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Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 803

post #24061 of 25965
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Edited by dahlgren - 12/28/12 at 7:44pm
post #24062 of 25965
Sorry for the double post. For DL4 can you use a CAT6 cable instead of the expensive Denon cable without any difference?
post #24063 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Sorry for the double post.
It's possible to edit and/or delete posts - use the edit (pencil icon) / delete (red X icon) icons at the bottom left of the post text.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Is there an upgrade to the dvd a1udci to play 3D Blu Ray?
No there isn't (the hardware most likely won't support 3D), but questions about the player might get more attention in the thread for the player - here.
post #24064 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

^^ Correct. The AVP is 9.3, i.e. front height OR wides, never both. Three subs, no problem.

Sorry that I didn't write that in numbers. But isn't this just amazing for an AV-Pre to have 9.3 in 2008?
And three sub out! The longer I have this unit, the better I understand how amazing this Denon unit is.

I also want to express my deepest gratitude to the people at Denon who designed, developed and built this unit - remembering Danielo's post. I just would like to add my personal thank you for you guys!

Also, my personal opinion about the artificially generated channels - wides and heights from DSX or Neo:X - is not the best up to now.

However, I have tested this using an Onkyo/Integra Pre and this is a different league - compared to the AVP A1. May be after my still pending upgrade, I will have a different opinion.

But can somebody here write something about their impressions about the height or wide channels and may be also about the Expendables 2? I read that this disk is Neo:X encoded - muxed channels. What is the upgraded AVP making out of it and is it worth it?

My copy is still in the mail, it's a long way from Amazon US to Europe if you don't pay premium postage.rolleyes.gif
post #24065 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Sorry for the double post. For DL4 can you use a CAT6 cable instead of the expensive Denon cable without any difference?

You could use old Cat5 if you wanted to.
post #24066 of 25965
Thats great news
post #24067 of 25965
Looking hard for a blu ray SACD player with XLR, best video and audio plus able to connect to network and play burned flak files DSD etc... Looking at Oppo 105 and Marantz UD7007. Headphones nice and USB DAC direct access on Oppo nice but not needed. I want to pick the best player based s on audio 1st but video DAC very important to. Love to have 32bit DAC's all around like DVD-A1UD, but as i read the forums this player is having issues playing some discs and won't play flac. If anyone can assist in my decision it would be great. I chose the 105 for its better sound quality vs the 103. Seems coincidental the prices are identical. Maybe Marantz since missing features of the 105 built in better quality sound and video.
post #24068 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Looking hard for a blu ray SACD player with XLR, best video and audio plus able to connect to network and play burned flak files DSD etc... Looking at Oppo 105 and Marantz UD7007. Headphones nice and USB DAC direct access on Oppo nice but not needed. I want to pick the best player based s on audio 1st but video DAC very important to. Love to have 32bit DAC's all around like DVD-A1UD, but as i read the forums this player is having issues playing some discs and won't play flac. If anyone can assist in my decision it would be great. I chose the 105 for its better sound quality vs the 103. Seems coincidental the prices are identical. Maybe Marantz since missing features of the 105 built in better quality sound and video.


As far as the flac play ability of a1ud , i can assure you that it"s there.If you burn a flac file on a cd it will read it and play it back outputing the bitstream through the digital output.Well, at least, mine does.
post #24069 of 25965
Thx jomark, Do you have problems reading discs like others I read on the A1UD forum? Also in your opinion would you purchase a used player? Dont think these are available new any longer, couldn't afford a new price anyway. My 3800bdci fails to play some blu ray discs, the player is only a year old.
post #24070 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

Sorry that I didn't write that in numbers. But isn't this just amazing for an AV-Pre to have 9.3 in 2008?
And three sub out! The longer I have this unit, the better I understand how amazing this Denon unit is.

As amazing as it is for a 2008 model i have to wonder why they didn't support 11.1. Keeping 1 sub channel instead of 3 as far as i know all 12 channels are designed the same way so why not ? I tried to reroute that way but didn't work (as we all found out) but i keep wonderring why. Anyone have a idea what stopped them (maybe i am missing something simple) going all the way and support 11.1 ?

Daniel.
post #24071 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Thx jomark, Do you have problems reading discs like others I read on the A1UD forum? Also in your opinion would you purchase a used player? Dont think these are available new any longer, couldn't afford a new price anyway. My 3800bdci fails to play some blu ray discs, the player is only a year old.

Keep in mind that all players have a limited amount of hours they play before they fail (MTBF) on denon units the OPU (Optical Pickup Unit) are rated for about 2000hours in the past. Replacing the OPU for them is around $150/$200.

Daniel.
post #24072 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

As amazing as it is for a 2008 model i have to wonder why they didn't support 11.1. Keeping 1 sub channel instead of 3 as far as i know all 12 channels are designed the same way so why not ? I tried to reroute that way but didn't work (as we all found out) but i keep wonderring why. Anyone have a idea what stopped them (maybe i am missing something simple) going all the way and support 11.1 ?
Daniel.

I prefer the 3 channel subwoofer and as far as 11.1 goes for my system 9.3 works the best for my room. For me the AVP will be part of my theatre for quite a long while yet.
post #24073 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I prefer the 3 channel subwoofer and as far as 11.1 goes for my system 9.3 works the best for my room. For me the AVP will be part of my theatre for quite a long while yet.

For sure Franin, its more a technical question i don't fully get why they didn't provide this option. Following other threads i have come to realise that the AVP platform is also more flexible than say the denon 4520 or marantz 8801 in what can be selected/tuned and this would have been almost the ultimate example being able to turn a 2008 model into once that fully supports 11 main speakers.

Many of the things we can reroute, programmable pure-direct modes etc etc seem to have been lost forever with the new platforms inside D&M pity.

Daniel.
post #24074 of 25965
Daniel, I agree to your point of view. At least that could have been an option to realize 11.1 and be par with the latest AVR models.

But for me it's also not an option - as Franin wrote - I don't have the space to install wides and up to now, my listening experience was that I found the additional artificially generated channels not improving the sound. Since I moved higher in the 'food chain' of AV equipment I found that the original sound form the disk gives me the best listening experience.
Since then, I listen without any PLx, DSX or Neo:X. I mean this is really up to your personal taste but the additional processing seems to make the overall sound less precise - at least for mid-range equipment like the Marantz AV7005 or the Onkyo/Integra pre-amps.

I have to check this more thoroughly, but the AVP proved my current experiences somehow wrong. Audyssey XT is also such candidate and I experienced the results with other AV pre's as not very good. This changed with the AVP, where I found XT very good, to my own surprise. This only tells me, I have to test all the possibilities of the AVP in more detail.

Well, you never stop learning smile.gif

Markus
post #24075 of 25965
Looks to me like D&M are putting their R&D $$$ in Marantz. The AV8801 seems to be the 11.1 answer. Unless Denon is coming out with a better AVP. It's $3,599.99 with Audyssey 32 upgradable to PRO. Your thoughts?
post #24076 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Thx jomark, Do you have problems reading discs like others I read on the A1UD forum? Also in your opinion would you purchase a used player? Dont think these are available new any longer, couldn't afford a new price anyway. My 3800bdci fails to play some blu ray discs, the player is only a year old.


No i didn"t have any problems reading discs.The one and only time that it wasn"t reading a sacd, was because of some dust on the laser lens.Never had problems reading bd"s.
As to if you should buy a used one , well depends on what you want to do. If you find one for sale in excellent condition and verified of good usage, yes go on and buy it. Just bare in mind that it might need a lazer optical block some time down the road.
As for it"s sound in audio , it"s a pleasure to listen to.As blu ray player it excells also. A unique machine.











Sorry guys for the OT.
post #24077 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

For DL4 can you use a CAT6 cable instead of the expensive Denon cable without any difference?

Sure, you can even get away with Cat5 for short runs <6', or use Cat6 (w/Shielded tips) for long runs. I use a 25' Cat-6 cable with shielded ends to link my 2930 up to my AVP. Works perfectly and the cable cost about $24.
post #24078 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Looks to me like D&M are putting their R&D $$$ in Marantz. The AV8801 seems to be the 11.1 answer. Unless Denon is coming out with a better AVP. It's $3,599.99 with Audyssey 32 upgradable to PRO. Your thoughts?

As already written here this unit is also in my understanding middle-class - compared to an AVP. But I agree to your POV. It seems the AV8801 is the D&M pre-amp answer to 11.1, developed by Denon as 4520, refined with HDAMs by Marantz and sold as AV8801. May be even developed together - I have no insight there.

I can only agree: The AV8801 is the current top-of-line for the D&M line-up. But no follow-up for the AVP on the horizon.
post #24079 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Looks to me like D&M are putting their R&D $$$ in Marantz. The AV8801 seems to be the 11.1 answer. Unless Denon is coming out with a better AVP. It's $3,599.99 with Audyssey 32 upgradable to PRO. Your thoughts?

As a point of clarification,there is no upgrade required (as there is with the AVP), rather the 8801 is already "Audyssey Pro capable" meaning you can connect an Audyssey Pro Kit (via laptop) to the 8801 and you're good to go (just as is the case with the Marantz SR6007, SR7007, and AV7701 and Denon 2313CI, 3313CI, and 4520CI, all of which are already Audyssey Pro capable).
post #24080 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As a point of clarification,there is no upgrade required (as there is with the AVP), rather the 8801 is already "Audyssey Pro capable" meaning you can connect an Audyssey Pro Kit (via laptop) to the 8801 and you're good to go (just as is the case with the Marantz SR6007, SR7007, and AV7701 and Denon 2313CI, 3313CI, and 4520CI, all of which are already Audyssey Pro capable).

Weirdly the usa models of the AVP (CI) where always audyssey pro capable. It was the non-usa versions lacking that until the upgrade the reason they gave is that europe and asia didn't have a 'support' system for CI in these area's to support it.

btw maybe the upgradable part is the $150 you need to pay for a key ? The same as with all devices ?

Daniel.
post #24081 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

As already written here this unit is also in my understanding middle-class - compared to an AVP. But I agree to your POV. It seems the AV8801 is the D&M pre-amp answer to 11.1, developed by Denon as 4520, refined with HDAMs by Marantz and sold as AV8801. May be even developed together - I have no insight there.
I can only agree: The AV8801 is the current top-of-line for the D&M line-up. But no follow-up for the AVP on the horizon.

The 8801 is based on the 4520, if you search the thread you will find discussions of what is happening as a re-org inside D&M. The result is that any new highend is expected to go to marantz but unlike before all avr's are now also cross-developed (before it was just the players).

Personally i would not be shocked if the AVP will/was a bigger seller, when they considered the smaller AVP (AVP-CIX) they found most of the european and asia markets expected less sales in the $2000-$3000 range since once people go seperates they would are more highend anyway. I was surprised by this feedback and told them the CIX will sell like hotcakes but they probably did market research and i am biased by this forum smile.gif

Still i would love to know how many AVP's and POA's have been made my gut feeling is between 3000-5000 but thats based on nothing smile.gif

Daniel.
post #24082 of 25965
Daniel,

I don't think so. I own an Audyssey Pro-Kit and used it for Marantz and Onkyo and you always have to buy the license. The license is bound to specific hardware and can only be bought by a Installer. In other words, if you sell the hardware, the license goes with the box. You can transfer the license but only before you activated it.
For all these procedures you have to be an installer, which means you have to own the Pro-Kit.
The upgrade for an AVP costs in Germany currently 1399,- Euros. The description by Denon doesn't say, that it will include a Pro-License. And if you see the procedure above, it is highly unlikely. Why throwing money to somebody - US$ 150 - and this somebody has no Pro-Kit and is no installer and doesn't use the license.

I mean, for me, it would be nice tongue.gif

Markus
post #24083 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Still i would love to know how many AVP's and POA's have been made my gut feeling is between 3000-5000 but thats based on nothing smile.gif
Daniel.

This is also something I would like to find out. The serial of mine is 8081500545. If you skip the first 5 digits as being the part number, then I have unit 545. Which is also only a guess. As far as I know, the serial numbers in the US are different form those in Europe and those in Asia - if I am not mistaken.

Yeah, just a guess and would be difficult to find out, who has the highest SN if my assumption would be correct.
post #24084 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Weirdly the usa models of the AVP (CI) where always audyssey pro capable. It was the non-usa versions lacking that until the upgrade the reason they gave is that europe and asia didn't have a 'support' system for CI in these area's to support it.
btw maybe the upgradable part is the $150 you need to pay for a key ? The same as with all devices ?
Daniel.

Nah .. rather just a poor choice of wording .... as noted, a license is required for every unit on which the kit is used. I had to ask when the AVP upgrade first came out as the "wording" used implied the Pro kit was included which of course is not the case.
post #24085 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

This is also something I would like to find out. The serial of mine is 8081500545. If you skip the first 5 digits as being the part number, then I have unit 545. Which is also only a guess. As far as I know, the serial numbers in the US are different form those in Europe and those in Asia - if I am not mistaken.
Yeah, just a guess and would be difficult to find out, who has the highest SN if my assumption would be correct.

Doubt that numbering mine has a 400ish number (both on the avp and poa) and i got one of the first in europe in 2008.

You are correct about the upgrade, i knew that it was always a $150 sepr. thing i just wondered about how they wrote it and tried to explain it smile.gif.

I did the upgrade in Germany btw and it cost 1200 for me, i heard the price went up i guess thats true.

Daniel.
post #24086 of 25965
Hi Daniel

At THE D&M repair shop 'Krickhaus' maybe? This is about 30 minutes away by car from where I live.

I will bring my AVP there when they reopen after the holiday season.

Greetings to Utrecht....

Markus
post #24087 of 25965
AVP and POA are now on then Denon USA discontinued pages at this point. What a great combo Denon put together! Remember the original brochure for these:

http://usa.denon.com/DocumentMaster/US/High_End_Catalog_Lit0611.pdf

Should last us all for many more years. Thanks Denon for these products! SJ
post #24088 of 25965
What is the correct way to connect a blu ray player that has two HDMI out, one audio the other video? Don't want to connect HDMI video to the plasma. Is it possible to connect both to the AVP, assigned to the dvd input? Would be a pain for family to have to change tv inputs.
post #24089 of 25965
Generally a dual HDMI BDP can be configured to pass audio/video via a single HDMI (eg. w/3D AVR) or video to one and audio to the other (ie. w/non-3D AVR). As your AVP has been upgraded to pass 3D video, you should configure it to pass both audio/video over a single HDMI cable.
post #24090 of 25965
Why would you want to do that?
Yes it will be a pain for other members of the family.
If you are refering to a1ud , we"ll talk about it in that thread. If not just use one of the two hdmi"s to avp.


@ dahlgren
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