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Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 820

post #24571 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Just checked and I had a 3 min update.

SubFirm was all that was updated.

What is a SubFirm ?
post #24572 of 25955
Look at Danielo's post a few posts up and you'll note there are several different firmware version names used in addition to the "main" version number most often noted, to include a "sub" firmware version number.
post #24573 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

What is a SubFirm ?

I also don't know. I my case it was also DSPfirm, which is clear to me: 'Digital Signal Processor Firmware'.

Daniel wrote:

'SubFirm
SFPGA firm
VFPGA firm
VPLD firm
VAPLD firm
Realta'

I can only identify FPGA - 'Field Programmable Gate Array' and Realta, which is the Realta T2 video chip. 'S' and 'V' could stand for 'Sound' and 'Video', but this is just a guess. I just 'googled' PLD and this could be, most likely a 'Programmable Logic Device'.

An FPGA is a programmable chip, which can serve many purposes. It could be also programmed as DSP. However, only the developers know exactly what all these chips are doing.
post #24574 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

I also don't know. I my case it was also DSPfirm, which is clear to me: 'Digital Signal Processor Firmware'.

Daniel wrote:

'SubFirm
SFPGA firm
VFPGA firm
VPLD firm
VAPLD firm
Realta'

I can only identify FPGA - 'Field Programmable Gate Array' and Realta, which is the Realta T2 video chip. 'S' and 'V' could stand for 'Sound' and 'Video', but this is just a guess. I just 'googled' PLD and this could be, most likely a 'Programmable Logic Device'.

An FPGA is a programmable chip, which can serve many purposes. It could be also programmed as DSP. However, only the developers know exactly what all these chips are doing.

Thanks Ganymed4. Ive just did the update ( which also showed 3 min ) which was ok. Then re checked and shows latest.
post #24575 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Just checked and I had a 3 min update.

SubFirm was all that was updated.

+1
post #24576 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Look at Danielo's post a few posts up and you'll note there are several different firmware version names used in addition to the "main" version number most often noted, to include a "sub" firmware version number.

If people want i can post the version numbers i now have. but indeed i took care in writing down the names as it updated. I also took a picture of the 71min screen just in case nobody believed me smile.gif

Daniel.
post #24577 of 25955
No worries Daniel .... some men just take a little longer to "upgrade" than others. biggrin.gif
post #24578 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

If people want i can post the version numbers i now have. but indeed i took care in writing down the names as it updated. I also took a picture of the 71min screen just in case nobody believed me smile.gif

Daniel.

Have you brought your AVP to CineMike for the 3D upgrade already and is this the situation now, after the upgrade?

How long ago did you make the last update via Internet?

I am asking, because this could mean, that my guess could be right that different repair shops are using different versions for the update. However, if the AVP does then download the latest updates - as it seems here - everything is fine.

BTW, I also had some problems with 'scratching noise', when I got my got my AVP back from the upgrade. But after I bought a new rack and re-cabled everything, this was gone. And this was only in case I listened to stereo sources. Multi-channel sound was not affected but playing stereo tracks from my network-server at home. This happened when I was using the stereo DSP programm for stereo source, adding the subwoofer. It suddenly started and one channel was not as loud as the other and I could here some distorted sound. When I turned the volume higher it was gone after a short time.
Funny thing, but it vanished and this happened before I updated now but after the 3D upgrade.

Now I am very happy with the sound.
post #24579 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I might have to check, thanks wabo

Gotta give kudos to Denon for the continued support.
post #24580 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

No worries Daniel .... some men just take a little longer to "upgrade" than others. biggrin.gif

Trust me many people have told me i am a slow upgrader smile.gif.

@Gany, it can't be related to the work on the 3d upgrade since i checked for updates many times. the 71min update was new for me and not 'assigned' by denon's server a few weeks ago Maybe its just something simple as that they during the check could not get a correct checksum back and the software decided to reload most modules.

Daniel.
post #24581 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Gotta give kudos to Denon for the continued support.

I agree wabo. Ill check again in another 6-12 months.
post #24582 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I agree wabo. Ill check again in another 6-12 months.

I don't think its weird they still support the AVP. I would make the argument they are supporting the 3D upgrade kit and not the AVP. When they shipped this 3D card they included some money and a expected support level to go with this for say a year maybe 18months. It would be weird to ship a 1200 euro upgrade and not calculate some support in esp. since my guess is most of the work on the software overlaps with the 4520 and 8801.

Consider it extended support on the upgrade not the main unit.

Daniel.
post #24583 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Just checked and I had a 3 min update.

SubFirm was all that was updated.

I finally connected to where it had an update, said 3 min update. It was done before I saw what it was for. I connected from my PC to search and apply the update.

If it was a sub update, does anyone have details?
post #24584 of 25955
As I noted in my post here, the update only applies to allowing a particular BDP to pass a 3D signal.
post #24585 of 25955
I have a quick question- If you are only going to be using the AVP for movies as I have a separate 2 channel system- Is it worth it top upgrade to this unit over the Marantz7005 I currently have- I am running a 7.4 system and wish I had more sub inputs to dial each sub in -
Also since my room has been professionally treated- If I get a used AVP do I need to do the upgrade or is it not necessary in my situation- I run my video directly from my Oppo93 to my SIm 2 PJ now- thanks so much- I just want to know that I am getting the best sound when watching movies my system will give me-
post #24586 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebop86 View Post

I have a quick question- If you are only going to be using the AVP for movies as I have a separate 2 channel system- Is it worth it top upgrade to this unit over the Marantz7005 I currently have- I am running a 7.4 system and wish I had more sub inputs to dial each sub in -
Also since my room has been professionally treated- If I get a used AVP do I need to do the upgrade or is it not necessary in my situation- I run my video directly from my Oppo93 to my SIm 2 PJ now- thanks so much- I just want to know that I am getting the best sound when watching movies my system will give me-

Your room is professionally treated then there is no need for upgrade. Though one question, does the Marantz have Audyssey XT32? That is definitely one feature you need if you already have it then as I said there is no need for upgrade.
post #24587 of 25955
thanks it has Audyssey's MultEQ XT- when you say I do not need an upgrade- do you mean that the AVP will not sound better than my 7005 or I do not need the AVP upgrade- thanks
post #24588 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebop86 View Post

thanks it has Audyssey's MultEQ XT- when you say I do not need an upgrade- do you mean that the AVP will not sound better than my 7005 or I do not need the AVP upgrade- thanks

Sorry I was under the impression that the Marantz had the XT32. if you do purchase the AVP get the upgrade done ASAP for the XT32. If you dont do the upgrade on the AVP then hang onto your Marantz.
post #24589 of 25955
Franin- thnaks- what does the XT32 add to the system-So you feel that the marantz sound wise will be equal to that of the AVP aside of the XT32??
post #24590 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebop86 View Post

Franin- thnaks- what does the XT32 add to the system-So you feel that the marantz sound wise will be equal to that of the AVP aside of the XT32??

It does a much better job than the XT. If you go the Audyssey site it actually explains in more detail the difference between the XT and the XT32. But you will be very happy with the XT32, many here in this forum swear by it and because your room is treated it will work very well.

Too be honest once your room is treated most pre amps sound the same esp for movie watching. The difference these days is features that seperate them. For intance the new Marantz does 11.2, if you need that feature, go for it. The AVP upgraded offers 9.3 you can choose between Height or Wides. Unfortunaley my room cannot accomodate wides so I use heights.
post #24591 of 25955
One more thing if you do decide to go for the AVP you will have to be quick as the upgrade kits will soon be no more.
post #24592 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by bebop86 View Post

Franin- thnaks- what does the XT32 add to the system-So you feel that the marantz sound wise will be equal to that of the AVP aside of the XT32??

post #24593 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post


There you go. Thanks jdsmoothie
post #24594 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

There you go. Thanks jdsmoothie

No question the XT32 upgrade just for subs alone is worth every penny.
post #24595 of 25955
Just for clarification, it's the "Sub EQ HT" function that is EQ'ing two (or more subs) prior to XT32 doing its thing. Currently all AVRs that feature XT32 (except the Onkyo 818 and the 3D/XT32 Upgrade) also feature Sub EQ HT which is why EQ of dual subs is often discussed synonymously with XT32.
Edited by jdsmoothie - 3/3/13 at 4:34pm
post #24596 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Just for clarification, it's the "Sub EQ HT" function that comes with the XT32/3D upgrade that is EQ'ing two (or more subs) prior to XT32 doing its thing. Currently all AVRs that feature XT32 (except the Onkyo 818) also feature Sub EQ HT which is why EQ of dual subs is often discussed synonymously with XT32.

Well, well, sorry to interfere here. Please read what Chris Kyriakakis said to this, when I asked him:

'Chris Kyriakakis, Jan 14 02:20 pm (PST):
Hi Markus,
The subwoofer path in each product may see a different gain in the preamp and so the level setting will be different.
If the AVR has SubEQ HT then it will measure each sub individually once and then treat them as "one" sub after that and measure them together. The 3D upgrade in the AVP-A1 did not include this feature.
Onkyo has decided to remove the polarity warnings from their interface.
Best regards,
Chris Kyriakakis
Founder and CTO, Audyssey'
post #24597 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

Well, well, sorry to interfere here. Please read what Chris Kyriakakis said to this, when I asked him:

'Chris Kyriakakis, Jan 14 02:20 pm (PST):
Hi Markus,
The subwoofer path in each product may see a different gain in the preamp and so the level setting will be different.
If the AVR has SubEQ HT then it will measure each sub individually once and then treat them as "one" sub after that and measure them together. The 3D upgrade in the AVP-A1 did not include this feature.
Onkyo has decided to remove the polarity warnings from their interface.
Best regards,
Chris Kyriakakis
Founder and CTO, Audyssey'

So that means no SubEQ HT in the AVP 3D upgrade? What does that mean in practical terms for those using 2/3 subs?
post #24598 of 25955
Well nothing, in my understanding. I just searched the Audyssey pages and could not find anything about SubEQ HT. I mean, I also know this term, however couldn't find any information, but keep searching.
The big difference between Audyssey XT and XT 32 is the number of filters or points, where filters can be placed and this is in the AVP-A1 HD 3D Edition.

I had the Onkyo 5509 pre-amp and this unit has SubEQ HT. I also own an Audyssey Pro-Kit and I was very surprised, that only in the first measurement cycle, both subwoofers are measured independently. All subsequent cycles they are measured together - as Chris wrote, I mean, he should know...cool.gif
I am also a sound engineer and from this point of view, I had some 'bad feeling in my stomach' that measuring both together, gives you the right measurements. I don't know, you need access to the measurements and listen to them in the same room and set-up to find out about the differences - at least that's what I would think.
Personally, I am more happy with the individual measurement and I can fully understand, why Denon has decided against using SubEQ HT. But I can understand, that the combined measurement can also have it's advantages. But I don't see big differences.

I found this, also from Chris:

'MultEQ XT32 is the flagship version of our technology to measure and correct room acoustical problems. Sub EQ HT is a method we came up with to deal with multiple subs. If you only have one sub then it's not in use. The idea is to first measure each sub separately, then apply delay and level settings so that the two subs are now time and level aligned. Then we ping them once more as "one" sub to derive the room correction filter. I am pretty sure that the 70.3 is using this.
February 06, 2012 01:01 pm'

and this

'So far only AVRs with XT32 have incorporated Sub EQ HT, but it's not a requirement. Any AVR maker that wants to add the Sub EQ HT functionality can do it.
February 07, 2012 12:55 pm'

from here: https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/20953442-subeq-ht-vs-multeq-xt32

So, in my understanding it is 'one' or 'a' method to deal with multiple subs. Chris doesn't write what is better about it. Personally - as already stated - I prefer the method to measure them individually. The best thing would be to have a choice between both methods and then compare the results by listening in your room. But this is not exactly 'Audyssey style'.

In my understanding, the biggest difference in both measuring methods is interference when using more than one sub. The individual measurement sets one sub by one but it never measures them together to check for possible interference and the combined measurement is closer to the real listening experience. Usually they are both used simultaneously and this is quite important in the low frequencies. You may remember the different set-ups for subs, one in front, one in the back etc.

But I have some doubts, if this is really a big advantage over the individual measurement. But that's not more than a feeling.
Edited by Ganymed4 - 3/3/13 at 1:39pm
post #24599 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

Well, well, sorry to interfere here. Please read what Chris Kyriakakis said to this, when I asked him:

'Chris Kyriakakis, Jan 14 02:20 pm (PST):
Hi Markus,
The subwoofer path in each product may see a different gain in the preamp and so the level setting will be different.
If the AVR has SubEQ HT then it will measure each sub individually once and then treat them as "one" sub after that and measure them together. The 3D upgrade in the AVP-A1 did not include this feature.
Onkyo has decided to remove the polarity warnings from their interface.
Best regards,
Chris Kyriakakis
Founder and CTO, Audyssey'

Hmmm .. so then based on the Upgrade manual note below, the AVP level matches and EQ's each sub separately.


Edited by jdsmoothie - 3/3/13 at 6:19pm
post #24600 of 25955
Well the manual is correct. Before you start the real measurement, you have to level all subs individually to 75 dB. Afterwards each sub is measured individually, a test tone comes from each of them - one after the other.
This is not the case with SubEQ HT. After the first measurement the test tone is sent to both subs or three subs simultaneously and they are measured together. This is not the case for the AVP-A1HD 3D Edition.

I have also attached, the different measurement results from Audyssey Pro with the same subs, same place, only changed the prepro - Onkyo 5509 vs Denon. Please judge yourself.



Onkyo - that are in fact two subs. Black frame is before, red frame after.



Denon AVP-A1HD 3D Edition

PS: Curves are 'beautified' as Chris states.
Edited by Ganymed4 - 3/3/13 at 3:33pm
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