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Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 851

post #25501 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesculus View Post

There is a manual equalizer setting. Its part of the menu choices. You have to create your own curve.

I did find it now - thanks
post #25502 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I suspect you were pointed to this thread because someone got confused and thought you were asking about the AVP-A1HDCI given how the AVC-A1HDA model number seems more similar than the AVR-5308CI. I wasn't trying to "get rid of you", just trying to point out that the other thread should be more useful to you. I suspect that if you point out in that thread that AVC-A1HDA is the model number used for the AVR-5308CI in other parts of the world, it will help with any confusion.
Exactly. I was just trying to point him to the correct thread.

Now that we have you here gsr any word on what you feel about the new oppo players ?

Daniel.
post #25503 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

No its fine, it is indeed the same as the 5308 so that thread makes more sense. I see you already have shipped it to denon so i guess its waiting now. A shutdown like that sounds most of the time as something going wrong in the signal path and than feeding a max signal into the power unit part thats why it shut down (to protect the amps and speakers). Normally i would advice to remove all speaker wires and test and test with a headphone etc etc but seems we are too late for that now. Most of the time if a denon receiver shuts down like this its a short in the wires. Now i had a marantz 8801 doing it to the POA (when my avp was out of order) so it does happen (and thats good news) on a overload but not on bootup already.

Would not be shocked if it was really damaged on the input side of things it turns out to be the digital audio board and you are looking at a 500 to 600 euro part cost (not sure if its the same for a avp and avc my guess its 50% of the pathways but price is the same ish).

Daniel.

PS: i am sure gsr didn't want to scare you away just pointing our a better thread but feel free to update us on that happens next, not sure why they send you to us maybe because we are nicer smile.gif

PS2: if it turns out to the digital board its interesting to know if it had/has the 3d upgrade board installed over the last year since something might have been gone wrong as a result of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I suspect you were pointed to this thread because someone got confused and thought you were asking about the AVP-A1HDCI given how the AVC-A1HDA model number seems more similar than the AVR-5308CI. I wasn't trying to "get rid of you", just trying to point out that the other thread should be more useful to you. I suspect that if you point out in that thread that AVC-A1HDA is the model number used for the AVR-5308CI in other parts of the world, it will help with any confusion.
Exactly. I was just trying to point him to the correct thread.

Thanks guys, no problem at all, like you said, I think the model number is a little confusing... Anyway, Daniel, I tried unplugging all sources, in fact every cable from the unit was unplugged, speakers, hdmi's (EVERYTHING) did multiple micro-processor resets, and nothing. Amp just would not lock on, and complete the boot up sequence.. So I figured there was nothing I could do more from my side but get the PRO's to take a look. I am interested to see what the outcome is. Must say I am rather disappointed with this unit from the quality point of view, and by this I mean breaking after just 3 years, and the amp has never been nearly pushed. I have lived in a block of flats with it most of the time, so have never managed to crank it! My previous amp, a Kenwood 999D was a beast in its day as well, winning Euro Awards, and lasted me like 10 years... and I think its still going.. Oh well, this amp is my baby, in SA it costs or used to cost should I say about USD9000 equivilant, needless to say, I had to give the Distributor a hard time, playing with them, saying I am going ONKYO, lol. if they cant fix it.. ROFL.... Well, I will report back for sure when I get further info. from them. smile.gif
post #25504 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by A1HDA View Post


Thanks guys, no problem at all, like you said, I think the model number is a little confusing... Anyway, Daniel, I tried unplugging all sources, in fact every cable from the unit was unplugged, speakers, hdmi's (EVERYTHING) did multiple micro-processor resets, and nothing. Amp just would not lock on, and complete the boot up sequence.. So I figured there was nothing I could do more from my side but get the PRO's to take a look. I am interested to see what the outcome is. Must say I am rather disappointed with this unit from the quality point of view, and by this I mean breaking after just 3 years, and the amp has never been nearly pushed. I have lived in a block of flats with it most of the time, so have never managed to crank it! My previous amp, a Kenwood 999D was a beast in its day as well, winning Euro Awards, and lasted me like 10 years... and I think its still going.. Oh well, this amp is my baby, in SA it costs or used to cost should I say about USD9000 equivilant, needless to say, I had to give the Distributor a hard time, playing with them, saying I am going ONKYO, lol. if they cant fix it.. ROFL.... Well, I will report back for sure when I get further info. from them. smile.gif

I doubt if you pushed it too hard it would have shutdown, it really looks something went wrong. The A1 line is build with care but even then something can go wrong after a few years. I had my avp in for a fix this year so i know what you mean sometimes its just bad luck. And trust me on the money front Europe isn't much better we pay 'extra' too if i remember correctly i paid $22.800 for the avp/poa/bt2500 in 2008.

Hope its a easy fix and the unit will continue for a while, but again did you have the 3d upgrade done since my problems almost seemed to be related to the upgrade.

Daniel.
post #25505 of 25965
Sorry, forgot to mention previously, no I do not have the upgrade 3d kit installed. Will enquire on that one when I go to collect the unit. However I feel I am a little late In that department seeing it is no longer available.
post #25506 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Now that we have you here gsr
I've been here in this thread for years biggrin.gif.
Quote:
any word on what you feel about the new oppo players ?.
Are you asking about the 103/105 or the brand new 103D? Obviously as a beta tester, my opinion may be somewhat biased, but I'm very happy with the Oppo line and can't say enough good things about how they run their business. I currently have a BDP-95, BDP-103D, and BDP-105 in my system as well as a PS3 Slim, several PC's, and I've got a Denon DVD-3930CI in my home office system that mostly sits around collecting dust these days. I've got the BDP-103D on a Crestron HDMI matrix switch, so it can be viewed on any TV in the house. There are a few areas where I can certainly see room for improvement (mostly in the area of playing media files off of locally attached drives or the network), but for "shiny disc" playback, I probably wouldn't trade them for anything. I'm not entirely sold on the Darbee effect (which is the key difference between the BDP-103 and BDP-103D), but it can be turned completely off and the BDP-103D has the ability to turn off all video enhancements, while the BDP-103 always has a small amount of video processing happening on the HDMI1 output.
post #25507 of 25965
Wrong thread but you started it.

Does the 103D support IP control and is it published?
post #25508 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesculus View Post

Wrong thread but you started it.

Does the 103D support IP control and is it published?
Yes it supports IP control, and it would be the same as the 103. You would need to contact Oppo for the protocol as they haven't posted it yet.
post #25509 of 25965
Hi guys,

Denon invited me as part of the Denon Owners Club to some marketing event on Thursday. It is a three hours event in a Hotel in Dusseldorf - Düsseldorf for the German speaking ones smile.gif. The European HQ is close to Dusseldorf. They will present something and ask for our feedback.

Unfortunately, I think I am legally bound to not tell anything about what I will see there. However, I promise you a glimpse which may be will clarify their strategy for the future, without saying too much, I am not allowed to.
Just to let you know. I am really looking forward to this event mainly due to our recent discussions, where will Denon be heading and the X7000 and X9000 rumors. May be I will know more tomorrow evening CET.

Cheers
Edited by Ganymed4 - 10/23/13 at 3:57pm
post #25510 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I've been here in this thread for years biggrin.gif.
I'm not entirely sold on the Darbee effect (which is the key difference between the BDP-103 and BDP-103D), but it can be turned completely off and the BDP-103D has the ability to turn off all video enhancements, while the BDP-103 always has a small amount of video processing happening on the HDMI1 output.

gsr,

I am very happy to read this. I am not a friend of artificially enhanced pictures. I do like video DSPs like the T2, doing up-scaling or the QDEO Marvell chip. This is OK but psycho-acoustics or video, this is something completely different.
Because I trust you, that you have a good and very educated eye for the picture quality - I read many of your posts in the Oppo thread - this reassures me in my own thinking.

But it is a good offer to have a 100 $ more expensive 103D over the 103, whereas the Darbee itself costs 300 US$, if I am not mistaken. However, I love my 103, it is an excellent player but I mainly use my 3800 BD for watching movies these days.
However, the network and media functions of the Oppo as well as the SACD/DSD functions of the Oppo are unparalleled for me and I wouldn't want to miss them. The Oppo 103 I have, is a really excellent player. Something you couldn't get for this money five years ago.
post #25511 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

Hi guys,

Denon invited me as part of the Denon Owners Club to some marketing event on Thursday. It is a three hours event in a Hotel in Dusseldorf - Düsseldorf for the German speaking ones smile.gif. The European HQ is close to Dusseldorf. They will present something and ask for our feedback.

Unfortunately, I think I am legally bound to not tell anything about what I will see there. However, I promise you a glimpse which may be will clarify their strategy for the future, without saying too much, I am not allowed to.
Just to let you know. I am really looking forward to this event mainly due to our recent discussions, where will Denon be heading and the X7000 and X9000 rumors. May be I will know more tomorrow evening CET.

Cheers

You are one lucky SOB smile.gif I hope you are able to make it - sucks for us about the NDA. I talked to Jeff from Denon many years ago, happened to run into him in a hotel hallway in Vegas - he was very interesting. I haven't heard of the X7000 or the X9000 but I'll try looking them up in a moment. I really have no interest in any Denon products other than the next AVP (if they make one) I honestly don't need too many significant changes. I love the large volume knob on the front. I love all the XLR outputs and the many inputs. I love the clean sound of the AVP. Of course the processing can always be improved but the thing I want most is HDMI 2.0 and plenty of room for growth - maybe even make it more modular so HDMI 2.2 would be as easy as changing out a sound card or a network card.
Edited by boe - 10/23/13 at 4:21pm
post #25512 of 25965
Well, I understand you very well and this would also be my wish, among other things.

That's why I am very curious what they will present tomorrow. I guess a new line of AV-Receivers. But my hopes are not this high, that they will present a new AVP, I guess not. If they stick to the D&M corporate policy, the most I can expect is new top level AVRs above the AVR X4000, which seems logical to me - hopefully. However, this can be also something like new network audio players, who knows.

I will let you know - in my legal bonds... cool.gif
post #25513 of 25965
OK, to tell you what we are talking here about, I will give you some more information. The e-mail came from marktforschung@denon.de which means market research at Denon Germany.

I have a confirmed invitation for the so called 'Denon Owner's Club laboratory'. The invitation says that you will be exclusively judge and check the functions of a Denon product in development - whatever this will be.
The event will take place on October 24 in the Courtyard by Marriott Hotel Dusseldorf harbor from 7 pm until 9 pm. The participants will receive a gas voucher, a Denon welcome package - whatever this will be - and food and drinks for free.

The admission is strictly limited.

Here is the German text. Maybe you can translate it. Just for your information and I will surely report about this event.

I feel really honored to be invited by Denon to this event and I highly appreciate this. Thank you Denon!

Cheers



Bestätigung zum

Owner’s Club Laboratory
Exklusiv in Düsseldorf am Do, 24.10.13

Sehr geehrter Herr,
wir freuen uns sehr, dass Sie an unserem Denon Owner’s Club Laboratory in Düsseldorf teilnehmen möchten: Auf diese Weise bewerten Sie als Erster und exklusiv das Design und die Funktionalität eines Denon Produkts, das sich noch in der Entwicklungsphase befindet.
Folgender Termin ist nun für das Denon Owner’s Club Laboratory in Düsseldorf gesetzt:
Datum: Donnerstagabend, 24.10.13 von 19.00 bis 21.00 Uhr
Ort: Courtyard by Marriott Düsseldorf Hafen, Speditionstraße 11, 40221 Düsseldorf

Parkmöglichkeiten sind direkt am Hotel und in der näheren Umgebung ausreichend vorhanden. Bitte folgen Sie nach Ankunft im Hotel der Denon Beschilderung oder fragen Sie kurz an der Rezeption nach der Denon Veranstaltung.
Wichtige Hinweise: Die Teilnehmerzahl ist streng limitiert, daher ist diese Einladung nur für eine Person gültig. Für Speisen und Getränke während des Events ist gesorgt. Sie erhalten zudem eine Reisekosten-Entschädigung in Form eines Tankgutscheins sowie ein Denon Begrüßungspaket.
Wir freuen uns auf Sie!
Ihr Denon Team
Sollten Sie am Donnerstag doch verhindert sein, geben Sie uns bitte rechtzeitig Bescheid über folgende Email-Adresse: marktforschung@denon.de
Edited by Ganymed4 - 10/23/13 at 5:04pm
post #25514 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

Hi guys,

Denon invited me as part of the Denon Owners Club to some marketing event on Thursday. It is a three hours event in a Hotel in Dusseldorf - Düsseldorf for the German speaking ones smile.gif. The European HQ is close to Dusseldorf. They will present something and ask for our feedback.

Unfortunately, I think I am legally bound to not tell anything about what I will see there. However, I promise you a glimpse which may be will clarify their strategy for the future, without saying too much, I am not allowed to.
Just to let you know. I am really looking forward to this event mainly due to our recent discussions, where will Denon be heading and the X7000 and X9000 rumors. May be I will know more tomorrow evening CET.

Cheers

Interesting, indeed more to find out (maybe that won't be under NDA) what the direction is and how the relation is between marantz and denon. We will find out (by leaks) on models anyway but getting a feel for the mood inside D&M would be nice.

Daniel.
post #25515 of 25965
Hopefully you'll get the opportunity to let them know you'd appreciate a new AVP. I have to think there is demand for a product like this as there is so little in this category to compete. Most are either really poorly executed copies such as the Onkyo, or limited output options or all silver so they throw off most users. The Anthem is one of the few units in the same general category but after loving and hating the Anthem amps, I'd have to worry about the warranty. My guess is that Denon sold plenty of AVPs but not many amps and they lumped the two together in sales instead of saying one was profitable and assuming because there was little demand for amps, then people must not be interested in preamps.
post #25516 of 25965
Hi Daniel, boe, guys your prayers have been heard.

I have just returned from the Denon Event in Dusseldorf, which is about one hour drive away from where I live. It is now 11 pm local time.

I can't tell you about the products they presented, I did not sign an NDA but we were asked to not tell anybody and I will do this. The only thing I can say it had nothing to do with new AVRs or a Pre/Pro.

To give you an impression of the event, it was held in a conference room of the Dusseldorf, Germany, Marriott Courtyard hotel. Denon invited 12 participants from their 'Owners Club' - all men over 30, mainly around 50.
If you buy new Denon equipment, you can get a warranty prolongation of one year, if you send in the registration card. In Europe the standard by law is 2 years of warranty and then Denon gives you a third year for free. This is the Denon Owner's club.
Also, four Denon employees were present, one of them Japanese. Dusseldorf is the largest Japanese community in Germany with about 8000 Japanese living there - just FYI.

As I can't tell you about the event itself, I will tell you, what the Japanese and one German D&M employee told me when I asked them our most burning questions.

1) Is Marantz now for the high-end market and Denon for the mass-market?


Answer: NO! This - I was told - is a misinterpretation. Denon is trying to attract younger people and not going into mass-market. There is no such division inside D&M group. I was assured this twice by a German and the Japanese employee.

2) Tada... Will there be a successor for the AVP?eek.gif THE question.

Answer: YES! There actually was one, they were developing it but many of their facilities - quite a lot it seems - were destroyed by the Earthquake and Tsunami and after that they gave up on further developments. This I was told by Taka-san, the Japanese employee.

Comment: Because I lived for nearly two years in Tokyo and my wife is Japanese and I speak some Japanese, Taka-san and me had a very good basis for talking.

The German employee told me, that there will be a successor for the A1 series but not too soon. In other words when, is completely open. He also mentioned this is due to the highly dynamic developments in home-theater like HDMI 2.0 and new sound-formats. He mentioned a time frame of three years and more.

Comment: Don't know if he meant ATMOS? No other new sound-format is known to me. But may be there is more to come? Also the time frame he mentioned can be interpreted as 'never'. Who knows, what is in three years these days? Money saving seems to play an important part for Denon. If such a project can be realized with not enough money, is at least questionable.


3) Is there really no upgrade kit for AVC/AVP availaible?

Answer: NO. They produced a specific number and they are simply sold out. In Europe they tried to get some from the US - nothing available.

On the more general side: One guy asked during the event, why is Denon selling different products in Japan than in Europe? The answer was the cost factor and he mentioned the 110V vs. 220V changes - this applies to the European point of view, the CE sign and the translation of the manuals. This cost easily goes up to 100.000 Euro and no unit will be sold.
Taka-san also told me, that Denon is in Japan the market-leader with 60% market share and this is the reason, why they offer different products - also more high level products - in Japan than in other countries of the world.

Denon also were very generous with gifts for our two hours stay. Everybody got one AH-D340 headphone (worth 199 Euro), a 50 Euro gas voucher, a 100 Years Denon T-shirt, key ring, scrap book, block and very nice Denon pen. I don't want to make somebody jealous here. Sorry, I apologize in advance.

It was a very friendly atmosphere and I really enjoyed participating. I had also the feeling that Denon employees were very honest to us and didn't want to hide something. Very open, very friendly.
Non-alcoholic drinks, cold wraps and sandwiches were provided. This was the first event of this kind in Europe, I was told.There will be a second one next weekend, same location.

Disclaimer: This is honestly what the two Denon employees told me on my questions. If this is the truth, I can not judge. I am just reporting, what they told me, form my very fresh memory of this event.
If somebody has other information or another opinion - fine with me. Please let me/us know. Thank you.
Edited by Ganymed4 - 10/24/13 at 3:05pm
post #25517 of 25965
Thanks SOOO much for letting us know. I now have hope as I truly love my AVP. I could live 3 more years with my current AVP - after that I think my eyes will start to wander if Denon doesn't have something. I'm pretty positive I'll have a 4K TV in 3 years and I'll be anxious to get a new prepro. Who knows, by then maybe Oppo will be in the prepro market smile.gif
post #25518 of 25965
You are very welcome boe and my pleasure.

I think this is our common interest here to get more information about the future of the AVP, even there seems to be no decisive plans by D&M to develop a successor. However, it seems they are thinking about it. Also, I forgot to ask about the numbers they produced. Too bad, even a rough estimation in thousands, would have been helpful. Sorry, but I didn't want to press the D&M guys to much, they seemed a bit tired after the event, which is understandable IMO.

Well Oppo, this could really become a new player in this market. If we think about active speakers and a completely digital chain from source to loudspeakers. May be this is the future. I read about one test in a magazine of such an all-digital-chain. But there is a lot of work to be spent on class-D amplifiers which could be in active speakers. Genelec is also doing this kind of all-digital-chain as far as I know.

Well, not now but may be in a near future. Or everything will become processor and software driven. No DACs, a digital chain up to the terminals of the class-D power amplifier.

I find this quite interesting. It seems, there is really a lot of movement and inventions in the market.
post #25519 of 25965
Quote:
...all men over 30, mainly around 50.

"Denon" men of a certain age? smile.gif
post #25520 of 25965
Not Denon men - the audience - shall I say eek.gif or mad.gif or tongue.gif now?

I say cool.gif

But everybody complained about the females missing. However, this seems to be a 'species problem' - not interested...
post #25521 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

You are very welcome boe and my pleasure.

I think this is our common interest here to get more information about the future of the AVP, even there seems to be no decisive plans by D&M to develop a successor. However, it seems they are thinking about it. Also, I forgot to ask about the numbers they produced. Too bad, even a rough estimation in thousands, would have been helpful. Sorry, but I didn't want to press the D&M guys to much, they seemed a bit tired after the event, which is understandable IMO.

Well Oppo, this could really become a new player in this market. If we think about active speakers and a completely digital chain from source to loudspeakers. May be this is the future. I read about one test in a magazine of such an all-digital-chain. But there is a lot of work to be spent on class-D amplifiers which could be in active speakers. Genelec is also doing this kind of all-digital-chain as far as I know.

Well, not now but may be in a near future. Or everything will become processor and software driven. No DACs, a digital chain up to the terminals of the class-D power amplifier.

I find this quite interesting. It seems, there is really a lot of movement and inventions in the market.

You have to have dacs at some point wink.gif

Denon made a full class-D prototype of the AVP before and dropped the idea.

Thanks for the feedback, i guess aiming for a younger segment would for most translate being in 'cheaper' markets like ipods, htib's and network based concepts. Personally i don't mind i hope they go for a younger mindset that looks funny at you if you think cd's are a good idea. Having a fresh look at that would be perfect but it should not translate to cheap. Its more about what would a rich 20-30 year old want from a system. Oppo is a good example of this new way of thinking but even better would be what if Apple would design a audio system for 10k how would it look.

3 years out for a new highend model (or better platform) doesn't sound weird to me, most of the A1 lines had the same timeframe we heard about the current A1 about 2 years before release.

Pity you can't talk about what they showed i personally hope it was around network based stuff since that would extend our avp's and poa's in nice ways if not slowly apple will take over that role in my systems.

Daniel.
post #25522 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielo View Post

Thanks for the feedback, i guess aiming for a younger segment would for most translate being in 'cheaper' markets like ipods, htib's and network based concepts. Personally i don't mind i hope they go for a younger mindset that looks funny at you if you think cd's are a good idea. Having a fresh look at that would be perfect but it should not translate to cheap. Its more about what would a rich 20-30 year old want from a system. Oppo is a good example of this new way of thinking but even better would be what if Apple would design a audio system for 10k how would it look.Daniel.

Frankly I'm not nuts about how some young people think - to them CDs and highly compressed MP3s sound just fine to them - they don't know any better. Also for most I know loudness is 100 times more important than clarity. Show them a high end audio system and all they care about is turning the volume up a loud as it goes and a muddy subwoofer is fine as long as you feel it shaking things.

I'm not too keen on what apple would design - it would have one circle you'd have to fiddle around with for 10 minutes to get to the feature you want just so it would look "clean". http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no,14299/ smile.gif I love the dedicated buttons and lights on the front of the AVP, however I think someone should have come up with a better remote than the one with the lcd. I think a more informative screen could be on the AVP than the dot display.

I heartily agree with you about the network based concept - frankly a GOOD web interface for the AVP would be what most people would probably want to use on the AVP for first time configuration.
Edited by boe - 10/25/13 at 6:52am
post #25523 of 25965
I think it's time for Denon to announce a new AVP + POA.

Anyone heard about anything?
post #25524 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by RefTheater View Post

I think it's time for Denon to announce a new AVP + POA.

Anyone heard about anything?
Reading the last page of posts just might answer that question... wink.gif
post #25525 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Reading the last page of posts just might answer that question... wink.gif

You're right.
So there will be a replacement, good news smile.gif

I just hope they keep the good looks and the famous "Silver Premium".

Some people think as Mcintosh MX-151 as the Denon AVP, as the group is the same, but i guess the AVP is better, and better looks also.

And some still think the new Marantz Pre/Pro is equivalent to Denon AVP/POA confused.gif
post #25526 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by RefTheater View Post

You're right.
So there will be a replacement, good news smile.gif

I just hope they keep the good looks and the famous "Silver Premium".

Some people think as Mcintosh MX-151 as the Denon AVP, as the group is the same, but i guess the AVP is better, and better looks also.

And some still think the new Marantz Pre/Pro is equivalent to Denon AVP/POA confused.gif

If there will be a replacement for the AVP is still open. I reported what they said but how they said it, sounded for me only 50% sure. They are focusing on completely different things now, smaller, not such castles, forts or cathedrals like the AVP. What I can also say about this event, I guess, is that we had to judge different designs for the products and I have to say stylish and elegant but also from looking at it, really rugged build and very nice materials. Somehow typical Denon. You could see that this is the Denon signature. I liked it.

I don't know enough about the MX-151 to say something about that. I also couldn't find a picture of an open MX-151, then I could tell. The front-panel looks ugly to me, with these plastic switches on front. I like the AVP much more.

The AVP may be better in some ways and as the D&M guy told me, this is a very good pre/pro - he had to say that, didn't he. However, I believe it is. But on the other hand from the sheer building quality the AVP is a $10k pre/pro, the 8801 a $3k one. I think, this says it all. I also strongly doubt, the 8801 sounds better, just because it is newer and has the newer op-amps, CineMike is now offering as an upgrade for the AVP for 1500 Euros. Amazing, this guy knows how to make money biggrin.gif

I didn't want to start a new discussion here about CM. From my side, over.

But my conclusion so far about a new AVP is: It will take some time. If Denon was really developing a new A1 line and an AVP and this was stopped by the Earthquake in Japan and looking at the current developments in home-theatre, I think, this will take at least two years, plus one for development, before we see a new AVP.

We have reached somehow stability in the development but the next things are just knocking on the front door. Doing such expensive development in these money saving times, I would want my unit to last, at least for five years, without upgrade, which might even not be possible in these fast moving times.

In my opinion the only lasting concept could be completely processor and software based. If the hardware is the same and I only need to update the software, that would be a marketing model for me and also an advantage for the customer. Well, just my thoughts.
post #25527 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

Hi Daniel, boe, guys your prayers have been heard.

I have just returned from the Denon Event in Dusseldorf, which is about one hour drive away from where I live. It is now 11 pm local time.

I can't tell you about the products they presented, I did not sign an NDA but we were asked to not tell anybody and I will do this. The only thing I can say it had nothing to do with new AVRs or a Pre/Pro.

To give you an impression of the event, it was held in a conference room of the Dusseldorf, Germany, Marriott Courtyard hotel. Denon invited 12 participants from their 'Owners Club' - all men over 30, mainly around 50.
If you buy new Denon equipment, you can get a warranty prolongation of one year, if you send in the registration card. In Europe the standard by law is 2 years of warranty and then Denon gives you a third year for free. This is the Denon Owner's club.
Also, four Denon employees were present, one of them Japanese. Dusseldorf is the largest Japanese community in Germany with about 8000 Japanese living there - just FYI.

As I can't tell you about the event itself, I will tell you, what the Japanese and one German D&M employee told me when I asked them our most burning questions.

1) Is Marantz now for the high-end market and Denon for the mass-market?


Answer: NO! This - I was told - is a misinterpretation. Denon is trying to attract younger people and not going into mass-market. There is no such division inside D&M group. I was assured this twice by a German and the Japanese employee.

2) Tada... Will there be a successor for the AVP?eek.gif THE question.

Answer: YES! There actually was one, they were developing it but many of their facilities - quite a lot it seems - were destroyed by the Earthquake and Tsunami and after that they gave up on further developments. This I was told by Taka-san, the Japanese employee.

Comment: Because I lived for nearly two years in Tokyo and my wife is Japanese and I speak some Japanese, Taka-san and me had a very good basis for talking.

The German employee told me, that there will be a successor for the A1 series but not too soon. In other words when, is completely open. He also mentioned this is due to the highly dynamic developments in home-theater like HDMI 2.0 and new sound-formats. He mentioned a time frame of three years and more.

Comment: Don't know if he meant ATMOS? No other new sound-format is known to me. But may be there is more to come? Also the time frame he mentioned can be interpreted as 'never'. Who knows, what is in three years these days? Money saving seems to play an important part for Denon. If such a project can be realized with not enough money, is at least questionable.


~.

thankyou very much for this, its a great insight for us. the timing suggested is very much in line with previous A line releases, which is typically every ten years. a flagship all out affair like the avp I doubt many organisations can afford to bring out with a completely new design any quicker. not something fault free, bug free and truly ground breaking anyways as the a series tend to be. all this bodes well as like the AVP now we should see prototypes in next 3 years or so and release in 4 years ? having owned the avp so far for 5 years and with its recent 3D audyssey etc upgrades can happily keep going till the new model comes along. I really dont want / need / care to buy anything else smile.gif

ps great to hear the line some are pushing that denon is now for the mass market and marantz is for the high end is balderdash ! well I knew that good to hear that assurance from both the denon eu and japan representatives. hopefully that puts those impressions to bed ! smile.gif

so in the mean continue to kick back, feet up and keep enjoying what is an awesome piece of gear in this avp smile.gif long may it live biggrin.gif
post #25528 of 25965
+1 for your interpretation. If we are thinking positive - and I see no reason why not, then it is, as you wrote. At least, let's hope so.

And I would like to ask Denon to notice, that there are many people here, loving their AVP and I would like to extent this to the AVC and who would love to buy a successor.

However, Denon is somehow saving costs and the German guys of D&M mentioned to me several times the cost they have before they have sold one single piece.
My proposal for Denon would be, that they should check the interest of the target customers before - piece of cake today, using the Internet and see what their customers really want and for what features they would be willing to spend money.
I really enjoyed this evening and felt taken serious by Denon as a customer and I have to say, they were very generous. So why not having more of this kind of meetings in the future also to find out, what customers want in the direction of high-end equipment?

However, it is no secret, that the current focus of many companies is on headphones and stereo equipment. AV equipment seems to be a bit pausing right now.

But I appreciate, that the companies are just starting to change the one-way relation to the customer into a two-way relation. I highly appreciate this and I am much more willing to buy Denon in the future, if I am treated well as a customer. Just my feelings after this event.
post #25529 of 25965
HELP eek.gif

To bring this place back to life, I hope someone can help with my setup problem. I am hooking up the 3D upgraded AVP for the first time after getting it back from the shop, and I am not getting too far. Can't get the connection with the POA to work...got the switches on the POA set to AVP, cable in the right jack..the GUI takes the commands, but when I go to the Link Check, it freezes on waiting screen and never clears...and does not communitcate with the POA.

I was very nervous about this upgrade and I am hating it already...any ideas would be appreciated!
post #25530 of 25965
Also I have no light where the green light should be on the AVP when it is powered on....
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