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Best Pan's Labyrinth release? - Page 5

post #121 of 157
Its simple to calculate the delay needed for perfect sync.

1. Extract audio from both releases with eac3to to wavs
2. Took center channels wavs, import them to some audio editor (ex WaveLab), put both on separate track and align waveforms
3. Note down the difference in ms, then remux it back with eac3to and delay parameter applied with specific ms value
post #122 of 157
Not a bad idea. Thanks JonTa.

Anyone know where I can purchase the Nordic version?
post #123 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonTa View Post

Its simple to calculate the delay needed for perfect sync.

Only if both versions have identical frames: if extra frames are inserted here or there, audio will go off-sync and can't be adjusted by simply delaying the start.

Probably better to wait and see whether the UK SE has all the goods. The Del Toro collection is a little expensive just for Pan's Labyrinth.

Audio pitch issues have been the bane of PAL DVD for a long time: often a PAL release will simply speed up the 24fps source to give 25fps, resulting in audio sounding higher pitched unless the studios specially resample it to compensate. Those in PAL land probably don't notice the issue as much since it is 2nd nature: just like 3:2 pulldown judder is probably not noticed by most Americans, since they are used to it, until they have something else to compare it to. Some Bluray titles were produced with the pitch issue, presumably because they simply re-used a PAL DVD master that already had the speedup baked into the audio and they didn't bother to compensate.
post #124 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spizz View Post

There is also the just released SE in England which is supposed to be the best.

Isn't the SE the same transfer as the original Uk version thats been around for awhile?
post #125 of 157
I don't know if it was mentioned somewhere, maybe I missed it, but I finally picked up the UK Special Edition as it's pretty cheap now, and the main 5.1 track suffers from pitch problems. I think they used a pitch-corrected 25fps track and stretched it out. What's worse is the audio track also suffers from a certain wavering/artifactedness, as if from dropped/repeated samples, noticeable during long, continuous sounds, like some string sections of the score. No doubt a side-effect of all the resampling.

Thankfully the LPCM 2.0 track is fine, and I only have a stereo headphones anyway, although the bass is weaker.

It does make you wonder though, if Optimum perhaps knew about the pitch problem and that's the reason they also included the LPCM 2.0 track (seems kind of odd otherwise on such a recent film.) I believe the disc is exactly the same as their release of The Deer Hunter in that respect, where the 5.1 track has pitch issues, but the LPCM 2.0 track does not.
post #126 of 157
post #127 of 157
It doesn't have the 7.1 track according to the 3-star review, just the 5.1 track. It's also possible English subs won't be included since this is from a Japanese label and not a Western one.
post #128 of 157
Wouldn't count on English subs here, I don't think this distributor (Amuse Soft) ever includes them.
post #129 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd213 View Post

It doesn't have the 7.1 track according to the 3-star review, just the 5.1 track. It's also possible English subs won't be included since this is from a Japanese label and not a Western one.

You realize the reviews are for the DVD, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Average View Post

Wouldn't count on English subs here, I don't think this distributor (Amuse Soft) ever includes them.

Clearly they do:

http://www.yesasia.com/us/dragon-head-japan-version-english-subtitles/1003028544-0-0-0-en/info.html

http://www.yesasia.com/global/1004055163-0-0-0-en/info.html

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Cyborg-She-Blu-ray/39438/

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Love-Exposure-Blu-ray/42500/
Edited by DigitalfreakNYC - 2/26/13 at 4:55pm
post #130 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalfreakNYC View Post

You realize the reviews are for the DVD, right?

Wrong. The 3-star review with a date of 2013/2/25 that I was referring to clearly says "BD" and "DTS-HD Master Audio".
post #131 of 157
Here's the listing on the Amuse website: http://www.amuse-s-e.co.jp/movie/release/i.php?__z=2.9.9&_ACTION[search_detail]=1&cont_id=3150

Subtitles don't appear to be finalized since nothing is listed, not even Japanese subtitles.

But another recent release from them, the French film Untouchable, doesn't contain English subtitles:
http://www.amuse-s-e.co.jp/movie/release/i.php?__z=2.7.7&_ACTION[search_detail]=1&cont_id=3131

So they may include English subs for some Japanese films, but European ones might be a different story.
post #132 of 157
Amuse doesn't list subtitle specs for anything on their site. You have to check Amazon or elsewhere for that info. And as far as I can tell none of their foreign-language titles (which is what I was referring to, sorry for not making it clear) have English subs, not even the English-language films. I mean, there may have been something on DVD ages ago, but not on Blu.

The specs on their website (which I can't access from your link, I guess they block deep linking) don't mention the 7.1 track, so it's a safe bet it's not there. The 7.1 mix was commissioned by New Line and AFAIK it's only shown up on the U.S. disc and the Korean disc ported from it.
Edited by Dan Average - 2/26/13 at 6:57pm
post #133 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Average View Post

Amuse doesn't list subtitle specs for anything on their site. You have to check Amazon or elsewhere for that info. And as far as I can tell none of their foreign-language titles (which is what I was referring to, sorry for not making it clear) have English subs, not even the English-language films. I mean, there may have been something on DVD ages ago, but not on Blu.

The specs on their website (which I can't access from your link, I guess they block deep linking) don't list a 7.1 track so it's a safe bet it's not there.

Gah, I hate that. Here's the specs:

本編:119分
ディスク:Blu-ray・二層
色彩:カラー
画面サイズ:16:9LB(アメリカンビスタ)
サブタイトル:
音声: 1.スペイン語(オリジナル)、5.1ch、DTS-HD MASTER AUDIO/ 2.日本語(吹替)、2.0chステレオ、リニアPCM(音声非圧縮)/


It also says it doesn't have any extras.

As for subtitle specs, they do list them for other titles. They're there for the "Untouchable" BD I mentioned: サブタイトル: 1.日本語字幕 2.日本語字幕 3.吹替版用字幕 4.コメンタリー用字幕 5.日本語音声字幕
post #134 of 157
You're right, I wasn't looking closely.

You can't search specs on their site, but you can sort of do it on Amazon (google "字幕 * 英語" "アミューズソフトエンタテインメント" site:amazon.co.jp). It brings up a bunch of Japanese films and some English-language films released on DVD years ago. Nothing that gets my hopes up for English subs on a Spanish-language Blu-ray, but with three months to go and no definitive answer on their website, I guess it shouldn't be ruled out.
post #135 of 157
So this is what you guys are looking for?
Code:
DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     Pan's Labyrinth
Disc Size:      45,667,525,216 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BD-Java:        No
BDInfo:         0.5.8

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00007.MPLS
Length:                 1:58:55.503 (h:m:s.ms)
Size:                   35,204,896,704 bytes
Total Bitrate:          39.47 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-4 AVC Video        31938 kbps          1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / High Profile 4.1

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
DTS-HD Master Audio             Spanish         5254 kbps       7.1 / 48 kHz / 5254 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS Audio                       English         255 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 255 kbps / 24-bit

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description     
-----                           --------        -------         -----------     
Presentation Graphics           English         22.704 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           English         25.281 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         24.595 kbps
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
This is basicly the US blu-ray, but the videostream is replaced with the one from the NOR blu-ray. Because the US blu-ray videostream had an additional logo at the beginning, a negative delay of 17400ms had to be applied to get subs and audio in sync. Because of this the first 1.5 sentence from the commentary is gone, but it all works flawless. Another thing you have to give up when combining the two sources is the video commentary because of a lack of space. The video commentary is not part of the main movie like most PiP's, but is an additional movie file with the video commentary hardcoded on it, which means that besides the main movie there is another video file of 16 GB.
post #136 of 157
Ya nordic is the way to go for PQ on this but not sure about sound, some says US have high frequencies muted and UK SE is better. Also the 7.1 is a upmix, not original.
post #137 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesslan1 View Post

Ya nordic is the way to go for PQ on this but not sure about sound, some says US have high frequencies muted and UK SE is better. Also the 7.1 is a upmix, not original.

I don't think the US has high freqs muted, i've looked at the sound waves with audacity and it showed very dynamic waves for the US audio. The NOR audio on the other hand was very limited to the middle, with no peaks on low and high frequencies. I find it very difficult to judge on the sound, since I don't have the UK blu-ray I couldn't try that one out either. Here are some new NOR vs US blu-ray comparison pictures if anyone's interested:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
post #138 of 157
The pitch problem on the UK SE renders any audio quality comparisons with that release pretty pointless IMO.
post #139 of 157
I own the uk and u.s. and I am unsure what you mean by pitch problems, as far as I know from the audiophiles the uk was said to have the best audio. Your the only person reporting this, and I am not quite sure what you mean? Parts in the movie get to loud or to quiet?
Edited by Murilo - 3/25/13 at 4:06am
post #140 of 157
It means that they took a soundtrack running at PAL speeds,(with 4% speedup), and time stretched it, to match the 24fps picture.

I've no idea if they attempted to pitch correct it afterwards, but even that can go wrong, as evidenced by Pathe's UK Memento disc.
post #141 of 157
And youi can prove or show this or can confirm this is the case with the uk?

The nordic was said to be time stretched but I have never heard that for the uk version.,
post #142 of 157
You can compare the DTS-HD MA 5.1 track and the LPCM 2.0 track on the UK special edition to the soundtrack CD. The latter two sound the same, the 5.1 track is in a different pitch and to my ears sounded slightly unstable/wavering.
post #143 of 157
The NORDIC transfer has the best PQ for a good % of the film. It however has 5 glitched frames around the 41minute mark. It also has sever blocking on the beginning. If I was going for a BD too own. I would get the UK 2nd print. It is free of these errors and the PQ is not that much worse.
post #144 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dion250 View Post

The NORDIC transfer has the best PQ for a good % of the film. It however has 5 glitched frames around the 41minute mark. It also has sever blocking on the beginning. If I was going for a BD too own. I would get the UK 2nd print. It is free of these errors and the PQ is not that much worse.

Nah UK disc has even better PQ than Nordic now that we have better comparison screens.

Nordic http://www.imagebam.com/image/d42e4c245792179
UK http://www.imagebam.com/image/8fe015245792405

Nordic http://www.imagebam.com/image/fb7f8b245792270
UK http://www.imagebam.com/image/468eae245792593
post #145 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesslan1 View Post

Nah UK disc has even better PQ than Nordic now that we have better comparison screens.

Nordic http://www.imagebam.com/image/d42e4c245792179
UK http://www.imagebam.com/image/8fe015245792405

Nordic http://www.imagebam.com/image/fb7f8b245792270
UK http://www.imagebam.com/image/468eae245792593

Those are cherry picked ss's to make the UK BD look better.

The Nordic BD looks better on a MUCH bigger % of frames.

acshOOoX.jpgabzE4xVS.jpg
adiBNS5x.jpgadd8JPfg.jpg
acmGET6s.jpgacrf48u7.jpg
adyh3b1X.jpgabuQeScK.jpg
ackkpymi.jpgacmSpcpb.jpg
aceNMQIh.jpgadqa0i8U.jpg
acnnHWqH.jpgadyu5ZhO.jpg
abfiTbqw.jpgacdVqNZk.jpg
acdiQMT5.jpgacnFcbhT.jpg

But like I said. The UK BD is still the one to own cause of no corrupt frames.

edit: Also you don't post comparisons of I frames. They make up like 5% of the encode and they usually have the best PQ. That UK image is an I frame.

admZF15d.jpg

Corrupt frame on NORDIC +4 more.
acg9Fkjk.jpg
Edited by Dion250 - 3/31/13 at 4:59am
post #146 of 157
Ah I see, interesting. What audio what you say is best then since many seems still to debate if the UK soundtrack have pitchissues or not? What seems clear is that the Nordic has pitch problems.

ES
DTS-HD MA 7.1 - The original audio track has a constant bit depth of 24 bits.

NOR
DTS-HD MA 5.1 - The original audio track has a constant bit depth of 24 bits.

UK AC3
AC3 5.1 - Clipping detected

UK special ed
DTS-HD MA 5.1 - The original audio track has a constant bit depth of 16 bits.

US
DTS-HD MA 7.1 - The original audio track has a constant bit depth of 24 bits.
post #147 of 157
Don't think there is anything wrong with the US, UK or ESP audios.
post #148 of 157
Has anyone looked into the Australian BD and ascertained its source?
post #149 of 157
Has anyone watched the 2013 US release? On Amazon there is one version which says it released in June, 2013 and on walmart's site it says July, 2013. But the picture shown on the walmart one looks like the original release and the Amazon one claims it's in English, which obviously isn't true.

I am so sick of all of these movies having a ton of releases and I am NOT going to import anything. So did New Line just re-release the same transfer again this year? I justw atched what was probably the original U.S. release and to me it still looked great, but I of course haven't watched another version. The audio sounded great. I may just have to buy the $8 wal mart one and figure for $8 you can't expect perfection. Besides, most people who complain about releases "not being as the director intended" post about tons of other products where they set something different than "as intended".

The original UK release supposedly has better PQ, but lossy audio. The original US has lossless audio, but the DNR. The UK special edition has pitch issues and is region B locked. There are so many versions listed on Amazon, it gives me a headache even trying to figure out what to do. Any movie I buy has a ton of Blu-ray releases, it seems. They need to just make it right the first time and stop making other versions.

edit: the 2013 one apparently couldn't simply be a repackaging of the original new line one because some specs claim it ahs 5.1 audio instead of 7.1 Sigh. DOn't know what to do now, but I don't want worse audio.

Also, what about the Canadian steelbook version?
Edited by somelogin - 12/8/13 at 4:03am
post #150 of 157
According to this person, the upcoming Zavvi exclusive (UK) SteelBook will have the audio pitch issues corrected. It should be in people's hands in a few days (release pushed from December 9 to December 12 for some reason), and then we'll know for sure. Because it's a StudioCanal release, it'll probably be Region B locked though.
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