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hdmi 1.3 and HD audio bitstream + deep color

post #1 of 12
3/15/08 at 6:46pm
Thread Starter 
Hmm been reading through a few threads/articles about deep color and bitstream of audio on hdmi 1.3

1: Blue ray players will never have deep color on their discs on movies etc ?
Did look like HD dvd had support for deep color or am I mistaken ?

2: What Blue ray/HD DVD players do support bitstream of HD audio to receiver ?

3: Will pc hardware (+software) ever support bitstream or deep color ?
Eventual when will these be released ?

Any point to wait for hardware that do support deep color and bitstream ?
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post #2 of 12
3/15/08 at 6:51pm
1. Neither HD-DVD or BluRay support deep colour.

2. Check the PowerDVD threads for which configurations support it.

3. Probably not in my lifetime for deepcolour.

4. Deep colour no, HD audio depends on what trade-offs you want.
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post #3 of 12
3/15/08 at 6:53pm
What's with the love for deep color? Not thing supports this.
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post #4 of 12
3/15/08 at 6:54pm
Marketing hype.
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post #5 of 12
3/15/08 at 8:06pm
Frankly "Deep Color" (or 10-bit color if you're not into markitecture), should have been part of HD DVD/Blu-ray from the beginning, xvYCC (which would get us closer to film/DCinema gamut) would have been nice to have included as well.

But neither were included in either format and can't be added at this point. As for audio, end result, 1.3 gets you nothing that you can't have with 1.2 or even 1.1.

Bitstreaming is (as is HDMI 1.3 mostly), IMO something invented by the industry to sell more kit. Given that both next gen formats opted to forgo 10-bit color, to stick with standard (SMPTE-C/BT.709) color gamut, and that HDMI 1.2 supported multichannel LPCM, there was no technical need for HDMI 1.3, it doesn't provide the capability for anything that can't be done over HDMI 1.2.

The thing that might be worth waiting for depending on your equipment is multichannel LPCM over HDMI support. Only the G35 does this today, but the GeForce 8200 looks like it will have it as well.
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post #6 of 12
3/15/08 at 8:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Frankly "Deep Color" (or 10-bit color if you're not into markitecture), should have been part of HD DVD/Blu-ray from the beginning, xvYCC (which would get us closer to film/DCinema gamut) would have been nice to have included as well.

But neither were included in either format and can't be added at this point. As for audio, end result, 1.3 gets you nothing that you can't have with 1.2 or even 1.1.

Bitstreaming is (as is HDMI 1.3 mostly), IMO something invented by the industry to sell more kit. Given that both next gen formats opted to forgo 10-bit color, to stick with standard (SMPTE-C/BT.709) color gamut, and that HDMI 1.2 supported multichannel LPCM, there was no technical need for HDMI 1.3, it doesn't provide the capability for anything that can't be done over HDMI 1.2.

The thing that might be worth waiting for depending on your equipment is multichannel LPCM over HDMI support. Only the G35 does this today, but the GeForce 8200 looks like it will have it as well.

G45 looks interesting tho...
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post #7 of 12
3/15/08 at 9:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Frankly "Deep Color" (or 10-bit color if you're not into markitecture), should have been part of HD DVD/Blu-ray from the beginning, xvYCC (which would get us closer to film/DCinema gamut) would have been nice to have included as well.

But neither were included in either format and can't be added at this point. As for audio, end result, 1.3 gets you nothing that you can't have with 1.2 or even 1.1.

Bitstreaming is (as is HDMI 1.3 mostly), IMO something invented by the industry to sell more kit. Given that both next gen formats opted to forgo 10-bit color, to stick with standard (SMPTE-C/BT.709) color gamut, and that HDMI 1.2 supported multichannel LPCM, there was no technical need for HDMI 1.3, it doesn't provide the capability for anything that can't be done over HDMI 1.2.

The thing that might be worth waiting for depending on your equipment is multichannel LPCM over HDMI support. Only the G35 does this today, but the GeForce 8200 looks like it will have it as well.

The sole advantage of transmitting a Bitstream, besides spending more money on equipment, is knowing that the receiver is getting an 'untouched' audio signal. Yes, there is no difference between multichannel LPCM and Bitstream, except when PowerDVD lowers the audio quality of the LPCM. If it is going out as a Bitstream the 24/196 will be preserved. And Bitstream transmission is the only practical reason for 1.3.

Also, I thought computers were going to be the only current sources (besides special handycams) that can transmit 10 bit color. I am pretty sure that computers can do that now. Current HDTV color is 8 bit per channel, which translates at 24bit on the computer, or 16 million colors to your eyes. Deep Color is 10 bit, so that would be 30 bits on the computer, and about a billion colors to your eyes. I am running at 32 bit color right now on this PC.
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post #8 of 12
3/15/08 at 10:18pm
Quote:


I am running at 32 bit color right now on this PC.

no, you're not you're running 24 bit color with an 8 bit alpha channel...

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post #9 of 12
3/16/08 at 8:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnabney View Post

The sole advantage of transmitting a Bitstream, besides spending more money on equipment, is knowing that the receiver is getting an 'untouched' audio signal. Yes, there is no difference between multichannel LPCM and Bitstream, except when PowerDVD lowers the audio quality of the LPCM.

The only reason PowerDVD "lowers" the audio quality is because there isn't currently a secure audio path on the PC. HDMI (1.1 or 1.2) would be a secure audio path, so it would no longer need to limit the audio output.

Quote:


If it is going out as a Bitstream the 24/196 will be preserved.

I've said this before, but how many titles are really affected by the "lowering" of audio quality. 99.99% of movies have a soundtrack that's 20bit/48kHz or lower.

Quote:


And Bitstream transmission is the only practical reason for 1.3.

I don't even see that as a practical reason.
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post #10 of 12
3/16/08 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by almostinsane View Post

What's with the love for deep color? Not thing supports this.

HD camcorders can support Deep Color (Panasonic and JVC have announced models although they not be released yet), these record into the AVC-HD format. You can burn a disc with the AVC-HD files and these are playable on some Blu-Ray players. It was still a mistake not to offer Deep Color as part of the Blu-Ray spec even is it was just optional
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post #11 of 12
3/16/08 at 1:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by salacious View Post

HD camcorders can support Deep Color (Panasonic and JVC have announced models although they not be released yet), these record into the AVC-HD format. You can burn a disc with the AVC-HD files and these are playable on some Blu-Ray players. It was still a mistake not to offer Deep Color as part of the Blu-Ray spec even is it was just optional

Sony had to speed up shipment of Blue ray players when HD DVD entered market and thus Blue Ray wasn't finished development at that time... might be reason why they skipped deep color support
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post #12 of 12
3/16/08 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stenvik View Post

Sony had to speed up shipment of Blue ray players when HD DVD entered market and thus Blue Ray wasn't finished development at that time... might be reason why they skipped deep color support

The AVC codec has been ratified for 5 years and this includes 10bit and 14bit per channel profiles (Blu-Ray wasn't finalised until the year after). Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD decided to go with High Profile which is limited to 8bit. VC1 and MPEG2 are also limited to 8 bit. It is probably them trying to save costs on the hardware and getting us to buy Blu-Rays replacement in a few years
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