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Batman Begins Dated for Blu-ray, July 8th  

post #1 of 197
Thread Starter 
Warner Home Video has revealed that they will release blockbuster film 'Batman Begins' for Blu-ray on July 8th, day-and-date with the DVD re-release. No specs or extra features have been announced at this time, but we do know that the film will be offered either as a single disc release, or as part of a limited-edition gift set.

Both the single disc and gift set editions will include an exclusive comic book prologue to the upcoming sequel 'The Dark Knight', which is set to hit theaters July 18th. The box set will also include a Batman Begins motion art lenticular, script pages, exclusive photos, storyboards, five collectible Batman Begins postcards, and $7.50 in movie cash toward a Dark Knight ticket.

The HD DVD release of 'Batman Begins' was one of the formats top sellers, and has remained exclusive to that format until now. Along with 'The Matrix', this is one of the most highly anticipated Warner HD DVD titles to be brought to Blu-ray.

Source: Home Media Magazine



Sounds daaaaaaaaamn sweet.
post #2 of 197
Hope that Warner will be creating a new encode with the high frequency details for the Blu-ray release.
post #3 of 197
Great news, kick ass movie, deserves a release ASAP for BR - I recently sold my A2 to a buddy, his condition to buying the player was that I give him dibs on a few select titles I had (on the cheap), of course he demanded Batman Begins - hated selling that one, will be more than happy to dip again, especially if they up the ante on the encode.

Thanks for the update.
post #4 of 197
yes great news
post #5 of 197
And to think that we were complaining WB was delaying hd dvd releases 3 weeks.
post #6 of 197
Can't wait for this...I am triple dipping on this title . I own the DVD, HD-DVD and soon the BR. I'd probably have skipped it if I owned any other HD-DVD player other than the 360 addon, but since I don't and REALLY want lossless audio I will have to pick this one up.
post #7 of 197
Finally, great news! This will compliment "The Dark Knight" perfectly!
post #8 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Hope that Warner will be creating a new encode with the high frequency details for the Blu-ray release.

what the hell are you talking about? lets not get silly here...the hd dvd had spectacular reference quality pq and featured a reference quality true hd soundtrack. what exactly do you want them to recode?

from hd digest review:

Lastly, Warner has also done another fine job encoding 'Batman Begins.' Though the film is not as quick-cut as some recent blockbusters, it does have many scenes of fast action, which this transfer handles adroitly. No macroblocking or any type of posterization is present. And though there is some slight film grain present at times, there are no compression problems or resultant noise. Excellent, excellent job, folks. 'Batman Begins' looks fabulous.

Ensuring that 'Batman Begins' sounds as good as it looks, Warner has created a new Dolby TrueHD track for the film -- say hello to your new reference disc.
post #9 of 197
Any word on the box set with the Tim Burton and Schumacher (ugh) films?
post #10 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Hope that Warner will be creating a new encode with the high frequency details for the Blu-ray release.

As I said elsewhere, this is a point on which we are definitely in agreement.
post #11 of 197
Thanks buddy. Warner should also re-encode V for Vendetta and Matrix Reloaded / Revolutions if possible to get rid off macroblocking. Warner went too conservative with these titles and we should not feel guilty to demand a re-encode.
post #12 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Hope that Warner will be creating a new encode with the high frequency details for the Blu-ray release.

Can't wait for the comparison screens. The HD DVD version looks fantastic.
post #13 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Thanks buddy. Warner should also re-encode V for Vendetta and Matrix Reloaded / Revolutions if possible to get rid off macroblocking. Warner went too conservative with these titles and we should not feel guilty to demand a re-encode.

I didn't much care for V or the Matrix sequels based on the movie content, but I certainly will not be buying BB or Matrix I if they are not new encodes.
post #14 of 197
I know the HD-DVD encode was VC-1, what was the audio? True HD? or just DD+?
post #15 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Hope that Warner will be creating a new encode with the high frequency details for the Blu-ray release.

According to the lead encoder who worked on this disc, the softness was in the master.
post #16 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by talbain View Post

what the hell are you talking about? lets not get silly here...the hd dvd had spectacular reference quality pq and featured a reference quality true hd soundtrack. what exactly do you want them to recode?

from hd digest review:

Lastly, Warner has also done another fine job encoding 'Batman Begins.' Though the film is not as quick-cut as some recent blockbusters, it does have many scenes of fast action, which this transfer handles adroitly. No macroblocking or any type of posterization is present. And though there is some slight film grain present at times, there are no compression problems or resultant noise. Excellent, excellent job, folks. 'Batman Begins' looks fabulous.

Ensuring that 'Batman Begins' sounds as good as it looks, Warner has created a new Dolby TrueHD track for the film -- say hello to your new reference disc.

I don't care what the review says. When I watched the HD DVD, I found the picture disappointing - very soft and lacking in fine detail.

Below is airect crop of a 1080p frame vs that same cropped image, downscaled to 720p and upscaled to 1080p.




http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...0&postcount=13
post #17 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul nyc View Post

I know the HD-DVD encode was VC-1, what was the audio? True HD? or just DD+?

TrueHD

from the HDD review:
Quote:


Ensuring that 'Batman Begins' sounds as good as it looks, Warner has created a new Dolby TrueHD track for the film -- say hello to your new reference disc. As impressed as I've been with the past TrueHD tracks on such HD DVD releases as 'Training Day' and 'The Perfect Storm,' this one is simply the best sound mix I've yet heard on any home video format, period. The sound design and overall aural presentation of this film simply never steps wrong, with the excitement level never waning from the first frame of the film to the last.
post #18 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

According to the lead encoder who worked on this disc, the softness was in the master.

I have serious doubts. Just compare it to the PQ on The Prestige (same director, same DP, same Panavision, lower budget).
post #19 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

According to the lead encoder who worked on this disc, the softness was in the master.

Perhaps. And perhaps he was ordered to say that by someone like, maybe, Steve Nickerson?
post #20 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert View Post

I have serious doubts. Just compare it to the PQ on The Prestige (same director, same DP, same Panavision, lower budget).

You know the party line response to that one, G. How dare you compare the PQ on totally different movies?
post #21 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert View Post

I have serious doubts. Just compare it to the PQ on The Prestige (same director, same DP, same Panavision, lower budget).

I'm just relaying what he said. When I reviewed the movie, it was on a 720p projector and it didn't look too bad, when I popped it in when I bought my 1080p projector, the softness was very apparent.

I hope it gets a new transfer (or master) as well, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
post #22 of 197
Is this the same date as Gotham Knight?

when is the box set with all of the films being released. I might skip this one and get the whole enchilada, with the Burtons and /sigh Shumachers.

Does BB come in a book?

Hopefully Warner will add a bunch of EE so people won't complain about the softness. Fingers crossed. Pick your poison.
post #23 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

According to the lead encoder who worked on this disc, the softness was in the master.

Pure BS.

Christopher Nolan himself comments on the filming of Batman Begins in the Digital Content Producer,

http://digitalcontentproducer.com/dc...at_au_natural/

Quote:


In terms of photography, this is the third film I've worked on with [DP Wally Pfister, ASC], and he pretty much knew that I was looking for a stripped-down style, with little use for filters or other correctionals. For that reason, we shot anamorphic without any filters to soften things, and we worked to get simple, crisp, clear imagery. Therefore, I did not want any fancy CG and I definitely did not want to have anything to do with the DI process. I just wanted a sort of unadorned cinematography that has texture to it, so that when you watch it, you feel like you can understand what everything you are seeing is made of.

If I recally correctly, the Warner encoder that posted here stated that Batman Begins was encoded at a 12 mbps bitrate, which is quite low, even by HD-DVD standards. I'd say that fact, combined with Nolan's comment above and the downrezzing pic that Grubert provided makes for a strong case when arguing that the HD-DVD version of Batman Begins is a far cry from the best possible presentation in an HDM presentation.
post #24 of 197
If the Softness is in the master then the master needs to be remastered. Even the old HD master of Matrix had similar softness. So when Warner can make a new master for Matrix why not for BB ? This is a highly anticipated release for the entire Blu-ray community. People out there are expecting the PQ to fall somewhere in Tier-0 or in top Tier-1. The HD DVD version itself is ranked quite low in the HD DVD PQ tier thread after numerous complaints about softness. The current PQ of Batman Begins on HD DVD doesn't truly represent what I have seen on IMAX and doesn't even come close to the 20 Mbps broadcast copy in terms of sharpness and high frequency detail though the colors and black levels standout. I beg Warner brothers to handle BB, V and Matrix with utmost care.
post #25 of 197
There is not softness in the master. If there was softness in the master, then the 20 Mbps broadcast copy that you say beats the HD-DVD in sharpness and high frequency details would be soft as well.

This entire "softness in the master" nonsense is just that - nonsense created by Warner encoders that did not want to admit that the bit budget for HD-DVD was not high enough. In supporting HD-DVD exclusively with Batman Begins, they would have killed sales of the title and potentially killed off HD-DVD much earlier had they just came out in the open and said,

"Look, we had to lower the bitrate of Batman Begins to 12 mbps in order to accomodate TrueHD and Picture-In-Picture with HD-DVD's limited bit budget, and thus adversely affecting picture quality." But, this is exactly what had to be done. It would have been bad business to admit it at the time, though. Given what we know now from encoders that have opened up and discussed encoding 1080p content using advanced codecs, we know 12 mbps is about HALF of the average bitrate required for great compression. It's been said time and time again that 25 mbps is the sweet spot for encoding 1080p video, regardless of codec (obviously not including MPEG2). 12 mbps obviously is not 25 mbps.

Christopher Nolan himself specifically stated he did not use any softening filters in the filming of this movie, simply because he wanted a sharp, crystal clear, high quality image. That directly contradicts the HD-DVD presentation, and thus, it is correct to assume that the HD-DVD presentation does not accurately reflect the director's intent - or the theatrical representation.
post #26 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by tauheel05 View Post

Finally, great news! This will compliment "The Dark Knight" perfectly!

Thanks. I was getting worried that it wouldn't.
post #27 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderG View Post

There is not softness in the master. If there was softness in the master, then the 20 Mbps broadcast copy that you say beats the HD-DVD in sharpness and high frequency details would be soft as well.

This entire "softness in the master" nonsense is just that - nonsense created by Warner encoders that did not want to admit that the bit budget for HD-DVD was not high enough. In supporting HD-DVD exclusively with Batman Begins, they would have killed sales of the title and potentially killed off HD-DVD much earlier had they just came out in the open and said,

"Look, we had to lower the bitrate of Batman Begins to 12 mbps in order to accomodate TrueHD and Picture-In-Picture with HD-DVD's limited bit budget, and thus adversely affecting picture quality." But, this is exactly what had to be done. It would have been bad business to admit it at the time, though. Given what we know now from encoders that have opened up and discussed encoding 1080p content using advanced codecs, we know 12 mbps is about HALF of the average bitrate required for great compression. It's been said time and time again that 25 mbps is the sweet spot for encoding 1080p video, regardless of codec (obviously not including MPEG2). 12 mbps obviously is not 25 mbps.

Christopher Nolan himself specifically stated he did not use any softening filters in the filming of this movie, simply because he wanted a sharp, crystal clear, high quality image. That directly contradicts the HD-DVD presentation, and thus, it is correct to assume that the HD-DVD presentation does not accurately reflect the director's intent - or the theatrical representation.

So good to read something written by someone else that so completely corresponds to my own views, except the part about a bitrate of 25 being enough for outstanding PQ.
post #28 of 197
Finally!!!

Hopefully V isn't far behind.
post #29 of 197
OK lets go again

Batman begins was shot Anamorfic 35mm wich is a bit softer and bit less grainy then Super35mm movies.

Also how you light the movie has very much impact on how sharp and detailed a movie looks.

Also wants to add

1. The Prestige PQ is very similar to Batman begins. So no the Prestige doesnt prove that there is anything wrong with the encode of Batman. And yes The Prestige is hardly the sharpest and most detailed HDM out there.

2. 12mbit is hardly the peak bitrate of Batman begins (dont mix up Avarage bitrate with Peak bitrate).

3. If Nolan wanted the sharpest look out there he wouldnt have choosen Anamorfic 35mm. But if he wanted a clean image it would make perfect sense.

No matter how much you wish, an Anamorfic movie will not look like a Super35mm movie.
post #30 of 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert View Post

I have serious doubts. Just compare it to the PQ on The Prestige (same director, same DP, same Panavision, lower budget).

I read all the rave reviews from HD DVD fans, picked it up and wasn't really impressed. It's not bad looking by any means but certainly not on par with The Prestige which is excellent in PQ.
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