Low-Power Broadcasters Sue Over Analog Blockage in Converter Box Program

Use a splitter, for cryin' out loud.

Instead of lawyers and court costs, they should be spending (or at least saving) the money for the switchover.

What the heck good is a lawsuit going to do at this stage? They should have thought of that back when the makers were designing the boxes.

Heck, we, the viewers did. Are they that dumb?

Last time I checked you could get 4 splitters for a $1 at the dollar store! Damm analog LP air wave polluters! The DXers should sue them! One of the local LPs here has been running nothing more than an outdated EAS scroll for the last 10 months on a continous loop with a dvd player backround,
Stupid Spectrum Squaters!

Hold on there,satpro.The only visual beacons left for DX will be the LP's and the prop maps.As far as the integration problem,they could throw in an extra piece of coax and a splitter.Less than a dollar probably.

A splitter doesn't do any good when the TV only has RF in. Yes, they still exist.


They did. Reread the story. They asked the FCC to inforce the law and their rules as written.

The boxes don't need an analog tuner, all it really needs is the ability to bypass the antenna to the RF out connector, just like pretty much every VHS VCR out there. Remember the TV/Video button?

While I agree that the lawsuit is silly, I do think that their case is valid. I don't remember a VCR that doesn't offer pass through feature. DTV converter boxes needs to be built so that when it's off, it doesn't pollute the RF out. Many boxes, including the Samsung tuner, lacks this capability.

Something like the TV/VCR toggle switch on the VCR would be even better. Too bad the 90 day coupon limit would only allow me to buy 1st generation buggy converter boxes.

But, aren't they requiring spectrum analyzers in the CECB's ?

Seriously though, w/o a spectrum analyzer, except for the analog LP's, and when it happens, canadian Tropo(such as cico-TV32 occasionally seen here) + Es, and Es from Mexico and Cuba, I'm not sure how exactly I'll "know" a lot about how well the antenna is really working after 2/17/09 ....


It does if you use a A/B switch as well ... For example, Those using the RF modulator out to hook up the converter box to an analog TV with only 1 RF input could use 1). the A/B switch, hooking the RF out from DTV converter up to "a" or "b" on the switch(the "a" or "b" used as input on the A/B switch, the "output" from A/B switch going to RF in on the TV) and 2). a 2 way splitter for the antenna feed, with the antenna hooked to the converter box via one output from the splitter, and the antenna hooked up to the "a" or "b" port on the A/B switch with the output from A/B switch hooked to their TV ...

A 2 way splitter and A/B switch will probably (retail) cost the user as much as one of the CECB's with the coupon, though, LOL ... and of course, there's going to be about 4~5db loss (3db for the signal, insertion loss for the splitter itself will vary) from the splitter, should be at most only about .5db insertion loss for the A/B switch ....

Basically the CBA lawsuit has no real merit since after digital conversion there is nothing stoping any viewer who wants to still watch a fuzzy analog LP from directly and for free by-passing the cecb anytime they want their fix of dead air, blue screens, black screens, outdated eas messages running on a loop, or home shopping channels. just plug the antenna directly into your TV. If you ask me this looks suspiciously like a way for the cba stations (aka LP home shopping repeaters) to get some free money to go digital themselves.

I just found the cba's official site(s)

communitybroadcasters.com
dtvnow.org

Prominently featured in the center of the page is one member of the CBA, starts with H. ends with N. and has an S. in the middle. Makes you wonder why they don't market their own cecb themselves that has all the features they need.

I guess we now know why the lawyers are involved and it isn't for the poor disenfranchised analog LP viewers.

More special interests looking for a handout from DC, instead of their own money to upgrade.

The Samsung DTB-H260F has RF pass-thru even when the box is off, although it's slightly amplified when it's on. I know - I have one.

NAB has launched a new website called http://www.lptvanswers.com to combat this issue. About 1/3 way down they say the following:


IMHO, that pretty much sums it up.

Also see:
https://dtv2009.gov/lowpower/

I can see their point, although they seem to have waited a long time before bringing it up.

I think they're after government subsidies.

51 out of 57 boxes block the signal from those stations. As far as I know, only one of the analog boxes is available locally, and not with a coupon. I can see why they are angry.

I wondered why they waited until December. OTOH, the NTIA didn't think about it, either. Until 2/17/09, most of us have a mix of analog/digital signals. After 2/17/09, LP stations are not an issue if all signals in remote areas are analog, but at some point there will be the same transitional mix to deal with. This affects a huge chunk of real estate, especially in the West. Adding switches somewhat defeats the intent of mandatory remote controls.

I have no sympathy for these LPTV stations. The broadcasters asked for DTV and they got it. They've have had a decade to adapt to this change. Adapt or die.

Adapt how? The FCC wasn't even allowing LP stations to apply for digital channels until just recently.

The "transition" should be interesting in the Palm Springs area. While it is often though of as "remote," the Coachella/Palm Springs valley has over 600,000 people. There are 25 LP/TX/CA stations serving the area, including CBS (KPSP-LP). There are only 2 Full Power stations to transition (KESQ & KMIR).

If consumers are buying the usual boxes there and using RF pass-through, it's not going to work very well... dropping all but 3 channels (2 above + KVMD, which is outside the valley).

But then, everyone has cable, right?

$$$$ BINGO $$$$

http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/art....jsp?id=343429
2,600 low-power television stations
+ about 4,300 translator stations
======================
6,900 stations wanting government money

I hope this does not screw up the analog shut down....


Bob Diaz

The problem is NOT that the program boxes should NOT have analog feed through. Good Engineering Practice dictates that they should. That was a stupid move not too. A small relay on the antenna feed line tied to the On/Off switch solves that problem. But the fact that this issue was raised a good 18 months AFTER the specs for the program boxes were APPROVED and 4 months AFTER the boxes started showing up on retailers shelves makes it moot in many peoples minds (CBA needs new lawyers to let this slip by).

While it is true Class A, LPTV and translators have only had about 18 months to convert, a number of those class stations either have or are trying to convert as we speak. Others haven't even applied yet (Whose fault is that?). While it is true many of those stations do not have the money that their full power cousins do, they have known the day was coming and should have been preparing for it. They, along with the full power stations, have had 10 years to prepare. "We don't have the money" just doesn't fly anymore not even with the full power stations. It shows poor business judgment on the owners part. This transition has dragged out long enough. IMHO, I don't see this issue derailing it. It appears even NAB is only giving this issue lip service to appease the LPTV members.

Perhaps the LPTV stations should go after the WUD/WSD coalition instead. It seems to me that the coalition is ignoring the presence of LPTV altogether when submitting their appeals to the FCC to open up the spectrum to them.

The other problem with LPTV is some of them may try to use the wide open spaces in 2-6 only to find that 0.3kW doesn't work too well in that area. What can effectively use 2-6 in the digital world other than packet-based systems?

If LPTV must be watched, don't use the box. It's not like NTSC tuners are being ripped out of TV's here.

The digital transmission standard was approved 11 1/2 years ago. The stations here in Los angeles have been transmitting digitally for 9 1/2 years. The low power stations need to get with the program. Their business IS television and they should know what is happening.

We all spend many $1000 whenever we buy a car to reduce polution and conserve natural resources. The same goes for TV specrtum. Saving spectrum costs money but you just got to do it.

Get with the program.

Just my $.02.

Rick R

People who know about the transition shouldn't have any trouble figuring out how to get analog signals. But there are many who will pick up the first CECB box they see and plug it in. They will assume their low power stations aren't strong enough to be picked up, they won't know about the distinction between analog vs. digital at all, because many ads keep saying "every channel" will broadcast digital as of 2/17/09. Perhaps the LP lawsuit will call attention to those many summaries that oversimplify.

The low power & translator stations should get together and pool their money.

A single DTV transmitter can carry several SD channels.

Another solution is to rent bandwidth as a sub-channel on one of existing channels.


Bob Diaz

Psssh. I can't get the 2 low power stations that are only 4 miles from me. The TV doesn't detect any sort of signal being broadcast on their channels. Most people will not be affected by the lack of pass through. Pass through adds cost with no benefit for most people. Thankfully the government wasn't dumb enough to require pass through or NTSC tuners.

So your saying that old wives' tale is true then, that living near a TV transmission tower can give you cancer?

Low Power stations cover a very wide range of power levels from a few Watts to kiloWatts. The antenna coverage varies from omni to very directional to cover only a valley or part of a city. You may not be in the coverage area of those 2 LP stations or don't have a good antenna setup to get them. if you want to find out the details on the LP stations, start with http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html.

Just because you can't get those 2 LP stations, that does not make them useless to everybody. There are a number of rural or smaller markets where Fox or CW are only available on LP stations or even the traditional one-time big 3 networks. Not all LPs are religious or niche stations, although those are watched by people as well.

It not as crazy as it seems, here is a listing of some of the shared stations I receive in the LA area:

44-1 KXLA (Korean)
44-2 KVMD (Some Sports)

57-1 KJLA
57-2 KXLA (Korean, see 44-1)
57-3 KVMD (Same as 44-2)
57-4 LATV (Music and Entertainment)

So in some cases, it is possible, but it's all a mater of what the small stations are willing to do...


Bob Diaz