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Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 822

post #24631 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

I know transducers only from a friend, who is using them together with a Marantz 7005. They are working well but can not replace a real LFE bass. It just 'kicks your butt' when there should be very low bass. This works, is a nice effect but I don't see it as a substitute for a really strong subwoofer or subwoofers. For the AVP I don't have any experience. Have you tried Dynamic Volume from Audyssey? I never used it, but it is said, it should do the same trick as the Night Listening Mode of the AVP.

Yeah, I've played around with Dynamic Volume. On the Eve/Midnight settings, there is often an annoying pumping of the volume (voices, usually) right before/after big dynamic swings. I'll learn to live with Day, or Off.

Doing some more reading on transducers, I think I'll pass. Seems tricky to integrate, and I'm actually not sure I'd even like the effect.

Maybe I'll just be really happy with the Seaton SubM and won't need to fret about anything else smile.gif
post #24632 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digione View Post

Just spoke with Denon engineering here in Mahwah NJ. There is nothing listed internally for an update for 3D upgraded models. The only short update that is available is the SACD LF fix from 2012. Maybe it was not included in the upgrade eek.gif

That SACD upgrade was to fix:

When playing SACD using Denon-Link, volume of bass (from subwoofer output) is very low.

When SACD is played, the output power level decreases because of operating of the Down Mix.

When 2ch signal of SACD is played, the output level decreases 3dB by the operation of the PLIIx / PLIIz

I just noticed that the above list includes PLIIz. That wasn't available on the non upgraded AVP was it, so I wonder if they have had to re-release the patch??


Does anyone know if the firmware updates for the Upgraded units have included a fix for the "When playing SACD using Denon-Link, volume of bass (from subwoofer output) is very low" problem?
post #24633 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digione View Post

Chris at Audyssey warned me about this issue some time ago and advised me to keep my external Audyssey Sub EQ, which runs XT32, driven by one sub output from the AVP. So I manage to get the best of both worlds by first equalising my two subs with the Audyssey SubEQ then running the XT32 in the AVP using Pro. The double DAC conversion was not to be considered relevant or audable by Chris so I have never changed the setup. I suppose the combined XT32 + XT32 gives me XT64 biggrin.gif and according to my measuremsnt is ruler flat to about 15Hz.

That is interesting. I have been happily running my upgraded AVP straight into a pair of SubMersive HP's for close to a year now. But I also still have my AS EQ1 which I decided not to sell since they don't make them anymore. When I get a chance, I think I'll hook it up like you have described and see if I can hear any difference between the SubEQ setup the Denon non-SubEQ setup .
post #24634 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Picasso Moon View Post

That is interesting. I have been happily running my upgraded AVP straight into a pair of SubMersive HP's for close to a year now. But I also still have my AS EQ1 which I decided not to sell since they don't make them anymore. When I get a chance, I think I'll hook it up like you have described and see if I can hear any difference between the SubEQ setup the Denon non-SubEQ setup .

I would be interested in hearing about your results. I too had an AS EQ-1. I sold it (to pay for my AVP upgrade smile.gif ) because at the time I thought it was superfluous alongside XT32.
post #24635 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-Res View Post

Does anyone know if the firmware updates for the Upgraded units have included a fix for the "When playing SACD using Denon-Link, volume of bass (from subwoofer output) is very low" problem?

This update for the AVP was released in early 2012 and fixed the low LF problem with DSD SACD over DL. The update was included in the latest 3D upgrade, so if you did the upgrade you should be OK. If you didn't do the upgrade run the firmware upgrade and it should be downloaded as it is still listed as an available update on the Japanese website.
post #24636 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

^^
Sounds similar to my issue. It is a very low frequency. I can hear it above everything else. It is like the sub is too loud but even if I cut if way back, I still hear the thump. It is very isolated or limited frequency. Almost like someone is banging on the wall or running up the stairs. It doesn't last long and it isn't throughout the listening session. It is limited to certain records and even certain songs on the record.
I too thought maybe it was turntable rumble but it is a Rega P9 mounted on a rigid wooden shelf and my experience with rumble would be something that was always present, especially noticeable during quiet passages. This is actually only noticeable when music is playing. I am running it through a Fosgate Signature all-tube phono stage into my AVP. It is confined to my vinyl setup: I don't hear it at all with any other sources. The subs are matching Infinity Prelude MTS subs.

Maybe it is in the tubes............I can always switch it out with the one built into the AVP and see if I can isolate it. Just haven't had the time to play around with it yet.

What you describe is very similar to what I had. The VLF thump/rumble would only appear on certain tracks and records and was repeatable for the given track/record. I would be very suprised if it was the tubes. The addition of the sub-sonic filter certainly fixed it for me. I use a Thorens TD160S turntable with a Hadcock 228 arm and Entre 1 moving coil cartridge, and using my "old" CBS test record there is no decernable rumble from my turntable at "normal" listening level without the sub sonic filter; I am using a pair of SVS PB12 NSD subs.
post #24637 of 25955
^^

Can you recommend some (subsonic filters)? What brand and model are you using?
post #24638 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

^^

Can you recommend some (subsonic filters)? What brand and model are you using?

I did my original tests using a spare Velodyne SMS-1 (with the 5HZ software) driving the line input to my external Audyssey SUB EQ, I then built my own analog unit that I could bypass due to the SMS inherent delay, similar to half of this : http://sound.westhost.com/project99.htm

I tried doing it at the ouput of the head amp but it added too much noise due to the low signal levels and it severely impacted the overall sound quality.

I am not too sure if you can actually buy a stand alone ready made subsonic filter these days. They are usually found as part of a pre-amp or head-amp.
post #24639 of 25955
^^
Hmmmm.................I am not experienced enough to roll my own.

Now that I think about it, I am wondering if maybe I could use the sub's built-in equalizer to handle this? My subs have the INFINITY RABOS system built into them but I have defeated them because Chris at Audyssey suggested it might be redundant to use them in addition to the Auyssey system. Not sure it will work as a filter but I don't remember having this issue until the past year or so but I also don't remember when I defeated the rabos eqs on the subs.
post #24640 of 25955
I think I am going to try to get the built-in eq activated again. In looking at my old graphs from many years ago, there is a huge db dip in the higher frequencies which I think means the lower frequencies would be boosted too much. I think the idea is to get a fairly flat response and what I see is nothing near flat - the lower frequencies are much higher db than the higher freqs. Not sure if Audyssey would be able to handle this much deviation especially with 2 separate subs.
post #24641 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digione View Post

This update for the AVP was released in early 2012 and fixed the low LF problem with DSD SACD over DL. The update was included in the latest 3D upgrade, so if you did the upgrade you should be OK. If you didn't do the upgrade run the firmware upgrade and it should be downloaded as it is still listed as an available update on the Japanese website.

I did do the 3D upgrade, and I have downloaded the latest firmware (including the recent 3 minute update) but it seems to me that the problem was not corrected. When I play an SACD using Denon Link, I need to adjust the subwoofer volume to a higher level than when playing DVD-Audio. Do others that have upgraded units notice this difference?
post #24642 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi-Res View Post

I did do the 3D upgrade, and I have downloaded the latest firmware (including the recent 3 minute update) but it seems to me that the problem was not corrected. When I play an SACD using Denon Link, I need to adjust the subwoofer volume to a higher level than when playing DVD-Audio. Do others that have upgraded units notice this difference?
It was definitely fixed and on my unit still is. I am not too sure that comparing SACD's over DL to DVDA's over DL in a reasonable comparison due to different mixes etc. You might want to get an SACD that has both a DSD and PCM stereo mix on it and compare the PCM stereo mix to the SACD stereo mix over DL from the same disc. Even this may not be a fair comparison unless the SACD mix was derived from the PCM mix, or vice versa.

My reference SACD disc to check this was Dire Straits - Money for Nothing. Before the fix the bass was really weak and I like others needed a 10dB boast to make the disc sound correct. That is no longer necessary since the fix, now plenty of bass biggrin.gif
Edited by Digione - 3/5/13 at 5:21pm
post #24643 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

I think I am going to try to get the built-in eq activated again. In looking at my old graphs from many years ago, there is a huge db dip in the higher frequencies which I think means the lower frequencies would be boosted too much. I think the idea is to get a fairly flat response and what I see is nothing near flat - the lower frequencies are much higher db than the higher freqs. Not sure if Audyssey would be able to handle this much deviation especially with 2 separate subs.

Well I think it can to a certain extent - +/- 12 dB. As you can see on the AVP yourself, Audyssey does not produce a really flat curve, If there are too many extremes, it tries to set the frequency curve 'as flat as possible' but doesn't do too much - at least XT32. I mean, just try it. Your ears and what you hear in your room is the benchmark.

Unfortunately the AVP doesn't have a HPF for the subwoofer. Some AVRs have. Personally I never missed it with HDMI but I believe it can be an issue with analog sources, esp. turntables.
post #24644 of 25955
I have attempted to review the upgrade instructions contained on the CD (My God for $1,000.00 they can't provided an updated "book")?, and I can't find whether or not the S-VHS inputs have been rendered useless. What am I missing?

Are the S-VHS inputs inoperable?
Edited by mikey mo - 3/5/13 at 8:46pm
post #24645 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey mo View Post

I have attempted to reveiw the upgrade instructions contained on the CD (My God for $1,000.00 they can't provided an updated "book"), and I can't find whether or not the S-VHS imputs have been rendered useless. What am I missing?

Are the S-VHS imputs inoperable?

You mean the S-video inputs? Why would they be disabled?
post #24646 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

You mean the S-video inputs? Why would they be disabled?

Good Question. I can't get them to work. I can feed the 2 channel audio through the 2 channel stereo inputs located with the XLR inputs. But that is obviously not what they are for. I should be able to use the RCA audio inputs located below their respective S-VHS connector. I know S-VHSi on the way out as further evidenced by the new OPPO players being built w/o analog outputs.

Monoprice markets a very good S-VHS to HDMI converter which I use on an older TV, so all is not lost. But I would like to use the S-VHS inputs on the back of the A1, but I can't find a way to "turn them on".

Go ahead and try it Sam, and post how you did it.
post #24647 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey mo View Post

I know S-VHSi on the way out as further evidenced by the new OPPO players being built w/o analog outputs.

It was not at all Oppo's choice to no longer have them, they can't have analog video outputs anymore. The reason Oppo, along with other brands of new blu-ray players no longer have a analog video output, is strictly due to the newer blu-ray licensing rules that now forbid them from being on all new blu-ray players that recently tool effect. Do a google search for "analog sunset" if you want more info about it.
post #24648 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

It was not at all Oppo's choice to no longer have them, they can't have analog video outputs anymore. The reason Oppo, along with other brands of new blu-ray players no longer have a analog video output, is strictly due to the newer blu-ray licensing rules that now forbid them from being on all new blu-ray players that recently tool effect. Do a google search for "analog sunset" if you want more info about it.

I had read all about what you say, but I still don't know why my S-Video inputs (video and audio) don't work. I have to think it was the upgrade.

I'm hoping somebody with the upgrade will tell me I'm wrong.
post #24649 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey mo View Post

I have attempted to review the upgrade instructions contained on the CD (My God for $1,000.00 they can't provided an updated "book")?, and I can't find whether or not the S-VHS inputs have been rendered useless. What am I missing?

Are the S-VHS inputs inoperable?

Interesting you should bring this up. I am also unable to get any of the S-VHS inputs to scale or feed to the main HDMI monitor outputs 1 or 2 . They drive the composite monitor out but as I said not the main HDMI1 or 2 out. This applies whether I apply up conversion or not or turn the scaler on or off. The manual mentions something about non-standard Y/C inputs not driving the HDMI outputs but if that was the case why does the composite monitor out work?

Can anybody else confirm if their Y/C inputs scale to the HDMI outs. If not its yet another call to Denon Engineering.

NB All my stereo analog audio and composite inputs work.
Edited by Digione - 3/6/13 at 5:37pm
post #24650 of 25955
I would love to confirm this but I don't have any analog output devices. Sorry.

But according to the manual the AVP can convert all lower resolution inputs to HDMI - VBS RCA - you mean this with Y/C(?) - and S-VHS. I also have no idea what a non-standard Y/C input shall be? Can you please help. Thanks
post #24651 of 25955
I can check later this evening.
post #24652 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

I would love to confirm this but I don't have any analog output devices. Sorry.

But according to the manual the AVP can convert all lower resolution inputs to HDMI - VBS RCA - you mean this with Y/C(?) - and S-VHS. I also have no idea what a non-standard Y/C input shall be? Can you please help. Thanks

Yes you are correct the manual clearly shows that any input HDMI,component, composite video or Y/C (S-VHS) can be upconverted and output over the HDMI monitor connections, see page 9 in the manual for the main zone. On the same page in notes, last bullet, that under some circumstances the conversion may not work. This issue is also brought up on page 46 in the Note regarding Video Convert.

I would have thought that these notes would only apply to some strange non-broadcast line and frame rates that the hardware had not been designed to accept, not a Y/C SD 480I signal.

Heres hoping somebody can get the Y/C inputs to work. If you do please let us all know what you did to enable them. smile.gif
post #24653 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digione View Post

Yes you are correct the manual clearly shows that any input HDMI,component, composite video or Y/C (S-VHS) can be upconverted and output over the HDMI monitor connections, see page 9 in the manual for the main zone. On the same page in notes, last bullet, that under some circumstances the conversion may not work. This issue is also brought up on page 46 in the Note regarding Video Convert.

I would have thought that these notes would only apply to some strange non-broadcast line and frame rates that the hardware had not been designed to accept, not a Y/C SD 480I signal.

Heres hoping somebody can get the Y/C inputs to work. If you do please let us all know what you did to enable them[]/b]. smile.gif

I literally just tried S-video on both front and rear inputs on my upgraded AVP, and they work just fine. I initially had a bit of trouble, even after making the requisite A to H video conversion, but then I cycled through the inputs and got a picture.

If you're certain you have the proper parameters set up to accept S-video, including disassociating HDMI with that input, then cycle through some inputs, or even turn the AVP on/off.
post #24654 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I literally just tried S-video on both front and rear inputs on my upgraded AVP, and they work just fine. I initially had a bit of trouble, even after making the requisite A to H video conversion, but then I cycled through the inputs and got a picture.

If you're certain you have the proper parameters set up to accept S-video, including disassociating HDMI with that input, then cycle through some inputs, or even turn the AVP on/off.

Great news, I now have tonights homework, besides replacing my new projectors bulb that failed with only 57 hours on it, but still in warranty.

When you say "proper parameters" can you be any more specific, I understand disassociating HDMI and setting A to H.
Edited by Digione - 3/7/13 at 7:13am
post #24655 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digione View Post



When you say "proper parameters" can you be any more specific, I understand disassociating HDMI and setting A to H.

I'd have to go by memory now, but you're on the right track. I normally don't use analog video inputs, but of course you have to configure those parameters involving I/P conversion, etc. Make sure your source is outputting s-video ( you may have to unplug HDMI if you're testing from a cable box, like I did).
post #24656 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I'd have to go by memory now, but you're on the right track. I normally don't use analog video inputs, but of course you have to configure those parameters involving I/P conversion, etc. Make sure your source is outputting s-video ( you may have to unplug HDMI if you're testing from a cable box, like I did).

I hate to admit, but I still cannot get the S-VHS inputs to work. Let me ask you two questions, and I will go from there.

1. Which S-VHS inputs on the back did you connect your S-VHS cable to. In other words, how were they labeled on the back?
2. Which input did you select with the selector swich, ie, sat, dvd, dvr-1,dvr-2, etc.?

Thanks a lot.
post #24657 of 25955
post #24658 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey mo View Post

I hate to admit, but I still cannot get the S-VHS inputs to work. Let me ask you two questions, and I will go from there.

1. Which S-VHS inputs on the back did you connect your S-VHS cable to. In other words, how were they labeled on the back?
2. Which input did you select with the selector swich, ie, sat, dvd, dvr-1,dvr-2, etc.?

Thanks a lot.

S-video not S-VHS

I tried the DVD, TV/CBL and front Aux S-Video inputs, as labeled on the front/rear panel. Mine are renamed, so it doesn't matter what the input selector says (i.e. whatever I renamed them), just that they corresponded to those three inputs on the back.

Did you try regular composite inputs?
post #24659 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

S-video not S-VHS

I tried the DVD, TV/CBL and front Aux S-Video inputs, as labeled on the front/rear panel. Mine are renamed, so it doesn't matter what the input selector says (i.e. whatever I renamed them), just that they corresponded to those three inputs on the back.

Did you try regular composite inputs?

Y/C or S-Video, either way I cannot get the two I have tried to drive the HDMI monitor outputs either. I understood that once you selected HDMI to NONE that the AVP automatically detected whether an analog signal was present on either the composite or Y/C inputs. If this is not the case what else do I need to do to tell the AVP to "look at" the analog video inputs?

As the Y/C inputs when selected appear on the composite monitor out, why do they not appear on the HDMI monitor out, as I get the menu but no source video signal?

Looks like more work this weekend.
post #24660 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digione View Post

Y/C or S-Video, either way I cannot get the two I have tried to drive the HDMI monitor outputs either. I understood that once you selected HDMI to NONE that the AVP automatically detected whether an analog signal was present on either the composite or Y/C inputs. If this is not the case what else do I need to do to tell the AVP to "look at" the analog video inputs?

As the Y/C inputs when selected appear on the composite monitor out, why do they not appear on the HDMI monitor out, as I get the menu but no source video signal?

Looks like more work this weekend.

Make sure you have followed all steps on p45 of the manual for "Video Convert".

Mine didn't work either, initially. I had to cycle through some inputs before the AVP would recognize S-video. Probably because mine had to really break the HDMI handshake well, before realizing I was using analog video. You may even need to power off with the small power button.
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