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Official Denon AVP-A1HD/AVP-A1HDCI and POA-A1HD/POA-A1HDCI owners thread. - Page 4

post #91 of 25092
3/17/08 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodSonics View Post

All,

I have a question and possibly a test I am hoping you can help with. It has to do with how the sub works with 2-CH Stereo and Direct modes.

My understanding is that for two channel music the the sub behavior is determined by the Stereo/Direct Setup Menu. I am seeing something different though.

When I put in a CD, and use Stereo mode, I get sound through the sub as expected. But when I use the Direct mode, I don't get sound through the sub. Can you help? Does your AVP do this? Is this behavior correct?

Below is how I have things set up. Note: this also happens when I stream music via the Network.

Main Setup:
Front Speakers = Small
Crossover = 60hz

Stereo/Direct Setup (Basic):
Front Speakers = Small
Crossover = 60hz

Stereo/Direct Setup (Custom):
Front Speakers = Small
Crossover = 60hz

Thanks,
Darrell

Try setting sub to LFE+main
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post #92 of 25092
3/17/08 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

I experienced the same exact thing, and for the life of me couldn't understand why no bass was going to the sub. I contacted Denon tech support and what they told me to do worked. I later found it in the owners manual.

What you need to do is go into "Audio Setup" and then into 2 channel Direct/Stereo. In there you will need to select subwoofer to "On", than select "LFE+Main". These settings are for 2 channel only and will not affect any other setting you have made.

Seth

Seth & Shamus,

I vagually remember this same issue with the 3806, now that you mention it. I can't believe they haven't fixed this BUG, 2-3 years later. But anyway...

Doesn't the LFE+MAIN setting send frequencies below 60 hz to the sub and the speaker (too much bass)? I want 60+hz to go to the speaker, and below 60hz to the sub. I don't want frequencies below 60hz to go to both the speakers and the sub.

Thanks,
Darrell
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post #93 of 25092
3/17/08 at 3:11pm
There's no bug - just poor documentation.

Anyway, Darrell - if you want frequencies below 60 sent to the sub, and above 60 to mains, then set the mains to SMALL, crossover to 60 and sub to LFE, and use STEREO or STANDARD modes. As simple as that.

"DIRECT" mode means direct - ie no bass management. So the mains won't have the 60Hz crossover, and will get full-range signals. The only way to get sub output with non-LFE material in DIRECT mode is to set LFE+MAIN, duplicating some bass from the direct mains.

If you want your mains to have a 60Hz crossover, then you don't want DIRECT mode.

It's clear that Denon's documentation and menu structure is poor, because in my years on this forum it's always Denon owners who get confused about sub output like this. But the Denon kit appears to work fine, as long as you select the right options.
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post #94 of 25092
3/17/08 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMO View Post

There's no bug - just poor documentation.

Anyway, Darrell - if you want frequencies below 60 sent to the sub, and above 60 to mains, then set the mains to SMALL, crossover to 60 and sub to LFE, and use STEREO or STANDARD modes. As simple as that.

"DIRECT" mode means direct - ie no bass management. So the mains won't have the 60Hz crossover, and will get full-range signals. The only way to get sub output with non-LFE material in DIRECT mode is to set LFE+MAIN, duplicating some bass from the direct mains.

If you want your mains to have a 60Hz crossover, then you don't want DIRECT mode.

It's clear that Denon's documentation and menu structure is poor, because in my years on this forum it's always Denon owners who get confused about sub output like this. But the Denon kit appears to work fine, as long as you select the right options.

I think of it like this: this option allows you to run different bass management settings if you are listening to high quality stereo sources. By default, the direct modes does not use base management because this yields the highest quality, but you can override this behaviour if you wish.

I agree completely on the manual - it simply does not go into enough detail. Perhaps we should ask DenonJeff to get Denon to write a reference manual for these units.
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post #95 of 25092
3/17/08 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMO View Post

There's no bug - just poor documentation.

Anyway, Darrell - if you want frequencies below 60 sent to the sub, and above 60 to mains, then set the mains to SMALL, crossover to 60 and sub to LFE, and use STEREO or STANDARD modes. As simple as that.

"DIRECT" mode means direct - ie no bass management. So the mains won't have the 60Hz crossover, and will get full-range signals. The only way to get sub output with non-LFE material in DIRECT mode is to set LFE+MAIN, duplicating some bass from the direct mains.

If you want your mains to have a 60Hz crossover, then you don't want DIRECT mode.

It's clear that Denon's documentation and menu structure is poor, because in my years on this forum it's always Denon owners who get confused about sub output like this. But the Denon kit appears to work fine, as long as you select the right options.

KMO,

Thanks for the reply.

Your explanation makes sense except for the menu section named Stereo/Direct, where you set the speaker size and crossover point. It implies that Bass Management for direct and Stereo modes are the same.

The documentation that outlines the Stereo and Direct modes mention that Direct modes turns of Tone/EQ functions. One would think it would mention BM too. I really think this is a bug, or just a bad design decision.

Either way, I guess I have the choice of running the front speakers as full range or duplicating the bass. It doesn't look like I can simply cross at 60hz unless I want to include the Tone/EQ circuitry too. Its a shame, because you can hear the difference when you include the Tone/EQ circuitry.

Darrell
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post #96 of 25092
3/17/08 at 6:33pm
How does one "hard save" settings with the AVP? I know it stores them for a week, even in the event of a power outage...but for some reason yesterday I lost all of my settings! Video, Audio, everything. It went back to default settings. It would have been nice to have saved these parameters somewhere and simply reload them.

How do you do that? Thanks!
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post #97 of 25092
3/17/08 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodSonics View Post

Its a shame, because you can hear the difference when you include the Tone/EQ circuitry.

Darrell

Doesnt the tone defeat get rid of that?
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post #98 of 25092
3/17/08 at 6:55pm
Had a lengthy conversation, apparently some units have the issue and others don't. Denon is not going to admit to it being a "known problem" right now as they feel it is isolated to "some" units.

Long story short after my lengthy discussion with the dealer is that he has been able to get another AVP from the second batch where they apparently have fixed the issue without a doubt. I was advised that during the creation of the first batch they discovered a "possible" problem and Denon wanted to be very proactive and overly cautious.

The reason this dealer and Denon rep / engineering felt it was better to be safe was because this install is a "remote" install. Meaning that it is being done far away and the hassle of having this installed and there be a problem isn't worth waiting a week or two.

He managed to get Denon rep to get me a unit when he goes somewhere (can't remember where) this week, supposedly Thurs or Fri he'll have it and ready to ship for Monday on the pallet. The dealer said that he is extra cautious when it comes to installs as problems = $$$ especially in my case as to have everything installed and programmed is going to be many thousands of dollars. In fact I have to sign a contract that states if equipment or "customer" issues arise that aren't the fault of the installer that I still have to pay them for the work and to come back. That's where the problems = $$$ comes in.

I'd say to everyone if you have an AVP already don't worry you have 3 yr warranty perhaps your AVP was already corrected. I didn't have to post the information in the first place but like I said you guys (AVS) for many years has been extremely helpful and I do what I can which is very little to try to help others.
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post #99 of 25092
3/17/08 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentium7 View Post

Had a lengthy conversation, apparently some units have the issue and others don't. Denon is not going to admit to it being a "known problem" right now as they feel it is isolated to "some" units.

Long story short after my lengthy discussion with the dealer is that he has been able to get another AVP from the second batch where they apparently have fixed the issue without a doubt. I was advised that during the creation of the first batch they discovered a "possible" problem and Denon wanted to be very proactive and overly cautious.

The reason this dealer and Denon rep / engineering felt it was better to be safe was because this install is a "remote" install. Meaning that it is being done far away and the hassle of having this installed and there be a problem isn't worth waiting a week or two.

He managed to get Denon rep to get me a unit when he goes somewhere (can't remember where) this week, supposedly Thurs or Fri he'll have it and ready to ship for Monday on the pallet. The dealer said that he is extra cautious when it comes to installs as problems = $$$ especially in my case as to have everything installed and programmed is going to be many thousands of dollars. In fact I have to sign a contract that states if equipment or "customer" issues arise that aren't the fault of the installer that I still have to pay them for the work and to come back. That's where the problems = $$$ comes in.

I'd say to everyone if you have an AVP already don't worry you have 3 yr warranty perhaps your AVP was already corrected. I didn't have to post the information in the first place but like I said you guys (AVS) for many years has been extremely helpful and I do what I can which is very little to try to help others.

Are you 100% sure its the pre/pro and not the 5308? There have been an alarming amount of owners having to swap out their potentially overheated units.
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post #100 of 25092
3/18/08 at 12:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Are you 100% sure its the pre/pro and not the 5308? There have been an alarming amount of owners having to swap out their potentially overheated units.


Don't even count on it as being for the pre/pro. Let alone worry about if it also for the 5308.
So far what he has mentioned is really only hearsay second hand information. That has yet to be backed up, and confirmed by anyone who is in a position that would really know.
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post #101 of 25092
3/18/08 at 1:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Don't even count on it as being for the pre/pro. Let alone worry about if it also for the 5308.
So far what he has mentioned is really only hearsay second hand information. That has yet to be backed up, and confirmed by anyone who is in a position that would really know.

True, but none the less I want to thank Pentium7 for bringing this to our attention in the first place. I for one would rather know - even if it turns out to be nothing at all in the long run.
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post #102 of 25092
3/18/08 at 1:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Are you 100% sure its the pre/pro and not the 5308? There have been an alarming amount of owners having to swap out their potentially overheated units.

More than 100% sure, I ordered both and there were several conversations on the matter. We spoke for 10-15 min yesterday on the AVP exclusively. With a 3 yr warranty if there is a problem I wouldn't be too concerned with it right now, it is only the video board and obviously if it overheated you'll know about it pretty quickly. As time goes on the information would be better documented, perhaps it is just getting hotter than they wanted with additional testing and they are being overcautious.
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post #103 of 25092
3/18/08 at 2:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodSonics View Post

Your explanation makes sense except for the menu section named Stereo/Direct, where you set the speaker size and crossover point. It implies that Bass Management for direct and Stereo modes are the same.

I agree that's immensely unclear. But as far as I can tell, in DIRECT mode, only the Subw. Mode and Crossover settings on that screen have any effect (and Crossover only if you set Subw. Mode to LFE+MAIN). The main channels aren't processed in DIRECT mode, so the other settings do nothing.

The one exception about DIRECT processing is that you have the option of allowing Room EQ for DIRECT mode. Now, that's an odd option, particularly for analogue inputs. One of the points of DIRECT mode for analogue inputs is that it bypasses the ADCs and DACs - to do any bass management or similar means digitising the input, processing, then converting back to analogue. In Direct mode the analogue 2-channel inputs are normally wired straight to the front pre-outs. But if Room EQ is enabled and selected, the digital path is used. You can see when it's going direct analogue by the AL24 lights going out.

Quote:


Either way, I guess I have the choice of running the front speakers as full range or duplicating the bass. It doesn't look like I can simply cross at 60hz unless I want to include the Tone/EQ circuitry too. Its a shame, because you can hear the difference when you include the Tone/EQ circuitry.

Really? I'd be surprised if there was any real physical Tone/EQ circuitry - it's normally done in the DSP. I'd be a little bit skeptical about whether there was a difference between "DIGITAL INPUT+STEREO+LARGE+TONE DEFEAT+ROOM EQ OFF" and "DIGITAL INPUT+DIRECT"; I'd expect exactly the same data to be reaching the DACs. Certainly there will be a difference with analogue inputs though, as described above. And PURE DIRECT might make a difference by reducing noise on the final analogue stages.
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post #104 of 25092
3/18/08 at 4:11am
I'm onboard now too!

First basic tests are all good, 7.1 output works but the display shows Dolby PLII or Multi-Channel when I put a DTS HD-MA disc in

Has anyone tried a DTS HD-MA disc? if so what comes up on the AVPs display for you?

Cheers,

Curious
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post #105 of 25092
3/18/08 at 4:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddimberio View Post

How does one "hard save" settings with the AVP? I know it stores them for a week, even in the event of a power outage...but for some reason yesterday I lost all of my settings!

I've lost settings on two different 5308's. By any chance did you have Zone 2 active when you turned the unit off right before you lost your settings?

I describe how to save settings here.
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post #106 of 25092
3/18/08 at 5:24am
George, I watched "No Country For Old Men" in DTS-HD MA and that's what showed up on the front panel of the unit.
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post #107 of 25092
3/18/08 at 5:48am
Franin,

I cannot PM you - have you disabled PMs?

New batches are expected worldwide at the end of March and then again at the end of April!

Mark
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post #108 of 25092
3/18/08 at 5:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB View Post

Franin,

I cannot PM you - have you disabled PMs?

New batches are expected worldwide at the end of March and then again at the end of April!

Mark


No Mark, If im not on your buddy list you have to tick box on bottom to send to members not on buddy list.

Frank
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post #109 of 25092
3/18/08 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

No Mark, If im not on your buddy list you have to tick box on bottom to send to members not on buddy list.

Frank

No, added you to the buddy list but still no good. Getting the following message:

Quote:


Franin has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.
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post #110 of 25092
3/18/08 at 6:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB View Post

No, added you to the buddy list but still no good. Getting the following message:

Should be able to, Al sent me a message awhile back.I have 4 messages in my inbox. Anyway as PM'd they did not care MarkB, the guy working just said we don't know what going happen don't know about the second shipment. It's not even ordered.Could you imagine how upset I was today.Im sick of waiting and cannot rely on "I don't know when" or "You might have to wait a few months". I guess there watching to see how well there going to sell in the shops while here I am waiting, a genuine buyer who cant have one.
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post #111 of 25092
3/18/08 at 6:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Should be able to, Al sent me a message awhile back.I have 4 messages in my inbox. Anyway as PM'd they did not care MarkB, the guy working just said we don't know what going happen don't know about the second shipment. It's not even ordered.Could you imagine how upset I was today.Im sick of waiting and cannot rely on "I don't know when" or "You might have to wait a few months". I guess there watching to see how well there going to sell in the shops while here I am waiting, a genuine buyer who cant have one.

Well it does not make any sense at all - I would take it further and try to get your deposit back. I don't know about the laws where you are, but if someone did that to me here I would take it as far as possible. How can they hold your money but not give you an ETA on the arrival of a unit? It's bloody outrageous.

Demand an ETA or your deposit back. If they refuse to give you one or the other tell them that you are taking it further.
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post #112 of 25092
3/18/08 at 6:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB View Post

Well it does not make any sense at all - I would take it further and try to get your deposit back. I don't know about the laws where you are, but if someone did that to me here I would take it as far as possible. How can they hold your money but not give you an ETA on the arrival of a unit? It's bloody outrageous.

Demand an ETA or your deposit back. If they refuse to give you one or the other tell them that you are taking it further.

They can't hold your money, require a refund, shop somewhere else ASAP as the next shipment is by end of month. I hope you used a credit card. If they can't produce the merchandise and no guarantees of when you have ever right as a consumer to get your money back. Unless you signed some special conditions for a special order etc, but if you signed nothing you have more of the law in your favor.
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post #113 of 25092
3/18/08 at 7:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nethomas View Post

George, I watched "No Country For Old Men" in DTS-HD MA and that's what showed up on the front panel of the unit.

NCFOM is PCM, and DD, only
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post #114 of 25092
3/18/08 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curious George View Post

I'm onboard now too!

First basic tests are all good, 7.1 output works but the display shows Dolby PLII or Multi-Channel when I put a DTS HD-MA disc in

Has anyone tried a DTS HD-MA disc? if so what comes up on the AVPs display for you?

Cheers,

Curious

hi curious, from memory from my 4308 it should say DTS-HD MSTR on the front panel display. as will show dolby digital + for hd dvds or other discs truehd with that format as well.

what disc and player are you using. as you know with the ps3 you wont get dts-hd ma and if your feeding off the tosh xe1 with hdmi you need to go into the players menu and put it into digital direct mode so it bitstreams and then the denon will pick it up to decode. additionally depending on the disc some need to go select the dts-hd ma track from disc menu to select as sound track.

happy listening !
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post #115 of 25092
3/18/08 at 8:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pentium7 View Post

More than 100% sure, I ordered both and there were several conversations on the matter. We spoke for 10-15 min yesterday on the AVP exclusively. With a 3 yr warranty if there is a problem I wouldn't be too concerned with it right now, it is only the video board and obviously if it overheated you'll know about it pretty quickly. As time goes on the information would be better documented, perhaps it is just getting hotter than they wanted with additional testing and they are being overcautious.

Thanks
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post #116 of 25092
3/18/08 at 10:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franin View Post

Should be able to, Al sent me a message awhile back.I have 4 messages in my inbox. Anyway as PM'd they did not care MarkB, the guy working just said we don't know what going happen don't know about the second shipment. It's not even ordered.Could you imagine how upset I was today.Im sick of waiting and cannot rely on "I don't know when" or "You might have to wait a few months". I guess there watching to see how well there going to sell in the shops while here I am waiting, a genuine buyer who cant have one.

I also tried to send you a PM but got the same message.

If other areas of Australia are getting shipments of AVP-A1HD's, then there is no good reason for your area not to. As far as I know, everyone else who pre-ordered theirs have received them. I really think your dealer is jerking you around. And him saying that you can't get your deposit back is ludicrous. Maybe you can contact Denon directly about your situation and have them contact your dealer.

If it turns out he has no good reasons for not getting you your unit, this will reflect poorly on him as a Denon dealer. You have been waiting ever so long for your AVP, and a nice person like you deserves so much better treatment. It's only right that you get your deposit back.

I hope that there is still a way for you to get an AVP, we really like having you around bud.

Please let us know what happens. You have many friends here that care.



Seth
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post #117 of 25092
3/18/08 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

I also tried to send you a PM but got the same message.

If other areas of Australia are getting shipments of AVP-A1HD's, then there is no good reason for your area not to. As far as I know, everyone else who pre-ordered theirs have received them. I really think your dealer is jerking you around. And him saying that you can't get your deposit back is ludicrous. Maybe you can contact Denon directly about your situation and have them contact your dealer.

If it turns out he has no good reasons for not getting you your unit, this will reflect poorly on him as a Denon dealer. You have been waiting ever so long for your AVP, and a nice person like you deserves so much better treatment. It's only right that you get your deposit back.

I hope that there is still a way for you to get an AVP, we really like having you around bud.

Please let us know what happens. You have many friends here that care.



Seth

hi seth, I totally agree what you posted here, its pretty much what I pm'd franin on the aussie dtvforum. if anyone deserves an avp its franin and especially given the time he's been waiting for one to be stuffed around by the dealer at the last moment is jsut not on. franin I would be emailing denon as well. the units are out and about. you put a deposit on one a fair while back and should be getting one. regadless if they took a deposit on an avp that is what you should be getting or have your money back ! good luck with things.
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post #118 of 25092
3/18/08 at 11:18am
Yeah, come on Franin - don't deprive yourself because of someone else's lack of intelligence. You owe it to yourself and you are part of the family here. Don't give up yet mate!

Remember also that you will be getting a unit from the second batch. May be a blessing.
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post #119 of 25092
3/18/08 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

NCFOM is PCM, and DD, only

Sorry about that, it was "Mr Magoriums Wonder emporium" that was in DTS HD M.
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post #120 of 25092
3/18/08 at 1:55pm
Hey everybody,

I just got a call from my salesperson (whom I've worked with for 20 yrs and trust in these matters). He had sent off a message to his Denon rep on Friday when I contacted him about the VP board issue report.

Bottom line: The rep contacted Jeff Talmadge (DenonJeff), who as North American product manager would know about these things, and he knows of no problem or recall with the AVP-A1HDCI. They are, in fact, interested in where this info is coming from as they are concerned it's a competitor rumor or that sort of thing, and want to squash it.

I'm satisfied that these are people who know what they're talking about, so I'm assuming that report was either just a rumor run amok or the work of someone in the info chain with another agenda.
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