or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Download Services & Hardware › THX Chief Scientist: ...it's too late for Blu-ray
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

THX Chief Scientist: ...it's too late for Blu-ray - Page 9

post #241 of 328
You point out all of the obstacles that BD still faces, which are good points. But memory chips have all of these same obstacles, plus a whole boat-load more. Sticking with the football analogy, BD is on the opposing teams 30 yard line in field goal range. Memory Sticks are still in their own end zone, as far as I can see.
post #242 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

The technology and format is there, it just needs to be standardized and developed. Ideas are the root to any great force to make an impact in human living. I'm sure in the 70's the thought of a Microwave was a giant pipe dream but today they are in more homes than television sets. I agree, it is a few years off, but I don't see any urgency on Blu-Ray's part to attempt to take hold of mainstream american consumers other than the PS3 and the BDA telling people that George Bush Jr. wants you to spend your economy stimulas check on a Blu-Ray player.

The BDA needs to get the studios to support the idea of Blu-Ray being the next dominant format and to add incentives including making it affordable and priced competitively to SD-DVD. Am I asking them to subsidize it's adoption? You are darn right I am. They seemed to subsidize plenty in the battle with HD-DVD. Now that that competition is gone I think they are crazy to think people are going to run out and buy $400 Blu-Ray players and $30 discs for their 27" - 50" 720p televisions when the average consumer is hard pressed to tell a difference between 448kbps and 640kbps audio and 1080p downscaled to 720p and 480p upscaled on a decent budget upconverting SD-DVD player. All the while saving themselves from replacing their huge libraries that have amassed over the years. Blu-Ray is like a sports team with a small window of opportunity to win the big game. I don't see them making the moves to win it. The longer they wait, the more likely someone will come along and develop some of these "pipe dreams" and the increased benefits they have over a prssed physical disc.

Sure, it's just random discussion of undeveloped ideas at this point. But the amout of dismissal of those ideas in this thread is crazy. What I am seeing here is the same closed minded mentality that would have said that minidisc would be the next big audio format and digital music downloads would never have a chance. This is the same closed minded thinking that instead of a company like Sony partnering with Napster (in it's heyday) and taking advantage of the huge following they had acquired, worked to destroy it thus handing money and marketshare over to companies like Apple that doesn't think such pipe dreams aren't woth following and taking advantage of.

The ideas here are just not good. There are good ideas and then there are ideas that are not good.

These Flash based kiosk idea is not good because its almost completely based on a compromise of negatives.

1) Its not as easy as getting a movie at home(VOD/PPV)
2) Its not as easy as picking up a disc off the shelf and walking to the register.

Reading the comments here Its key highlights are...
a) You dont have to go ALL the way to Wal Mart for your movies
b) It doesnt take as long to download as VOD.

But you still have to leave your house... and now you have to download to flash. And your quality is subject to the compromise of speed and space. And you will need to remember your flashcard. Plus the number of movies you can get will be limited by space on the flash card
post #243 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

The ideas here are just not good. There are good ideas and then there are ideas that are not good.

These Flash based kiosk idea is not good because its almost completely based on a compromise of negatives.

Did you even bother to look at www.portomedia.com and the people involved with it?
post #244 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by eganov View Post

Did you even bother to look at www.portomedia.com and the people involved with it?

tqlla is not going to be convinced. Best to leave him to his narrowed minded views.
post #245 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

You guys keep changing the story. First it was USB drives that you can keep on your keychain and go to big retailers to download movies instead of buying Discs. Somehow thats transformed into SD card in kiosks at starbucks as an alternative to rentals..

To begin with, THX guy never specified big retailer or Starbucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

1) If you are in a nonmetro market without HSI... there are Blu ray discs/DVD you can buy.

Think about it...

Yes, think about it. Nonmetro markets without HSI. If thats what Bluray has going for it, then it really is too late for Bluray.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

2) SD cards are not exactly sturdy. My Sandisk 2GB extreme II SD card sure is dead. But it looks perfect. These kiosks will have to run tests on them to make sure they still work when you trade them in.

If I got a bad card I would tell the Kiosk operator. They would throw the bad one away and give me a new one. Same as if I got a bad Bluray disc.

If the card worked for me, it will most likely work for someone else.
post #246 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

You guys keep changing the story. First it was USB drives that you can keep on your keychain and go to big retailers to download movies instead of buying Discs. Somehow thats transformed into SD card in kiosks at starbucks as an alternative to rentals.

Dont say "you guys". I never once said anything about USB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

1) If you are in a nonmetro market without HSI... there are Blu ray discs/DVD you can buy.

And you couldn't purchase a movie on an SD card instead of a blu-ray disc? Same difference man. I'm just arguing for physical media in general here. I think memory cards will be the future, but in general I believe physical media is here to stay, for a very long time and don't see video downloads of any type superceding it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

Think about it. If you are in a market without HSI, without a nearby blockbuster or Bestbuy or Wal mart or Circuit City. What are the chances of your market getting an SD card based Kiosk around every corner.... dont these things need HSI too. So they have to pay higher rates for dedicated lines, and they will get less traffic.

The people I'm talking about aren't living out in the middle of nowhere. They're living out in places where the very high speeds are not available. Contrary to what you seem to believe, not everyone gets some awesome speed at home for $10/month. And I still see zero incentive for any ISP to lower their prices or increase bandwidth to some ungodly amount just so people can download movies instead of buy them on their ppv systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

2) SD cards are not exactly sturdy. My Sandisk 2GB extreme II SD card sure is dead. But it looks perfect. These kiosks will have to run tests on them to make sure they still work when you trade them in. That takes time too.

Oh please.. are you really going to say a memory card is any less sturdy than an optical disc? Or any less reliable than some set top box & internet connection & home network setup?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

3) I can undertand a SD card like ROM being a replacement for optical in the future, if they can get prices near the costs of Discs. But it would be a long way off. Not only does the Tech need to be there, Standards need to be set bickering needs to go on... then the inevitable Rom card format war needs to happen.

I can't disagree with you there. But either way, it's just MHO that video downloads will not surpass any type of physical media any time in the next 5-10 years, possibly longer. The bandwidth simply won't be there. Not on the client side or the server side.
post #247 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by impala454 View Post

Dont say "you guys". I never once said anything about USB.


And you couldn't purchase a movie on an SD card instead of a blu-ray disc? Same difference man. I'm just arguing for physical media in general here. I think memory cards will be the future, but in general I believe physical media is here to stay, for a very long time and don't see video downloads of any type superceding it.


The people I'm talking about aren't living out in the middle of nowhere. They're living out in places where the very high speeds are not available. Contrary to what you seem to believe, not everyone gets some awesome speed at home for $10/month. And I still see zero incentive for any ISP to lower their prices or increase bandwidth to some ungodly amount just so people can download movies instead of buy them on their ppv systems.


Oh please.. are you really going to say a memory card is any less sturdy than an optical disc? Or any less reliable than some set top box & internet connection & home network setup?


I can't disagree with you there. But either way, it's just MHO that video downloads will not surpass any type of physical media any time in the next 5-10 years, possibly longer. The bandwidth simply won't be there. Not on the client side or the server side.

1) Well, I cant respond to everyone. And apparantly everyone has a "Different vision" of these Kiosks. Stick with the original story, and you see there are a lot of holes in the plot. Even in each of everyone vision of the future... there are numerous different holes.

2) You can purchase a movie on an SD card. I am not discounting that as a ROM format. But carrying it around all the time and downloading it and uploading it. The extra handling, constant transporting, constant rewriting puts the media at risk.

3) How far in the future are you thinking? A couple years for these kiosks if they were to become prevalent? The Phone&Cable company has deemed your are are not worthwhile as an investment for growth. WHY would a Download based Kiosk be placed here? They have to have a dedicated line, which will be more expensive than in major markets, where there will be more foot traffic.

4) I dont carry my DVDs in my pocket and have them written over time and time again. They are kept in a case, and usually on a shelf.
post #248 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maltby View Post

To begin with, THX guy never specified big retailer or Starbucks.

Yes, think about it. Nonmetro markets without HSI. If thats what Bluray has going for it, then it really is too late for Bluray.



If I got a bad card I would tell the Kiosk operator. They would throw the bad one away and give me a new one. Same as if I got a bad Bluray disc.

If the card worked for me, it will most likely work for someone else.

1) Its obvious what he meant. A ROM type card may be another format in the future. But it will take a while. Its not going to be here tommorrow swooping in and killing off optical media. If you are talking 2+years.... BD will have captured a large enough portion of the market that people will be resistant to another format, unless it offers something better. Not a mishmash of compromises.

A card that limits you, that you have to carry with you and download/upload(depending on whose vision you are looking at)... with the same or less PQ? No.

2) Metro markets with HSI can do VOD or PPV if they dont want to drive anywhere. Or they can choose netflix. And if they dont mind leaving the yard... they can go to the local wal mart or Blockbuster and buy/rent a DVD or blu ray disc. At what point does rewriteable flashcards more convinient than these multitude of options that are already available.

And if you are in a rural area without access to HSI, there wont be a kiosk anyway.

3) So now these kiosks are manned? Nice. "Excuse me Starbucks bartender, when you are done with those 30 people in line, can you look at this kiosk?"
post #249 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post


3) So now these kiosks are manned? Nice.

So in some unknown time frame we'll have hi-def video kiosks manned by some poor schmoe. Basically, a Blockbuster video store in the size of one of those old-school Kodak film developing drop-off booths, ala "Back to the Future." I just need a 2012 DeLorean and aluminum foil suit. Whatever format gives me the best picture quality, I'll go with it. If that means SD flash cards, VOD, telepathic holograms beamed out from Bill Gates' mansion, etc., I'm game. In the meantime, I'll enjoy the "too late" aspect of watching "I, Robot" for other future takes on the fine city I live.

BTW, I live in what I like to think is a pretty trendy, upwardly mobile part of Chicago (Wicker Park). I have yet to see a DVD kiosk at the supermarkets, coffee shops, gas stations, etc. I frequent. If people with disposable incomes and/or tech-savvy kids in this area are not demanding kiosks, then there are a lot of infrastructure questions to be answered before I see one sporting HD content on every corner.
post #250 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

1) Well, I cant respond to everyone. And apparantly everyone has a "Different vision" of these Kiosks. Stick with the original story, and you see there are a lot of holes in the plot. Even in each of everyone vision of the future... there are numerous different holes.

2) You can purchase a movie on an SD card. I am not discounting that as a ROM format. But carrying it around all the time and downloading it and uploading it. The extra handling, constant transporting, constant rewriting puts the media at risk.

3) How far in the future are you thinking? A couple years for these kiosks if they were to become prevalent? The Phone&Cable company has deemed your are are not worthwhile as an investment for growth. WHY would a Download based Kiosk be placed here? They have to have a dedicated line, which will be more expensive than in major markets, where there will be more foot traffic.

4) I dont carry my DVDs in my pocket and have them written over time and time again. They are kept in a case, and usually on a shelf.

You're starting to lose me here bud. You wouldn't transport a memory card any more than you'd transport an optical disc. Why would a kiosk or rental store renting out flash card movies need some kind of "dedicated line"? They would get restocked just like any other rental store/dvd vending machine. And nobody said you have to keep your movies in your pocket.

I'm trying to figure out what you're arguing here... It seems we're going back and forth between you doing flash memory vs optical discs, and/or physical media vs downloads.

In answer to your question, here's the timeline I see:
now - 5 years: Blu-ray takes over, flash card readers begin to be seen on any new piece of CE involving a display (especially the TVs themselves).
6+ years: Readers are in place for the most part, media is now ultra cheap and begins to take over optical disc formats.

just my $0.02.
post #251 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by eganov View Post

Did you even bother to look at www.portomedia.com and the people involved with it?

2GB USB flash drives - means one rental at a time.

2 minute download times(about 4-5 minutes per user to choose there movie and such). Hmmm, sounds like longs would be a problem, if this became popular. Wouldnt renting from one of those "Old Fashioned" unmanned DVD kiosks be quicker?

$4.00 DVD quality rentals?(isnt netflix cheaper, and it doesnt require a new box)

Set top box dedicated to rentals(isnt netflix cheaper, and it doesnt require a new box)....

Yeah, IMO, that doesnt sound convinient enough to take down optical media. But if thats convinience for you.. go ahead and pick up one of those boxes when they are ready for sale in the states.
post #252 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

At what point does rewriteable flashcards more convinient than these multitude of options that are already available.

1. Go tell netflix that they can reduce their postage rates by 80% and let me know what they say.

2. Go tell walmart, bestbuy, blockbuster, etc that movies now take up 1/4th the space on their shelves, and cost 1/10th the amount to ship. Also let them know that the players they sell will be returned/damaged during shipping 80% less because they're more reliable due to not having any moving parts.
post #253 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by impala454 View Post

You're starting to lose me here bud. You wouldn't transport a memory card any more than you'd transport an optical disc. Why would a kiosk or rental store renting out flash card movies need some kind of "dedicated line"? They would get restocked just like any other rental store/dvd vending machine. And nobody said you have to keep your movies in your pocket.

I'm trying to figure out what you're arguing here... It seems we're going back and forth between you doing flash memory vs optical discs, and/or physical media vs downloads.

In answer to your question, here's the timeline I see:
now - 5 years: Blu-ray takes over, flash card readers begin to be seen on any new piece of CE involving a display (especially the TVs themselves).
6+ years: Readers are in place for the most part, media is now ultra cheap and begins to take over optical disc formats.

just my $0.02.

1) How are they going to get a Huge library of 25GB HD movies without a dedicated line. If it can only hold 30-40 movies, they already have DVD Kiosks at Shoppers food warehouse for that.

2) THe arguement is that its not more convinient that either Optical media or Downloads. Flash kiosks are just a compromise of convinience and baggage from both Optical media and Downloads.

3) Security. The players will have to be made with the intent of supporting rental flash media.
post #254 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

Set top box dedicated to rentals(isnt netflix cheaper, and it doesnt require a new box)....

yeah, just requires you to sit at your computer to watch the movie
post #255 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

1) How are they going to get a Huge library of 25GB HD movies without a dedicated line. If it can only hold 30-40 movies, they already have DVD Kiosks at Shoppers food warehouse for that.

The cards are about 1" square by 1mm... they could fit a hell of a lot more than 30-40 of them in a vending machine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

2) THe arguement is that its not more convinient that either Optical media or Downloads. Flash kiosks are just a compromise of convinience and baggage from both Optical media and Downloads.

3) Security. The players will have to be made with the intent of supporting rental flash media.

I don't understand why you keep differentiating optical media from flash memory. They have exactly the same possibilities, with the exception of one being much smaller and more reliable. Name me something that is currently done with optical media that cannot be done with flash memory instead. Or name me a downfall of flash media that does not apply to optical media, with a given that several years in the future flash memory will be even more dirt cheap than it is now.
post #256 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by impala454 View Post

1. Go tell netflix that they can reduce their postage rates by 80% and let me know what they say.

2. Go tell walmart, bestbuy, blockbuster, etc that movies now take up 1/4th the space on their shelves, and cost 1/10th the amount to ship. Also let them know that the players they sell will be returned/damaged during shipping 80% less because they're more reliable due to not having any moving parts.

1) VOD
2) Thats too true... Too TRUE! Great idea!!!! Now ask them why customers dont come in to buy movies and browse around the store on Tuesdays.... oh right because they went to the kioske at Baskin robins.
post #257 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by impala454 View Post

The cards are about 1" square by 1mm... they could fit a hell of a lot more than 30-40 of them in a vending machine...


I don't understand why you keep differentiating optical media from flash memory. They have exactly the same possibilities, with the exception of one being much smaller and more reliable. Name me something that is currently done with optical media that cannot be done with flash memory instead. Or name me a downfall of flash media that does not apply to optical media, with a given that several years in the future flash memory will be even more dirt cheap than it is now.

So its not rewriting these now? They are just rental ROM cards? Arent 25GB+ SD cards more expensive to produce than 25GB Discs?
post #258 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by impala454 View Post

yeah, just requires you to sit at your computer to watch the movie

thats why they have discs.

In any event, how much would netflix save anyway? They now have to pay for these Manned kiosks, and probably have to partner with a hardware manufacturer to produce dedicated boxes. That company will probably want a piece of netfixes overall revenue as well. Then they have to pay for local techs to service the machines and rental space in XYZ store(or give them a part of your revenue as well)
post #259 of 328
Dude you're not even making sense now... why on earth would netflix want VOD to take hold when 99% of their business is shipping physical media direct to the consumer? Newsflash: J6P does not have a computer hooked up to his TV.

Just let the word kiosk disappear from your vocabulary please. Do me a favor and look at it this way:

Go into best buy right now. Look at the shelf. Now envision every DVD/BD/etc case on that shelf shrink to the size of a matchbook. If you cannot see the economic possibilities in that, then I'm done w/this thread. Hell I'm probably done with it anyways. It's futile to argue with people who think we'll have a gagillion megabits to every home that watches movies next year.
post #260 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by husker1974 View Post

In the meantime, I'll enjoy the "too late" aspect of watching "I, Robot" for other future takes on the fine city I live..

No one is saying it is "too late" to enjoy "I Robot" and many other fine bluray offerings. What is being discussed is whether it is "too late" for bluray to supplant DVD in the same fashion that DVD supplanted video tape.

Quote:
Originally Posted by husker1974 View Post

BTW, I live in what I like to think is a pretty trendy, upwardly mobile part of Chicago (Wicker Park). I have yet to see a DVD kiosk at the supermarkets, coffee shops, gas stations, etc. I frequent. If people with disposable incomes and/or tech-savvy kids in this area are not demanding kiosks, then there are a lot of infrastructure questions to be answered before I see one sporting HD content on every corner.

Conversely...
I have yet to see a Bluray at the supermarkets, coffee shops, gas stations, etc. I frequent. If people with disposable incomes and/or tech-savvy kids in this area are not demanding Blueray, then there are a lot of infrastructure questions to be answered
post #261 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by impala454 View Post

Dude you're not even making sense now... why on earth would netflix want VOD to take hold when 99% of their business is shipping physical media direct to the consumer? Newsflash: J6P does not have a computer hooked up to his TV.

Just let the word kiosk disappear from your vocabulary please. Do me a favor and look at it this way:

Go into best buy right now. Look at the shelf. Now envision every DVD/BD/etc case on that shelf shrink to the size of a matchbook. If you cannot see the economic possibilities in that, then I'm done w/this thread. Hell I'm probably done with it anyways. It's futile to argue with people who think we'll have a gagillion megabits to every home that watches movies next year.

Wait. So are these meant for rentals or for sales in store? I thought you guys already huddled together and agreed that downloading in stores was a bad idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eganov View Post

If you would have read the original article, this threads links and thought about your responses it would have been obvious to you what the conversation is about.

It was explained that way by the THX dude, the link to portomedia said the same thing and most other posters have settled on rental as the viable alternative.


Are these downloads? or are they just a different form of ROM? How many times is the story going to change?

So whats your current Vision of Flash based downloading? Or is downloading totally off the books?
post #262 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

A card that limits you, that you have to carry with you and download/upload(depending on whose vision you are looking at)... with the same or less PQ? No.?"

A card is limiting because it is small and reuseable, and a disc isn't because it is big and not reuseable?



Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

3) So now these kiosks are manned? Nice. "Excuse me Starbucks bartender, when you are done with those 30 people in line, can you look at this kiosk?"

When I go to the camera store down the street from where I work, I walk in with my flash memory in my shirt pocket, insert it in the developing machine, choose which prints I want, print them out and print out a receipt, all while the clerks there go about their regular business. Then I say "Excuse me Mr. Camera sales guy, here is my money for the prints I made" He takes my money and I am out the door. Nice. And easy. Is this a manned kiosk?

Tqlla, do you live or work in a city bigger than Bug Tussle?
post #263 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

Are these downloads? or are they just a different form of ROM? How many times is the story going to change?

So whats your current Vision of Flash based downloading? Or is downloading totally off the books?

It's a quickly re-writable form of ROM, likely with DRM in place. The kiosk idea would be networked and need to download a master file onto it's internal storage once, then replicate to flash media with DRM in place. The DRM could be dynamic, depending on what you want to pay for. Pay for a lifetime copy, or have it expire after 72 hours from the write. there are so many possibilities, I'm surprised there isn't something more concrete in the works. All it really needs is a player, some standards, and DRM agreements with the studios. Maybe the problem is that there isn't as much profit in the idea for the developer because the actual medium isn't proprietary with inflated and fixed pricing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

3) So now these kiosks are manned? Nice. "Excuse me Starbucks bartender, when you are done with those 30 people in line, can you look at this kiosk?"

So I guess you haven't seen the new Ipod vending machines that have been in development?
post #264 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maltby View Post

Conversely...
I have yet to see a Bluray at the supermarkets, coffee shops, gas stations, etc. I frequent. If people with disposable incomes and/or tech-savvy kids in this area are not demanding Blueray, then there are a lot of infrastructure questions to be answered

I'm not arguing whether a flash-based rom will one day replace optical. It likely will, if its shown to be cheaper to mass produce, "press" and distribute. But your statement makes no sense. No demand for blu-ray rental/purchases does not result in demand for flash-based rom rental/purchases. My argument in terms of the model that is reliant on kiosks, booths, etc., needs more infrastructure and people changing their ideas on rental of movies then either (a) the current rental model or (b) going into blockbuster, best buy, wal-mart and buying something. Especially if its a model that requires someone stepping up to a kiosk and wanting a movie from 1955. Yes, the potential catalog is much larger for a model built on pulling content from a central server. But the kiosk at that point will have to call upon high-speed connections to do it. Which is sorely lacking at the moment. Right now, its physically shipping a square "disk" vs. a shiny circle.

I think its great that people are looking forward to these new modes of delivery, but there has to be more than just "X company has this kiosk." People are referencing flash-media kiosks and iPod vending machines. I'm not obstinate enough to say that those won't get popular. But my personal experience is that if a well-off part of town in a major American city isn't jumping all over it, well how will J6P in Podunkville see it in 3 years?
post #265 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by husker1974 View Post

No demand for blu-ray rental/purchases does not result in demand for flash-based rom rental/purchases. ?

I'm not saying it does. I'm saying that before bluray really takes off, something else will have come along to steal it's thunder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by husker1974 View Post

Especially if its a model that requires someone stepping up to a kiosk and wanting a movie from 1955. Yes, the potential catalog is much larger for a model built on pulling content from a central server. But the kiosk at that point will have to call upon high-speed connections to do it.

You order that 1955 movie online at your office and walk over to pick it up at lunch.


Quote:
Originally Posted by husker1974 View Post

But my personal experience is that if a major American city in a well-off part of town isn't jumping all over it, well how will J6P in Podunkville see it in 3 years?

I am in Seattle. I can assure you that Seattle isn't jumping all over bluray. But everybody is jumping all over Ipods and the like.
post #266 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

It's a quickly re-writable form of ROM, likely with DRM in place. The kiosk idea would be networked and need to download a master file onto it's internal storage once, then replicate to flash media with DRM in place. The DRM could be dynamic, depending on what you want to pay for. Pay for a lifetime copy, or have it expire after 72 hours from the write. there are so many possibilities, I'm surprised there isn't something more concrete in the works. All it really needs is a player, some standards, and DRM agreements with the studios. Maybe the problem is that there isn't as much profit in the idea for the developer because the actual medium isn't proprietary with inflated and fixed pricing.

So I guess you haven't seen the new Ipod vending machines that have been in development?

The easy fix is to make the card proprietary.
post #267 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maltby View Post

A card is limiting because it is small and reuseable, and a disc isn't because it is big and not reuseable?




When I go to the camera store down the street from where I work, I walk in with my flash memory in my shirt pocket, insert it in the developing machine, choose which prints I want, print them out and print out a receipt, all while the clerks there go about their regular business. Then I say "Excuse me Mr. Camera sales guy, here is my money for the prints I made" He takes my money and I am out the door. Nice. And easy. Is this a manned kiosk?

Tqlla, do you live or work in a city bigger than Bug Tussle?

Yeah... I dont know how to tell you this.... Thats a Photo shop dedicated to selling cameras and developing film. Thats a little different than the corner 7-11 or Starbucks. If an automated photo printing machine failed at 7-11, do you think they could fix it for you?

Supposidly thats a big advantage of these Kiosks. They can be everywhere... so you dont have to go to stores with areas dedicated to movies. (such as best buy, Blockbuster, wal mart)

Now in your "Vision" a tech is going to have to be there to monitor the kiosks at Starbucks? Or is your vision back at best buy/wal mart/ blockbuster?
post #268 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maltby View Post

I'm not saying it does. I'm saying that before bluray really takes off, something else will have come along to steal it's thunder.

You order that 1955 movie online at your office and walk over to pick it up at lunch.

I am in Seattle. I can assure you that Seattle isn't jumping all over bluray. But everybody is jumping all over Ipods and the like.

So exactly where are these kiosks? And is each kiosk going to have an operator to help you when your download failed or you receive a bad card?

How well are these techs trained? Are they cheap labor? And since these kiosks dont need high speed internet access... are studios going to be okay with a machine that has a large library of movies in the box, that can write copies of those movies?

Seattle not jumping over blu ray huh? Have you been to the local best buy to see if they are able to keep the more popular players in stock. Like the S300 and the Panasonic DMP-BD30K.

I was just at a store Wednesday in fairlakes Virginia, where they had 4 Sony S300s arrive that day. The guy there said it would sell out by the end of the day. Checked online right now... sold out.

Since people in Seattle are not clamoring for blu ray, surely stores must be overstocked with them. Lets check for the DMP-BD30K
unavailable Bellevue WA 457 120th Ave NE, Bellevue, WA
unavailable Lynnwood WA 19225 Alderwood Mall Pkwy, Lynnwood, WA
unavailable Tukwila WA 17364 Southcenter Pkwy, Tukwila, WA
unavailable Silverdale WA 9551 Ridgetop Blvd Nw, Silverdale, WA
unavailable Everett WA 1130 Se Everett Mall Way, Everett, WA

Hmmm, weird well surely sony players are readily available. Sony BDP-S300
unavailable Bellevue WA 457 120th Ave NE, Bellevue, WA
unavailable Lynnwood WA 19225 Alderwood Mall Pkwy, Lynnwood, WA
unavailable Tukwila WA 17364 Southcenter Pkwy, Tukwila, WA
unavailable Silverdale WA 9551 Ridgetop Blvd Nw, Silverdale, WA
unavailable Everett WA 1130 Se Everett Mall Way, Everett, WA
unavailable Seattle-northgate WA 330 NE Northgate Way, Seattle, WA

Well lets see how Circuit City looks for the S300.
Bellevue Crossroads Out of stock Notify me when available
South Center pick up at this store
Lynnwood Out of stock Notify me when available
Silverdale Out of stock Notify me when available
Everett Mall Out of stock Notify me when available
Tacoma Mall Out of stock Notify me when available
Puyallup pick up at this store
Olympia Out of stock Notify me when available
Bellingham Out of stock Notify me when available

Maybe you need to learn more about your fellow seattolians.
post #269 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

I was just at a store Wednesday in fairlakes Virginia, where they had 4 Sony S300s arrive that day. The guy there said it would sell out by the end of the day. Checked online right now... sold out.

OK at that rate thats 1200 per year in fairlakes virginia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post

Since people in Seattle are not clamoring for blu ray, surely stores must be overstocked with them. Lets check for the DMP-BD30K



Contradiction please. If no stock sent to Seattle then none available perhaps

Quote:
Originally Posted by tqlla View Post


unavailable Bellevue WA 457 120th Ave NE, Bellevue, WA
unavailable Lynnwood WA 19225 Alderwood Mall Pkwy, Lynnwood, WA
unavailable Tukwila WA 17364 Southcenter Pkwy, Tukwila, WA
unavailable Silverdale WA 9551 Ridgetop Blvd Nw, Silverdale, WA
unavailable Everett WA 1130 Se Everett Mall Way, Everett, WA

Hmmm, weird well surely sony players are readily available. Sony BDP-S300
unavailable Bellevue WA 457 120th Ave NE, Bellevue, WA
unavailable Lynnwood WA 19225 Alderwood Mall Pkwy, Lynnwood, WA
unavailable Tukwila WA 17364 Southcenter Pkwy, Tukwila, WA
unavailable Silverdale WA 9551 Ridgetop Blvd Nw, Silverdale, WA
unavailable Everett WA 1130 Se Everett Mall Way, Everett, WA
unavailable Seattle-northgate WA 330 NE Northgate Way, Seattle, WA

Well lets see how Circuit City looks for the S300.
Bellevue Crossroads Out of stock Notify me when available
South Center pick up at this store
Lynnwood Out of stock Notify me when available
Silverdale Out of stock Notify me when available
Everett Mall Out of stock Notify me when available
Tacoma Mall Out of stock Notify me when available
Puyallup pick up at this store
Olympia Out of stock Notify me when available
Bellingham Out of stock Notify me when available

Maybe you need to learn more about your fellow seattolians.

Long time acquaintance with Seattlites. Maybe you need to learn that Bellingham, Olympia, Puyallup,Tacoma, Everett, Silverdale, Lynnwood and belleuve are not in Seattle.
post #270 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

The technology and format is there, it just needs to be standardized and developed. Ideas are the root to any great force to make an impact in human living. I'm sure in the 70's the thought of a Microwave was a giant pipe dream but today they are in more homes than television sets. I agree, it is a few years off, but I don't see any urgency on Blu-Ray's part to attempt to take hold of mainstream american consumers other than the PS3 and the BDA telling people that George Bush Jr. wants you to spend your economy stimulas check on a Blu-Ray player.

The BDA needs to get the studios to support the idea of Blu-Ray being the next dominant format and to add incentives including making it affordable and priced competitively to SD-DVD. Am I asking them to subsidize it's adoption? You are darn right I am. They seemed to subsidize plenty in the battle with HD-DVD. Now that that competition is gone I think they are crazy to think people are going to run out and buy $400 Blu-Ray players and $30 discs for their 27" - 50" 720p televisions when the average consumer is hard pressed to tell a difference between 448kbps and 640kbps audio and 1080p downscaled to 720p and 480p upscaled on a decent budget upconverting SD-DVD player. All the while saving themselves from replacing their huge libraries that have amassed over the years. Blu-Ray is like a sports team with a small window of opportunity to win the big game. I don't see them making the moves to win it. The longer they wait, the more likely someone will come along and develop some of these "pipe dreams" and the increased benefits they have over a prssed physical disc.

Sure, it's just random discussion of undeveloped ideas at this point. But the amout of dismissal of those ideas in this thread is crazy. What I am seeing here is the same closed minded mentality that would have said that minidisc would be the next big audio format and digital music downloads would never have a chance. This is the same closed minded thinking that instead of a company like Sony partnering with Napster (in it's heyday) and taking advantage of the huge following they had acquired, worked to destroy it thus handing money and marketshare over to companies like Apple that doesn't think such pipe dreams aren't woth following and taking advantage of.

Maybe the thread title should be changed from "It's too late for Bluray" to "It's really too early for anything else."
Shiny round discs rule for cost and convenience...simple. This applies to BD as well as sd dvd.
BD will be gobbled up by those who want the best in video quality, all others will buy sd dvd or dvr and say it looks close to BD.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › Video Download Services & Hardware › THX Chief Scientist: ...it's too late for Blu-ray