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Official Samsung LNxxA650 Owner's Thread - Page 404

post #12091 of 23473
6/18/08 at 1:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stephennothanks View Post

Hello all. I just upgraded from a 26 inch westinghouse LCD to a new 52 inch samsung 650 LCD. On my old westinghouse LCD, the aspect ratio would automatically switch from 4:3 with black bars on the sides when viewing standard defn TV (I prefer this over any fill or stretch to avoid distorting the image on 4:3 images) to 16:9 when viewing a high defn 16:9 feed from a high defn channel.

With the new samsung, I seem to be stuck with one or the other. I can either set the TV to 4:3 which works well for SD/4:3 stations but shrinks the 16:9 channels, or choose 16:9 which looks good on high defn channels, but causes stretch and distortion on the 4:3 channels. It sure seems like this new samsung should be able to autosense/autoswitch like my westinghouse does. Am I missing a setting or option? Please tell me there is a way to fix this.

In case it matters, I'm using ATT U-verse with the Motorrola VIP 1200 set top box/DVR and have it connected to an onkyo receiver via HDMI, then to TV from the receive again with HDMI. The motorrola forces you to pick one output resolution, so I've chosen 1080i. But I don't think the set top box is the problem because I can connect it to my westinghouse and the westinghouse TV autosenses/switches aspect ratios with the same settings.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Stephen

I do know that with my cable box, a Scientific Atlanta Explorer 8240HDC DVR, that with it set to output at 1080i fixed resolution with the TV Type set to Widescreen.. the TV sees the input (connected via component cables) as 1920x1080i@60Hz and the SD channels are in their proper 4:3 aspect with left/right bars and HD channels fill the screen as they should when HD content is on. In my case, the cable box is actually adding the black bars to the signal because the input is always coming into the TV at 1920x1080i, regardless of the channel. Now, if I set the video type to passthru, then the SD channels don't display a particular resolution and fill the entire screen with no black bars.

So, it might be a setting on your cable box. Make sure the TV Type is Widescreen and not 4:3 something.
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post #12092 of 23473
6/18/08 at 3:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by daveswantek View Post

I would only do this as a last resort, you may be better off doing a return. It depends on the vendors return policy.

If is is real bad return it

Dave

The whole thing with that is I really don't want to get into a loop of returning sets to to the retailer. Im sure that they wouldn't chage me a restocking fee the first time if I claim its defective, but a second and third time I'm sure they're going to have some words with me and I'll have to argue with someone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

What problem sets?

Some people are saying they have "Zero Problems" wondering if people who have bad flashlighting all have sets built around the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadFox View Post

No do NOT do this. It actually makes it worse. I have minor flashlight and clouding that you barely can see. I cranked backlight for about an hour and now flashlights and clouds bother me more than ever. It's way more visible now. I'm thinking of exchaging it at best buy now but I've heard it's out of stock. I called them and they said that they took it out of their system.

Just to make sure I'm reading it right. You cranked the backlight up for an hour and then put it back to where it was before and noticed it got worse? Hmm. If Best Buy really is out of stock I'd just return it and wait till the new Touch of Color is released.
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post #12093 of 23473
6/18/08 at 6:26am
today i am going to return my second defective set to best buy, if this one turns out to be faulty i am returning the set and saving my money, this is totally unacceptable, samsung has some major quality control issues.
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post #12094 of 23473
6/18/08 at 6:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

What level (1-10) do you guys keep your backlight on? I keep mine at 4 or 5.

I keep mine on 3 for all sources. With the first two 650s I had, I would keep it on 5. The one I have now is noticeably brighter on average compared to the first two sets for some strange reason.
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post #12095 of 23473
6/18/08 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalav View Post

One last observation...I'm willing to admit it could be an optical illusion, but I'm almost convinced that some of the black areas within the 4:3 content are actually blacker than the black verticals bars to the left and right. Can this be? Wouldn't the bars be the blackest elements on the screen?

I have noticed the same thing. When all of the hysteria of the purple haze was swirling around, I checked my set and I only noticed a slight purple tint in the side bar areas when viewed at extreme angles. All of the black areas in the center of the screen still appeared black. When there was full screen content, I didn't notice any purple tint at all. I figured if only the side bars were washed out or had a purple tint, I could live with that. I have since quit looking for the purple tint and just enjoy my tv now.
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post #12096 of 23473
6/18/08 at 7:07am
have had the set almost a week now and still playing around.

one thing i can tell you for sure is that no matter what i try, this set is HORRIFIC off axis. anything other than head on and it starts to lose contrast and washes out. i'm really surprised frankly.

the other observation is that i can't stand the AMP. i swear it gives me a headache. i'm not noticing any motion blur with it off so i'm just keeping it off. as an example, if anyone has invincible with whalberg, ply the scene where they are playing football in the lot at the beginning. made my head spin with it on high.

on a VERY positive note, i am continually impressed with how this set handles SD via my cable box. it is so damn good it's not funny.

anyone else having the off axis issues? i'm not really having any other deal breaker issues with this set but man is the off axis terrible.
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post #12097 of 23473
6/18/08 at 7:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Identity Fraud View Post

The whole thing with that is I really don't want to get into a loop of returning sets to to the retailer. Im sure that they wouldn't chage me a restocking fee the first time if I claim its defective, but a second and third time I'm sure they're going to have some words with me and I'll have to argue with someone.



Some people are saying they have "Zero Problems" wondering if people who have bad flashlighting all have sets built around the same time.



Just to make sure I'm reading it right. You cranked the backlight up for an hour and then put it back to where it was before and noticed it got worse? Hmm. If Best Buy really is out of stock I'd just return it and wait till the new Touch of Color is released.

Yes I cranked it and put it back down after an hour. Not sure if I want to return because I probably won't get as good a deal next time around. And it might be a while until the other color comes out so who knows how long I'll be without a tv. Ugh my 530 and 580 didn't have any of these problems and they were the lower end models. I wonder if samsng will fix these issues in the new colors...
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post #12098 of 23473
6/18/08 at 7:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

What level (1-10) do you guys keep your backlight on? I keep mine at 4 or 5.

I keep mine around 4, or 5 for night/standard and around 6, or 7 for day/dynamic. I have my energy saver set for auto.

FWIW, I find that although a high contrast ratio (white whites and black blacks) is very dynamic in initial appearance, its hard on the eyes. I first noticed this when we switched from CRTs to LCD's for our CAD workstations here at work. The pictures were crisp and beautiful, but I had eye strain by the end of the day. I find that if I mute the contrast and bring up the brightness a bit so there is less "POP" its easier to watch in a darkened room for extended lengths of time. It's also more realistic to have less contrast IMHO, if I look out my window here at work, I don't see any natural backs in my surroundings. Even shadows under cars or trees are dark grey, not black.
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post #12099 of 23473
6/18/08 at 8:19am
3..

any brighter and the 52" inch is blinding in semi dark viewing environment from 9 ft away
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post #12100 of 23473
6/18/08 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

What level (1-10) do you guys keep your backlight on? I keep mine at 4 or 5.

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Scott View Post

depends on what I'm watching. For TV or movies I set it to 5, for video games 6 or 7. Sometimes when I'm watching sports I'll bump it to a 6 or 7.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmo0ve View Post

I too use either 4 or 5. Currently I have it at 4. Like David Scott, I can see using a higher backlight for gaming. Just enough light where I don't have to squint my eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by n1ghtpr0w1er View Post

I keep mine on 3 for all sources. With the first two 650s I had, I would keep it on 5. The one I have now is noticeably brighter on average compared to the first two sets for some strange reason.

Doesn't energy savings also impact the backlight?

If so, these numbers don't mean much unless you also state the energy savings setting, as guitar did.
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post #12101 of 23473
6/18/08 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalav View Post

Received my 46A650 from Amazon. There is some flashlighting, but hoping it will abate some. Either way I doubt I'd notice it except when screen has no image. There appear to be no bad pixels. But I'm dismayed at the off-axis viewing, which seems worse than models I saw in stores. The black bars on the side of 4:3 content go gray, and the overall picture appears very washed out. Recent posts seem to suggest that the 46s could be different in this area than the 52s, but is this possible? I would think that the technology of the two panels is identical. Could it also be as someone suggested, a "bad batch" of 46s? But how would that manifest itself--a bad coating?

I ran in to a store today to take another look and saw a 750. Off axis there was none of the washed out blacks (grays) of my 650. The blacks looked very rich from all angles. I did see a 40A650 that did wash out a bit. Of course, the lighting conditions and picture settings in the store don't match mine at home.

I realize LCDs are inherently deficient off-axis, but are there any 650 owners that are not seeing a washed out picture from the side? Likewise to 750 owners.

I noticed this as well. Can other 650 and 750 owners report whether or not the color is washed out off-axis? The 46A650 in the showroom I looked at didn't seem to wash out nearly as badly as mine does off-axis. Here is what mine looks like:

Off axis:


Straight-on:


These were taken in a very dark room, which probably makes the washing-out more pronounced but it still seems to be worse than the TV I saw in the dim showroom.
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post #12102 of 23473
6/18/08 at 8:33am
yes--see my post above. i think the wash-out off axis is the worst part of this tv imo.

are there any settings to help with this? anyone???
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post #12103 of 23473
6/18/08 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

HDMI Black Level setting options are Low and Normal. Which one you need to set it to depends on the connected device. For some devices, the setting will be grayed out. If you have this setting set appropriately for each device, then you should not see a difference in black levels.

I have an XA2, a bd30, a DishHD VIP622, a ThinkPad T60, and the occassional ps3 when my friend brings it over. I have no difference in black levels between all 5 devices.

Your right, it's at default low right now.

Mosh~~
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post #12104 of 23473
6/18/08 at 10:00am
What is it called when seeing something like the below situation?

Example:
When the picture is supposed to smoothly change colors from left to right and your not supposed to see lines between the colors changing? It should be a smooth color change between red to orange to yellow for an example.

But, I would see lines between the red, orange and yellow colors. Something like a Rainbow, where you can see distinct breaks between the transition of the colors.

And,
What can I do to get rid of these lines for a very smooth transition?
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post #12105 of 23473
6/18/08 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulKC View Post

I noticed this as well. Can other 650 and 750 owners report whether or not the color is washed out off-axis? The 46A650 in the showroom I looked at didn't seem to wash out nearly as badly as mine does off-axis. Here is what mine looks like:

Off axis:


Straight-on:


These were taken in a very dark room, which probably makes the washing-out more pronounced but it still seems to be worse than the TV I saw in the dim showroom.

On my 46a650 too, off-axis looks all washed out too. Infact similar to the images that you attached. I am running 1003.M firmware. What about you guys, what firmware do you have? Would switching to 2001.3 help?
I am still inside 30-day return period from Amazon. Would it be worth replacing it?
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post #12106 of 23473
6/18/08 at 10:27am
I just bought the LN40A650 and I'm having an issue connecting it to my htpc. The board is a Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H plugged in via it's own HDMI port to the 2nd HDMI port on the 650. When I change the source on the tv to something else and then go back to the htpc the picture is missing. Refresh does nothing...the only way to get the picture back is to reboot my pc. Anyone having this issue, or have any ideas on how to fix it?
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post #12107 of 23473
6/18/08 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by inbox4sumit View Post

On my 46a650 too, off-axis looks all washed out too. Infact similar to the images that you attached. I am running 1003.M firmware. What about you guys, what firmware do you have? Would switching to 2001.3 help?
I am still inside 30-day return period from Amazon. Would it be worth replacing it?

No. Firmware will not help, neither will replacing it. LCDs have inherently an imperfect off-axis image. Seriously, how often are you watching your tv at such an extreme angle?
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post #12108 of 23473
6/18/08 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kremlin View Post

No. Firmware will not help, neither will replacing it. LCDs have inherently an imperfect off-axis image. Seriously, how often are you watching your tv at such an extreme angle?

I understand that LCDs have this issue. But some are better than the others. I upgraded from a 42" 720P Vizio and the off-axis viewing was way better than my Samsung. Although I will not watch off-axis too often, but its kind of annoying to see the colors on the picture change dramatically, even if you are off by 45 degrees from the center.
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post #12109 of 23473
6/18/08 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkim0321 View Post

What is it called when seeing something like the below situation?

Example:
When the picture is supposed to smoothly change colors from left to right and your not supposed to see lines between the colors changing? It should be a smooth color change between red to orange to yellow for an example.

But, I would see lines between the red, orange and yellow colors. Something like a Rainbow, where you can see distinct breaks between the transition of the colors.

And,
What can I do to get rid of these lines for a very smooth transition?

Sounds like you are describing color banding.

Is it like one of these? If so, describe your source, how its connected, etc.
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post #12110 of 23473
6/18/08 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkim0321 View Post

What is it called when seeing something like the below situation?

Example:
When the picture is supposed to smoothly change colors from left to right and your not supposed to see lines between the colors changing? It should be a smooth color change between red to orange to yellow for an example.

But, I would see lines between the red, orange and yellow colors. Something like a Rainbow, where you can see distinct breaks between the transition of the colors.

And,
What can I do to get rid of these lines for a very smooth transition?

Thats called color banding and is a source issue, you can also see it in the PS3 menu and in movies like Ice Age, it's not the TV.

With high quality TVs your more likely to see imperfections in the source, so there is both good and bad with having a high quality TV. Also the larger the TV the more obvious imperfections are.

Mosh~~
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post #12111 of 23473
6/18/08 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by inbox4sumit View Post

I understand that LCDs have this issue. But some are better than the others. I upgraded from a 42" 720P Vizio and the off-axis viewing was way better than my Samsung. Although I will not watch off-axis too often, but its kind of annoying to see the colors on the picture change dramatically, even if you are off by 45 degrees from the center.

You know why lesser displays have less of a drop off when going off center? Because they have extremely low contrast ratios to begin with, so how can you wash out an already washed out picture?

Mosh~~
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post #12112 of 23473
6/18/08 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalav View Post

One last observation...I'm willing to admit it could be an optical illusion, but I'm almost convinced that some of the black areas within the 4:3 content are actually blacker than the black verticals bars to the left and right. Can this be? Wouldn't the bars be the blackest elements on the screen?

Just wanted to mention that mine does the same thing but the reason is that when the cable box is outputting 4:3 content (the incoming source is still 1920x1080i), the cable box is creating these black bars and they are not totally black.. in fact it has three settings for them: light, medium, dark. Looking closely, the pixels within the black bar areas are all changing brightness slightly and not remaining constant... while black content within the middle is actually black. HD content of course shows black everywhere that it should be.

After realizing this, made me feel better and I've pretty much quit looking for issues now.
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post #12113 of 23473
6/18/08 at 11:04am
just an fyi--

i had a question about warranty from samsung so i used their tech support line. while i was connected i thought i would ask about AMP and 120hz being two separate features.

here is the contents of our "chat":

Please wait for a Samsung Agent to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Strauss J'

Strauss J: Hello, I am a Samsung Technical Support representative. How may I assist you today?

me: hello--can i purchase an extended warranty directly through samsung on an lcd i bought at best buy?

Strauss J: Yes.

Strauss J: Samsung offers fixed warranty on all TVs for 1 year. However, you could extend its warranty if you purchase it within the first 11 months. You could extend the warranty for 1 year or 3 year. For extending the warranty, I request you to give a call our Warranty Division at 1-866-237-5278.

me: ok. another question---

Strauss J: Please go ahead.

me: i i have a 650 series 40 inch lcd and i turn AMP off, am i basically running now at a 60hz panel? as in the same as a 550 series? or is AMP and the 120hz of the panel two separate things?

Strauss J: These are 2 separate things.

me: ok so if i have amp off, i should still have less motion blur on my 650 series than one would on a 550 series since the panel is still running at 120hz even though the AMP feature is turned off correct?

Strauss J: Yes, you are correct.

me: ok thank you.

so for me that about solves it. i can't stand amp but was thinking i wasted more $$$ buying a 650 since by turning it off i am essentially negating the benefits of 120hz technology. i guess i was WRONG.

looks like the 650 might just be staying.
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post #12114 of 23473
6/18/08 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by govner View Post


me: i i have a 650 series 40 inch lcd and i turn AMP off, am i basically running now at a 60hz panel? as in the same as a 550 series? or is AMP and the 120hz of the panel two separate things?

Strauss J: These are 2 separate things.

me: ok so if i have amp off, i should still have less motion blur on my 650 series than one would on a 550 series since the panel is still running at 120hz even though the AMP feature is turned off correct?

Strauss J: Yes, you are correct.

me: ok thank you.

so for me that about solves it. i can't stand amp but was thinking i wasted more $$$ buying a 650 since by turning it off i am essentially negating the benefits of 120hz technology. i guess i was WRONG.

looks like the 650 might just be staying.

He is wrong. 120hz without AMP does not address motion blur.

It does, however, allow the set to display film-based content at an even cadence (eliminating telecine judder). Whether your eye can notice this is another question, though.
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post #12115 of 23473
6/18/08 at 11:10am
You must learn to embrace the AMP, young one.
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post #12116 of 23473
6/18/08 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by govner View Post

so for me that about solves it. i can't stand amp but was thinking i wasted more $$$ buying a 650 since by turning it off i am essentially negating the benefits of 120hz technology. i guess i was WRONG

I presume the customer support dude was referring to 5:5 pulldown?

Anyway, the CNet reviewers indicated that they didn't see any benefits from 5:5, even tho Samsung engineers claimed it was occurring. Otoh, some folks in this thread have sworn that 5:5 makes a noticeable difference (i.e., without AMP enabled). It sounds like one of those things where you just have to test it for yourself and see whether the difference, if any, is worth it to you.

I'm still confused about 5:5 pulldown, tho, and hope that someone here can clarify. Will this be relevant only for 24p source material like that setting on the PS3 or other Blu-Ray players with 24p functionality, or will 5:5 pulldown actually help with standard-definition DVDs as well?
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post #12117 of 23473
6/18/08 at 11:12am
I can't watch anything with AMP off, anymore.
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post #12118 of 23473
6/18/08 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ready2Mosh View Post

You know why lesser displays have less of a drop off when going off center? Because they have extremely low contrast ratios to begin with, so how can you wash out an already washed out picture?

Mosh~~

I'm glad you guys mentioned this about the off axis, I was beginning to think it was just my tv. Its nice that at least you can swivel the tv on its stand to correct where your sitting though.
Speaking of the color banding in the menu of the PS3 someone mentioned. I honestly dont see that at all on mine, looks absolutely stunning to me. I was really amazed with all the half tones in the menu how clean it looks.
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post #12119 of 23473
6/18/08 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by caa100 View Post

He is wrong. 120hz without AMP does not address motion blur.

so what you are saying is that if im going to turn off amp (i've tried and i just can't stand it--nothign looks natural to me) then i should just get the 550 and save $400?
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post #12120 of 23473
6/18/08 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brddog7683 View Post

I'm glad you guys mentioned this about the off axis, I was beginning to think it was just my tv. Its nice that at least you can swivel the tv on its stand to correct where your sitting though.
Speaking of the color banding in the menu of the PS3 someone mentioned. I honestly dont see that at all on mine, looks absolutely stunning to me. I was really amazed with all the half tones in the menu how clean it looks.

I think some people are using really cheap cables or have their display too bright and makes them more obvious. I don't have a PS3 yet so I can't look myself. If I want to check for banding I just load a color gradient and a black and white gradient and view them off of my thumb drive.

Mosh~~
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