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**WARNING** DTS Masters bitstreamed to Yamaha, Onkyo or Integra can damage speakers!!

post #1 of 2230
3/17/08 at 10:54am
Thread Starter 
***WARNING***13APR08
Anyone using a Yamaha or Onkyo/Integra receiver or pre/pro should use extreme caution when bitstreaming DTS MA.

Users are reporting a loud "POP" that is described as a loud firework or gunshot when using one of the above listed receivers AND bitstreaming DTS MA. This can damage your equipment!!!
The theory is certain receivers have a faulty DTS decoder chip and when coupled with certain DTS MA tracks, will cause this issue.

Ronny Katz, the Sr. Manager of Professional Audio at DTS, has already responded to this thread (see post #599) and has stated the issue is not in the DTS track or stream, and to seek assistance from your specific AVR manufacturer. Mr. Katz will not comment any further on the issue.

It is unknown at this time if all or just some models are affected.
Certain members have been in contact with Yamaha and Onkyo, though nothing official yet, it does look promising.
It is unknown at this time if the receivers can be fixed via a firmware or may need a more involved matter like shipping your unit in for a hardware change.

"kinglerxt" has received a reply from Onkyo including a firmware fix for his particular model (see post #1788). Contact your Manufacturer or visit your official owners thread for more details.




In the mean time, I highly recommend anyone using any of these receivers to NOT listen to any bitstreamed DTS MA material.

Here's a list of reported titles causing this issue:
**note** There are certainly other titles that have not been discovered yet.
-1408 (BD import)
-Golden Compass (review copy)
-The Fly (BD) time-13:00
-Chronos (BD) time-38:52
-Fantastic Four (BD) time-4:22
-Hannibal Rising (HD DVD)
-Close Encounters of the Third Kind (BD)
-Eagles Fairwell Concert (HD DVD) time-23:40
-Master and Commander (BD import) time-17:24
-Flight of the Phoenix (BD) time-51:00
-Flyboys (BD)

Be aware that just because you played any of these titles, does not mean that you don't have a problem as it appears not all titles affect every receiver.
"The Fly" seems to be the definitive test that no one with stated equipment can pass.
**see link below for a video clip of the "POP"**
Test at your own risk!!!



A big thanks to all forum members that discovered, reported, tested, theorized and most likely solved this issue!!!



LINKS:
First reported links:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&highlight=fly
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&highlight=fly
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&highlight=fly
Pop recorded by Midwest User1:
http://members.cox.net/jsmiddleton4/...d/Midwests.AVI


*all above info is strictly speculation until an official announcement is made*





Original post left for clarity...
Quote:


I've run across several posts now saying they have had issues with dts masters when bitstreamed to their receivers. Apparently it causes an extremely loud popping sound that can damage your speakers. (reminds me of when you would send bitstream dts to an incompatible receiver)

-The Fly
-Fantastic Four
-The Golden Compass
-Chronos

It is unknown if this is a disc, player or receiver problem but it only happens when Masters is bitstreamed to your receiver.

Please test at your own risk!!!
Even low volumes can damage your system!!!

If you have watched any of these movies AND are bitstreaming DTS masters to a 1.3 receiver please post your results and what player and receiver you are using.
Also, if you run across any other titles please post.
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post #2 of 2230
3/17/08 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

I've run across several posts now saying they have had issues with dts masters when bitstreamed to their receivers. Apparently it causes an extremely loud popping sound that can damage your speakers. (reminds me of when you would send bitstream dts to an incompatible receiver)

-The Fly
-Fantastic Four
-The Golden Compass

It is unknown if this is a disc, player or receiver problem but it only happens when Masters is bitstreamed to your receiver.

Please test at your own risk!!!
Even low volumes can damage your system!!!

If you have watched any of these movies AND are bitstreaming DTS masters to a 1.3 receiver please post your results and what player and receiver you are using.
Also, if you run across any other titles please post.

Have you read any post(s) that result in speakers damages?
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post #3 of 2230
3/17/08 at 11:03am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian-HD View Post

Have you read any post(s) that result in speakers damages?

Not yet...
Are you suggesting this isn't important?
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post #4 of 2230
3/17/08 at 11:13am
There is a post about The Fly. That BD was sent in for testing. I'm not sure what the status is. The post was from a month ago or so.

Edit: Here's the thread. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=982384&page=2
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post #5 of 2230
3/17/08 at 11:14am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertc88 View Post

There is a post about The Fly. That BD was sent in for testing. I'm not sure what the status is. The post was from a month ago or so.

Got that! Thanks!
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post #6 of 2230
3/17/08 at 11:18am
What is DTS masters?
I have heard of DTS-MA (master audio), is this what you are talking about?
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post #7 of 2230
3/17/08 at 11:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Moschella View Post

What is DTS masters?
I have heard of DTS-MA (master audio), is this what you are talking about?

yes
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post #8 of 2230
3/17/08 at 11:25am
wasnt there a problem with the Japan Blu Ray release of Master & Commander- i read that the english audio tract caused a loud pop in the speakers
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post #9 of 2230
3/17/08 at 12:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmiddleton4 View Post

I have not heard back from Fox regarding The Fly that I sent in. Other than a rather terse email telling me to be patient and wait.

The noise is clearly loud enough to potentially cause speaker damage if the volume were turned up to normal listening levels.

I have the fly coming soon... Is it safe to test if its turned down enough?
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post #10 of 2230
3/17/08 at 12:40pm
Im the one that found the Chronos issue. I had just received the disc as was so excited to check it out on BR
Really scared me and made me worry I blew my speakers

My setup is:
Panasonic DMPBD30K Bluray player
Onkyo TXSR705 receiver
5.1 speaker setup
Edit - Cable - Monoprice HDMI v1.3a 6 ft purple color (28 AWG) Item # 4025
I will re-try it on the non DTSHD setting to see if it repeats

Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

I've run across several posts now saying they have had issues with dts masters when bitstreamed to their receivers. Apparently it causes an extremely loud popping sound that can damage your speakers. (reminds me of when you would send bitstream dts to an incompatible receiver)
-Chronos

Chronos (near the end of the movie arouind 38:50 to 38:55 (38:52 exactly I think) where the camera is looking up at the cathedral ceiling with the lights shining thru)-kinglerxt
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post #11 of 2230
3/17/08 at 12:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinglerxt View Post

Im the one that found the Chronos issue. I had just received the disc as was so excited to check it out on BR
Really scared me and made me worry I blew my speakers

My setup is:
Panasonic DMPBD30K Bluray player
Onkyo TXSR705 receiver
5.1 speaker setup

I will re-try it on the non DTSHD setting to see if it repeats

Thanks!
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post #12 of 2230
3/17/08 at 1:02pm
IMHO this is a HDMI cable issue, just a good guess, no proof, but this is the exact thing that would happen with high datarates dropping out because of a cheaper HDMI cable, those that are having this problem should order a silver blue jeans 24awg HDMI cable

I have tested various HDMI cables sending high bitrate audio etc., the cheaper ones dropped out randomly once every movie or two, causing pops and cracks, the higher end ones didn't, I haven't had such a problem in months and months since doing the testing which was a day or two after high bitrate audio capability hit

try it out

on a additonal note, the Samsung 1400 does this on it's own, dropping out for a split second and causing the cracks and pops

-Gary
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post #13 of 2230
3/17/08 at 1:04pm
Thread Starter 
I've searched and and came up with a list of involved equipment....
Quote:


Panasonic BD30-Onkyo 705
Panasonic BD30-Yamaha 1800
Panasonic BD30-Onkyo 805
Panasonic BD30-Onkyo 605
Panasonic BD30-Onkyo Pro PR885

Anybody else see a common denominator? It looks like it could be the BD30. Anyone else experience this and was not using a BD30?
It should also be noted that not all BD30 users have experienced this problem.
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post #14 of 2230
3/17/08 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kinglerxt View Post

Im the one that found the Chronos issue. I had just received the disc as was so excited to check it out on BR
Really scared me and made me worry I blew my speakers

My setup is:
Panasonic DMPBD30K Bluray player
Onkyo TXSR705 receiver
5.1 speaker setup

I will re-try it on the non DTSHD setting to see if it repeats

just had to say hi, since we both have rush-related screennames.

and it's "lerxst!"
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post #15 of 2230
3/17/08 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

I've run across several posts now saying they have had issues with dts masters when bitstreamed to their receivers. Apparently it causes an extremely loud popping sound that can damage your speakers. (reminds me of when you would send bitstream dts to an incompatible receiver)

-The Fly
-Fantastic Four
-The Golden Compass
-Chronos

It is unknown if this is a disc, player or receiver problem but it only happens when Masters is bitstreamed to your receiver.

Please test at your own risk!!!
Even low volumes can damage your system!!!

If you have watched any of these movies AND are bitstreaming DTS masters to a 1.3 receiver please post your results and what player and receiver you are using.
Also, if you run across any other titles please post.


The Fly (At the beginning of the movie when Jeff Goldblum goes to the magazines office, the main editor greets him and then walks out of his office door leaving Jeff Goldblum and Gina Davis in the office. Right when the door closes the audio goes ballastic.)-jsmiddleton4

Fantastic Four (Its the first scene where Reed and Victor are negotiating in his office. Right around the time they shake hands on the 75/25 deal.)-strange_brew

Chronos (near the end of the movie arouind 38:50 to 38:55 (38:52 exactly I think) where the camera is looking up at the cathedral ceiling with the lights shining thru)-kinglerxt


Involved Equipment:
Player-receiver
Panasonic BD30-Onkyo 705
Panasonic BD30-Yamaha 1800
Panasonic BD30-Onkyo 805
Panasonic BD30-Onkyo 605
Panasonic BD30-Onkyo Pro PR885

I watched the Fly and DID experience the pop.

Pioneer BDP-95FD
Integra 9.8 pre/pro
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post #16 of 2230
3/17/08 at 3:02pm
What the heck are you guys babbling about? I only use bitstream, and I use my Onkyo 705. I have seen Fantastic Four 4 times and absolutely no pop at all.

Are you guys sure that you have proper speakers and proper powered subs that can handle lossless audio?

My Onkyo sub used to pop because it was bottoming out, so I upgraded to a bigger badder sub; the Hsu VTF-3 MK3, and all has been beautiful since.

My equipment is:
Onkyo 705
Panny BD30
Subwoofer: Hsu VTF-3.3
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post #17 of 2230
3/17/08 at 3:09pm
Perhaps pussified subs are to blame?

I guess not being able to bitstream DTS-MA with the PS3 has a potential upside.
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post #18 of 2230
3/17/08 at 3:19pm
deja vu! re: DTS causing speaker damage.

reminds me of the Jurassic Park DTS LD!
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post #19 of 2230
3/17/08 at 3:28pm
But where is the proof of speaker damage? The original poster says DTS-MA bitstreamed can cause speaker damage. Where is the proof? Proof is in the pudding...
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post #20 of 2230
3/17/08 at 3:32pm
I guess I've been lucky not to have that happen with my DTS-HD MA discs. I hope by speaking it doesn't change my luck.
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post #21 of 2230
3/17/08 at 3:55pm
Wait the minute...so the OP's only claim is that it causes popping and no actual proof that it causes speaker damage? What the hell!

I can see that sustained, loud popping noises can cause speaker damage but this can occur with any signal, whether it is DTS-HD MA, or Dolby TrueHD or linear PCM. So the statement that DTS-HD MA causes speaker damage is a bit dubious.
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post #22 of 2230
3/17/08 at 4:01pm
[quote=shamus;13400778]Not yet...
Are you suggesting this isn't important?[/QUOTE
Not at all, I just want to know all the informations on this issue.
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post #23 of 2230
3/17/08 at 4:05pm
Somewhat OT. This may be an Onkyo issue because I get a single pop that is so loud that the Onkyo goes into fault mode when watching On Demand with my Directv PVR. My heart goes into fault mode as well!
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post #24 of 2230
3/17/08 at 4:08pm
[quote=Gary Murrell;13401952]IMHO this is a HDMI cable issue, just a good guess, no proof, but this is the exact thing that would happen with high datarates dropping out because of a cheaper HDMI cable, those that are having this problem should order a silver blue jeans 24awg HDMI cable

I have tested various HDMI cables sending high bitrate audio etc., the cheaper ones dropped out randomly once every movie or two, causing pops and cracks, the higher end ones didn't, I haven't had such a problem in months and months since doing the testing which was a day or two after high bitrate audio capability hit

try it out

I think there might be some truth to this or the Onkyo.
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post #25 of 2230
3/17/08 at 4:29pm
Yes I know the correct spelling is lerxst but I wanted to be different and a non-conformist to follow the Rush principles and also a lot of times the version with the "-xst" is already taken

Quote:
Originally Posted by circumstances View Post

just had to say hi, since we both have rush-related screennames.

and it's "lerxst!"
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post #26 of 2230
3/17/08 at 4:31pm
Well it was the 1st time I ever heard such a pop sound of course not all the movies had the ultrahigh def sound options so...

weird it would repeat in the same spot if it was a cable issue

I will also be emailing the mfg/producers of the Chronos video to ask them to test it if possible and if they know anything
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post #27 of 2230
3/17/08 at 4:33pm
[quote=cambrian;13403466]Wait the minute...so the OP's only claim is that it causes popping and no actual proof that it causes speaker damage? What the hell!

Imagine someone making unsubstantiated claims on the internet.
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post #28 of 2230
3/17/08 at 4:35pm
This is why when I originally posted this problem on Chronos in another thread I asked if it was a possible sub/setup issue
Mynew SVS PB10NSD sub wil be here soon because my old Infinity sub died a while back so Im technially only at 5.0 right now with no sub
So I was wondering if it was because I had no sub that it may have cause my mains to extend too far during that scene
Will have to retest on a VERY low volume when my sub arrives but if anyone else has Chronos, please test it to verify

Quote:
Originally Posted by BluLover View Post

What the heck are you guys babbling about? I only use bitstream, and I use my Onkyo 705. I have seen Fantastic Four 4 times and absolutely no pop at all.

Are you guys sure that you have proper speakers and proper powered subs that can handle lossless audio?
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post #29 of 2230
3/17/08 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest User1 View Post

I watched the Fly and did NOT experience any pops. I've never experienced pops on any BD movie with DTS-HD MA and I've watched several. My equipment is:

Pioneer BDP-95FD
Integra 9.8 pre/pro

I have watched the Fantastic Four and have not experienced any issues either. Same equipment here.
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post #30 of 2230
3/17/08 at 4:49pm
Here is a confirmation of the pop issue I found in Chronos but from another AVS forum user here about 2 months ago:
He reports it in the same exact spot!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post12856502
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