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Artec T3A Pro NTIA CECB - Page 8

post #211 of 402
I'm thinking these LL's are just missing the cable and buttons for ch/vol.

A guy could very easily mount buttons in the case, cheaply too...

Some times I sit on the foot stool and flip channels on my sat STB. Remote is half a room away. Buttons would be nice...
post #212 of 402
We NEED to see the inside of a Pro.
post #213 of 402
The 7 pin cable connector's definitely for the "Pro's" buttons. Here's a pict of my T3AP Pro. (w/Sanyo tuner.)

post #214 of 402
Now that is what I call fast service!
Looks like we have a useful mod here!
post #215 of 402
NTSC, Satpro posted this pic of a Pro in post #61 (5-06-08)(Old box)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...7&d=1210111029

Look at the power connector and the RCA jack block. No space between them.

Look at yours, looks like S-video maybe?

Neither have the reset switch, I guess we'll call it that.

I'll bet channel buttons can be made to work.
post #216 of 402
Some fancy buttons for ron350 to fill up holes with!!!!

http://www.apem.com/pushbutton.html
post #217 of 402
And here's the switch side of the board. Wire tracing doesn’t look too difficult. There's a couple of surface mount components to contend with, one resistor (which is probably just a 0 ohm jumper), and two SMCs marked CB1 and CB2. Perhaps capacitors.

That space may be for an S-video jack, I'm not sure. I'd have open it back up to look. Fact is, I only had it open for a few minutes and I didn't notice those open pads until I looked at my pictures. LOL

I WILL open it back up though. (I'll try to find time tonight, if not, then tomorrow.)

post #218 of 402
We sure appreciate your help NTSC!

We don't have to have buttons, but if we can, we want to just because we can....

Yeah...we're a little mental..

Also, if you look at these newer LL's, there is a space there but it is not pads like yours. The old 08 box had no space!
post #219 of 402
NTSC thanks for the pictures.

That circuit board is a good bit different from my T3AP-LL and LS boxes that have the 7 pin white plug on the board.

How is the picture quality on your PRO box?
post #220 of 402
Ok, this 3 pin data port. I read a post somewhere that says one of the pins is +5 volt. If it was USB it would need:

+5 Volts
- Data
+ Data
- Ground

4 pins. The Zinwell has a 4 pin port inside it (one is +5 volt).
You can see the Zinwell board labeled RS-232, tx/rx/gnd/5v next to the tuner.
If they are TTL level then you need a TTL to RS-232 converter.

http://www.virtualvillage.com/1000m-...L%20Converter#

With 3 pins the 5 volts could power the converter board (not the box), but then you just have Tx/Rx and no ground or anything...

Any ideas what these 3 pins are?
LL
post #221 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee495 View Post

Thank you! I believe my problem may be the station. .....I just can't figure out why the Zinwell gets 12.2 and both Artecs do not...they did get it just fine. I'm thinki9ng about calling the station and ask them if they are doing something. I just need to know if it is the Box (The zinwell working worries me). Any help would be appreciated!

its probably not your box....i had a somwhat similar problem a few months ago....for several days my local pbs station had audio but no video on my ARTEC but it was ok on my TR40 aka DTVPal....i re-scanned all channels, same problem....i even did a FACTORY DEFAULT on the ARTEC and re-did everything, same problem with that one station....

and others in my area reported just the opposite for the same station during that time period ....they had video but no audio....very weird, i know....

a few days later it was fixed and has been ok ever since then....all this digital stuff is still being de-bugged at the stations, i think....
post #222 of 402
pm3839,

Yes, mine did the exact same thing.

It was the station. No video & no sound, showing no signal, but it was strong on the meter.

Then video and no sound. Station ran on their sister channel that they has sound problems.

Zinwell lost sound.

But, at one time the Zinwell had it just fine and both Artecs didn't.

It's all good now!
post #223 of 402
Ok, from the back of the Artec pin one (far left)(123) shows as a common ground to the RCA & coax grounds. Zero resistance with a meter.

Pins 2 and 3 both show 3.30 volts using RCA or coax connecter ground.

Here is a simple RS232 null modem setup without handshaking, using 3 wires.

http://www.efarmoges.gr/site/index.p...mid=77&lang=en

Also look at the next one down, with loop back handshaking, also 3 wires. The loop back handshaking may be needed to let the computer/box know that there is a connection. Pins 1 and 4 are data carrier detect(1) and data terminal ready(4). See top diagram on link for pinout.

What about that 3.30 volts?
post #224 of 402
Definitely a different PCB. Funny how they cut through the mounting holes like they oopsed on the dimensions (maybe an earlier version).

Switch PCB: RN is Resistor Network (IC pkg of Rs in various configs). D is Diode. CB, hmmm, Capacitor Bypass (noise filter) and/or for debouncing (ex: Channel Masters jump too many channels when pressed > design flaw). Odd a simple circuit like this has optional circuitry. Hope the switch code is in and/or activated on the non-switch boxes.

3.3V is a common logic level, I suspect the lines are 'pulled up' with high value Rs (current sources for the data signals).
post #225 of 402
My LL has no upgrade firmware in the menus. If we did get the data port working I see no way to load firmware.

But, the Tivax guys are doing all kinds of things like changing channels and volume...everything the remote can do.

Some people would want this for recording, unlimited event timers by PC.

I have a Polaroid DVR with 80 GB HD and DVD burner built in. It don't have a ATSC tuner but it has A/V, componet and svideo inputs.

I paid $200 three years ago, knowing I'd be plugging it into a sat/converter STB. It's hooked up to sat now. The burner is nice!
post #226 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron350 View Post

NTSC thanks for the pictures.

How is the picture quality on your PRO box?

Picture quality is about the same as any of the better boxes I own. (As long as you're not using s-video.) It's at least as good as any Apex or Tivax I've used.
post #227 of 402
OK. I had a chance to re-open the T3AP Pro and get a good look at the pads for that missing connector. Unfortunately, it's not for an s-video connector, it's for a smart antenna connector. But don't go getting all excited, just filling the space with the proper connector won't be enough. You'd still need that feature added to or enabled in firmware. (And it may still be missing some other small support components.) - Oh well, it WOULD have made the perfect converter for RV enthusiasts.

Also, this T3AP Pro's firmware version is 1.0.4B and does not exhibit any signs of the "freeze" firmware bug that Yankee495 found.
post #228 of 402
I had to get a new phone. I froze it to write down a phone # and that is how I found it.

Ah, smart antenna connector.

If they'd have just put this stuff in there it would be pretty close to the best!

The EPG should scroll out the bottom and back in the top...roll over you know.

Hitting OK in EPG should go to that channel and not need to hit exit...

Meter should have #'s.

Changing channels should pop up the info banner with the channel, time, show....just for a sec or two, instead of just channel.

Volume should move a little faster...have to hold it a long time to go from 100 to 75....
post #229 of 402
Yep it would be nice to have a faster response on the volume control for the Artec and the Zenith.
post #230 of 402
one of the very good things about the ARTEC is how it handles channel #'s that were never scanned or ever found previously....u can enter any rf channel number (without going to any special menu first) and it will display it...this is great for dx'ing or checking channels (or sub-channels) that have been deleted from the memory....

if u try this with most other converters/tuners u will get an INVALID CHANNEL message....

the video FREEEZE FRAME is nice also....i use that a lot.....

every converter should have these features....they would add almost no cost to the unit so why not?

one glaring omission of the ARTEC is not displaying the program name/info when u change channels....not having that makes no sense....seems like a major oversight of a simple yet very useful function....u cant have everything, i guess....

but overall this is a very good unit at a great price....often found free after coupon....
post #231 of 402
Yankee,
I am unable to reproduce the freeze problem on mine as stated in #204.
I am just posting this for comparison for you and others to track the "Bug"
You can find my firmware version and stuff at post #198
post #232 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThePeople View Post

Yankee,
I am unable to reproduce the freeze problem on mine as stated in #204.
I am just posting this for comparison for you and others to track the "Bug"
You can find my firmware version and stuff at post #198

We have the same FW version.

Hit freeze...let it sit until it goes by itself.

You will have motion video and "FREEZE" on the screen.

Hit freeze again ,and freeze goes away but the motion stops.

Hit guide...

All channels will say no signal even though the meter shows a strong signal.

How many can reproduce this?
post #233 of 402
Yep even my old T3AP-LS box does that to.
I was not following your directions correctly.
post #234 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by pm3839 View Post

one of the very good things about the ARTEC is how it handles channel #'s that were never scanned or ever found previously....u can enter any rf channel number (without going to any special menu first) and it will display it...this is great for dx'ing or checking channels (or sub-channels) that have been deleted from the memory....

if u try this with most other converters/tuners u will get an INVALID CHANNEL message....

the video FREEEZE FRAME is nice also....i use that a lot.....

every converter should have these features....they would add almost no cost to the unit so why not?

one glaring omission of the ARTEC is not displaying the program name/info when u change channels....not having that makes no sense....seems like a major oversight of a simple yet very useful function....u cant have everything, i guess....

but overall this is a very good unit at a great price....often found free after coupon....

I went to tvfool and got a chart of channels in my area. 41.1 was MIA! It was supposed to be strong enough for me to get, but nothing.

I was using a Zinwell...I got my artec and all I had to do to check it was punch in 41 (it is actually on 41 too). One day there it was! It had not been on the air yet! Very handy. And yes I checked...the Zinwell gets it too...it was not broadcasting.

And the Zinwell does pop up the show, time, channel, and signal when you change channels. I have a satellite receiver that does this too. Awsome feature. On the sat receiver it is called the dashboard.

Artec needs to hire us as consultants...We don't have to be real smart...just be able to spell a little bit with some common sense!

Like "Aspect ratio cannot be changed in this channel". It should be "The aspect ratio cannot be changed on this channel".

Speaking of MIA I will be till Sunday...It's my bday (dougs bday too) and were gonna throw a party! 20x20 foot big screen outside in a field (our redneck drive-in theater), live band, and lots of beer & food! Lots of country boys, with a few city folks thrown in for the fun of it!

Anyone near Joplin Missouri msg for directions!
post #235 of 402
I circuit traced the wiring for the 5 switches on my T3AP Pro. I kept the wiring diagram as simple as possible. The switches are all momentary type push buttons. The capacitor in the schematic has a value of 0.1 uF. (A small ceramic disk capacitor will do nicely.) The schematic is accurate, but you'll need to determine its proper orientation, as some Artec boxes have the 1-7 pads/pins reversed.



Wire #7 of the schematic above must go to the pad or pin on your board that goes to ground. This pad/pin will either be the one closest to the tuner case, or it will the one furthest from the tuner case. (So far, for most people it's the one furthest from the tuner case.)

With the box unplugged, and using a digital ohm meter (not analog), probe the two pads or pins at each end of the connector. When you've found the one that reads 0 ohms to ground (i.e. the tuner case), you've found number 7 on your board. Now that you know which one is number 7, you also know the numbers of the rest of them.

Also, now that you know in what direction yours are numbered, you can do a test to see if your board supports the extra buttons. Plug in your box and make sure it's turned OFF. Momentarily short the metal case of the tuner to your pad/pin #2. The box should turn on normally. If you have the output of the box connected to your TV, you should see it power up on the screen also.

This test is essentially the same as pressing the center (power) button on the Pro. If this test didn't work, you just saved yourself a bunch of time and trouble. If it did work, there's a good chance that your box will respond to all five of the buttons when wired in correctly.

As you can see though, these pads/pins are VERY small, be VERY careful! Don't even think of doing this test if you've just finished you fifth cup of coffee!!! And make sure you discharge any static by touching the metal tuner case first!

I've tried this test on mine and it does power on. No ill effects. (But then again, it's supposed to work on mine, I already have the Pro version.) Still, I take NO responsibility should you slip, or you box is not compatible in some way. Also, if this is your only box, you may not want to risk being without TV should something go horribly wrong.

The switches can be installed any way you wish. In a straight row, or something resembling the original design. Or maybe in a small separate box mounted to the top of the Artec. (Use the old button hole for wire passage.)

There are just a few things to keep in mind:

1) Keep all wires as short as possible.
2) When done the wiring, give the 7 wire bundle a few turns to reduce noise pickup.
3) And MOST important, choose/mount your switches with static electricity in mind! If you choose switches that have metal bezels and or metal cases, those bezels or cases "should" all be tied to a ground. This can be accomplished by using a separate wire that's connected to all of the switch cases at one end, and the other end is soldered to the tuner case. The first time you walk across the carpet to change channels you'll understand the importance of this. If that discharge were to find its way to the actual switch contacts and wires, you can probably kiss your board good-by. Of course, if your switches are of the all plastic variety, grounding isn't necessary.

Actually though, the hardest part of this mod will be soldering the 7 wires to the circuit board. If your box has the empty pads, soldering will be easier then if it's one that has the connector already installed. And, since this connector is surface mounted, removing it is probably not an option. Finding the proper 7-pin plug for your existing socket would be your best (and safest) bet.

I think that about covers everything. Since I'd hate to see someone's box get fried, please don't attempt this mod if there’s even the slightest doubt in your mind that your soldering skills are up to it.

[INSERT "DON'T HOLD ME RESPONSIBLE" DISCLAIMER HERE!]
post #236 of 402
Nice reverse engineering!

I'm trying to figure out why a company would have different pin-outs for the same 'function' on multiple products; increases assembly inventory (cost) and decreases DFM (Design For Mfgerability). I could see it if for some reason the device the cable is connecting to is model dependent (i.e. Switch PCB); if so they better make the connectors at the other end unique to each model to prevent mishaps. Maybe it just appears different, the connector being rotated 180 degrees on some versions. Typically the dot or circle on the PCB is pin 1.

BTW, Meritline shows the Pro for $45 or two for $80 and free shipping BUT currently out of stock. Smaller to no price to pay to get the switches and it may come with an AV cable (per freeTVsignal but Meritline doesn't list contents). Worth watching for restock.
post #237 of 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee495 View Post

We have the same FW version.

Hit freeze...let it sit until it goes by itself.

You will have motion video and "FREEZE" on the screen.

Hit freeze again ,and freeze goes away but the motion stops.

Hit guide...

All channels will say no signal even though the meter shows a strong signal.

How many can reproduce this?



OK, I'm through with button mods for a moment or so...

I did as you listed, replacing "Guide" with "EPG"

1 - Freeze, wait, observed motion with "Freeze" banner still at bottom
2 - Freeze again, observe freeze with "Freeze" banner missing
3 - Hit EPG, use up/dn and confirm channels missing

I can confirm first two (Freeze) firmware bugs.

The third (Guide/EPG) firmware bug fails to appear for me.

I see every channel through the edges of the guide without failure.
I tried a few times, and all channels all the way around the "Dial"
(Showing my age by saying "Dial"...aren't I...)

I hit signal after leaving EPG, all channels read fine too.
Did I misunderstand the last bug your describing?
post #238 of 402
Thanks NTSC your diagram works but Artec rotated the 7-pin connector 180* on my T3AP-LL and T3AP-LS.

Edit:

My old T3AP-LL and T3AP-LS boards, both with the white 7-pin connector, appear to be the same boards. The only differences are a few caps and resistors connected to the tuner.

The old and new T3AP-LL boards are the same except they left off the 7-pin white connector and the reset switch (unknown function switch). Any other empty tinned pads you see on the new T3AP-LL board are also empty on the old T3AP-LL board.

#1 T3AP-LL received April 09
Serial # V1201W08480004##
073-0000-V12G02
System Version= ?
Did not have extended program guide.
LG tuner #TDVG-H152F .808A07111
Processor = LGDT1111T
0822
PA7967.00D


#2 T3AP-LS received May 09
Serial # V1202W08410006##
073-0000-V12G04
System Version = 2.0.1B
Has extended program guide.
Sanyo tuner # UBDOOAL LOT FVIP
Processor = LGDT1111T
0835
PB5193.00B


#3 T3AP-LL received August 09
Serial # V1201W09250012##
073-0000-V12G02
System Version = 2.1.1B
Has extended program guide just like above LS model.
LG tuner # TDVG-H152F .808A27110
Processor = LGDT1111T
0907
PB5201.00B



Old T3AP-LL on the Left and T3AP-LS on the Right.






Mystery reset switch found in old T3AP-LL and T3AP-LS.


.
post #239 of 402
Super Ron !
Thanks for the LS confirmation

I deleted all temp posts,
and updated my original Post #198
to reflect what was learned today.

Heres one last question about these buttons you can answer.

Your earlier boards have an additional button you considered a reset button.
was there a matching pin hole for a paperclip in the case to press it too?
post #240 of 402
Any ides about the surface mount resistors and caps on the PRO switch board in post #217?

Buy the way great photos you guys are making.
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