AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 810

post #24271 of 25153
1/11/13 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Still trying to get the best SQ out of my AVP/UD9004. I recently posted these questions and they went unanswered. I value all your experience and knowledge.

What is LPCM for 2ch and LPCM Multi?

The choices of bitstream, Source Direct off/on50 or 100kHz, AFDM?

Lot to learn. I've read the manual over an over. Some above are unable to be selected when others are selected. Taking all this in...

UD9004 says manual SACD over HDMI audio signals are output at 44.1 kHz 16-bit. Is this normal for blu ray/SACD players?

LPCM is Linear Pulse Code Modulation and means the digital format music is stored. But it is not Dolby or DTS which is different. PCM is the format of CDs and is considered a 'loss-less' format and uses a lot of space.
LPCM Multi is multi-channel PCM. That can be 5.1 or 8 channels. It is also PCM - loss-less. But for Blu-Rays, you shouldn't use this, because they are 'Bit-stream'.

LPCM is not 'encoded' but Dolby Digital or AC3 and DTS are. They are send to the receiver via HDMI as bit-stream, which especially applies to HD sound formats like Dolby Tru HD and DTS HD MA. Bit-stream means, that they are send as they are from the player, there is no processing in the player. The bit-stream is then send into the receiver, decoded according the format used - Dolby or DTS - post-processing applied e.g. PLIIx, Neo:X and send to the Digital-Analog-Converters (DACs) and then send to power amplifiers in analog format.
LPCM goes straight to the DACs - more or less.

'Source direct' means the source is not processed in the AVR. On means this and Off means it can be processed.

50 or 100 kHz - I don't know, it's a frequency but I don't know where it could be related to?

AFDM is used if the AVP should choose the decoding mode e.g. Dolby Digital with EX flag. Read the manual page 50 in mine.

Please correct me somebody, if I am wrong.

Hope it helps...
Edited by Ganymed4 - 1/11/13 at 11:34am
Reply
Reply

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #24272 of 25153
1/11/13 at 10:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

What is LPCM for 2ch and LPCM Multi?
LPCM or Linear Pulse-Code Modulation is simply a method of storing audio information in a digital form. It can be the format used to store a soundtrack on a Bluray or audio file and is also what you get when you decompress a Dolby True HD or DTS HD Master Audio soundtrack. It's the format most processors use internally to process audio (such as applying bass management and room correction).

2ch and Multi just refer to how many channels there are - 2ch meaning stereo content for the front left/right speakers, Multi meaning up to 7.1 content.
Quote:
The choices of bitstream, Source Direct off/on50 or 100kHz, AFDM?
Not sure what your question is here and these items really aren't all related.
Quote:
UD9004 says manual SACD over HDMI audio signals are output at 44.1 kHz 16-bit. Is this normal for blu ray/SACD players?
With the exception of DenonLink (which the Marantz players do not have), Denon and Marantz severely cripple SACD DSD audio when transferring it digitally to the processor. 44.1 KHz / 16-bit audio is what you get on CD's and definitely compromises what SACD DSD is capable of quality wise. The Oppo bluray players (BDP-83, BDP-93, BDP-95, BDP-103, BDP-105) on the other hand can send the DSD stream to your processor or convert it to LPCM at much higher resolution that 44.1 kHz / 16-bit. My recommendation when using a Denon or Marantz player for SACD is to use either DenonLink (if available) or analog audio - anything else is going to give a less than satisfactory result.
Reply
Reply
post #24273 of 25153
1/11/13 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Just curious how many AVP owners have jumped ship to Marantz?

Not me, my AVP will be buried with me smile.gif.
Reply
Reply
post #24274 of 25153
1/11/13 at 12:47pm
"The choices of bitstream, Source Direct off/on50 or 100kHz, AFDM?"

UD9004 has these as options for me to choose. If choosing Source Direct Off or On, if On you have the option of 50kHz or 100kHz. Source Direct meaning direct data from disc with no processing, correct? Why would you limit that via 50 or 100kHx? Manual says 100kHz enables full range playback.

Bitstream another option in the UD9005 to choose the output from the disc to be unchanged, is one better or then how so?

AFDM in the manual says "Automatically set the surround mode by detecting the surround mode identification signal recorded in the disc". This sounds like the prefered method but cannot be selected if Source Direct is on or if "This function is invalid for the DTS-CD source". To have AFDM "ON" "Audio Setup - 7.1 is set and when HDMI - Audio Setup is set to Multi LPCM BM On.

So out of all this I was hoping to know which are the best possible SQ options to set but not have to constantly change setting and go into the setup menu prior to playing Blu Ray, DVD-A, I quit playing DVD movies. SACD I now see that's a whole different story and I'll simply choose the CD input on the AVP using XLR, instead of DVD input for all other disks using HDMI.

Hope I'm making sense.
Edited by dahlgren - 1/11/13 at 12:54pm
Reply
Reply
post #24275 of 25153
1/11/13 at 2:31pm
Seriously, just bitstream everything to the AVP via HDMI and be done with it. You're overthinking things.

All the time you spend typing here you could be listening to music! biggrin.gif
Reply
Reply
post #24276 of 25153
1/11/13 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Seriously, just bitstream everything to the AVP via HDMI and be done with it. You're overthinking things.

All the time you spend typing here you could be listening to music! biggrin.gif

Thanks and I understand. My nature is to understand and with understanding perfect. They give multiple options to listen to the varied discs, if no options were given I would simply put in the disk and hit the play button. You suggest I do that.

I am a Citrix/VMWare engineer. I fix, install, manage hardware and software all day. I analyze everything, understanding how it all fits together is key.

This is my hobbie, a way to relax, enjoy music, im a musician too, i play bass, oh and spend my money. But I must know I'm getting the best out of my $30,000 investment.
Edited by dahlgren - 1/11/13 at 3:34pm
Reply
Reply
post #24277 of 25153
1/11/13 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

"The choices of bitstream, Source Direct off/on50 or 100kHz, AFDM?"

UD9004 has these as options for me to choose. If choosing Source Direct Off or On, if On you have the option of 50kHz or 100kHz. Source Direct meaning direct data from disc with no processing, correct? Why would you limit that via 50 or 100kHx? Manual says 100kHz enables full range playback.

Bitstream another option in the UD9005 to choose the output from the disc to be unchanged, is one better or then how so?

AFDM in the manual says "Automatically set the surround mode by detecting the surround mode identification signal recorded in the disc". This sounds like the prefered method but cannot be selected if Source Direct is on or if "This function is invalid for the DTS-CD source". To have AFDM "ON" "Audio Setup - 7.1 is set and when HDMI - Audio Setup is set to Multi LPCM BM On.

So out of all this I was hoping to know which are the best possible SQ options to set but not have to constantly change setting and go into the setup menu prior to playing Blu Ray, DVD-A, I quit playing DVD movies. SACD I now see that's a whole different story and I'll simply choose the CD input on the AVP using XLR, instead of DVD input for all other disks using HDMI.

Hope I'm making sense.

Somehow. I also work in IT and have a Master of Science in Computer Science but luckily, I am also a sound engineer and made some records in the nineties. However, it is good to ask these questions.
I agree to rnrgagne that you should bit-stream everything. Let the AVP do the decoding and read something - in tests - about how the AVP DACs work. That should give you some idea about what the AVP is capable of. And as somebody who likes to understand everything, I think you will understand the specialty and beauty of this concept Denon choose to realize this.
The AVP is for me something really special. And you can hear this.
If Marantz say use 100 kHz to get the best sound possible - use it. I still don't know what this means - bandwidth in kHz on the HDMI link???
Edited by Ganymed4 - 1/12/13 at 7:01am
Reply
Reply
post #24278 of 25153
1/11/13 at 5:43pm
I'm going to jump in here and try to help...I have the Denon DBP-A100 (same as the DBP-4010) which was the "little brother" of the DVD-A1UDCI...my understanding is the Marantz UD-9004 is almost the same model as the A1UD. All these players have a "crippled" SACD HDMI implementation...they will not bitstream DSD over HDMI (on the Denons you can use Denon Link ONLY for this). With the Marantz 9004 for SACD you'll have to use analog outs or accept the 16/44.1 PCM from HDMI. "Source Direct" on these players (Off, 50 kHz, 100 kHz) is not explained very well in my OM, I found very little info about it online...this much I know...it affects analog ONLY and bypasses bass management in the player, all speaker sizes are large and "yes" is set for subwoofer. In my setup with an AVR-4311, this would result in "double bass" because I run Mch RCA outs to EXT IN and bass management is NOT possible by the 4311....however my understanding is the AVP is one of the very few processors that can do bass management and Audyssey for EXT in. My advice is to leave this "source direct" setting OFF...I tried it set to 50 kHz one night and actually heard a few seconds of horrible digital distortion (this was from the L/R RCA analog out to the 4311) scared the crap out of me, but YMMV with the AVP. 95% of the time I use Denon Link 3/4 so I just forgot about it. (there are warnings "settings outside the frequency band can result in damage to your amplifier and even fire" "set to within the playback frequency band of the amp you will use" in the OM). I advise you to leave this off and forget about it. Use HDMI out to an input on the AVP like DVD, NOT CD, so you can see the onsreen menus of the 9004 when you need to and let your AVP work it's magic. For SACD, use the XLR outs for 2ch SACDs and the Mch RCA analog outs to EXT IN for Mch SACDs to avoid our players' crippled HDMI implementation for SACD. Even though you can't bitstream DSD over HDMI with our units, everything else YOU CAN. For "pure" 2ch playback you could use the XLRs for regular CDs too, but if you're using Audyssey/EQ/Bass Management on the AVP you'd be better off IMO to just go HDMI. Hope this helps.
Reply
Reply
post #24279 of 25153
1/11/13 at 5:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Seriously, just bitstream everything to the AVP via HDMI and be done with it. You're overthinking things.

All the time you spend typing here you could be listening to music! biggrin.gif
The one thing he can't bitstream is SACD's. The Marantz player he has will only send a crippled digital stream out any of the digital outputs, just as the Denon players will if DenonLink isn't used. IMHO, he'd be a lot better off returning the Marantz player and replacing it with an Oppo BDP-103 or BDP-105 as that would allow him to bitstream everything to the AVP - including SACD's.
Reply
Reply
post #24280 of 25153
1/11/13 at 6:05pm
+1
If it wasn't for Denon Link and getting my DBP-A100 at a good discount from an authorized dealer w/5 yr warranty I definitely would have bought an OPPO. If he can still return the Marantz, this is his best option, although I get the feeling he's really into the XLR thing from previous posts...maybe the new OPPO 105 would be the best of both worlds...
Reply
Reply
post #24281 of 25153
1/11/13 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

The one thing he can't bitstream is SACD's. The Marantz player he has will only send a crippled digital stream out any of the digital outputs, just as the Denon players will if DenonLink isn't used. IMHO, he'd be a lot better off returning the Marantz player and replacing it with an Oppo BDP-103 or BDP-105 as that would allow him to bitstream everything to the AVP - including SACD's.

I thought Denon Link was just for jitter.

Thank you very much I need to know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

I'm going to jump in here and try to help...I have the Denon DBP-A100 (same as the DBP-4010) which was the "little brother" of the DVD-A1UDCI...my understanding is the Marantz UD-9004 is almost the same model as the A1UD. All these players have a "crippled" SACD HDMI implementation...they will not bitstream DSD over HDMI (on the Denons you can use Denon Link ONLY for this). With the Marantz 9004 for SACD you'll have to use analog outs or accept the 16/44.1 PCM from HDMI. "Source Direct" on these players (Off, 50 kHz, 100 kHz) is not explained very well in my OM, I found very little info about it online...this much I know...it affects analog ONLY and bypasses bass management in the player, all speaker sizes are large and "yes" is set for subwoofer. In my setup with an AVR-4311, this would result in "double bass" because I run Mch RCA outs to EXT IN and bass management is NOT possible by the 4311....however my understanding is the AVP is one of the very few processors that can do bass management and Audyssey for EXT in. My advice is to leave this "source direct" setting OFF...I tried it set to 50 kHz one night and actually heard a few seconds of horrible digital distortion (this was from the L/R RCA analog out to the 4311) scared the crap out of me, but YMMV with the AVP. 95% of the time I use Denon Link 3/4 so I just forgot about it. (there are warnings "settings outside the frequency band can result in damage to your amplifier and even fire" "set to within the playback frequency band of the amp you will use" in the OM). I advise you to leave this off and forget about it. Use HDMI out to an input on the AVP like DVD, NOT CD, so you can see the onsreen menus of the 9004 when you need to and let your AVP work it's magic. For SACD, use the XLR outs for 2ch SACDs and the Mch RCA analog outs to EXT IN for Mch SACDs to avoid our players' crippled HDMI implementation for SACD. Even though you can't bitstream DSD over HDMI with our units, everything else YOU CAN. For "pure" 2ch playback you could use the XLRs for regular CDs too, but if you're using Audyssey/EQ/Bass Management on the AVP you'd be better off IMO to just go HDMI. Hope this helps.

I'm listening to Dark Side of the Moon, SACD Multi Ch HDMI, bitstream, Source Direct Off. Looking at Audio Input Signal info on the AVP says Multi Ch In, PCM, 44.1kHz, as you said.

The UD9004 has 7.1 analog out that would fix this problem wouldn't it? Problem is the AVP has NO 7.1 analog in. Bummer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

Somehow. I also work in IT and have a Master of Science in Computer Science but luckily, I am also a sound engineer and made some records in the nineties e.g. Minimal Man 'Sxx with god'. However, it is good to ask these questions.
I agree to rnrgagne that you should bit-stream everything. Let the AVP do the decoding and read something - in tests - about how the AVP DACs work. That should give you some idea about what the AVP is capable of. And as somebody who likes to understand everything, I think you will understand the specialty and beauty of this concept Denon choose to realize this.
The AVP is for me something really special. And you can hear this.
If Marantz say use 100 kHz to get the best sound possible - use it. I still don't know what this means - bandwidth in kHz on the HDMI link???

Is there an AVP with 7.1 analog in?
Reply
Reply
post #24282 of 25153
1/11/13 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

I'm going to jump in here and try to help...I have the Denon DBP-A100 (same as the DBP-4010) which was the "little brother" of the DVD-A1UDCI...my understanding is the Marantz UD-9004 is almost the same model as the A1UD. All these players have a "crippled" SACD HDMI implementation...they will not bitstream DSD over HDMI (on the Denons you can use Denon Link ONLY for this). With the Marantz 9004 for SACD you'll have to use analog outs or accept the 16/44.1 PCM from HDMI. "Source Direct" on these players (Off, 50 kHz, 100 kHz) is not explained very well in my OM, I found very little info about it online...this much I know...it affects analog ONLY and bypasses bass management in the player, all speaker sizes are large and "yes" is set for subwoofer. In my setup with an AVR-4311, this would result in "double bass" because I run Mch RCA outs to EXT IN and bass management is NOT possible by the 4311....however my understanding is the AVP is one of the very few processors that can do bass management and Audyssey for EXT in. My advice is to leave this "source direct" setting OFF...I tried it set to 50 kHz one night and actually heard a few seconds of horrible digital distortion (this was from the L/R RCA analog out to the 4311) scared the crap out of me, but YMMV with the AVP. 95% of the time I use Denon Link 3/4 so I just forgot about it. (there are warnings "settings outside the frequency band can result in damage to your amplifier and even fire" "set to within the playback frequency band of the amp you will use" in the OM). I advise you to leave this off and forget about it. Use HDMI out to an input on the AVP like DVD, NOT CD, so you can see the onsreen menus of the 9004 when you need to and let your AVP work it's magic. For SACD, use the XLR outs for 2ch SACDs and the Mch RCA analog outs to EXT IN for Mch SACDs to avoid our players' crippled HDMI implementation for SACD. Even though you can't bitstream DSD over HDMI with our units, everything else YOU CAN. For "pure" 2ch playback you could use the XLRs for regular CDs too, but if you're using Audyssey/EQ/Bass Management on the AVP you'd be better off IMO to just go HDMI. Hope this helps.

I do not understand EXT in. ???

Thank you greatly!
Reply
Reply
post #24283 of 25153
1/11/13 at 7:07pm
7.1 analog in = EXT IN....unless it's labelled differently on the AVP, don't think so. Look on the back of AVP for a set of RCA analog ins that should be labelled EXT IN or maybe PRE IN as a group of 8. Individually they'll be L,R,C,SW,SL,SR,SBL and SBR. This is where you need to connect the Marantz 9004 for Mch SACD. Don't worry about SBL and SBR for SACD for sure, 5.1 will work fine.
Reply
Reply
post #24284 of 25153
1/11/13 at 7:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

7.1 analog in = EXT IN....unless it's labelled differently on the AVP, don't think so. Look on the back of AVP for a set of RCA analog ins that should be labelled EXT IN or maybe PRE IN as a group of 8. Individually they'll be L,R,C,SW,SL,SR,SBL and SBR. This is where you need to connect the Marantz 9004 for Mch SACD. Don't worry about SBL and SBR for SACD for sure, 5.1 will work fine.

Wow! This is the solution where SACD will not be downsampled with HDMI, correct?

No need for Oppo just no Audyssey in analog, correct?

Need to spend more now to do room correction, was going to anyway, and buy Audyssey Pro. Seems like that would really help with no Audyssey.
Reply
Reply
post #24285 of 25153
1/12/13 at 1:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Thanks and I understand. My nature is to understand and with understanding perfect. They give multiple options to listen to the varied discs, if no options were given I would simply put in the disk and hit the play button. You suggest I do that.

I am a Citrix/VMWare engineer. I fix, install, manage hardware and software all day. I analyze everything, understanding how it all fits together is key.

This is my hobbie, a way to relax, enjoy music, im a musician too, i play bass, oh and spend my money. But I must know I'm getting the best out of my $30,000 investment.

My guess is many on this thread are very technical and its fun to try to understand how something works but doing things based on specs alone discounts unknown specs and practical results. For example the whole i want the whole 32bits 'compleet' or even dsd vs pcm has effects that also have their downside and will in the end give a lesser result he was hinting at that in the end its about what sounds best to you.

For example i would probably try analog out of the player in 2 modes :

1) full balanced through the AVP (with loss of EQ)

2) balanced through the AVP but with the extra ADC<>DAC step to be able to use audyssey (so loss of 32bits and dad)

Digital out of the player :

3) over hdmi without DL3/4 (with eq)

4) over hdmi by clock over DL3/DL4 (with eq)

And decide what sounds best and be done with it. Many of us have done this and there are no clear winners for everybody.

Daniel.

PS: Keep in mind that any new format highspeed protocol doesn't go over DL4 anymore they changed it except for SACD (i think?) all now goes over hdmi and only the clock goes over the DL4 cable.
Edited by danielo - 1/12/13 at 1:09am
Reply
Reply
post #24286 of 25153
1/12/13 at 1:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Wow! This is the solution where SACD will not be downsampled with HDMI, correct?

No need for Oppo just no Audyssey in analog, correct?

Need to spend more now to do room correction, was going to anyway, and buy Audyssey Pro. Seems like that would really help with no Audyssey.

If you go analog in you will keep all the bits ......... until you need any digital processing like audyssey it will then do a ADC <> digital work <> DAC at 192khz/24bits again.

On the AVP its in fact not as easy to go 100% analog it can be done (including a basic form off bass management) but it needs multiple steps and you know it works if the AL24, advanced and digitial light go dark.

Daniel.
Reply
Reply
post #24287 of 25153
1/12/13 at 2:02am
going analog personally I preferred my older sony scd-xa9000es sacd player. definitely few options over analog out there too. the marantz sa11 players are absolute beauties too if wanting xlr balanced outputs smile.gif
Reply
Reply
post #24288 of 25153
1/12/13 at 4:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJHT View Post

Normally I have moved our dedicated theaters components to our family room as I have upgraded over the years. Not going to happen with the upgraded AVP/POA. However, I'm seriously considering getting the Marantz to replace my Sunfire TG4 in our Family room..... SJ

SJ if you do that I would be very interested in reading your comparisons between the two.
Reply
Reply
post #24289 of 25153
1/12/13 at 4:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post


I also don't think the Marantz AV8801 can be compared with the AVP.

I believe that too be true but thats me.
Reply
Reply
post #24290 of 25153
1/12/13 at 4:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digione View Post

Not me, my AVP will be buried with me smile.gif.

Lol I like that.
Reply
Reply
post #24291 of 25153
1/12/13 at 5:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

My guess is many on this thread are very technical and its fun to try to understand how something works but doing things based on specs alone discounts unknown specs and practical results. For example the whole i want the whole 32bits 'compleet' or even dsd vs pcm has effects that also have their downside and will in the end give a lesser result he was hinting at that in the end its about what sounds best to you.

For example i would probably try analog out of the player in 2 modes :

1) full balanced through the AVP (with loss of EQ)

2) balanced through the AVP but with the extra ADC<>DAC step to be able to use audyssey (so loss of 32bits and dad)

Digital out of the player :

3) over hdmi without DL3/4 (with eq)

4) over hdmi by clock over DL3/DL4 (with eq)

And decide what sounds best and be done with it. Many of us have done this and there are no clear winners for everybody.

Daniel.

PS: Keep in mind that any new format highspeed protocol doesn't go over DL4 anymore they changed it except for SACD (i think?) all now goes over hdmi and only the clock goes over the DL4 cable.

2) How do I set this in the AVP to get Audyssey? By balanced you mean the EXT- in or 2ch XLR? Or just the 7.1 inputs?
Reply
Reply
post #24292 of 25153
1/12/13 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

2) How do I set this in the AVP to get Audyssey? By balanced you mean the EXT- in or 2ch XLR? Or just the 7.1 inputs?

Both for 2 channel, XLR for the rest 7.1 external

default you can use audyssey on them i think, you can turn DSP or ANALOG in the EXT.SETUP menu.

also check the EQ option Direct mode setting if you want it during direct mode.

Again keep in mind if you use any form (like this) of digital on a analog signal you are back at 192khz/24bits max and introduction a extra ADC<>DAC step imho the avp is nearly transparent but its upto you.

Daniel.
Reply
Reply
post #24293 of 25153
1/12/13 at 7:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post

Thanks and I understand. My nature is to understand and with understanding perfect. They give multiple options to listen to the varied discs, if no options were given I would simply put in the disk and hit the play button. You suggest I do that.

I am a Citrix/VMWare engineer. I fix, install, manage hardware and software all day. I analyze everything, understanding how it all fits together is key.

This is my hobbie, a way to relax, enjoy music, im a musician too, i play bass, oh and spend my money. But I must know I'm getting the best out of my $30,000 investment.

No worries at all, just trying to save you some time and effort, like many in this thread, I've had this unit for years and I'm going off of "been there done that" experience.

I just didn't know about your player's DSD flaw, or mine either, since I have the 4010 and use DL for 2ch & SACD.

My preffered method for 2ch is playing cd's ripped to bit-perfect FLAC off my NAS directly to the AVP using the ethernet connection.


.
Edited by rnrgagne - 1/12/13 at 7:37am
Reply
Reply
post #24294 of 25153
1/12/13 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

imho the avp is nearly transparent.
Daniel.

I have my phono pre-amp connected to the XLR in's and use XT32, I was pleasantly surprised how transparent that process was and that the turntables' character was maintained through the Audyssey process.

But I've done a bit of reading on modern DAC's & ADC's and it's my understanding that you could, in theory, daisy chain that A/D-D/A process more than five times in some cases before there would be any audible degradation.
Reply
Reply
post #24295 of 25153
1/12/13 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

7.1 analog in = EXT IN....unless it's labelled differently on the AVP, don't think so. Look on the back of AVP for a set of RCA analog ins that should be labelled EXT IN or maybe PRE IN as a group of 8. Individually they'll be L,R,C,SW,SL,SR,SBL and SBR. This is where you need to connect the Marantz 9004 for Mch SACD. Don't worry about SBL and SBR for SACD for sure, 5.1 will work fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

If you go analog in you will keep all the bits ......... until you need any digital processing like audyssey it will then do a ADC <> digital work <> DAC at 192khz/24bits again.

On the AVP its in fact not as easy to go 100% analog it can be done (including a basic form off bass management) but it needs multiple steps and you know it works if the AL24, advanced and digitial light go dark.

Daniel.

I must be lame I appologize. I have plugged in the RCA's to EXTin 7.1 but do not know how to get it to play out Multi analog and of coarse don't know how to have Audyssey processing.

I am able to listen to SACD 2ch XLR on CD input fine.

I was thinking on using DVR-1 input for Multi Ch SACD and have the HDMI display video/no audio and the EXTin for audio. I see AVP Input Mode - EXT.IN - Auto, PCM or DTS. AVP - Assign - HDMI.

Is thi correct?

Using DVD input for BluRay.
Reply
Reply
post #24296 of 25153
1/12/13 at 9:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

No worries at all, just trying to save you some time and effort, like many in this thread, I've had this unit for years and I'm going off of "been there done that" experience.

I just didn't know about your player's DSD flaw, or mine either, since I have the 4010 and use DL for 2ch & SACD.

My preffered method for 2ch is playing cd's ripped to bit-perfect FLAC off my NAS directly to the AVP using the ethernet connection.


.

No problem. Everyone here has so much experience it's great. It's not like I can call Denon and Marantz and get this type of education. Thank God for you guys! I'm going from a hodgepodge 5.1 McIntosh MX132 to new speakers Tannoy all around 9.2 oh McIntosh subs are all that remain from the old system.

My next exploration will be FLAC over my network direct to the AVP. Got to get all this SACD stuff working first.
Reply
Reply
post #24297 of 25153
1/12/13 at 9:55am
@ dahlgren
Try this...look for input mode in the AVP's menu (should be with other options like input assign, video, rename, etc.). After selecting input mode, you should see Auto, HDMI, Digital, etc. as options, select EXT IN and I'm hoping this will help you get your MCH SACD over analog happening. Try this at a source where you already have sound/video from the 9004..DVD...hope this helps.
Reply
Reply
post #24298 of 25153
1/12/13 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahlgren View Post


I must be lame I appologize. I have plugged in the RCA's to EXTin 7.1 but do not know how to get it to play out Multi analog and of coarse don't know how to have Audyssey processing.

I am able to listen to SACD 2ch XLR on CD input fine.

I was thinking on using DVR-1 input for Multi Ch SACD and have the HDMI display video/no audio and the EXTin for audio. I see AVP Input Mode - EXT.IN - Auto, PCM or DTS. AVP - Assign - HDMI.

Is thi correct?

Using DVD input for BluRay.

So far it is fine but I think you will run into this switching between SACD and Blu-Ray problem. I don't know the Marantz UD9004 player but in most cases, you only have the choice between bit-stream or analog outputs. Not both at the same time. To activate the analog outputs you have to switch off bit-stream output and the go to the loudspeaker menu, which will then be activated and is for bit-stream output deactivated.
Then you get the analog sound outputs to work. However, each player is different and it may be different with your Marantz.

Good luck

PS: It is a pity, that Denon and Marantz are limiting the SACD output via HDMI. I didn't know this up to now but my Denon 3800 BD can't play SACD.
Reply
Reply
post #24299 of 25153
1/12/13 at 2:06pm
Posted this before and it works great. AVP info screen says: Audio Input Signal - Multi Ch In 7.1 and Signal - Analog. I'm using the EXT-In and HDMI DVR1 on AVP. Using HDMI2 & 7.1 analog out on UD9004. Playing Pink Floyd Dark Side SACD Multi Ch its amazing. Playing 5.1 no enhancements. Wow I love the sound, I'm hearing things I've never heard before, album or CD, and HDMI shows the menu screen from the disc. BTW I purchased the 1st pressing of the record the day it came out, so I go back a bit. Was in a progressive band called Alpha Centauri in the 80's.

Since the info screen doesn't display the bit level or kHz I don't know actually what coming out. Do any of you?

Also this article is a good read comparing the Denon/Marantz Flagship players.

Review I read said "To wrestle full control over the UD9004’s multichannel analogue outputs you’ll need to go to HDMI Setup >Audio Setup and set this to ‘Mute’ before returning to the top Audio Setup menu where the (analogue) 7.1 channel level and distance options then become available. To enable the speaker configuration options (speaker size and crossover frequency) the Source Direct mode needs to be switched from ‘On:50kHz/100kHz’ to ‘Off’. Only now may you fully configure the UD9004 as a standalone source offering 7.1 channels of analogue sound from its RCA/XLR connections and 1080p/60Hz/24Hz digital video over HDMI."
To wrestle full control over the UD9004’s multichannel analogue outputs you’ll need to go to HDMI Setup >Audio Setup and set this to ‘Mute’ before returning to the top Audio Setup menu where the (analogue) 7.1 channel level and distance options then become available. To enable the speaker configuration options (speaker size and crossover frequency) the Source Direct mode needs to be switched from ‘On:50kHz/100kHz’ to ‘Off’. Only now may you fully configure the UD9004 as a standalone source offering 7.1 channels of analogue sound from its RCA/XLR connections and 1080p/60Hz/24Hz digital video over HDMI. http://www.hifinews.co.uk/news/article/marantz-ud9004-pound;5000/7602
Edited by dahlgren - 1/12/13 at 2:55pm
Reply
Reply
post #24300 of 25153
1/12/13 at 6:18pm
I am happy that you could achieve what you wanted and that you 'got the AVP virus' biggrin.gif

Me too and I have to say, I played today a little bit with mine and I understand how much other manufacturers learned from this excellent unit. Just think about how to use the menu and it was done four years ago, the settings. I was used to it, by my Onkyo/Integra Pre-amp - but they acheived it later. It's all just there. Amazing Denon.
I mean shifting the top units of the D&M brand to Marantz is OK but if the best Marantz can do is a 'tuned' 4520, this will be not my playground. I need something better, like the AVP. But I think, that the AVP can last at least five more years. 4k is not a problem with a separate HDMI link directly to the display and I don't think the sound formats won't change this much.
OK 11.1 is coming - it seems, but the problem is the amount of hardware you need - power amps and especially speakers.

For me personally 9.2 with heights will do. It is nice - according to the Expendables 2 BD, I tested - but it is an overkill regarding speakers in a living room. I can't places wides - point. It is also always a trade-off between what your living habits are and the amount of equipment you can put into a given room.

For me 9.2 is ok but 11.2 will never make it. Happy with AVP, because it has the best sound, I know.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Gear mentioned in this thread:

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread.