Does your receiver pass HDMI video unmodified?

It turns out that not all HDMI switching receivers pass video unmodified from an HDMI input to their HDMI output. For example, some are clipping levels below black (16) or above white (235), whether the input is limited range YCbCr or full range RGB. This means:-
o You can't use a blacker-than-black test pattern to calibrate your display.
o You can't use full range RGB signals (e.g. from a game console or PC) without crushing blacks and whites.
o If you come across a movie that was authored with black at level 0 instead of 16, you won't be able to recover the missing shadow detail by raising the brightness on your display (for a real example see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...5&postcount=70).

The poll is designed to find out if people think this is an important issue. There are two "Yes" answers to establish which is the more common use for levels outside the range of standard video. If both "Yes" answers apply, then choose the one that's more important to you.

The other goal of this thread is to compile a list of which receivers can pass all video levels, and which can't, specifically over their HDMI inputs. This should allow prospective buyers to find out in advance which models pass HDMI signals unmodified.

Update: Although more results are definitely welcome, we now have enough reports to see that only Yamaha intentionally limited HDMI inputs to levels 16-235, and only on their initial HDMI 1.3 models. Other major brands have been verified as passing BTB (or if not a fix is promised). Furthermore, a large majority (over two thirds) of people who voted in the poll expressed a preference for passing HDMI signals unmodified. Several popular equipment review sites have also indicated that they will now make this a standard test for receivers.

News Flash: (17-Oct-09) Yamaha finally released new firmware for the RX-Z11 that fixes the clipping problem.
News Flash: (12-Mar-09) Yamaha released new firmware for the RX-V1800 and 3800 that allows them to pass BTB/WTW and full range RGB.
News Flash: (30-Oct-08) Harman Kardon have just released a firmware update that claims to allow the AVR-254 and 354 to pass BTB/WTW.
News Flash (16-Oct-08): Yamaha have just released new models that do not clip (starting with the RX-V1900). They obviously realized their mistake, but are still (so far) refusing to fix the models that do clip.
News Flash (31-Jul-08): Yamaha USA have posted a firmware update for the Z11 on their web site, but it doesn't seem to have fixed the clipping. One report states that BTB is still not visible.

Below I've listed receivers that have been reported as passing, or not passing, signals outside of the range 16-235. Keep in mind that passing BTB with a YCbCr signal likely means it also passes WTW, but it doesn't necessarily mean the same device will pass full range RGB. And some reports might not be as reliable as others (I've tried to filter out ones that don't sound convincing). Also, firmware updates can change things. This list is far from complete, but I have tried to make sure what's reported is accurate.


Receivers known to clip HDMI inputs (only levels 16-235 are passed)
Yamaha RX-V1800/V3800 (several reports in this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=888942) now FIXED!
Yamaha HTR-6190 (this is the same as the 1800. I own the 6190 and it definitely does not pass BTB) now FIXED!
Yamaha RX-Z11 (reported in this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=885045) now FIXED!

Yamaha RX-V663 (confirmed not to pass BTB or full range RGB. see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post13770862 and following posts)
...the 863 is confirmed to clip also (reported in this thread).

Harman Kardon AVR 254 (clipping reported here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14067755).
...a firmware update has just been released that should fix the clipping (still needs to be confirmed that it works).

Onkyo TX-SR806 (clipping reported here: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/proce...eceiver_3.html). However, there are also reports that clipping is avoided if the "Immediate Display" feature is turned off.


Receivers known to pass HDMI unmodified (all levels are passed)
Yamaha RX-V1900 (BTB and full range RGB confirmed, see this thread and links from there).
... The RX-V3900 and RX-Z7 also pass HDMI unmodified.
... The new RX-Vx65 series is OK from first reports.

Sony STR-DG820 (BTB/WTW tested here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post14225910)

Onkyo TX-SR805 (passes BTB, see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post13442545)
...also confirmed for the 605/705, in this thread. So it's likely the 875/905 do too (not confirmed).
...also confirmed for the 606 (see http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post15981502).

Pioneer VSX-92THX/94THX (passes BTB, see this thread and links from there)
...seems likely the the 90 and 91 do too (not confirmed).

Denon AVR-3808CI (passes BTB, reported in this thread and also in a separate private communication)
...the 2308/2808/4308/5308 probably behave the same (not confirmed).
...the older 887 (HDMI 1.1) passes BTB (confirmed in this thread).

Marantz SR8002 (passes BTB and WTW as reported here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1#post13495201)
...seems very likely the SR7002 will be the same as the 8002.
...7001 also confirmed passing BTB (in this thread).

Panasonic SA-XR57 (passes BTB as reported in this thread).

Yamaha RX-V661 (passes BTB as reported in this thread).
...the 461 (European version with HDMI inputs) was also reported as passing BTB.
...(it seems the older Yamahas don't have the issue that the HDMI 1.3 models do)


How to test
If anyone can contribute new results, please post them in this thread. Note that we are specifically testing HDMI inputs. A simple test with a DVD player is to bring up a calibration pattern that's know to contain blacker-than-black (BTB), and see if it's visible (with your display brightness temporarily turned up above normal). If it is visible with your player connected to the receiver then BTB is being passed. But if it's not visible, don't blame the receiver until you know for sure that BTB is visible with the player connected directly to the display. PC users who rely on full range RGB signals (0-255) will have to try a different test to see if some levels are clipped (since there's no room for BTB when black is at level 0).

Note that some receivers might have a menu option to select full range or limited range, so double check your manual in case you missed this option.

Also note that if your source device has a brightness control (especially likely with HTPCs), you need to be sure you don't use that to raise black above level 16 (otherwise it may appear you can see blacker-than-black when in fact you are still only seeing levels from 16 and up).

This is simply not true. Limited range YCbCr means black is at level 16, but the spec does not disallow passing levels below 16 (in fact the part that you posted says values 1-254 are valid).

Passing BTB and WTW in YCbCr format over HDMI is supported by many CE devices. Equipment review sites test for it because it's an important feature, and most video sources and HDMI receivers support it. The problem is just that a few don't, and it would be nice to know about this before buying.

Judging by the size of the Onkyo threads, there must be a lot of people who own the 705/805/875/905 etc. Can anyone confirm or deny that they pass all video levels over HDMI?

You can calibrate without seeing BTB, although for people new to this I think BTB makes it easier.

But not all DVDs or BDs are mastered with the correct black level. It's not common, but I remember seeing a list somewhere of DVDs with pixel values below 16. And a recent example is Dirty Dancing on Blu-ray (no comments on the movie please ). The black level is completely off, and blacks are crushed badly in dark scenes. If your setup passes BTB, you just raise your display brightness and all the missing shadow detail appears, but if something is clipping BTB you won't see any more detail.

On Onkyo owner reported that the 805 passes BTB. It's likely that the related models (705/875/905) behave the same, but we still need confirmation.

I also asked the question in the Marantz 7002/8002 thread to see if we can get some real info on the new Marantz models.

The new Denons look to be another popular brand. Does anyone have any info on the 2808/3808/4308 etc? I see from the manual there's a menu setting for "RGB Range", but it looks like that might expand standard video levels to RGB full range on output. What I want is evidence that all HDMI input levels can be sent unmodified to the HDMI output.

If we can just get Marantz and Denon owners to do the test, then we'll have answers for all the popular brands. Come on, it's pretty simple

For normal movie watching with a source that sends standard video levels, it's a fairly minor issue (the vast majority of movies don't have anything below level 16).

However, I still think it's something you should know about before buying a receiver. From the poll in this thread a lot of people want to pass full range RGB signals (the poll didn't ask why, but there are a lot of gamers out there who might have already calibrated their TVs for full range). Before this issue came up most of these people wouldn't have thought twice about buying a Yamaha receiver, but now they might.

I also know that the A/V review sites are becoming aware of the issue, and I heard that http://www.ultimateavmag.com/ will now routinely test for this in their receiver reviews. I'd be surprised if others didn't do the same, because passing blacker-than-black is something they always test for in DVD players.

I hope Yamaha will respond to the large number of users who want their receiver to pass all levels, especially if it turns out they are the only manufacturer who decided to clip to 16-235. And if this can be fixed in firmware I hope they will do it. The new Yahama's are great sounding receivers, but for sure some people will be put off by this video problem.

Thanks for that. But did you mean both the 94thx and some other model (e.g. the 92?).

Thanks, just check the first post in this thread. I tried to give fairly detailed instructions.

I don't know about Avia, but do you have a Blu-ray player? Many Sony BDs (e.g. Casino Royale) include hidden test patterns (press numbers 7669 on your remote to access them). There you'll see the SMPTE colour bars: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:SMPTE_Color_Bars.svg

The black rectangle at the bottom below the red bar is divided into three smaller bars, and one of them is blacker-than-black.

You can use DVD movies that include the "THX Optimizer" (it's on at least some of the Star Wars DVDs, and I think on Finding Nemo and Toy Story).

Also I heard that the Cars and Ratatouille Blu-rays have test patterns accessible from the menu.

Thanks for the help. Just for completeness can I ask you what your source device was, and to confirm that it was connected via HDMI (and the more details you can give about the test you did, the better).