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Harman receivers have a logic 7 bug

post #1 of 34
3/19/08 at 5:15pm
Thread Starter 
At least the 745 does. With logic 7 engaged over a 5.1 digital source ( dolby digital dts etc ) there is no LFE track ( verified by Avia and DVE ) The center channel redirected bass is 10 db too hot and the rear redirected bass is 5 db too low.
If you turn the center channel to none in the setup and recheck it, everything is fine ..lfe track is there, center and rear directed bass is correct.

Please call Harman and get them to correct this
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post #2 of 34
3/19/08 at 6:06pm
Since YOU are the one with the problem I suggest YOU call Harman tech support and find out what the problem is, if they have a fix, or whether you have a setup error.
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post #3 of 34
3/19/08 at 6:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Since YOU are the one with the problem I suggest YOU call Harman tech support and find out what the problem is, if they have a fix, or whether you have a setup error.

If just one person calls that will get about as much attention as a single blade of grass does.
Secondly, its not a setup error ..Its a bug. The disturbing thing is, Harman Just came out with a firmware upgrade that supposedly fixes a logic 7 bass problem.
This bug was there before the upgrade also in case your wondering. I just couldnt put my finger on the exact problem untill tonight

PS. Im not the only one with the problem ...Id venture to say everyone who owns a 745 has this problem ( maybe the 645 as well )
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post #4 of 34
3/20/08 at 4:14am
Thread Starter 
bump for a BIG bug
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post #5 of 34
3/20/08 at 4:27pm
Bump as well. I am on your side on this one. HK/Lexicon need to fix this fast.
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post #6 of 34
3/20/08 at 4:52pm
Can you please post in this thread what Harman has said to YOU about your "big bug". I understand things sound a bit broken and logic 7 processing is a no go on YOUR AVR. Please call them before getting all in an uproar. Maybe YOUR unit is broken and needs to be serviced.

Relax and try DPllx out for a while The Sky is not falling.

This is not a HK forum, they don't have service folks on this list helping people (that I know of).

Have Fun!
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post #7 of 34
3/20/08 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohny View Post

If just one person calls that will get about as much attention as a single blade of grass does.
Secondly, its not a setup error ..Its a bug. The disturbing thing is, Harman Just came out with a firmware upgrade that supposedly fixes a logic 7 bass problem.
This bug was there before the upgrade also in case your wondering. I just couldnt put my finger on the exact problem untill tonight

PS. Im not the only one with the problem ...Id venture to say everyone who owns a 745 has this problem ( maybe the 645 as well )

From my experience with them H/K will not need to be flooded with complaints before they investigate and fix a production problem. They have probably the best customer support of any major CE manufacturer. Just take your problem to them in a straightforward fashion and I think you will find they take you seriously. Heck, I once called them just to stress my concern about a problem some magazine reviewer had with one of their CD players and they offered to immediately replace mine with a newer model, even though mine worked just fine!
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post #8 of 34
3/20/08 at 5:46pm
Why are you starting multiple threads on the same topic. Please don't do that.
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post #9 of 34
3/20/08 at 5:49pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Can you please post in this thread what Harman has said to YOU about your "big bug". I understand things sound a bit broken and logic 7 processing is a no go on YOUR AVR. Please call them before getting all in an uproar. Maybe YOUR unit is broken and needs to be serviced.

Harman hasnt said anything about it yet, Ive called and talked to tech support and tried to convey to them what the problem is.
Its not "MY bug" its not "MY unit" and its not "MY setup" that is the problem. Its happening on at least 5 units that I know of, and my guess is that its happening on every single unit out there..but most people dont even know that its doing it. I hate to see Logic 7's ( or Harmans ) reputation tarnessed by something like a simple bug.
I think Harman Kardon makes the best sounding receivers on the market and I love the 745, if they could get this issue squared away it would be almost perfect. By the way, this issue has been around for awhile and Harman just released a firmware upgrade that they thought took care of the logic 7 bass issues.
So go back to whatever section of avs that your familar with and stay out of this one unless you have something of value to add.
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post #10 of 34
3/20/08 at 5:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


Why are you starting multiple threads on the same topic. Please don't do that

I guess your referring to the Lexicon logic 7 thread I started. I started that thread specifically for the help from the Lexicon crowd. The Lexicon MV-5/RV-5 as I understand it, is basically a H/K 745 and may have the same issues. The lexicon crowd has much more experience with logic 7 and this crowd normally doesnt read the "harman" threads, This was the reason for that thread specifically. Sorry for the multiple thread but in this case I thought it was justified.
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post #11 of 34
3/20/08 at 6:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


From my experience with them H/K will not need to be flooded with complaints before they investigate and fix a production problem. They have probably the best customer support of any major CE manufacturer.

Fair enough and point taken, I agree that Harman try's and make things right. Sometimes, conveying exactly what is broken is a major help in correcting the problem. My feeling is, Now that Harman knows the exact nature of the problem that they will indeed fix it.
Having said that, its not the quiet wheel that gets the grease.
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post #12 of 34
3/20/08 at 6:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

Why are you starting multiple threads on the same topic. Please don't do that.

I agree!
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post #13 of 34
3/20/08 at 6:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


I agree!

Another invaluble post from my buddy B&W ..Then why are you here reading it ?
You dont own a H/K , you've made it painfully clear that you have nothing but contempt for Harman, yet your always buzzing around the Harman threads
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post #14 of 34
3/20/08 at 6:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohny View Post

Another invaluble post from my buddy B&W ..Then why are you here reading it ?
You dont own a H/K , you've made it painfully clear that you have nothing but contempt for Harman, yet your always buzzing around the Harman threads

It is because you have multiple posts on this. WE CAN'T AVOID IT.
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post #15 of 34
3/20/08 at 6:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


It is because you have multiple posts on this. WE CAN'T AVOID IT

Try harder
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post #16 of 34
3/20/08 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohny View Post

Try harder

I will take that under consideration
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post #17 of 34
3/21/08 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohny View Post

Try harder

I agree with John. I do not know either of you but he has made it clear why he posted additional threads then idiots like you come on the thread to add no additional value. I think the moderators have this forum under control fine and they do not need your help.
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post #18 of 34
4/28/08 at 7:25am
logic 7 on DD track is useless guys...
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post #19 of 34
4/28/08 at 8:15am
For everyones info here is the Lexicon forum, which has factory reps on it. That would be the place to talk about Logic 7.

www.smr-forums.com

I agree that HK receivers are some of the best sounding receivers out there, especially with JBL speakers. But it would appear that since HK gear has been made in China their QC has gone down, compared to when HK was made in the US. I've got HK Citation pre-amp/power amp dating back to the late '70's.
I've got a 635 and had to have the first one replaced within the first 9 months. And now the second unit, the mic setup doesn't work anymore.
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post #20 of 34
4/30/08 at 2:10pm
Anyone care to hazard a guess on whether HK will fix this problem before they introduce the 754 in late 2008? I think that may be the receiver for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohny View Post

Fair enough and point taken, I agree that Harman try's and make things right. Sometimes, conveying exactly what is broken is a major help in correcting the problem. My feeling is, Now that Harman knows the exact nature of the problem that they will indeed fix it.
Having said that, its not the quiet wheel that gets the grease.
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post #21 of 34
4/30/08 at 3:03pm
I agree with psujohny that there is a bug in the 745 Logic7 processing. I have contacted Harman Kardon about it but they have not gotten back with me yet. BTW, I have posted my findings in a very detailed manner with screen shots and explanations at my site. Please CLICK here to check it out. Please post your comments.
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post #22 of 34
4/30/08 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohny View Post

I guess your referring to the Lexicon logic 7 thread I started. I started that thread specifically for the help from the Lexicon crowd. The Lexicon MV-5/RV-5 as I understand it, is basically a H/K 745 and may have the same issues. The lexicon crowd has much more experience with logic 7 and this crowd normally doesnt read the "harman" threads, This was the reason for that thread specifically. Sorry for the multiple thread but in this case I thought it was justified.

While the 745 and the RV-5 may share some features I doubt seriously if they are the same component. They are not the same company though both are owned by Harman International. Historically, the H/K version of Logic 7 has usually been less then the full feature version created and used by Lexicon. In any event, I think you are best off looking for a fix from H/K rather than Lexicon.
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post #23 of 34
4/30/08 at 5:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:


While the 745 and the RV-5 may share some features I doubt seriously if they are the same component. They are not the same company though both are owned by Harman International. Historically, the H/K version of Logic 7 has usually been less then the full feature version created and used by Lexicon. In any event, I think you are best off looking for a fix from H/K rather than Lexicon.

__________________


The Lexicon RV-5 also has a less then full featured logic 7 too, its not full featured logic 7 like all the "real" Lexicon units ..Check it out when you have time, it is the HK 745.

PS. By the way , Everybody Ive talked to at Harman doesnt acknowledge that there is a problem ( or more likely dont understand there product very well ...at least tech support Im soory to have to say ) , So Im pretty sure there not gonna fix it ...and the newer H/K receivers coming out Id bet will have the same flawed Logic 7 in them
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post #24 of 34
5/1/08 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by psujohny View Post

__________________


The Lexicon RV-5 also has a less then full featured logic 7 too, its not full featured logic 7 like all the "real" Lexicon units ..Check it out when you have time, it is the HK 745.

That's the way I see it. If you look at the back panels of the MV-5, RV-5 neither one is labeled like other Lexicon products. That is with the marking, "designed and assembled in the USA".
So that would suggest that they are manufactured in China, along with all the HK receivers.
It has been stated, elsewhere, that maybe the MV-5, RV-5 are just transition products until Lexicon comes out with completely new models.
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post #25 of 34
5/1/08 at 9:27am
To answer "Manufactured in China" questions - while that may affect the hardware reliability, this Logic7 issue is definitely a software issue. So, unless HK is designing software in China, let's leave that out of this topic.
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post #26 of 34
5/1/08 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bommai View Post

To answer "Manufactured in China" questions - while that may affect the hardware reliability, this Logic7 issue is definitely a software issue. So, unless HK is designing software in China, let's leave that out of this topic.

What other common denominator is there? The HK receivers and the MV-5, RV-5 have problems that the more expensive Lexicons don't. Maybe it is just a coincidence, maybe not. And yes, the L7 is a software problem.
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post #27 of 34
5/1/08 at 1:54pm
Hi,

I do have experience with both the HK745 and the Lexicon RV-5 and they are NOT identical. In fact I was surprised that the RV-5 really feels like a Lexicon for lack of a better word and not a rebadged HK. While I do not want to go into all of the differences I can definitely say that Logic 7 works differently on the RV-5 than on the HK745 - the RV-5 does not have the Logic 7 bug described here for HK that I also noticed on the 745.

Oliver
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post #28 of 34
5/1/08 at 3:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver Klohs View Post

Hi,

I do have experience with both the HK745 and the Lexicon RV-5 and they are NOT identical. In fact I was surprised that the RV-5 really feels like a Lexicon for lack of a better word and not a rebadged HK. While I do not want to go into all of the differences I can definitely say that Logic 7 works differently on the RV-5 than on the HK745 - the RV-5 does not have the Logic 7 bug described here for HK that I also noticed on the 745.

Oliver

The following is from the SMR forum.
Quote:


I agree 100% with your assessment. The problem is that the new Lex RV-5 and MV-5 are based off the same platform as the HK receivers. I have since been to a dealer and verified by testing that the Lexicon products have the same Logic 7 issues and bugs that the HK stuff does. I am concerned that Lexicon would even take a chance with their reputation by allowing their Logic 7 to be heard and get into consumers hands with these issues.
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post #29 of 34
5/2/08 at 1:46am
4DHD,

as I am a bit concerned with the way the 745 center channel gets so much LFE, too I made the exact same test with the Lexicon and the Lex had the same LFE for all three front channels, so there you have it: Not the same issues.

This was with the European version of the RV-5 so maybe they fixed the LFE bug as found on the Hk units already on those. Apart from that judging from the menus and setup options I'd say that the Lexicon has a software and setup philosphy that is different, and better, than the Harman units.

Oliver
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post #30 of 34
5/2/08 at 9:07am
Unless the front channels are run full range, there should not be any LFE output to any of the three front speakers, only to the sub.
So no matter if its going to just the center or all three, its wrong.
And my perspective is that Lexicon products should be better than the HK products. And for all the other Lexicon products that is very true.
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