playlists in alpha order, but in general it's pretty good.
post #24048 of 25955
Hi,

We talked about this before, i don't think we will see a followup of the avp from D&M old style. I can see them starting a fresh look at a distributed design as a platform and could see them a making reference parts for it. Keep in mind they started design on the AVP probably in 2005/2006 before the world really started to see small powerful devices we consider normal it was before the iphone, android, tablets and all the other devices that are now transforming our world from a pc based world to a much more mixed and connected world.

They can't make 20 or 30 channels for vector based systems without really cutting the one box idea and going network. This way modules become modular and its a platform design instead of a single box. This is also the only way to be able to put money in for D&M and i hope they started designing something around this because if they are not considering this they will go the way of Sun, Digital, Motorola and all the other brands that got hit with the wave of the future and didn't move to the new model and it would be a pity to see a well known and proud brand get wiped out.

So my wish list is simple : I hope they are working within D&M with all their brands on distributed solution based on IPV6 that allows us to attach input, output and processing boxes from cheap to very highend. I know several brands tried before but as apple has shown timing is everything be to early and you have underpowered gadgets without a problem to solve, be to late and you get crushed by eco-systems driven by the biggest players.

In fact i don't think the audio world is big enough now to do it alone so any R&D should be done as a integration model or in cooperation with the eco-systems out there.

We had a relative 'stable' 5 years thats why the AVP can still be considered state of the art today i doubt the next 10 years will be the same users habits are moving to fast to this new world and they have different expectations of what they expect to work.

Daniel.
post #24049 of 25955
1st post. AVPA1HDCI owner since 2011. Did 3D/Audyssey 32 upgrade and couldnt be happier. Want to play SACD. Very disappointed Denon moved away from DL4 just when my AVP was ready via the update. I have a 3800bdci with no DL or SACD support. Do you guys know if its possible to get DL-HD to DL4? If not is Oppo my best bet and move away from Denon? Forget the jitter thing.

Next question, I have 9.2 setup and was wondering if its possible to add wide speakers to existing heights? Could i use RCA and XLR on same channels? Dont want to eliminate second sub.

Thanks guys it was an excellent read through this forum. I've learned a lot.
post #24050 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

1st post. AVPA1HDCI owner since 2011. Did 3D/Audyssey 32 upgrade and couldnt be happier. Want to play SACD. Very disappointed Denon moved away from DL4 just when my AVP was ready via the update. I have a 3800bdci with no DL or SACD support. Do you guys know if its possible to get DL-HD to DL4? If not is Oppo my best bet and move away from Denon? Forget the jitter thing.
Next question, I have 9.2 setup and was wondering if its possible to add wide speakers to existing heights? Could i use RCA and XLR on same channels? Dont want to eliminate second sub.
Thanks guys it was an excellent read through this forum. I've learned a lot.


You could try denon"s dvd a1ud, totl universal player, or it"s smaller brother 4010 ud, .Stunning excelency a1ud, a bit lesser 4010. You can"t go wrong with either.
post #24051 of 25955
there seem to be a few reliability issues though of late I've noticed wiht the denon/marantz players so although a past owner whom was very happy with the 4010 am not sure one could recommend - the a1ud seems to be showing the odd gremlin too. infact would go as far as saying buyer beware ! given some of the issues have read about. not that there are any options ie DL4. only other players are really the oppo and cambridge and a primare which is also sharing the same oppo/cambridge base. I also dont think any denon/marantz player of current ilk really look anythign like flagship material to partner up with the avp. if its really top notch cd/sacd looking for can suggest any of the marantz SA11 players as they are really top notch. would go well with the avp and could partner up with a cheaper oppo universal for blu-ray or multichannel smile.gif
post #24052 of 25955
We've used the 4010 and an Oppo with the AVP. For just audio, the 4010 is great. But as a BluRay player, it has been slow to respond and quirky to a degree that we use the Oppo for movies. Plus Oppos are readily available in region-free mod forms that work great.
post #24053 of 25955
I think having to buy used Denon Blu Ray to get DL4 is a bad choice. DENON USA removed a bunch of blu ray from the site and added my ancient player the 3800bdci back into the fold. Weird. The A1UDCI gone. Choices now slim. I guess Denon pushes my hand away I think Oppo 105 and is the best choice out there. Even if a A1UDCI were available the $$$ is way off the charts. It does appear to be the best audio/video player out there though. I don't have enough rack space for two players. Need single player for movies and audio. I do want to make the best choice in audio, really want the AVP to shine. ugh and don't want to have to buy another for quite a while. Is Oppo my best choice all around player?

I have 9.2 setup and was wondering if its possible to add wide speakers to existing heights? Could i use RCA and XLR on same channels? Dont want to eliminate second sub.

Do you guys know if its possible to get DL-HD convert to DL4?
post #24054 of 25955
If it were possible to convert DL4 to DLHD then I would be asking questions about the new Denon offerings.
post #24055 of 25955
I believe I can hear the difference between 2ch over DL vs HDMI, but I find it next to impossible to tell the difference between DL & HDMI with SACD when sending DSD. It's possible that's because it's harder to discern differences as channels increase, but who knows...
I also can't tell the difference between 2ch bit-perfect FLAC streamed direct to the AVP over CD via DL either. I have the 4010, and it's a clunky Blu Ray player, but since I also stream my BD rips and only watch new BD's in the player, it's not too tough to put up with.
post #24056 of 25955
Using the XLR CD inputs on AVP from the Oppo 105 sounds very intriguing. Then can switch to DVD HDMI for multichannel. Am I correct in my thoughts?
post #24057 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Using the XLR CD inputs on AVP from the Oppo 105 sounds very intriguing. Then can switch to DVD HDMI for multichannel. Am I correct in my thoughts?

Sure, that is a good way to use it. I also have a '105 hooked up to my AVP. Lately, I've just been using HDMI for all sources/channels. Although XLR is indeed very very good.
post #24058 of 25955
[quote name="dahlgren" url="/t/1006957/official-denon-avp-a1hd-avp-a1hdci-and-poa-a1hd-poa-a1hdci-owners-thread/24030#post_22749205"
I have 9.2 setup and was wondering if its possible to add wide speakers to existing heights? Could i use RCA and XLR on same channels? Dont want to eliminate second sub.
[/quote]

The AVP is not an 11.x pre-amp. You can use front heights OR wides as far as I know. This is also coming from the same outputs - after the upgrade - which were the surround B outputs. I think you can use the RCAs and XLRs simultaneously.

This is one of the 'limitations' of an 'older' unit. However, I don't bother because I couldn't physically put wides in my room. Well, but others can...
post #24059 of 25955
^^ Correct. The AVP is 9.3, i.e. front height OR wides, never both. Three subs, no problem.
post #24060 of 25955
Is there an upgrade to the dvd a1udci to play 3D Blu Ray?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread.