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Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 826

post #24751 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

I am currently in the Oppo 103 thread and if I understand you correctly, you are using HDMI 1 for video and HDMI 2 for audio, correct?

If yes, then please read the last pages of the 'Official Oppo 103 owners' thread and you will find that you are not the only one with a lip sync problem. There are some reports.
In other words, if the set-up is as described above, this has nothing to do with the Denon and would also not be helped by the Marantz.
Some people are having lip sync issues, but it's with specific equipment combinations and/or when using the HDMI inputs on the Oppo. I'm not experiencing any lip sync issues with my BDP-105 and Denon AVP combo. The lip sync issues Seth is experiencing are most likely related to the video processing that's going on in his 4k display, especially if the audio is ahead of the video.
Quote:
Try HDMI 1 only and change the Oppo to Dual HDMI and not 'Split'. Then go to the AVP and then to your display.
When using only 1 of the HDMI outputs on the Oppo, the Dual vs. Split setting makes no difference - that only applies when both connections are hooked up to something that's turned on at the other end.
Quote:
But can the AVP do 4k? This would be the question then.
Nobody has tried it yet, but there's really no good reason to set any current source to output 4k since there isn't any native 4k material available (outside of things like the server Sony is including with some of their 4k displays).

I would suggest that Seth get in contact with Oppo support and see if they have any recommendations. Even if the fault isn't in the Oppo, they're pretty good about working with people on this sort of problem. They will sometimes provide public beta firmware versions to help diagnose problems that they haven't yet made available to most users.
post #24752 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

I don't use two HDMI outs but ohyeah32 surely has a need to use the two HDMI outputs for his 4k display.
There's really no need for him to use both HDMI outputs for his 4k display as the Oppo doesn't have any native 4k content available. The TV will upscale 1080p to 4k for him. What he does need both HDMI outputs for is 3D as he hasn't upgraded his AVP yet to get 3D support. If he gets the 3D upgrade, he can switch to a single HDMI cable from the Oppo to the AVP.
post #24753 of 25955
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

for what its worth I think hdmi v14 will do didly squat in this situation. there seems something wrong in additional processing along the way introdicing a delay.

I'm happily running 3D via my epson 9000W projector via cambridge 751 bd player (oppo 93/95 equivalnet) feeding the avp and onto the projector and there is no lip synch issues. and neither is it something you should experience either.

you absolutely do not need hdmi v1.4a for 3D. infact hdmi if you check their website has purposefully got rid of all reference to version numbers for this very reason.

there is something wrong here and I would lay this fairly and squarely at either some setting or some display issue ! are you upscaling in the display or using some other processing ? this could introduce some delays due to additional picture processing the display might be introducing.

have you tried using the dual out on the oppo so one goes direct player to display other player to avp for audio ?

You're probably right, HDMI 1.4a may not help one bit. But I wonder if the connection method that I have to use currently (HDMI video to TV, and HDMI audio to the AVP) is the reason for the sync issue? If I were to be able to send the 3D (picture and sound) via HDMI to the pre/pro (like the Marantz or upgraded AVP) and then pre/pro to the TV, I wonder if this would solve the out of sync issue?
post #24754 of 25955
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

I am currently in the Oppo 103 thread and if I understand you correctly, you are using HDMI 1 for video and HDMI 2 for audio, correct?

If yes, then please read the last pages of the 'Official Oppo 103 owners' thread and you will find that you are not the only one with a lip sync problem. There are some reports.
In other words, if the set-up is as described above, this has nothing to do with the Denon and would also not be helped by the Marantz.

Try HDMI 1 only and change the Oppo to Dual HDMI and not 'Split'. Then go to the AVP and then to your display.

But can the AVP do 4k? This would be the question then.

However, this is a problem of the source and not of the AVP. At least this is my opinion.

Yes, I am using HDMI out 1 for video and HDMI out 2 for audio. So this is why I'm wondering if I were to use only one HDMI cable, go to the pre/pro (Marantz or upgraded AVP), and then pre/pro to the TV. By connecting it this way, both audio and video are staying together via one cable (instead of two separate ones for video and audio). It would be nice if this would correct the issue. If it will, then it'll be my option to either get my AVP upgraded (if a kit is still available), or go with the Marantz 8801.
post #24755 of 25955
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I would suggest that Seth get in contact with Oppo support and see if they have any recommendations. Even if the fault isn't in the Oppo, they're pretty good about working with people on this sort of problem. They will sometimes provide public beta firmware versions to help diagnose problems that they haven't yet made available to most users.

That's a good idea, I think I'll give them a call today and see what they tell me.
post #24756 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

That's a good idea, I think I'll give them a call today and see what they tell me.

Curious to read what they say Seth. Are you going to send your AVP off for the upgrade?
post #24757 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

You're probably right, HDMI 1.4a may not help one bit. But I wonder if the connection method that I have to use currently (HDMI video to TV, and HDMI audio to the AVP) is the reason for the sync issue? If I were to be able to send the 3D (picture and sound) via HDMI to the pre/pro (like the Marantz or upgraded AVP) and then pre/pro to the TV, I wonder if this would solve the out of sync issue?

I wouldnt have thought so. before I got the avp upgraded I was using the dual out for my cambridge for 3D. the hdmi 2 to the avp for audio and hdmi 1 to the wireless hd transmitter for the epson. worked no dramas as a work around until avp could be upgraded.

I would 100% recommend getting the avp upgraded if using 3D, I didnt realise you hadnt done that. from a useability point of view its a no brainer. as is other benefits ie audyssey xt32 for one. but in the main time you should be able to use the dual out from the player as long as there is not differing amounts of processing going on in the avp vs the TV which is what it sounds like to be the case or at the player end if you are using some upscaling or something.
post #24758 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Yes, I am using HDMI out 1 for video and HDMI out 2 for audio. So this is why I'm wondering if I were to use only one HDMI cable, go to the pre/pro (Marantz or upgraded AVP), and then pre/pro to the TV. By connecting it this way, both audio and video are staying together via one cable (instead of two separate ones for video and audio). It would be nice if this would correct the issue. If it will, then it'll be my option to either get my AVP upgraded (if a kit is still available), or go with the Marantz 8801.

as a point of note you cant separate the audio and video on hdmi. if you do so is when you open up to lip synch and other issues. what you perhaps mean is you are feeding signal off hdmi 2 (audio and video) to the avp and hdmi (audio + video) to the display.
post #24759 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

as a point of note you cant separate the audio and video on hdmi. if you do so is when you open up to lip synch and other issues. what you perhaps mean is you are feeding signal off hdmi 2 (audio and video) to the avp and hdmi (audio + video) to the display.
The Oppo does have an option to send a blank picture (basically a solid black image) on HDMI 2 which can sometimes help resolve some issues, but you're correct that HDMI must always contain some sort of video in order for audio to be present because the audio is interleaved within the video blanking intervals.

Seth - I don't recall exactly where that setting is, but it's worth giving a try. If I were you, I would upgrade your AVP first and hope that it solves the problem. If it doesn't I suspect your AVP would be worth a fair amount more on the used market if you decide to sell it and switch to the Marantz, especially now that upgrade kits are getting to be scarce.
post #24760 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Some people are having lip sync issues, but it's with specific equipment combinations and/or when using the HDMI inputs on the Oppo. I'm not experiencing any lip sync issues with my BDP-105 and Denon AVP combo. The lip sync issues Seth is experiencing are most likely related to the video processing that's going on in his 4k display, especially if the audio is ahead of the video.
When using only 1 of the HDMI outputs on the Oppo, the Dual vs. Split setting makes no difference - that only applies when both connections are hooked up to something that's turned on at the other end.
Nobody has tried it yet, but there's really no good reason to set any current source to output 4k since there isn't any native 4k material available (outside of things like the server Sony is including with some of their 4k displays).

I would suggest that Seth get in contact with Oppo support and see if they have any recommendations. Even if the fault isn't in the Oppo, they're pretty good about working with people on this sort of problem. They will sometimes provide public beta firmware versions to help diagnose problems that they haven't yet made available to most users.

Good comment gsr. I completely agree to your comments. If the up-scaling takes place in the display and not in the Oppo, I also don't see any reason to use two HDMI connections and also no need for the Marantz biggrin.gif

The only reason to exchange the AVP with the Marantz would be native 4k content from a player or, if you want to up-scale to 4k in the player and send this on one HDMI through the AVR. At least in my opinion or use 11.1 output instead of 9.1.

May be ohyeah32 could test the 4k output of the Oppo with the AVP?
post #24761 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

May be ohyeah32 could test the 4k output of the Oppo with the AVP?
Shhhh! Don't let him know the REAL reason why we want him to upgrade his AVP. biggrin.gifcool.gif
post #24762 of 25955
biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif Oooopps, sorry rolleyes.gif
post #24763 of 25955
I just did the 3 min update on my AVP and now the XLR outputs for surround right, surround back right, and surround back left are dead. The XLRs for fronts, center, surround left work fine. I did the factory reset and network reset several times, that didn't fix it. Anyone else having this problem?

Thanks,

R
post #24764 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razvanel View Post

I just did the 3 min update on my AVP and now the XLR outputs for surround right, surround back right, and surround back left are dead. The XLRs for fronts, center, surround left work fine. I did the factory reset and network reset several times, that didn't fix it. Anyone else having this problem?

Thanks,

R

Did you check your amps? How about re-assigning the surround right output to Sub3 or something and see you get sound then?
post #24765 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razvanel View Post

I just did the 3 min update on my AVP and now the XLR outputs for surround right, surround back right, and surround back left are dead. The XLRs for fronts, center, surround left work fine. I did the factory reset and network reset several times, that didn't fix it. Anyone else having this problem?

Thanks,

R

Nope very unusual for that to happen. Are those dead outs put still assigned to xlr?
post #24766 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Nope very unusual for that to happen. Are those dead outs put still assigned to xlr?

Yes, they are still assigned to XLR.

R
post #24767 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Razvanel View Post

Yes, they are still assigned to XLR.

R

That definitely is very unusual. Just out of curiosity have you tried the RCA inputs to see if that is still working ?
post #24768 of 25955
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Curious to read what they say Seth. Are you going to send your AVP off for the upgrade?

Hi, Frank!smile.gif

I gave LG, Oppo, and Denon a call to see what they would say about the audio sync issue I'm having. Unfortunately none were able to get it resolved.frown.gif All mentioned that if my pre/amp was able to allow full 3D passthrough (1080p), and if I had my Oppo 103 going to the pre/pro, then out to the TV, that would be the ideal connection method. And by doing this, would (should) keep 3D audio/video synced.

I contacted Marantz about this as well, as I was considering buying an AV8801. They told me the same thing. That by going separate video and audio (HDMI to TV and HDMI to pre/pro) many times this will cause lip sync issues. And that the best way to connect a 3D Blu-ray player, is going to a 3D capable pre/pro first, then out to the 3D TV.

And since I've tried everything under the sun with what I'm currently using, as much as it saddens me, I am going to replace my AVP with a Marantz AV8801 and hope that this works for me. If it does, then I will be very happy. If for some strange reason it doesn't, I will be very disappointed.

I am really going to miss using my Denon AVP, as it has been the best pre/pro I've ever had the pleasure of using. It's been 5+ years of pure audio/video delight.smile.gif

And I would have gotten my AVP upgraded, but I asked a Denon technical support person if the upgrade allowed 4K passthrough, had ARC, and was HDMI 1.4a. He told me no, that the upgrade did allow 3D passthrough, but was HDMI 1.3a. So I'm guessing, that the 3D passthrough is like what is being done with the PS3, only 720p or 1080i 3D is allowed to pass through. So this most likely will not work for what I'm needing.

Just one of the many joys when upgrading to a brand new, state of the art TV.
Edited by ohyeah32 - 3/27/13 at 6:43pm
post #24769 of 25955
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

I wouldnt have thought so. before I got the avp upgraded I was using the dual out for my cambridge for 3D. the hdmi 2 to the avp for audio and hdmi 1 to the wireless hd transmitter for the epson. worked no dramas as a work around until avp could be upgraded.

I would 100% recommend getting the avp upgraded if using 3D, I didnt realise you hadnt done that. from a useability point of view its a no brainer. as is other benefits ie audyssey xt32 for one. but in the main time you should be able to use the dual out from the player as long as there is not differing amounts of processing going on in the avp vs the TV which is what it sounds like to be the case or at the player end if you are using some upscaling or something.

As I was mentioning to Frank, the upgrade is working off of HDMI 1.3a, and does not allow full resolution 1080p 3D to pass through. The AV8801 does this, as well as allows 4K to pass through. Since I've tried every possible connection method, setting, and adjustment I can think of, I am going to go ahead and order an AV8801 and hope that it will be keep the 3D picture and sound synced.

Once I get the new pre/pro, I'll let you know if it worked for me. If it does, I'll be a very happy guy! I will, however, really miss using my AVP. It's been the best pre/pro I've ever used!
post #24770 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

And I would have gotten my AVP upgraded, but I asked a Denon technical support person if the upgrade allowed 4K passthrough, had ARC, and was HDMI 1.4a. He told me no, that the upgrade did allow 3D passthrough, but was HDMI 1.3a. So I'm guessing, that the 3D passthrough is like what is being done with the PS3, only 720p or 1080i 3D is allowed to pass through. So this most likely will not work for what I'm needing.

Just one of the many joys when upgrading to a brand new, state of the art TV.

As I understand it, the 3D AVP upgrade allows for pass-through of all current 3D formats, not just 1080i.

Unless someone confirms otherwise, I think you're cutting off your nose to spite your face, by ditching the AVP in favor of the Marantz.
post #24771 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

And I would have gotten my AVP upgraded, but I asked a Denon technical support person if the upgrade allowed 4K passthrough, had ARC, and was HDMI 1.4a. He told me no, that the upgrade did allow 3D passthrough, but was HDMI 1.3a. So I'm guessing, that the 3D passthrough is like what is being done with the PS3, only 720p or 1080i 3D is allowed to pass through. So this most likely will not work for what I'm needing.
Why are you guessing? Though I don't watch a ton of 3D, I haven't had any issues sending full res 3D from my Oppo BDP-95 and BDP-105 through my upgraded AVP.
post #24772 of 25955
My 3d comes through perfectly fine and beautiful with my upgraded avp.
post #24773 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

As I understand it, the 3D AVP upgrade allows for pass-through of all current 3D formats, not just 1080i.

.

I thought the upgrade allowed 3D 1080p passthrough
post #24774 of 25955
Thread Starter 
That's good to know that 1080p 3D is passed through on the upgraded AVP. The person at Denon never said the upgrade would only allow 1080i, I was just thinking that since It's still 1.3a, that it would only allow 1080i. So it was just my thought. Sorry.
post #24775 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

That's good to know that 1080p 3D is passed through on the upgraded AVP. The person at Denon never said the upgrade would only allow 1080i, I was just thinking that since It's still 1.3a, that it would only allow 1080i. So it was just my thought. Sorry.

as I mentioned quite some posts ago the avp perfectly passes through 3D and hd audio no problems at all in my setup. and thats full 1080p it isnt restriced to 1080i or anything. as mentioned prior to my avp upgrade I was using the dual outs from cambridge without issue for 3D with my epson pj and since upgrading my avp with the 3D upgrade it works flawlessly passing through direct from my cambridge to avp and onto my pj no longer need to use dual outs smile.gif

the cheapest option for you would be to upgrade the avp with the 3D upgrade I would have thought and this way dont have to pass up on what an awesome piece of gear the denon is.
post #24776 of 25955
Yes, before the upgrade the AVP could do side by side and vertical format 3D with no problem . The upgrade was for 1080p/bluray 3D passthrough. My upgraded AVP works flawlessly with my Oppo -93 and 1080p/bluray 3D. Just bought a new 3D projector and will be testing it with the AVP this weekend.
post #24777 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

as I mentioned quite some posts ago the avp perfectly passes through 3D and hd audio no problems at all in my setup. and thats full 1080p.

Thats good to read AL. At least we know its full 1080P.
post #24778 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Hi, Frank!smile.gif
..

I contacted Marantz about this as well, as I was considering buying an AV8801. They told me the same thing. That by going separate video and audio (HDMI to TV and HDMI to pre/pro) many times this will cause lip sync issues. And that the best way to connect a 3D Blu-ray player, is going to a 3D capable pre/pro first, then out to the 3D TV.

...
I hate to throw water on the fire but I think your issue is the 4K projector processing time, not the AVP. So even if you kept the streams together within the AVP as soon as the video is processed in the projector it will be behind, even though everything was in sync when it left the AVP.

Since the AVP is just doing video pass-through nothing's going to be delayed there anyway.

You can test this today by just using a non 3-D source (one that the avp can handle without the upgrade) using the single hdmi model you are trying to use for 3D. Unless the projector is straining to do 3D vs 4K enhancement, it should be perfect. I would doubt the project has a problem with 3D.

So before you run off and buy a new piece of gear, isolate where and why the delay is occurring.

If it is the projector (which I suspect), then your only option is to deal with it using an audio delay. That will work only if the projector has a consistent delay factor. If it changes frame by frame then there is not much hope unless the projector can be updated to providing a constant processing factor (ie no matter what it will delay the image by 1/4 second).
Edited by Aesculus - 3/28/13 at 8:12am
post #24779 of 25955
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

I was just thinking that since It's still 1.3a, that it would only allow 1080i. So it was just my thought. Sorry.

Is there such thing as HDMI 1.4a in hardware??? I don't think so. As far as I know, all HDMI chips are 1.3 and I read here or in the Oppo 103 thread, that the numbers behind HDMI are currently deleted in all product descriptions. This also makes sense for me.

This is from the AV 8801 product description as an example:

"A full suite of video connectivity options includes multiple assignable composite and component video inputs, along with no less than 7 HDMI inputs, including a front panel HDMI input that lets you easily connect an HDMI enabled portable device. There are 3 HDMI outputs, including dual outputs for the main zone, which lets you connect two HD displays, such as a flat panel HDTV and an HD front projector. The third HDMI output let’s you enjoy a different program in another room, and the InstaPrevue function let’s you preview video from connected HDMI sources in multiple picture-in-picture windows."

Don't let you fool by 'marketing talk'... cool.gif
post #24780 of 25955
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

as I mentioned quite some posts ago the avp perfectly passes through 3D and hd audio no problems at all in my setup. and thats full 1080p it isnt restriced to 1080i or anything. as mentioned prior to my avp upgrade I was using the dual outs from cambridge without issue for 3D with my epson pj and since upgrading my avp with the 3D upgrade it works flawlessly passing through direct from my cambridge to avp and onto my pj no longer need to use dual outs smile.gif

the cheapest option for you would be to upgrade the avp with the 3D upgrade I would have thought and this way dont have to pass up on what an awesome piece of gear the denon is.

Actually upgrading my AVP isn't really the cheapest option in a way. First off, there are zero places in my state (NM) that are doing the upgrade. So that means I would either have to drive out of state (closest place to me is Phoenix AZ) which is approx. a 15 hour drive round trip, or ship it to my nearest service center, which will be at the very minimum $500, as shipping via freight on a pallet is a requirement. If I want it to be upgraded at Denon's service center (Panurgy) in Rockaway NJ, freight shipping will run $800-$1,000.

And after getting the upgrade, there is no guarantee that it will solve the audio sync issue with 3D. And once upgraded, and it doesn't do what I need, I can't return the upgrade for a refund. At least with the Marantz, if once I receive it and it doesn't solve the audio sync issue, I can return it if I want to. But the only way I will know conclusively, is to actually try out the Marantz first hand.
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