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Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 223

post #6661 of 25153
10/4/08 at 6:19pm
Yes the Toshiba A30 is an HD DVD player, but it can can output 480i/24 from SD-DVD's over HDMI. I should have clarified, but I thought I was on that topic.

I'm not sure what they do here for HDTV I think the standards are all over the place - it's a mess.
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post #6662 of 25153
10/4/08 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

How did you set them both up. I can't get the Denon AVP to detect the Windows Media Center... It just says "Empty...

Is there a specific folder I need to store the music files in on the computer? Are there things I need to set up between the AVP and the computer?

What I did I have my music in a folder I made. I made sure the Windows media is the default to play them and I also made sure I share the folder by right clicking the folder and selecting share.
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post #6663 of 25153
10/4/08 at 8:22pm
I apologize for the length of this post, but I just have to share something. I can scarcely believe it, but after months of incredible delays and setbacks I FINALLY should be able to fire up my AVP for the first time tomorrow or perhaps the day after! I've had the AVP and most of the rest of my HT gear just sitting in limbouninstalledwhile one unbelievable delay after another occurred.

Everything from a contractor who had to have emergency heart bypass surgery while right in the middle of things, to delays from three different A/V installers that strung me along for weeks at a time before flaking out for one reason or another. I've come to realize that the limited number of professionals in this arena is the price one pays for not living in a major metropolitan city.

The work I need done isn't all that complex, but there are a few little twists to it that make it not your average DIY job. I have a few physical challenges to deal with that would have made it next to impossible for me to try to manage it, but I was finally down to that option provided I could find a decent helper or two. However, even that was proving to be difficult.

I won't bore everyone one with the details, but thanks to my lovely wife, I found out just today that there will be a couple of pros that do some of the premier installs in one of the largest cities in the Southeastern US at my door first thing in the morning.

Tomorrow is our wedding anniversary, and this is her gift to me! After seeing how discouraged I was getting over this (to say nothing of the disarray her house has been in) she contacted a friend who happened to have friends in the right places. She arranged for the site visit while I was at work and handled all the details. I am dumbfounded at her thoughtfullness and caring. I guarantee this is one anniversary gift I'll never forget.

Now, with all that said.and provided anyone has read this farI'd like to (finally) get to a question. Given what everyone has learned so far about the setup of the AVP, are there any major things I should definitely AVOID doing when powering up for the first time? (BTW, I will be hardwired to my network, so I think I have that issue covered.)

I'm phrasing it in terms of things I may want to avoid because thanks to this thread (over the last several months, I feel I've gotten to know so many of you), the wiki, and even the cryptic manualI do have resources I can turn to when finally starting to configure it all.

However, it's been so long since I read this thread (I got so discouraged, I just stopped trying to keep up)and my time before first powering up is so limitedI just wanted to see if I could get a quick tip or warning about anything I need to be aware of definitely doing or not doing when first powering up.

Sorry for sounding somewhat desperate and unprepared, guysbut this turn of events has caught me by surprise. Normally, I would have everything written up in meticulous detail and have committed good chunks of the manual to memory by now. I'm sure things will go fine, but right now I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed.

Thanks,

-Dean
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post #6664 of 25153
10/4/08 at 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutterman View Post

I apologize for the length of this post, but I just have to share something. I can scarcely believe it, but after months of incredible delays and setbacks I FINALLY should be able to fire up my AVP for the first time tomorrow or perhaps the day after! I’ve had the AVP and most of the rest of my HT gear just sitting in limbo…uninstalled…while one unbelievable delay after another occurred.

Everything from a contractor who had to have emergency heart bypass surgery while right in the middle of things, to delays from three different A/V installers that strung me along for weeks at a time before flaking out for one reason or another. I’ve come to realize that the limited number of professionals in this arena is the price one pays for not living in a major metropolitan city.

The work I need done isn’t all that complex, but there are a few little twists to it that make it not your average DIY job. I have a few physical challenges to deal with that would have made it next to impossible for me to try to manage it, but I was finally down to that option provided I could find a decent helper or two. However, even that was proving to be difficult.

I won’t bore everyone one with the details, but thanks to my lovely wife, I found out just today that there will be a couple of pros that do some of the premier installs in one of the largest cities in the Southeastern US at my door first thing in the morning.

Tomorrow is our wedding anniversary, and this is her gift to me! After seeing how discouraged I was getting over this (to say nothing of the disarray her house has been in) she contacted a friend who happened to have friends in the right places. She arranged for the site visit while I was at work and handled all the details. I am dumbfounded at her thoughtfullness and caring. I guarantee this is one anniversary gift I’ll never forget.

Now, with all that said….and provided anyone has read this far…I’d like to (finally) get to a question. Given what everyone has learned so far about the setup of the AVP, are there any major things I should definitely AVOID doing when powering up for the first time? (BTW, I will be hardwired to my network, so I think I have that issue covered.)

I’m phrasing it in terms of things I may want to avoid because thanks to this thread (over the last several months, I feel I’ve gotten to know so many of you), the wiki, and even the cryptic manual…I do have resources I can turn to when finally starting to configure it all.

However, it’s been so long since I read this thread (I got so discouraged, I just stopped trying to keep up)…and my time before first powering up is so limited…I just wanted to see if I could get a quick tip or warning about anything I need to be aware of definitely doing or not doing when first powering up.

Sorry for sounding somewhat desperate and unprepared, guys…but this turn of events has caught me by surprise. Normally, I would have everything written up in meticulous detail and have committed good chunks of the manual to memory by now. I’m sure things will go fine, but right now I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed.

Thanks,

-Dean

Hi Dean, just like im glad things are starting to work out for you. Like yourself I live in a city where we are limited by professional audio technicians. Luckily there starting to come out in my city.

It's good to see that you have a good wife, like myself mine is absolutley wonderful.My wife has tolerated many upgrades and never really complained at all.

A tip before powering up make sure all HDMI plugs are plugged in, never pull them out if or plug in if AVP power is on.(Could cause damage to hdmi card). You will have a few firmware updates, never go wireless always wired. When doing Audyssey, read giomania Audyssey write up, its on his signature.

Feel free to ask as many questions you like, most here are happy to help.
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post #6665 of 25153
10/4/08 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

A tip before powering up make sure all HDMI plugs are plugged in, never pull them out if or pug in if AVP power is on.(Could cause damage to hdmi card)....

Feel free to ask as many questions you like, most here are happy to help.

Thanks, Frank. Just the kind of info to have. This seems only logical, but in the middle of hooking things up, this is just the kind of thing that could easily be over looked. Thanks.
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post #6666 of 25153
10/4/08 at 10:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Yes the Toshiba A30 is an HD DVD player, but it can can output 480i/24 from SD-DVD's over HDMI. I should have clarified, but I thought I was on that topic.

I'm not sure what they do here for HDTV I think the standards are all over the place - it's a mess.

Oops, missunderstood what it actually does, the Toshiba upconverts SD-DVD to 1080p/24fps -same as the AVP does now. It does a very good job of it actually.

I tried both the the Denon 3930ci & Toshiba HD A30 and they each output 480i at 30fps over HDMI with the DVD's I played.
Without any testing gear, and subjectively at best, I'd have to say the AVP does a slightly better job than the Toshiba.
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post #6667 of 25153
10/4/08 at 10:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber View Post

How did you set them both up. I can't get the Denon AVP to detect the Windows Media Center... It just says "Empty...

Is there a specific folder I need to store the music files in on the computer? Are there things I need to set up between the AVP and the computer?

Well on the Denon AVP I went into Network Setup and made sure DHCP was set to "on" and then entered in the AVP's MAC address (found in the Network Info page on the AVP GUI menu) into my router to give the AVP access to WMP11.



On WMP11 first click on "library" and then down to "Media Sharing".




After that the Denon icon with a check mark "should appear in the window. click "allow" and if all goes as it should, the AVP will have the music contents of WMP11 when you select "Media Server".









And in order for your music to play through WMP11, it must only be in .WAV, FLAC (plugin required), or WMA Lossless (MP3 also but I'm sure you're not interested in those). Also you must designate those files to play through WMP11. For me since I used to have all of my music on iTunes in Apple Lossless, I had to re-rip all of my collection to .WAV into WMP11 (a very lengthy process). If most of your music is already in .WAV then all you need is to let WMP11 search for them and add them to its library.






Seth
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post #6668 of 25153
10/4/08 at 10:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutterman View Post

Thanks, Frank. Just the kind of info to have. This seems only logical, but in the middle of hooking things up, this is just the kind of thing that could easily be over looked. Thanks.

I can tell you its one of those things i've definitley overlooked in my time.
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post #6669 of 25153
10/4/08 at 11:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutterman View Post

I apologize for the length of this post, but I just have to share something. I can scarcely believe it, but after months of incredible delays and setbacks I FINALLY should be able to fire up my AVP for the first time tomorrow or perhaps the day after! I’ve had the AVP and most of the rest of my HT gear just sitting in limbo…uninstalled…while one unbelievable delay after another occurred.

Everything from a contractor who had to have emergency heart bypass surgery while right in the middle of things, to delays from three different A/V installers that strung me along for weeks at a time before flaking out for one reason or another. I’ve come to realize that the limited number of professionals in this arena is the price one pays for not living in a major metropolitan city.

The work I need done isn’t all that complex, but there are a few little twists to it that make it not your average DIY job. I have a few physical challenges to deal with that would have made it next to impossible for me to try to manage it, but I was finally down to that option provided I could find a decent helper or two. However, even that was proving to be difficult.

I won’t bore everyone one with the details, but thanks to my lovely wife, I found out just today that there will be a couple of pros that do some of the premier installs in one of the largest cities in the Southeastern US at my door first thing in the morning.

Tomorrow is our wedding anniversary, and this is her gift to me! After seeing how discouraged I was getting over this (to say nothing of the disarray her house has been in) she contacted a friend who happened to have friends in the right places. She arranged for the site visit while I was at work and handled all the details. I am dumbfounded at her thoughtfullness and caring. I guarantee this is one anniversary gift I’ll never forget.

Now, with all that said….and provided anyone has read this far…I’d like to (finally) get to a question. Given what everyone has learned so far about the setup of the AVP, are there any major things I should definitely AVOID doing when powering up for the first time? (BTW, I will be hardwired to my network, so I think I have that issue covered.)

I’m phrasing it in terms of things I may want to avoid because thanks to this thread (over the last several months, I feel I’ve gotten to know so many of you), the wiki, and even the cryptic manual…I do have resources I can turn to when finally starting to configure it all.

However, it’s been so long since I read this thread (I got so discouraged, I just stopped trying to keep up)…and my time before first powering up is so limited…I just wanted to see if I could get a quick tip or warning about anything I need to be aware of definitely doing or not doing when first powering up.

Sorry for sounding somewhat desperate and unprepared, guys…but this turn of events has caught me by surprise. Normally, I would have everything written up in meticulous detail and have committed good chunks of the manual to memory by now. I’m sure things will go fine, but right now I’m feeling a bit overwhelmed.

Thanks,

-Dean

You my friend are a very lucky guy! While I'm not married, I have friends who are and wished their wives were like yours.

Sorry to hear about all the setbacks. But thanks to your wife, all things are on track! And within a day or two the moment you have been so patiently waiting for will be a reality. Here's a BIG congrats to you!

And after waiting so long for this moment, I can understand you wanting to make sure you know everything (the important stuff), before you fire it up for the first time. Besides making sure you have all your speakers,subs, and AV gear connected, including like Frank said the HDMI's, I think you're good to go!

Can't wait to hear you initial impressions, and here's hoping that the AVP wows you as much as I'm thinking it will.


Seth
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post #6670 of 25153
10/4/08 at 11:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutterman View Post

Now, with all that said.and provided anyone has read this farI'd like to (finally) get to a question. Given what everyone has learned so far about the setup of the AVP, are there any major things I should definitely AVOID doing when powering up for the first time?
Thanks,

-Dean

Hey Dean! That's great news for you. You asked for tips, so here's mine:

As you know, this level of equipment is very complex, flexible, and capable. So I think there's a temptation to dive in head first and do things in the most complicated ways just because we can. But imagine if you were to go in and adjust all the color, gamma, NR, and other settings in a fancy new TV right away; you'd have a really hard time figuring out why it doesn't look right because so many variables have been tweaked.

Similarly with the AVP, I'd really suggest doing things the easiest way to start with. For example, you can start with basic interconnects and speaker wiring and always decide later if you want to do things like bi-wire, bridge, or bi-amp. The default settings yield remarkably good results in the AVP, so that's a great place to start. Then from there, you can always play with one source at a time, learn about things like the video processing options, and decide whether and how you want to use them. Take your time getting familiar with the online and/or onscreen GIU, whichever you prefer to use. Don't be in a hurry to run Audyssey- get a sense of how everything sounds without it first.

It takes some time to get comfortable with all the options, capabilities, and yes, little quirks of this processor. If you expect to hook everything up, adjust a bunch of settings that you saw recommended somewhere, turn it on, and just sit back and admire it, you'll be disappointed and frustrated.

You see, the AVP isn't just a piece of electronic equipment. It's a learning adventure. If you think of it that way, you'll have a lot more fun with it as you get to know each other!
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post #6671 of 25153
10/4/08 at 11:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Well on the Denon AVP I went into Network Setup and made sure DHCP was set to "on" and then entered in my MAC address.



On WMP11 first click on "library" and then down to "Media Sharing".




After that the Denon icon with a check mark "should appear in the window. click "allow" and if all goes as it should, the AVP will have the music contents of WMP11 when you select "Media Server".











Seth

Hey Seth did you have to enter your mac address? I did not enter my mac address at all. Where would one find the mac address? I never entered it and it works like a dream.
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post #6672 of 25153
10/5/08 at 1:08am
I've suddenly noticed going to add new hardware I keep getting update failed.
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post #6673 of 25153
10/5/08 at 1:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackox View Post

I am sure !
That is another little misunderstanding in wiki.
DVDs are 480i60, movies if well encoded are flagged based on the 3:2 cadence in order to mark the original 24 frame rate.
Your PC software player just gets the flag info and do IVTC based on that.
Find an very old movie stored on single layer DVD (first gen DVD) there is a big chance there is no flag, you should get 60 frame rate info instead of 24.

Of course a movie in 24, 48, 72, 96 or 120 will be smoother than 60, 60 not being the original frame rate.

Let me just add that flagging was almost never done correctly sometimes by mistake sometimes by design. The result was that deinterlacer chips have todo very complex things to find these 24frames back. Also europe uses 2:2 an a speedup, anime is different and on tv things can get mixed. The cheap was to just zapp 50% of the lines and scale it never shows problems that way but you loose content. Highend chips don't do that and don't look at flags at all so as a result have to be very smart and watch several frames up a head and figure things out. At the moment there are 3 chiplines that are far ahead of the rest : abt (dvdo), genum, and realta (hqv) the avp uses the realta T2.

More info and animations on the tech :

http://www.hqv.com/technology.cfm

Daniel.
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post #6674 of 25153
10/5/08 at 2:30am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Hey Seth did you have to enter your mac address? I did not enter my mac address at all. Where would one find the mac address? I never entered it and it works like a dream.

Hi Frank,

First off I need to clarify something from my above post. When I mentioned that I needed to enter in the MAC address, I should have put "enter MAC address into router" (I will correct this). When looking at the Network Info page on the AVP it shows the MAC address. Interestingly on my router I had to add the MAC address before it recognized my AVP.

So I guess a lot depends on what brand router one uses and what it requires in order to allow a particular device permission.


Seth
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post #6675 of 25153
10/5/08 at 2:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Hi Frank,

First off I need to clarify something from my above post. When I mentioned that I needed to enter in the MAC address, I should have put "enter MAC address into router" (I will correct this). When looking at the Network Info page on the AVP it shows the MAC address. Interestingly on my router I had to add the MAC address before it recognized my AVP.

So I guess a lot depends on what brand router one uses and what it requires in order to allow a particular device permission.


Seth

Thanks Seth, I started to think did mine match by fluke.
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post #6676 of 25153
10/5/08 at 4:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesculus View Post

...
The thought here right now is that it’s the speakers and not the amps. The amps are probably neutral in this game. The speakers (old Klipsch Horns) probably over accentuated the highs to make up for the limits on the old AVP preamp. This was most noticed around 4 khz. When I dropped the 4khz channel by 3db it seemed to warm up the audio considerably. The two adjacent channels were dropped by 1.5 db. It still felt full and rich but seemed to reduce and in many cases eliminate the harshness.

We will run it for a few days using this method. So far the wife thinks it’s a good improvement and just needs a few days to settle in.

I am still curious why the Audyssey modes sound so flat and also don't deal with this harshness. I know that Audyssey Flat is supposed to be used for music but I must say that Direct (Stereo in my case now with Manual EQ) sounds much fuller and richer. I think I might go off to the Audyssey thread and seek guidance over there.

For now I am still in the hunt for the next 48 hours while I try this new method.

You are finding what I believe to be the most common issue with how a system sounds, and that’s the speaker / room interface.

Yes, amps and pre’s and sources do sound different, and have an effect, but in terms of proportion, nothing like the room itself, closely followed by the speakers.

When I trouble shoot someone’s system, I always start with the room, then the speakers and work my way back up the chain.
You’d be amazed how often it’s a misswired speaker, or a speaker with blown driver, or just poor placement relative to the room and speaker design.

I believe your experience is also showing that in your room, that particular speaker design has some resonant modes in the midrange (whether in the speaker, or speaker / room interaction ???).
Knocking down the EQ at that point removes the energy form that resonant mode and sounds more pleasant.

I would have thought that an Audyssey EQ run would have identified those resonances and decreased the levels at those points..
Also, I’d recommend running with regular Audyssey curve (vs Flat), as it has a small dip in the 4 to 5K region precisely because on avg. people prefer less energy there (as evidenced by your families feedback).

The final point I’ll make is that those Klipsch’s are probably not linear in terms of their power profiles, and even though Audyssey runs fine at 75dB, the speakers resonances at 4K might be much greater when playing at 85dB levels, yet the Audyssey never ‘saw’ them during measurements and does not correct for them.

This is why I proposed a whole new volume sensitive EQ processing (much like DynanicEQ) but based on actual multi-SPL-Level measurements in this post in the Audyssey thread.

Bottom line, I might recommend trying some different speakers as well, you might find non-horn based speakers more to your liking.
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post #6677 of 25153
10/5/08 at 6:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

...And after waiting so long for this moment, I can understand you wanting to make sure you know everything (the important stuff), before you fire it up for the first time. Besides making sure you have all your speakers,subs, and AV gear connected, including like Frank said the HDMI's, I think you're good to go!

Can't wait to hear you initial impressions, and here's hoping that the AVP wows you as much as I'm thinking it will.


Seth

Quote:
Originally Posted by progprog View Post

...You see, the AVP isn't just a piece of electronic equipment. It's a learning adventure. If you think of it that way, you'll have a lot more fun with it as you get to know each other!

Thanks for the tips and the well-wishes, guys. The advice to take it one step at a time will be what I'll need to keep in mind the most. I'm anxious to catch up with the rest of you in the understanding of this marvelous machine. However, I'm installing a complete system from the ground up so I've got a pretty big learning curve. My collection of owner's manuals are spread out all over my kitchen table this morning.

I am somewhat fortunate as I have Jeff Myer from Accucal (some of you will recognize that name) coming out next week to do an ISF calibration on my Pioneer Kuro display. He'll also calibrate the audio using a RTA and work up a room treatment plan. He doesn't use Audessey, btw, so I'll have room to tweak some more if I choose to do so. But of course, for the REAL expertise, I always have you guys! I'll report back in a few days how things have gone. (BTW...JonFo, that setup spreadsheet looks like it's going to come in very handy. Very nice of you to post that up.) - Dean
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post #6678 of 25153
10/5/08 at 6:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutterman View Post

(BTW...JonFo, that setup spreadsheet looks like it's going to come in very handy. Very nice of you to post that up.) - Dean

link to this please?


Congratulations on your new setup: go slow and do not get overwhelmed!!
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post #6679 of 25153
10/5/08 at 9:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

link to this please?


Congratulations on your new setup: go slow and do not get overwhelmed!!

Thanks for the good wishes, Mark. The spreadsheet I was referring to was the one JonFo put up on the Wiki on this page. He has a link there from which you can download the Excel spreadsheet.
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post #6680 of 25153
10/5/08 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shutterman View Post

..
I am somewhat fortunate as I have Jeff Myer from Accucal (some of you will recognize that name) coming out next week to do an ISF calibration on my Pioneer Kuro display. He'll also calibrate the audio using a RTA and work up a room treatment plan. He doesn't use Audessey, btw, so I'll have room to tweak some more if I choose to do so. But of course, for the REAL expertise, I always have you guys! I'll report back in a few days how things have gone. (BTW...JonFo, that setup spreadsheet looks like it's going to come in very handy. Very nice of you to post that up.) - Dean


Dean,

Glad to hear the spreadsheets are coming in handy.

As for Jeff's proposal to not do Audyssey, I absolutely do not understand why he'd not use a very, very sophisticated measurement and EQ process.
I have ultra-high quality measurement tools, $6K in speaker processors with their own EQ, and I still use Audyssey, as it gives better results in mids and highs than other options.

A well practiced individual can get great results if they know how and where to place the mics (Giomanias guide is a great synthesis of our collective knowledge).
I'd at least request he run a measurement, you can always leave it off. But I bet you won't

Another tip, go ahead and run the firmware updates now, before the setup starts.
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post #6681 of 25153
10/5/08 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

You are finding what I believe to be the most issue with how a system sounds, and that’s the speaker / room interface.

One of my problems is that I did the best I could for speaker placement when the room was built, but as you can see in the attached picture, aestetics came before accoustics.

Also you will note that my room itself adds to the brightness overall (tile floors, tin ceiling, lots of windows, hard wall surfaces, even wood furniture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

...

I believe your experience is also showing that in your room, that particular speaker design has some resonant modes in the midrange (whether in the speaker, or speaker / room interaction ???).
Knocking down the EQ at that point removes the energy form that resonant mode and sounds more pleasant.

My wife and I are thinking the same (trouble with two people with advanced science degrees :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

I would have thought that an Audyssey EQ run would have identified those resonances and decreased the levels at those points..

I believe you are correct, and I am suprised Audyssey could not deal with this. And in fact when I looked at the channel levels it actually over accentuated it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

Also, I’d recommend running with regular Audyssey curve (vs Flat), as it has a small dip in the 4 to 5K region precisely because on avg. people prefer less energy there (as evidenced by your families feedback).

Well the AVP does not allow you to copy the regular Audyssey curve, just the flat. I suppose I could try to find what the band curve looks like and manually recreate it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

The final point I’ll make is that those Klipsch’s are probably not linear in terms of their power profiles, and even though Audyssey runs fine at 75dB, the speakers resonances at 4K might be much greater when playing at 85dB levels, yet the Audyssey never ‘saw’ them during measurements and does not correct for them.

I am a bit confused here. I understand the channel setting feature in the AVP as well as Audyssey runs at 75 db. Where does the 85 db come from? Or are you just stating that when I drive the higher volumns that this reasonance becomes more pronounced (ie at 85 db)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

This is why I proposed a whole new volume sensitive EQ processing (much like DynanicEQ) but based on actual multi-SPL-Level measurements in this post in the Audyssey thread.

Bottom line, I might recommend trying some different speakers as well, you might find non-horn based speakers more to your liking.

As much as I would like to consider this the WAF is not going to allow it. Up to this point she actually liked the sound of the horn speakers over regular speakers. To her the AVP is the problem, not the speakers. Getting rid of the harshness should help and hopefully will give us the increased clarity and dynamics of the new AVP without the harshness.
LL
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post #6682 of 25153
10/5/08 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

Oops, missunderstood what it actually does, the Toshiba upconverts SD-DVD to 1080p/24fps -same as the AVP does now. It does a very good job of it actually.

I tried both the the Denon 3930ci & Toshiba HD A30 and they each output 480i at 30fps over HDMI with the DVD's I played.
Without any testing gear, and subjectively at best, I'd have to say the AVP does a slightly better job than the Toshiba.


Yeah that's better ... 480i24 recording does not existe ! And no display can take in such a resolution.
I knew the A30 could do 1080p24 on DVD playback, that just means it does IVTC at 24hz, that is not relevant of the DVD encoding (which is always 480i60 with video or film cadence, falgs or no flags).
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post #6683 of 25153
10/5/08 at 10:53am
Hi all,

Once upon a time there was a function accessed through Auto Set Up menu > Option > Room Eq > all or assign. After I updated the firmware isn't there anymore. Could you guys verify that for me? I wonder if it is a GUI change or a firmware bug.

Thanks
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post #6684 of 25153
10/5/08 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

Hi all,

Once upon a time there was a function accessed through Auto Set Up menu > Option > Room Eq > all or assign. After I updated the firmware isn't there anymore. Could you guys verify that for me? I wonder if it is a GUI change or a firmware bug.

Thanks

I still got it after all the firmware updates i've done.

//Mats
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post #6685 of 25153
10/5/08 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonFo View Post

Dean,

Glad to hear the spreadsheets are coming in handy.

As for Jeff's proposal to not do Audyssey, I absolutely do not understand why he’d not use a very, very sophisticated measurement and EQ process.
I have ultra-high quality measurement tools, $6K in speaker processors with their own EQ, and I still use Audyssey, as it gives better results in mids and highs than other options.

A well practiced individual can get great results if they know how and where to place the mics (Giomanias guide is a great synthesis of our collective knowledge).
I’d at least request he run a measurement, you can always leave it off. But I bet you won’t

Another tip, go ahead and run the firmware updates now, before the setup starts.

I was also surprised to hear he doesn't use Audyssey, JonFo. After all, he said he likes using such things as the SMS-1 for sub EQ, so I don't think he's against the idea of EQ in principal. (BTW, instead of the SMS-1, I ended up with the Antimode 8033 to go along w/my JL Audio f113. Nice discussion of this unit in the subwoofer forum for anyone who doesn't know about it.) However, I figured I'd have him set things up as best as he's able to get it according to his measurements...and I'll add the recommended room treatments. Once that's done, I plan to delve into the Audyssey application on my own. It would take me awhile to develp the level of expertise to use Audyssey Pro, so I'm hopeful I'll get decent results with what's on board with the AVP.

About the firmware updates...yes, I plan to let them run overnight to install before I begin configuring things. One step at a time as our friend progprog has advised...
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post #6686 of 25153
10/5/08 at 12:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesculus View Post

As much as I would like to consider this the WAF is not going to allow it. Up to this point she actually liked the sound of the horn speakers over regular speakers. To her the AVP is the problem, not the speakers. Getting rid of the harshness should help and hopefully will give us the increased clarity and dynamics of the new AVP without the harshness.

Yep, that room looks like a "brightness fest" so many hard surfaces including the tile floor, couch and coffe table...

Some simple things like wider (at least the same width of the speakers) thicker throw rug and a thick cloth cover on the coffee table will help a fair bit. You're likely getting wicked reflections off the floor and table coming at you at different times.

You might benefit from an Audyssey "Pro" calibration, especially the latest 3.0 version where you can pre-set target curves to suit your tastes.
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post #6687 of 25153
10/5/08 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobman View Post

I still got it after all the firmware updates i've done.

//Mats

Thanks for your reply.

...who knows what else is missing in my GUI now. Mhmm, I hate doing hard reset...
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post #6688 of 25153
10/5/08 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

Thanks for your reply.

...who knows what else is missing in my GUI now. Mhmm, I hate doing hard reset...

I had a couple of weird things happen post upgrade an a hard reset was the answer to getting things back on track. After the last 110min upgrade I decided to re-do my Audyssey Pro calibration and it wouldn't recongize my AVP until I reset.
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post #6689 of 25153
10/5/08 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesculus View Post

One of my problems is that I did the best I could for speaker placement when the room was built, but as you can see in the attached picture, aestetics came before accoustics.

Also you will note that my room itself adds to the brightness overall (tile floors, tin ceiling, lots of windows, hard wall surfaces, even wood furniture.

My wife and I are thinking the same (trouble with two people with advanced science degrees :-)

I believe you are correct, and I am suprised Audyssey could not deal with this. And in fact when I looked at the channel levels it actually over accentuated it.

Yes, highly reflective surfaces + speakers inset within the furniture + usual horn-loaded speaker issues = high probability of resonances that will be very objectionable.

The inset into furniture is probably one of the issues, but that typically manifests lower in the range (200 to 700hz). And no getting around that your environment is best described as 'live'.

A larger area rug plus some fiber hangings on the walls behind and around the listening area would really help. A creative design challenge for the spouse?

The fact that Audyssey did not capture this leads me to also suggest that you redo the measurements with a slight variation: vary the height of the microphone by 6" on at least two of the 8 positions (close to #1 pos). Also, use a fairly tight pattern spaced over the couch. Ensure that the mic sees' all walls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesculus View Post

Well the AVP does not allow you to copy the regular Audyssey curve, just the flat. I suppose I could try to find what the band curve looks like and manually recreate it.

Hum, that's too bad about the copy.
But I meant to just run with Audyssey ON (non-flat) and see if that's better for you (after you re-do measurements).

No worries with having to do the Audyssey over again, I did five or so non-Pro's before I got one that really worked.
And with the Pro setup, it still took two before I got a result I'm satisfied with (and now a third, as I got ver. 3.0 with target curve editing).

I'll try and find and post the standard target curve they use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aesculus View Post

I am a bit confused here. I understand the channel setting feature in the AVP as well as Audyssey runs at 75 db. Where does the 85 db come from? Or are you just stating that when I drive the higher volumes that this resonance becomes more pronounced (ie at 85 db)?

The 85dB is just that, a playback level. This is typically a level at which most people listen to a movie at home. And my point is it can be energizing resonances that were not when the measurements are taken at 75dB.
That is one of the main thesis in my post I linked to, as not only are speakers non-linear across the power spectrum, but the room interface definitely is.

As a data point, my large electrostats would energize a high-frequency mode (around 7K) in my room, and the only way to tame it was to apply room treatments. Much better results now since then, as I can now listen to stuff at 95dB SPL avg (very loud) and its fine.

Finally, your horn speakers should actually help from a directivity standpoint, as the more directional the delivery, the less engagement of room surfaces. But horns also suffer from resonances of their own.
No such thing as a free lunch in speakers or acoustics
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post #6690 of 25153
10/5/08 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by orologio View Post

Hi all,

Once upon a time there was a function accessed through Auto Set Up menu > Option > Room Eq > all or assign. After I updated the firmware isn't there anymore. Could you guys verify that for me? I wonder if it is a GUI change or a firmware bug.

Thanks

It's gone on mine as well. A GUI change it seems.

This correletates to the change I noted earlier, that the PARA button will now toggle the various Dynamic EQ / Dynamic Volume combinations as being new in this edition.

You can still adjust the baseline Audyssey setting per source in the usual
Menu->Parameters->Audio->Audyssey Settings
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