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Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 855

post #25621 of 25965
Many good ideas! Keep them coming! I especially hope a reader can provide a name and number and location of a good service person...
post #25622 of 25965
^^

Where are you located? Have you checked the Denon website for service centers close to you? Look here.
post #25623 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

If you are located in the USA, I am pretty sure that the upgrade carried a 90 day warranty from the authorized service center that performed the upgrade. So, it sounds like you are caught in a finger pointing war. Since the service center is no longer authorized, it seems that Denon should help you out here by providing service either by shipping it back to Denon or by coordinating service with another authorized service center. I would demand Denon do this and tell them you are done dealing with the previous service center because they obviously are not helping here.

Your other course of action, would be to take it to another authorized service center, get it fixed and then send the bill to the previous service center. If they don't reimburse you, then take them to small claims court.

I suspect that the problem may be with the firmware updates and if this is the case, you probably wouldn't be looking at a lot of money anyway for another service center to "fix" it. Of course, you have shipping and or drive time involved so it potentially is a PITA but what are your options now?

Does Denon have any sort of warranty arbitration committee? Sounds like that is what you need to invoke but by doing so, you are sitting on a brick for an even longer period.

EDIT: You mentioned INSTALLER - was the upgrade performed by an installer or a service center? I am not sure what the difference would be if any but if this is just an authorized installer, they may not have had the know how to perform the upgrade or had the electronic bench equipment required to troubleshoot correctly. I also wonder if they even knew how to perform the software portions of the upgrade. Sounds like your issue should be resolved with Denon's help due to inept or incompetent work by their "installer".

Try taking your problem to the following gent, if that fails I will provide you with the contact information for the Denon Service Manager at the head office here in Mahwah:

This is the main OEM service center for Denon, they did my AVP and were very customer orientated.

Steve Perfetto
Customer Service

PanurgyOEM | 701 Ford Road | Rockaway, NJ | 07866
t.973.625.4056 x254 | f.973.625.9489
http://www.panurgyoem.com
post #25624 of 25965
Thanks for all the ideas! Late Friday I finally got a call from a tech who seemed very knowledgeable about the unit, and did not dispute or dismiss my report of its "symptoms" since the upgrade. He said that he would get a plan of action from his service manager and that I should hear from him Monday or Tuesday. I was very relieved to see a little movement, and hopefully it will keep moving.

I hope to eventually have a happy ending to post! In the meantime, resurrected our old 5805 to get us through the holidays. The sound quality is a backwards step after the AVP though, especially for music.
post #25625 of 25965
Question on HDMI configuration to Oppo 103 post HDMI 1.4 upgrade. 2 cables or 1 from the Oppo?

Hello,

I have the AVP with the HDMI upgrade. I have an Oppo 103.

I'd like to playback movies in the highest quality possible including 3D movies. Currently I have 1 cable going from my Oppo to my preamp that goes to my TV.

Is there any advantage to using 2 cables out from the Oppo now that I have the HDMI upgrade on my AVP? If so what is the cable configuration please?
Edited by boe - 12/14/13 at 12:17pm
post #25626 of 25965
Well, I mean there are some real Oppo experts in this thread but I also have one 103 - same as you - and will try to answer the question.

I have to admit, I have never tried it and use HDMI out 1 on the Oppo to my AVP and then HDMI out from the AVP to my projector. In the Oppo thread there were big discussions going on, which HDMI out is better. Usually, you use HDMI 1 for video, because it has the Marvell-Chip connected to it and you can tweak the parameters in the Oppo.
Before HDMI 2, there is 'only' a Mediatek-Chip, if I am not mistaken. There you cannot do 4k or many other things, you can do with the Marvell-Chip. Therefore, a natural choice would be to use HDMI 1 for video and 2 for sound. You can set this in the Oppo menu.

However, some people in the thread reported, that they are experiencing a loss of lip synchronization using this kind of setup, most likely due to different processing times in the respective devices.

Well, if you want to hear my personal opinion: Splitting up the signals, gives you no advantages. I remember that there was some saying about the A1-UD, that you should use different HDMI outs for video and audio. Personally I don't know what the advantage would be? I can think only of disadvantages - two different clocks, two cables etc.

The HDMI cable is capable of transmitting audio and video in 2D without problems, so why splitting it up? But on the other hand, you can just try it out. See for yourself, if this gives you any kind of advantage. Each chain is different and the equipment used also differs. What is in one chain an advantage, can be in another one a disadvantage. Also for 3D, things may be different. I don't have a 3D display.

Good Luck.
post #25627 of 25965
Thanks for your time and response. I did some testing with 1 HDMI out only. I am experiencing audio delay/lipsync issues with 3D movies like Avatar. I don't seem to have that issue with streaming. I'll do some more testing shortly and may post in the oppo thread. I see an option on audio delay on the Oppo - couldn't get it right. I'll try turning lip sync off on the AVP.

I the 2 hdmi cable scenario do both HDMI 1 and 2 on the oppo go to the AVP and then you set up some sort of mixing?
Edited by boe - 12/14/13 at 2:27pm
post #25628 of 25965
^
Are you experiencing lip sync issues only with 3D Bluray movies? Is the audio behind or ahead of the video?

Typically, the only reason to use both HDMI outputs on the Oppo is if the AVR (or in our case, surround sound processor) can't handle 3D or 4K and your TV does. So unless you have a 4K TV, there would typically be no reason to use both HDMI outputs.

However, there is another caveat that applies to the Denon AVP - DSD capabilities. HDMI1 out on the BDP-103 and BDP-105 cannot transmit DSD - it has to be converted to PCM. HDMI2 out on the Oppo can transmit DSD. So if you listen to SACD's and like to send DSD to the AVP, then that would be a reason to use both outputs.

Note that the BDP-103D can send DSD over both HDMI1 and HDMI2. The issue with the BDP-103 and BDP-105 is that the QDEO chip's HDMI transmitter doesn't support DSD, the VRS chip on the BDP-103D does.
post #25629 of 25965
Have a quick question about the AVP, I performed a search in the thread but didn't find the exact answer. What is the power consumption of the a1hdci, max consumption when the unit is being driven strenuously(just to be safe and get a wattage number that isn't low). I have the avp running a 7.2 system if that matters. I'm asking because I'm wanting to make sure my surge protector isn't overloaded, currently have my Ps4, Xbox 1 and universal remote IR base station plugged into the the surge protector and want to add the avp.
post #25630 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

^
Are you experiencing lip sync issues only with 3D Bluray movies? Is the audio behind or ahead of the video?

Typically, the only reason to use both HDMI outputs on the Oppo is if the AVR (or in our case, surround sound processor) can't handle 3D or 4K and your TV does. So unless you have a 4K TV, there would typically be no reason to use both HDMI outputs.

When he puts the sound of the club hitting the ball occurs before you see it impact on screen. You don't have that sync issue when playing back in 2d.

I do have a 4K TV - perhaps that is the issue.
Edited by boe - 12/14/13 at 10:45pm
post #25631 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorO View Post

Thanks for all the ideas! Late Friday I finally got a call from a tech who seemed very knowledgeable about the unit, and did not dispute or dismiss my report of its "symptoms" since the upgrade. He said that he would get a plan of action from his service manager and that I should hear from him Monday or Tuesday. I was very relieved to see a little movement, and hopefully it will keep moving.

I hope to eventually have a happy ending to post! In the meantime, resurrected our old 5805 to get us through the holidays. The sound quality is a backwards step after the AVP though, especially for music.
Glad to hear your getting closer to A resolution DoctorO..smile.gif
post #25632 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

When he puts the sound of the club hitting the ball occurs before you see it impact on screen. You don't have that sync issue when playing back in 3d.

I do have a 4K TV - perhaps that is the issue.
confused.gif I think you're saying that the audio is ahead of the video, but the wording has me somewhat confused. And what do you mean by not having the sync issue when playing back in 3D - do you mean in 2D? If the audio is ahead of the video, you ought to be able to compensate for that in either the AVP or the Oppo by using the audio delay - when you adjust those does it at least make a difference, even if you can't adjust it enough to compensate for all of the delay? If audio is lagging video, it implies that there's a delay in the video processing in your TV. The standard suggestion is to disable as much of the extra processing as possible in the TV to help reduce any delay.
post #25633 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digione View Post

Try taking your problem to the following gent, if that fails I will provide you with the contact information for the Denon Service Manager at the head office here in Mahwah:

This is the main OEM service center for Denon, they did my AVP and were very customer orientated.

Steve Perfetto
Customer Service

PanurgyOEM | 701 Ford Road | Rockaway, NJ | 07866
t.973.625.4056 x254 | f.973.625.9489
http://www.panurgyoem.com

Thanks! Exactly the kind of info I was looking for! If Denon HQ stalls out again, I will try that route. The senior tech indicated that they are mostly likely going to authorize my AVP being sent to the same place.
post #25634 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Thanks for your time and response. I did some testing with 1 HDMI out only. I am experiencing audio delay/lipsync issues with 3D movies like Avatar. I don't seem to have that issue with streaming. I'll do some more testing shortly and may post in the oppo thread. I see an option on audio delay on the Oppo - couldn't get it right. I'll try turning lip sync off on the AVP.

I the 2 hdmi cable scenario do both HDMI 1 and 2 on the oppo go to the AVP and then you set up some sort of mixing?

You are very welcome and you also got a more 'qualified' answer by gsr about this topic. I consider him a very trustworthy source about everything related to Oppo.

However, I would like to answer the question in your last sentence of your post. This was discussed here before and you cannot mix HDMI inputs. To my knowledge no AVR or Pre/Pro can do this.
You can mix analog inputs and HDMI, if you want to call this mixing.The only reason to use two HDMI outputs IMO is what gsr mentioned: The lack of outputting DSD streams on HDMI 1 on the Oppo 103. I didn't know this and learned it by gsr's post.
I already listened to SACDs from my Oppo 103 via HDMI 1 and found the sound slightly different to CD. Now I know why. Thank you gsr for sharing your knowledge here.
May be I will try this in the future and connect HDMI 2 to an unused HDMI input on the AVP, label it SACD and compare both.

Always good to be here and learn something smile.gif
post #25635 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

confused.gif I think you're saying that the audio is ahead of the video, but the wording has me somewhat confused. And what do you mean by not having the sync issue when playing back in 3D - do you mean in 2D? If the audio is ahead of the video, you ought to be able to compensate for that in either the AVP or the Oppo by using the audio delay - when you adjust those does it at least make a difference, even if you can't adjust it enough to compensate for all of the delay? If audio is lagging video, it implies that there's a delay in the video processing in your TV. The standard suggestion is to disable as much of the extra processing as possible in the TV to help reduce any delay.

Sorry - I had it typed wrong. With 2D playback everything is in sync. With 3D, the sound precedes the action. I tried adjusting the delay on the Oppo and it was horrible to do - you'd select audio options and then you have to take at least a minute as you'd have to go through all the intro items on the disc, then play, 3d, intros again and then select the chapter 3. even with skip and ff it takes over a minute to get to the scene again.

On the AVP, I see where the autosync on and off is but can't seem to find the latency option for audio - I'm also concerned if I do that it will fix 3d but then screw up 3d playback.
post #25636 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

You are very welcome and you also got a more 'qualified' answer by gsr about this topic. I consider him a very trustworthy source about everything related to Oppo.

However, I would like to answer the question in your last sentence of your post. This was discussed here before and you cannot mix HDMI inputs. To my knowledge no AVR or Pre/Pro can do this.
You can mix analog inputs and HDMI, if you want to call this mixing.The only reason to use two HDMI outputs IMO is what gsr mentioned: The lack of outputting DSD streams on HDMI 1 on the Oppo 103. I didn't know this and learned it by gsr's post.
I already listened to SACDs from my Oppo 103 via HDMI 1 and found the sound slightly different to CD. Now I know why. Thank you gsr for sharing your knowledge here.
May be I will try this in the future and connect HDMI 2 to an unused HDMI input on the AVP, label it SACD and compare both.

Always good to be here and learn something smile.gif
I missed the point about mixing the HDMI outputs from the Oppo, so thanks for catching that.

The normal scenario when using both outputs is that HDMI1 goes direct to the display and HDMI2 goes to the AVR (or, in our case the surround sound processor). So when you want to watch video from the Oppo, you would switch the display to the HDMI input that the Oppo's HDMI1 output is connected to, which means that there would be no OSD from the AVR (such as no visual when adjusting volume, for example). Connecting both outputs from the Oppo to different inputs on the AVP should work as you suggest so that a 2nd input on the AVP can be used for SACD, but the Oppo's HDMI1 output still gets used when watching video to take advantage of the better video processing.
post #25637 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Sorry - I had it typed wrong. With 2D playback everything is in sync. With 3D, the sound precedes the action. I tried adjusting the delay on the Oppo and it was horrible to do - you'd select audio options and then you have to take at least a minute as you'd have to go through all the intro items on the disc, then play, 3d, intros again and then select the chapter 3. even with skip and ff it takes over a minute to get to the scene again.

On the AVP, I see where the autosync on and off is but can't seem to find the latency option for audio - I'm also concerned if I do that it will fix 3d but then screw up 3d playback.
Adjusting sync on the Oppo OR the AVP will affect both 2D and 3D playback. If sound precedes the video only for 3D, that points (IMHO) to extra video processing happening in your display for 3D. I'm not at all familiar with your display, so I can only make the generic recommendation to find a way to turn off any extra processing that's happening. I'd suggest checking the thread for your display for some guidance as it's likely you're not the only one experiencing this.
post #25638 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Adjusting sync on the Oppo OR the AVP will affect both 2D and 3D playback. If sound precedes the video only for 3D, that points (IMHO) to extra video processing happening in your display for 3D. I'm not at all familiar with your display, so I can only make the generic recommendation to find a way to turn off any extra processing that's happening. I'd suggest checking the thread for your display for some guidance as it's likely you're not the only one experiencing this.

Thanks. I'll post there.
post #25639 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by sk576c View Post

Have a quick question about the AVP, I performed a search in the thread but didn't find the exact answer. What is the power consumption of the a1hdci, max consumption when the unit is being driven strenuously(just to be safe and get a wattage number that isn't low). I have the avp running a 7.2 system if that matters. I'm asking because I'm wanting to make sure my surge protector isn't overloaded, currently have my Ps4, Xbox 1 and universal remote IR base station plugged into the the surge protector and want to add the avp.

If i remember correctly is 75 watts.
post #25640 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Thanks for your time and response. I did some testing with 1 HDMI out only. I am experiencing audio delay/lipsync issues with 3D movies like Avatar. I don't seem to have that issue with streaming. I'll do some more testing shortly and may post in the oppo thread. I see an option on audio delay on the Oppo - couldn't get it right. I'll try turning lip sync off on the AVP.

I the 2 hdmi cable scenario do both HDMI 1 and 2 on the oppo go to the AVP and then you set up some sort of mixing?

very strange. there would be many of us running oppos into the avp. I for one run the cambridge 751bd that runs the same chip set as the oppo. hdmi from player into the avp, then connect up hdmi out from avp to display. no lip synch issues here.
post #25641 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by jomark911 View Post

If i remember correctly is 75 watts.

150w according to the avland page smile.gif
http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/denon/0820/avpa1hda/avpa1hda.asp
post #25642 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by alebonau View Post

very strange. there would be many of us running oppos into the avp. I for one run the cambridge 751bd that runs the same chip set as the oppo. hdmi from player into the avp, then connect up hdmi out from avp to display. no lip synch issues here.
. I hadn't played with 3D till I got my new TV - never an issue with 2D. My new TV is doing the 4K upscaling.
post #25643 of 25965
Thanks al.
post #25644 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

. I hadn't played with 3D till I got my new TV - never an issue with 2D. My new TV is doing the 4K upscaling.

Well I guess the upscaling process is adding some delay, if you run sound and video on two HDMI. As gsr already mentioned, this can be one reason.

Is this also happening, when you run the HDMI connection via the AVP? Does this work at all? If this doesn't work and you want your TV to do the upscaling, you should switch it off in the Oppo. I think it is under video format. You can leave 3D on Auto in this case. However, if the Oppo recognizes via HDMI, that there is a 4k capable display, it may switch into 4k mode and does the upscaling work, instead of the TV. This should then definitely work via the AVP, whereas a 4k signal from the Oppo might not work. However it should in my understanding but you have to switch off the picture improvement function in the AVP. The REALTA T2 chip in the AVP is not capable of processing 4k pictures. But it should be capable to switch 3D 2k or Full-HD signals.

If you are upscaling the 2k 3D signal to 4k on your display, then it would be logical, that there is a bigger delay than with 2k 2D upscaling to 4k because your TV has to work on two pictures. I don't know, how this is internally in the TV processed. It could be that there is one picture per time processed and the first one is stored internally until the second is ready and then, when both are ready outputted to the screen. However, this is only a guess. I have no 4k or even a 3D capable display. Still in HD stone age eek.gifbiggrin.gif - but I like it...
Edited by Ganymed4 - 12/16/13 at 3:29pm
post #25645 of 25965
Hello,

I'm currently running 1 HDMI direct from the Oppo to the AVP and then from there to the TV. I also tried it Oppo to TV direct - sound through the TV>

I tried upscaling on and off from the Oppo - same thing.

Again 2D works fine with any settings - only 3D has the delay.
post #25646 of 25965
That means you have a delay in the chain Oppo - AVP - 4k Display? Well, you might not see a difference, if you switch off the upscaling in the Oppo. However, if you use one HDMI there should be no delay. If there is still a delay, you should set the Oppo to Off for 4k and set the lip sync delay in the AVP to match the picture.

This would be my proposal. However, this doesn't give you a universal setting for 2D and 3D movies. I have to think about this.
post #25647 of 25965
IIRC, the Oppo can't scale 3D content to 4K, so the scaling to 4K has to happen in the TV for 3D. Given that the audio is ahead of the video, the issue is undoubtedly that the TV is doing some extra processing of 3D that delays the video. I'd still suggest inquiring in the thread for the TV as I really doubt this issue would be isolated to just the Oppo / AVP combo with that TV.
post #25648 of 25965
Good point. wink.gif
post #25649 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post

Hello,

I'm currently running 1 HDMI direct from the Oppo to the AVP and then from there to the TV. I also tried it Oppo to TV direct - sound through the TV>

I tried upscaling on and off from the Oppo - same thing.

Again 2D works fine with any settings - only 3D has the delay.
If the 4K TV has A HDMI ARC/Audio return channel as A work around to the Audio Delay caused by the
TV's 4k/3D Video processing you could connect the Blu ray player to TV Then from the ARC HDMI to the AVP..

"The Audio Return Channel in HDMI 1.4 enables a TV, via a single HDMI cable,
to send audio data “upstream” to an A/V receiver or surround audio controller"
post #25650 of 25965
Quote:
Originally Posted by fperra View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganymed4 View Post

You can open it and clean it, if your environment is quite 'contaminated' with cat hairs and dust. Your warranty has expired, I assume. Then this should be no problem.

You should also check your connections. Sometimes there is a soldering problem. I once had brand new cables but they had problems and I thought it would be the amp, but it was the cable.

However, your problem sounds to me like a case for the service. This is not normal.

Well, the popping is really irritating, so I just ordered a Marantz AV8801. After I get it I'll send the Denon out for repair and either sell it or sell the Marantz, depending which one I like best. Time will tell.rolleyes.gif
Hi fperra
Just wondering if you ever got your AVP Repaired, If so what did the popping issue turn out to be ?..
Did you end up Preferring the Marantz AV8801 over the AVP or Vice versa..

Cheers
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