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Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 837

post #25081 of 25097
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

There's no need to have native 4K source material, just a source device that can scale to 4K - such as an Oppo BDP-103 or BDP-105.

no no...I'm talking real 4K source. not fake 4K upscaled or anything. otherwise we'll keep going on the circular argument its the upscaling introducing the delays lip synch etc smile.gif the oppos are still only 1080p source and upscaling to 4K is a bit like the old dvd players that upscaled to high definition. wasnt the same as output from a blu-ray player smile.gif
post #25082 of 25097
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

If I get to 4k at some point and I still have the AVP, which is more likely than not, I'll just bypass the video either with a dual output player or switch. The only way I'm letting go of my AVP is if someone comes up with something better than XT32 Pro..... by a wide margin.

yep is what I would do smile.gif yep the avp aint going anyplace unless something better by a huge margin comes along.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

The potential problem with dual HDMI output is what Seth ran into for 3D - the audio and video could end up getting out of sync. But that's a bridge to cross when/if we come to it.

no probs with dual hdmi and the avp. before I did the 3D upgrade on the avp I used the wireless hd transmitter for my epson pj that worked off my oppo 95 and then the cambridge 751's dual hdmi output worked a treat no lip synch and what not. same with after the upgrade at one stage I ran dual hdmi to and again no issues. I suspect seths issues more related to the 103/105 upscaling or his 3D display itself ! but yeah for me it would be worth a shot smile.gif
post #25083 of 25097
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

no no...I'm talking real 4K source. not fake 4K upscaled or anything. otherwise we'll keep going on the circular argument its the upscaling introducing the delays lip synch etc smile.gif the oppos are still only 1080p source and upscaling to 4K is a bit like the old dvd players that upscaled to high definition. wasnt the same as output from a blu-ray player smile.gif
For testing whether the AVP can pass 4K through, an upscaled image from something like one of the Oppo players should be more than sufficient while we wait for a native 4K source to materialize. If one gets a picture on the display, that will at least indicate there's hope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

yep is what I would do smile.gif yep the avp aint going anyplace unless something better by a huge margin comes along.
no probs with dual hdmi and the avp. before I did the 3D upgrade on the avp I used the wireless hd transmitter for my epson pj that worked off my oppo 95 and then the cambridge 751's dual hdmi output worked a treat no lip synch and what not. same with after the upgrade at one stage I ran dual hdmi to and again no issues. I suspect seths issues more related to the 103/105 upscaling or his 3D display itself ! but yeah for me it would be worth a shot smile.gif
When Seth replaced his AVP with his 8801, his sync problems went away. My point was that going with dual HDMI connections opens more possibilities for A/V sync issues and I think Seth would probably be inclined to agree with that statement wink.gif..
post #25084 of 25097
No disagree. It does not eliminate either the player or display as providing spanner In the works. As many here have mentioned we have all used dual hdmi with the avp and not had any issue. I still lay his lip synch issue at the feet of his oppo and display. I am pretty sure if he updated his avp it would be passing 3 D as every one here has done without lip synch. It's all the additional processing done on one video stream vs nothing done on the other. I don't know why that's not clear. If the signal was native no upscaling or further processing would be needed.

I myself rather try native 4k. It's a bit like jvcs eshift which they try and purport as 4k. Gimme a break ! What a load of crock. No diffent to the oppo upscaling DVD players anyone whom used those would say their upscaled DVD was no way confirmation their display or processor would pass blu-rays 1080p and hd audio were talking complete different ball game, different ball park ! Don't give two hoots about fake 4k
post #25085 of 25097
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

No disagree. It does not eliminate either the player or display as providing spanner In the works. As many here have mentioned we have all used dual hdmi with the avp and not had any issue. I still lay his lip synch issue at the feet of his oppo and display. I am pretty sure if he updated his avp it would be passing 3 D as every one here has done without lip synch. It's all the additional processing done on one video stream vs nothing done on the other. I don't know why that's not clear. If the signal was native no upscaling or further processing would be needed.

I myself rather try native 4k. It's a bit like jvcs eshift which they try and purport as 4k. Gimme a break ! What a load of crock. No diffent to the oppo upscaling DVD players anyone whom used those would say their upscaled DVD was no way confirmation their display or processor would pass blu-rays 1080p and hd audio were talking complete different ball game, different ball park ! Don't give two hoots about fake 4k
We're discussing 2 different things here. The original question that was posed is "can the upgraded AVP pass a 4K signal through". The answer to that question can be answered with ANY 4K source, regardless of whether it's upscaled from something to 4K or native. If we want to answer the AVP passthrough question today, we only have the option of a device that upscales to 4K. Is it a perfect test? Probably not, but it should be good enough to give us a darn good starting point in getting a definitive answer.

Whether you want to actually use the device that doesn't have native support for 4K material is an entirely different matter.

Getting back to Seth's situation for a moment. IIRC his display IS a 4K display which was most likely a big part of the problem in using dual HDMI output as if he has the player set to output 1080p, his display has to upscale the 3D that he's trying to send it to 4K, which takes processing time. I don't recall if he tried setting the video output on his Oppo to 4K (and I'm not 100% sure if the Oppo can output 3D scaled to 4K), but that might have resolved the problems he was having as the Oppo makes sure the audio and video are in sync when they leave the player.

Regarding "fake 4K", we're trying to address a question of bandwidth here not whether the source is native or not. There's no indication that new audio formats are coming at this time. So 1080p upscaled to 4K at a defined bit depth with bitstreamed DTS HD Master Audio, Dolby True HD, or high resolution multichannel LPCM will use the same bandwidth on the HDMI line as native 4K at the same bit depth with the same audio stream - that's all very well defined at this point. If you can't agree with that, then we'll have to agree to disagree and move on.
post #25086 of 25097
Yes agree to disagree. If want to test 4K . I would want test with native 4k from source. Full stop. Wouldn't want to pull in additional processing of upscaling in as factor or fake 4 k etc.

Seth's situation lets leave that aside as all he was passing was 3D. And we all whom have done the upgrade or used dual hdmi' have done so and continue to do so without issue. His situation is particular to his player and display. If he had upgraded his avp, I dare say it would pass 3D as everyone else has whom has done the 3 D upgrade. Full stop. again we can agree to disagree. And since not and option for him pretty much a mute point of no value discussing further.
post #25087 of 25097
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

Seth's situation lets leave that aside as all he was passing was 3D. And we all whom have done the upgrade or used dual hdmi' have done so and continue to do so without issue. His situation is particular to his player and display. If he had upgraded his avp, I dare say it would pass 3D as everyone else has whom has done the 3 D upgrade. Full stop. again we can agree to disagree. And since not and option for him pretty much a mute point of no value discussing further.
I don't believe anyone else has reported using a 4K display with 3D and the AVP in this thread, so that's a variable I don't believe anyone else has tested with either a single or dual HDMI cable configuration. But I agree that an upgraded AVP most likely would have solved his problems with 3D (his switch to the 8801 helps support that) - I never said or suggested otherwise.

The bottom line on 4K (whether native or so-called "fake") is that I doubt the upgraded AVP will support passing it through. I'm pretty confident that 1080p 3D is the highest bandwidth signal it will support as I would have expected Denon would have advertised support for 4K if they had expected it would work as that would have been a pretty strong selling point for the upgrade kits (stronger than 3D support, IMHO).
post #25088 of 25097
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I don't believe anyone else has reported using a 4K display with 3D and the AVP in this thread, so that's a variable I don't believe anyone else has tested with either a single or dual HDMI cable configuration. But I agree that an upgraded AVP most likely would have solved his problems with 3D (his switch to the 8801 helps support that) - I never said or suggested otherwise.

~.

agree smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

~

The bottom line on 4K (whether native or so-called "fake") is that I doubt the upgraded AVP will support passing it through. I'm pretty confident that 1080p 3D is the highest bandwidth signal it will support as I would have expected Denon would have advertised support for 4K if they had expected it would work as that would have been a pretty strong selling point for the upgrade kits (stronger than 3D support, IMHO).

am not sure if it will or wont either. the thing with hdmi they stopped giving numbers to them as way to many manufacturers would support this and not that. its like hdmi cables now they are just called high speed dont say whether they do 3D or 4k or anything. though quite probably 4K probably wasnt even a factor when the kits for the avp were developed I dare say. But am not too worried I dont even have a 4K display/PJ also am not throughly convinced in their need in a domestic setup given the 1-1.5x screen height viewing required to resolve.. but am curious in any case to check out smile.gif
post #25089 of 25097
I'm in no rush to check it out, ill be definitely sitting on the fence and watching it grow. Funny thing is not many people have blu rays there still content with DVD.
post #25090 of 25097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

I'm in no rush to check it out, ill be definitely sitting on the fence and watching it grow. Funny thing is not many people have blu rays there still content with DVD.

This is really true according to my own experience.Therefore what is 4k really good for or UHD?

+1 Franin
post #25091 of 25097
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

just as clarification seth wasnt using 4K material through the avp or even the marantz for matter of fact. he didnt want to get the 3D upgrade and was trying to run 3D bypassing the avp and having trouble with lip synch. as many of us posted back its clear that there are many of us quite happily using 3D with our upgraded avps and without any lip synch or any other issues smile.gif

re 4K and the avp there is still no native 4K source material so until there is such media device you prob wont have an answer smile.gif

Oops you are right i kinda forgot but i at least shifted us to a better topic smile.gif

Daniel.
post #25092 of 25097
Help with connecting a headphone amplifier to the AVP

I am considering purchasing a headphone amplifier to attach to an upgraded AVP.

I listen mostly to SACD/DVD-A/Blu-ray via Denon Link and HDMI from a Denon DBP-A100 universal player. I use 5.1 XLR outputs to a POA and a subwoofer.

My goal is to have a Hi Res signal from the DBP-A100 go to the AVP via DL/HDMI and then have an output from the AVP to the headphone amp. Is there a good solution for this? I prefer to connect the headphone amp to the AVP instead of directly connecting the headphone amp to the universal player, to allow the AVP to switch to other sources on occasion.

I realize that the AVP will not output to Zone 2-4 any of the signals from the Denon Link or HDMI (stated in the manual).

I can reassign the SBR and SBR channels to FR and FL and use these for the headphone amp, but that solution requires that whenever I wish to use headphones I will need to 1) manually turn off the POA, 2) turn off the subwoofer, and 3) enable the SBR speakers (which then disables the Audyssey settings). This also runs the risk of loud noises at night if I mistakenly turn the system off and then on (which turns the POA back on).

If there is no solution for a hi res digital transfer to the AVP, then I can connect the analog out of the universal player to the AVP.

Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Edited by Hi-Res - 5/22/13 at 7:50pm
post #25093 of 25097
I dont think you want to hook up the pre -outs from the avp to a headphone amp. otherwise you will have to be cranking the vol knob of the avp as well. which as you say will mean it will not have the rest of speakers muted. typically for headphone amps you plug L&R tape or monitor out signal to a headphone amp. in this case can you hook up the vcr out L&R to a headphone amp ? this I imagine should work ? worth a shot smile.gif

re hi-res to the avp you have hdmi or plain analog signals in smile.gif
post #25094 of 25097
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

agree smile.gif
am not sure if it will or wont either. the thing with hdmi they stopped giving numbers to them as way to many manufacturers would support this and not that. its like hdmi cables now they are just called high speed dont say whether they do 3D or 4k or anything. though quite probably 4K probably wasnt even a factor when the kits for the avp were developed I dare say. But am not too worried I dont even have a 4K display/PJ also am not throughly convinced in their need in a domestic setup given the 1-1.5x screen height viewing required to resolve.. but am curious in any case to check out smile.gif
HDMI 1.4a will pass UHD (home version of 4K) up to 30fps. Will need HDMI 2.0 to pass higher frame rates. Display port and Thunderbolt can do it now but are not HDCP compliant at present. Equipment will also need to support H.264 compression standard for streaming UHD from web sites, when available. Mono price Redmere cables can do UHD but are unidirectional, so will not support ethernet or audio return channels. Any "high bandwidth" HDMI cable is supposed to be able to handle UHD signals.
post #25095 of 25097
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLA View Post

Mono price Redmere cables can do UHD but are unidirectional, so will not support ethernet or audio return channels.

I just re-cabled my whole system with RedMere cables a few weeks ago and absolutely love them for there ultra-compact size and flexibility. Huge improvement over conventional HDMI cables with their ferrite rings that are both stiff and bulky.

I don't use either Ethernet or ARC over HDMI in my system but Monoprice explicitly states that RedMere cables support both of these features. Are these false claims?

Quote:
This cable supports the following HDMI features:

1080p Resolution - This High Speed HDMI Cable has sufficient bandwidth to transfer 1080p video signals between 1080p rated source and sink (display) devices.


HDMI Ethernet Channel - The HDMI Ethernet Channel provides 100 Mbps, full-duplex Ethernet traffic along the HDMI cable, allowing a wired or wireless Ethernet connection on one device to be propagated to other devices. Note that for this feature to be functional, all pieces of equipment between the Ethernet source and the destination must support the HDMI Ethernet Channel feature.


Audio Return Channel - Normally, your HDMI cable carries audio information along with the video from a source device (e.g. blu-ray player) to the sink device (display/television). Often times this goes through an AV receiver to drive a home theater audio system. The Audio Return Channel is primarily used to send the audio signal generated by the television when its internal tuner is used, back to the AV receiver, so that you can use your home theater audio system when watching television signals.


3D - 3D is the latest rage for both home theater and gaming. A High Speed HDMI Cable is capable of handling the high bandwidth requirements of 3D signals.


4K - The 4K resolution is 3840 x 2160 pixels @ 24 Hz, which is four times that of a 1080p display and the same resolution used by state-of-the-art Digital Cinema systems. A High Speed HDMI Cable is capable of handling the high bandwidth required for 4K support.


Deep Color - The Deep Color feature provides a minimum of 8-bits per color element (24-bits total), providing for a total of over 16 million color variations. Other versions of Deep Color allow for up to 16-bits per element, for a total of 48-bits and over 281 trillion color variations, which really makes your video images come to life!


x.v.Color™ - x.v.Color is a promotion name given to the products that have the capability to realize a wide color space based on the xvYCC specifications and is a trademark of Sony Corporation. Currently, only AVCHD and Playstation™ 3 devices support x.v.Color.


High Definition Audio - HDMI supports a full range of high definition audio types, including SA-CD, DVD-Audio, DTS-HD Master Audio™, and Dolby TrueHD™.
post #25096 of 25097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Picasso Moon View Post

I just re-cabled my whole system with RedMere cables a few weeks ago and absolutely love them for there ultra-compact size and flexibility. Huge improvement over conventional HDMI cables with their ferrite rings that are both stiff and bulky.

I don't use either Ethernet or ARC over HDMI in my system but Monoprice explicitly states that RedMere cables support both of these features. Are these false claims?
Not sure. Robert Herron of HD Nation claims that the unidirectional design prevents ARC and ethernet bidirectional traffic.
post #25097 of 25097
Quote:
Originally Posted by PLA View Post

Not sure. Robert Herron of HD Nation claims that the unidirectional design prevents ARC and ethernet bidirectional traffic.

After watching the video review it sounds like they are just assuming they won't do Ethernet or ARC because of the directionality. Since Monoprice states they are compatible with both technologies I think I would believe them over these guys. I emailed Monoprice for clarification.
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