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How does your sub do on this scene?

post #1 of 22
3/19/08 at 5:49pm
Thread Starter 
"Monster’s Inc. (DD-EX), “23-19” Sock Detonation 0:18:40 "

This scene was used by Ed Mullen to test the PB10 ISD (a few years back) in his review of the sub. It peaked at 104dB (-9 MV). I thought it would be neat to try my single PB13-Ultra and see how it did.

I'm not sure how far Ed was from the PB10-ISD, but here are my conditions and results.

The speakers were all calibrated to 70 dB using Avia II which is -15 dB on my Master Volume (MV). Listening postion is 13.5 feet from the sub. I made three passes increasing the volume a little on each measurement. This was done with the Radio Shack digital SPL meter C weighted slow MAX. 20 Hz tune.

1. -9 on MV= 111 dB
2. - 8 on MV= 112 dB
3. -6 on MV= 113 dB

Pretty darned impressive I'd say. -6 was as high as I would go. I thought I heard a slight pop from the sub (possible distress?). I'd like to know how other subs do on this scene if you're interested.

I hope this is okay Ed.
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post #2 of 22
3/19/08 at 6:04pm
You are most likely approaching your limits. Going from -8 to -6 and only getting a 1db increase in output from the sub probably means you are beginning to compress or are hitting limiters. The pop you heard may be the limiter kicking in.
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post #3 of 22
3/19/08 at 6:26pm
Thread Starter 
That aside, I'm curious to see how some of the other subs out there do (not just Ultras). I do think I have finally maxed out the sub though.
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post #4 of 22
3/19/08 at 6:47pm
Just buy 7 more ultras, and you will get about the same readings as I get.
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post #5 of 22
3/20/08 at 12:01am
Last time I tried it, something like 123db

I'll try it tomorrow with my better tweaked setup.
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post #6 of 22
3/20/08 at 5:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

"Monster's Inc. (DD-EX), 23-19 Sock Detonation 0:18:40 "

This scene was used by Ed Mullen to test the PB10 ISD (a few years back) in his review of the sub. It peaked at 104dB (-9 MV). I thought it would be neat to try my single PB13-Ultra and see how it did.

I'm not sure how far Ed was from the PB10-ISD, but here are my conditions and results.

The speakers were all calibrated to 70 dB using Avia II which is -15 dB on my Master Volume (MV). Listening postion is 13.5 feet from the sub. I made three passes increasing the volume a little on each measurement. This was done with the Radio Shack digital SPL meter C weighted slow MAX. 20 Hz tune.

1. -9 on MV= 111 dB
2. - 8 on MV= 112 dB
3. -6 on MV= 113 dB

Pretty darned impressive I'd say. -6 was as high as I would go. I thought I heard a slight pop from the sub (possible distress?). I'd like to know how other subs do on this scene if you're interested.

I hope this is okay Ed.


Was this with your sub only, or with other speakers on as well?
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post #7 of 22
3/20/08 at 5:50am
I blew up a pair of NHT1259's about seven years ago this this scene.

I never measured, but my quad Tumults get about an inch of travel with about 2" of headroom.

KG
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post #8 of 22
3/20/08 at 6:46am
I trust this is the scene in question then?


Well since I had I the JBL cinema already warmed up this morning after doing some other tests of sort I'd thought I'll try this scene out again, since I haven't played it well over 2 years.

The frequency had to be readjusted on the RTA I mean the level input because it sent lit the whole display up like Christmas tree! This scene was mostly peaking within the 40Hz while a mild lower response down at 25Hz had a sight peak but not as high as 40Hz.

The sound pressure LOL was first at 115dbc then I thought lets try 120dbc then I tried 123dbc no problems what so ever apart from it was pressing on my body and humming like a good one!



















I had the THX peak management turned ON and set at -10db.

The master fader was set at -5db the amplifiers that are driving the fronts are made of Alesis RA300 for LF LCR and LFE.1 there are two Alesis RA300 at present soon the whole JBL rig will be driven by Alesis RA300 and RA500.

The HF LCR was driven by Marantz 1050 while Marantz 1030 drives the sidewall surround arrays and one single channel on the other Marantz 1050 drives the centre back surround arrays.

Matching JBL control 5 covers the fronts with even spacing and height level to give exceptionally wild stereo and good centre channel focus over the sofa area.

JBL control 1 8 in present use when set for centre back surrounds. Two placed in the middle to cover sofa seating area with a wild rush of whoosh!

Two more placed on the back wall are wired in series with the two sidewall surrounds. I plan to stick the others up today if I can salvage some cable for the matrix overhead surround arrays.

Sub bass extension is driving LCRS via smaller sub bass only Eltax A-12 R 12

I had plenty more amplifier power on tap if wanted it but even the strength of dynamic range of most movie soundtracks in the collection and the room size and the distance I am to the speakers there is no need for over the top deafening levels, thou some tend to have that kinder of range sometimes without distorting or breaking up.
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post #9 of 22
3/20/08 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

I blew up a pair of NHT1259's about seven years ago this this scene.

I never measured, but my quad Tumults get about an inch of travel with about 2" of headroom.

KG

Always rehearse new films always because someday a film will come by and take out the sub! If you feel it isn’t up to the task then turn it down and remember always rehearse before showing off!!!
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post #10 of 22
3/20/08 at 3:43pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

Was this with your sub only, or with other speakers on as well?


The scene is a "sub only" type of scene as in all you hear is a low frequency hoompft when they blow up the sock from George's back. Mains were not disengaged...
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post #11 of 22
3/20/08 at 3:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBLsound4645 View Post

I trust this is the scene in question then?


Well since I had I the JBL cinema already warmed up this morning after doing some other tests of sort I'd thought I'll try this scene out again, since I haven't played it well over 2 years.

The frequency had to be readjusted on the RTA I mean the level input because it sent lit the whole display up like Christmas tree! This scene was mostly peaking within the 40Hz while a mild lower response down at 25Hz had a sight peak but not as high as 40Hz.

The sound pressure LOL was first at 115dbc then I thought lets try 120dbc then I tried 123dbc no problems what so ever apart from it was pressing on my body and humming like a good one!



















I had the THX peak management turned ON and set at -10db.

The master fader was set at -5db the amplifiers that are driving the fronts are made of Alesis RA300 for LF LCR and LFE.1 there are two Alesis RA300 at present soon the whole JBL rig will be driven by Alesis RA300 and RA500.

The HF LCR was driven by Marantz 1050 while Marantz 1030 drives the sidewall surround arrays and one single channel on the other Marantz 1050 drives the centre back surround arrays.

Matching JBL control 5 covers the fronts with even spacing and height level to give exceptionally wild stereo and good centre channel focus over the sofa area.

JBL control 1 8 in present use when set for centre back surrounds. Two placed in the middle to cover sofa seating area with a wild rush of whoosh!

Two more placed on the back wall are wired in series with the two sidewall surrounds. I plan to stick the others up today if I can salvage some cable for the matrix overhead surround arrays.

Sub bass extension is driving LCRS via smaller sub bass only Eltax A-12 R 12

I had plenty more amplifier power on tap if wanted it but even the strength of dynamic range of most movie soundtracks in the collection and the room size and the distance I am to the speakers there is no need for over the top deafening levels, thou some tend to have that kinder of range sometimes without distorting or breaking up.


Very impressive performance, but it is not this scene. It's the one at 18:40 when the CDA destroys the sock.
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post #12 of 22
3/20/08 at 3:48pm
Thread Starter 
Also, I'd like to know how far away you are from the sub when the measurement is made. For example, my listening position is 13.5ft from the sub in a nearly 4000 cu ft room.
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post #13 of 22
3/20/08 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

Very impressive performance, but it is not this scene. It's the one at 18:40 when the CDA destroys the sock.

Okay cheers for that I’ll play it in the morning it is a bit late now its flipping 23:10hours thou I might play it softly just to find the scene in question at 18 minutes: 40 seconds.

Cheers mate wouldn’t surprise anyone that I have had STAR TREK II the Wrath of Khan playing 5 times or is 6 times today KHANN! KHANN! still running and Spock has just died for the sixth time today, he's dead Jim I’ll hath to try the kids scream to see how it compares with [Heather O'Rourke] Carol Anne Freeling with [Mary Gibbs] Boo / Mary (voice)!

Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

Also, I'd like to know how far away you are from the sub when the measurement is made. For example, my listening position is 13.5ft from the sub in a nearly 4000 cu ft room.

Who, who me? About 8 feet 4” away from the front of the main LFE.1 sub JBL 4645 that’s where the deep buzzing low was coming from, while the other sub played a different type of sound.
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post #14 of 22
3/20/08 at 4:35pm
Bugger I just remembered this a region 1 DVD and I’m running region 2 therefore there is frame rate diffrnce VS the time difference of the film what's the chapter number or the scene called?

I’ve got the film running again I need to know now, thanks.
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post #15 of 22
3/20/08 at 4:44pm
Thread Starter 
"23-19" Chapter 9
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post #16 of 22
3/20/08 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

"23-19" Chapter 9

Yeah I found the scene after jogging though between the original time and managed to finely find it, cheers.

17 minutes: 54 seconds. Kaboom! LOL now I remember the scene well I did say its been like 2 years since I watched it last. It played fine at -15db on the master fader I had the master fader on the mixer turned down as well because its late and it still went Kaboom! Not sure of the SPL db level or the in-room frequency response on the RTA.

I'll play this scene again in the morning should be fun.

So here are some screen captures from the scene and please don't tell me this isn't the scene. LOL anyways I'm getting some sleep now guys I've got a cold shoulder on my right side and its killing me!

















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post #17 of 22
3/21/08 at 7:47am
has anyone done the scene where boo laughs for the first time?? thats a fun scene!

the sock is sick too
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post #18 of 22
3/21/08 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdk2007 View Post

has anyone done the scene where boo laughs for the first time?? thats a fun scene!

the sock is sick too

Time 29minutes 25seconds though to 29 minutes 33 seconds.

This is nicely played out scene with James P. "Sulley" Sullivan and Mike Wazowski in total panic about the little child Boo with Mike, stumbling over and flying into trash bin, followed by a bundle of books falling into his open month, followed by radio falling onto him.

This sets Boo, off into fit of joyfully laughter that sends out waves of electricity that grows and grows in waves of low end.

The maximum this peaked at was 119dbc







Where the books and then with the radio fulling on Mike which is carried in the centre channel mostly while mild echo carries on the left and right. The thump of the radio made me cringe as it hit me in the chest while standing towards the back of the sofa.98dbc.



As Boo starts to giggle with joy due to seeing the funny side when the radio falls on Mikes head a slow like sine wave or more like frequency sweep start over the LCR which is accompanied by the LFE.1 starts ascending upwards, lights start getting brighter! LOL






Once the light bulb shatters everything dulls down to stillness.

I noted that playing the muffled explosion scene where the CDA bust in to decontaminate the monster factor and where the [muffled explosion] goes off which is very high peak and if someone where careless playing this scene over a limit where the sub bass might just make popping sound that’s bad!

I can’t make out what I wrote down in the other room. I wrote SPL db figures and time of the event but I need to go over this again fellers. Not tonight I want to have a quite night so I’ll go over the scenes again in the morning and then edit this post.


I also need to take an RTA reading and thou the Technics SH-8055 only has range from 25Hz 40Hz 62Hz 100Hz 160Hz 250Hz 500Hz 1KHz 2KHz 4KHz 8KHz 16KHz

With the Behringer MIC100 preamplifier and Behringer ECM8000 calibration microphone it’s good enough to see basic response.

I had to readjust the settings on the MIC100 because the ECM800 is fairly sensitive with -60, range and the whole display on the RTA was lighting up far too much.

I’m sure the [muffled explosion scene] has peak that is slightly higher than the Boo laugh.
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post #19 of 22
3/21/08 at 2:23pm
do we know what type of frequency that scene is playing at?? I thouhgt my house was going to come a part with my two 18's fun movie....tonight is Darla and Incredibles!
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post #20 of 22
3/21/08 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdk2007 View Post

do we know what type of frequency that scene is playing at?? I thouhgt my house was going to come a part with my two 18's fun movie....tonight is Darla and Incredibles!

My rough guess was and I know I should have been on my toes when I played this scene and the over scene over and over and over this morning it. The [muffled explosion] peaked at around 40Hz that’s in-room response. I think thou I should re-test the scene again with Boo laughing was somewhere between 25Hz and 40Hz because of the way the RTA looked when just peeking at it, it was as if there was deep tone peaking between 25Hz and 40Hz.

If I played that crazy scene from Flight of the Phoenix there is slow and sometimes rapid peaks at 25Hz! The sound pressure in the room is nuts!

Oh, there is just one other thing. My bathroom door which is next to the JBL home cinema was buzzing loud so I need to secure doors and windows down tightly because the sound was so omni-directional at the time I couldn’t quite place it. I thought my JBL 4645 was distorting! So tighten the place down before playing the [Boo laughing scene].
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post #21 of 22
3/21/08 at 2:55pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBLsound4645 View Post

My rough guess was and I know I should have been on my toes when I played this scene and the over scene over and over and over this morning it. The [muffled explosion] peaked at around 40Hz that’s in-room response. I think thou I should re-test the scene again with Boo laughing was somewhere between 25Hz and 40Hz because of the way the RTA looked when just peeking at it, it was as if there was deep tone peaking between 25Hz and 40Hz.

If I played that crazy scene from Flight of the Phoenix there is slow and sometimes rapid peaks at 25Hz! The sound pressure in the room is nuts!

Oh, there is just one other thing. My bathroom door which is next to the JBL home cinema was buzzing loud so I need to secure doors and windows down tightly because the sound was so omni-directional at the time I couldn’t quite place it. I thought my JBL 4645 was distorting! So tighten the place down before playing the [Boo laughing scene].

Yes that is the scene! Just curious if you made a measurement? Also, how many subs are you running? Thanks!
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post #22 of 22
3/21/08 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv View Post

Just curious if you made a measurement? Also, how many subs are you running? Thanks!



It’s in the picture thou I cropped of the left-hand-side where the smaller Eltax A-12 R is its 12” sub bass driver that only deals with LCRS. Thou I could send the LFE.1 over to it via channel 6 on the mixer where I’ll just rotate the pan pot from right to left.

But it doesn’t handle the extreme range of the LFE.1 like the JBL 4645 does. It could handle the LFE.1 only I would have to turn it down to prevent damage as I’m a very cautious person.

I used a 100Hz sine wave from the dts demonstration and music set-up disc and used the RTA measurement microphone ECM8000 and MIC100 to set the levels via the mixer that isn’t in the picture its slightly off to the left-hand-side.

I just popped over to the other site and dug out one of my other pictures its more or less the same only this one was taken at least 9 or so weeks ago.

You can see the mixer placed to the left-hand-side in the picture and the various amplifiers and the DCX2496 and many more items packed in. I use the FBQ2496 with left channel LFE.1 and summed LCRS on right channel.


One other thing is the way this plays out here may not sound the same if I transported this into your room, it may sound the same or I may have to make few small adjustments. This is a very small room and I’m surprised how well it’s turned out so far, especially on a concrete floor.
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