Artec T3A Pro NTIA CECB - Page 10

Noise or a displayed graphic? I get a diagonal noise pattern with CECBs hooked to an old knob TV (VHF screws using transformer to the RF output). I cleaned it up somewhat by placing aluminum foil under the CECB and grounded to the CECB's RF connector; the CECB sits on top of the TV.

The Artecs have a menu to adjust some picture features. Try them out as I've heard some are off (plus fine tune per each TV). Has a 'return to factory default' button too if you mess up. Mine was OK but the Hue DAC has a weird discontinuity in it (not centered and makes an abrupt red-green jump at an odd position) but still provides a full tuning range.

Notes:

Zeniths/Insignias and Artecs have the same decoder/tuner chip-sets, even the same LS/LL variety nonsense.

The Apex may have the same chip-set as the iNET and Tivax per Wiki (I've heard the iNET is a Tivax clone).

I mention this because of the differences reported by you and others. And ConsumerReports has the Tivax a step above your others for PQ. Maybe there's more to it than those chips, for example CECB designer application settings for the chips (does the Zenith have PQ adjustments in its menu?).

For me it was the 12V application, good timing for Labor Day weekend camping. Also helps that it's small and light. CH/VOL button version would have been nice vs fumbling around in the dark for the remote. It can run off of a variety of battery voltages too, I tested it at 5V and it may go a volt+ (I'm guessing 3.3V to 3.6V logic inside). I did not and will not plug it in with the engine running as I can't verify greater than 12V operation is safe.

Yes the T3AP-LS box has background herring bone noise like it has a bad F-connector ground. The strange thing is that it changes with what they are showing. I was watching an old black and white Peter Gun episode that had a great picture with no interference. I could change the channel to a prime time show and it would have the interference looking background?

My next step will be to put the circuit board in a metal box and ground the tuner like you suggest.

Hmmm, my noise problem is on all channels. Now a B&W show may not be noticeable if it's 'color' noise (quite possible) but it sounds like you're seeing more than that scenario. The problem I'm referring to is a radiated issue - I suspect the digital noise of a CECB radiates into the old TV's knob tuner that wasn't designed for this era (shielding and/or filtering).

Try moving the LS far away from the TV with a long RF cable. Also try the same thing with the antenna if the antenna is close and possible to move (vs LS and then vs TV). I'm trying to figure out if the problem is radiated or conducted (through the RF cable). If it's conducted then it's as you feared, something wrong with the box (does another TV do it too?); in this case you could try resoldering the tuner components and surrounding components. Yeah a flaky RF connector can cause impedance problems that change with frequency. My 27" had the connector jerked and the tuner flaked out, I resoldered everything and got the tuner back up but it receives better at low freqs than high freqs although Ch3/4 isn't 100% anymore (thank goodness for the A/V and S-video inputs!).

Now you got me wanting to find a B&W show to try on that old TV.

This T3AP-LS box is the only CECB I have tested with the herringbone background problem.
On the station that runs the old black and white shows one show will be clear and the next may have the herringbone. The same thing may happen with prime time show one perfect and the next bad. Last night the Carson Daly show had a great picture but one of the commercials had herringbone?

It is like the Sanyo tuner in this -LS only likes a cretin broadcast signal or something. Who knows it might be something as simple as a tuner coil being gapped wrong or a cold solder joint.
I have tried changing just about every thing including different power supplies with no improvement.

That IS weird and reeks of being a conducted problem. Sounds like something in the content (input format, graphic images/text, CC, etc.) is triggering it. Something like that might also be the demodulator or decoder. You might play around with it while it's active - something insulated to poke around with (and ground yourself), freeze spray, heat (conservatively with a blow dryer), etc. Tap the tuner lid (vibration should make it lose lock for a second though). Wiggle the RF connectors (hopefully they don't actually wiggle! ).

You said before composite video is clean. Makes me think the demodulator although I don't know if there are any significant circuits post-demodulator; amplifiers, mixers, filters, etc.

You can run it off of a battery, 5V to 12V for sure. Maybe even less than 5V like 4V but my lowest supply was 5V. Eliminates AC connection to the CECB other than ground feeds. I had two TVs sharing an antenna, one of which went whacko when the other was on. It quit doing it not too long ago, my best guess was a noisy ground from an unused cable TV connection going to my breaker box (since removed, I don't need to ground the cable company anymore! ).

Has anyone out there run this on 12V with engine/alternator running??

Not that I've read on these threads. WeThePeople ran it for an hour at 15V though and it didn't fry. The 'potential' problem is a pin on the regulator IC is only rated to 12V; this pin has to be activated by the input power line for the IC to turn on. There could be a circuit to protect this pin above 12V but we don't know; if not, it is unknown how long the part will IC above 12V. I'm also assuming nothing else in the box is running directly off the input power line (i.e. everything else runs off of the regulator IC).

Measure the voltage across your battery with your engine running, should be closer to 14V due to the charging by the alternator. Engine off should be closer to 12V.

mntmst has run his with the car running. He uses diodes in series to drop the voltage down to 12V. There is still the possibility of transients zapping the box but they can be filtered out (there might even be a filter for voltage transients in the box since the mfg says it's suitable for RVs):
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=120

The discussion continues on the page of the thread that follows thru post 123:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1013420&page=5

I haven't seen anything from the manufacturer on this, just marketing references from resellers ("may be suitable for automotive use").

For the battery folks, these Artecs can run off of lower voltages. Just requires proportionally more current from the battery (i.e. same total power). I ran my LL off of my Zinwell 5V wall-wart but I need to test more thoroughly for picture freeze as was noted in one of the links you supplied (may have been due to insufficient battery current). I'll post back after I get around to it.

Thanks for the links, very interesting!

You are welcome. Yes they are, because I want to be able to receive the latest TV news during a power failure or weather emergency.


Does this help?:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...6&postcount=80
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=144
http://www.artectv.com/Service_e/nl/home/faq.asp.htm
http://www.artectv.com/Service_e/nl/...r_ATSC_STB.htm
http://www.artectv.com/Service_e/nl/...tm#ATSC_STB_17 answer to RV question here

For powering the Artec in a vehicle what about using a Low Dropout Regulator like the LM2940CT-12?

http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM2940.pdf

TC,
I have run this at 15.1 and then some without failure for over an hour with the board out of the box.

The two voltage regulator IC's and all others were just fine with that.

I dare say that if your to much over 15.1 on an automotive/rv battery
you must be adding water every third day or less.

The idea of introducing a few diodes in series
with a little over a half volt loss each is still a good idea.

This box has been run by another on 5-V as reference,
so four diodes would keep you completely safe.

Here is what I could contribute to THE CAUSE.

I still have mine in the car. Still working fine but the switch to VHF high has made it harder to use a small antenna.

Kenwood DDX-812

$1.50 bowtie antenna and rear-view camera on GPS suction mount attached to rear window.

Yes.

Also a zener diode circuit if the zener can handle the power when the box is off (very important!):

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...c/zenereg.html

Because of the power problem when off I'd prefer the other solutions.

A resistive voltage divider on the enable pins of the switching regulator ICs is the proper design solution, assuming that the switching regulators are the only devices 'seeing' the input supply line. It would lower the threshold voltage that the regulators would turn on but there should be plenty of range for this.

Interesting, somewhat vague, but interesting. It WAS Artec (I hope the Q&A guy conferred with Marketing and Engineering).
I wish the person asking would have asked if he could start his engine.

Speaking of which, do newer model cars have regulated auxilliary supplies? RVs? Anything ~5V? (for portable devices, maybe picked off the regulator for an auto's computer). I still drive an '89 so don't have a clue.

KISS principle applied:

$1.59 = 5-Volt Fixed-Voltage Regulator from Radio-Shaft.
(Many cigarette lighter plug adapters have these in them)

Add heatsink, case, and a reasonable electrolytic capacitor.
Voila, cheap and easy solution.


Or look for the LM7809 9-Volt one if your concerned about current @5V...

Nice find! I see they also have a 12V and an adjustable ($2.29 and add a few resistors): http://www.radioshack.com/family/ind...goryId=2032279

The closer to 12V the better for efficiency. The 12V part would dissipate a little less than a watt with the engine running so that honkin' TO-220 wouldn't need a heatsink. With the engine off the output voltage would drop some (not operating in dropout) but it doesn't matter to the Artec. With the engine on it would regulate & filter better (note dropout is less at lower current as well as higher temp). If noise is a problem then a lower voltage regulator will provide better filtering.

Ref: http://www.national.com/ds/LM/LM340.pdf#page=1

Yeah I wondered about those cigarette lighter plug adapters, something simple like your proposal might fit in the plug and get a little extra heatsink from the ground connection. I did a quick search and found this universal one, I suspect it has a switching regulator if they mean it can supply 500mA at any of those voltages:

http://www.tootoo.com/d-rp1908322-Universal_DC_Adapter/

I ran my LL again at 5V but more throughly checked it out. Didn't observe any operational problems, including no pic freeze (someone said they had a pic freeze problem at 7.5V...?).

It did pick up a low-level low-frequency audio hum, sort of sounds like a motor; changes with what appears to be the brightness/contrast (load change I suspect). The hum stays even when I mute the Artec audio and of course it's more discernible. I think it's because of the Zinwell 5V switching adapter that I'm using, need a cleaner supply to confirm.

"Radio-Shaft" LOL. Radio-Sheist? Convenient but pricey, I've got one I can walk to whereas Best Buy or somesuch are miles away. Reminds me of Ace Hardware vs the big boys. R-S should do like Ace and put on good sales to stay alive.

Using this CECB as a 'jump start' for the problematic TVGOS, I was sucessfull in re-establishing TVGOS listings after a 'crash' of my analog TVGOS device without any of additional the steps posted elsewhere.
Note, the box is only inserted for less than 24 hours, then removed to get the TVGOS grid which apparently has been the issue for owners of V8 TVGOS devices (TV's, DVR's and DVD recorders).

Great thread guys,

Have a couple of questions as I have (2) coupons expiring soon....

What is the difference between the LL and LS versions?
(Artec T3AP-LS is in stock, LL is out of Stock)

Guide- How far does GUIDE go out?
(I read on the newer versions of the Sunkey 801 that Sunkey crippled their guide that went out to 7-days? due to licensing issues.. No Guide= Sunkey doesn't have to pay Royalty fees)

How would you Artec owners rate:

Picture / Sound Quality...

Build Quality

(I see WeThePeople does NOT like the Craig/ Sunkey units but says he likes the Artec units.... I'm assuming this means the Sunkey/Craigs are cheaply built, and the Artec's are more substantial ?)

I'm looking for something that will "last"...


(Currently have)

DTVPal Plus
Zenith DT901
Zinwell 970A, 950
APEX DT502


Another way to phrase the above...

What would you purchase at this point in time?

Only low / no cost units I see on the market are:

APEX DT250A
Sunkey 801
Craig CVD-508 (AKA Sunkey 801)
Airlink 101

.

If you go back to post #145 and read forward all of your questions will be answered.

If you like the Zenith DTT901 you will like the Artec T3AP-LL box.

Read thru posts from 123+/- forward...

From what I read the LL=LG tuner, LS-Sanyo... the LG performing better...
Artec has a guide that shows 5-6 hours into the future. No timers, external 12vdc power brick.

So...

Who is currently selling the Artec T3AP-LL's?




.

These two places were selling the T3AP-LL for a coupon with free shipping but they ran out last week.

https://secure.freetvsignal.com/viewAll.php

http://www.meritline.com/newsearch.a...erm=artec+t3ap
http://www.meritline.com/searchnew.a...erm=artec+t3ap

Looks like Meritline still has some T3AP-LS and T3AP Pro boxes but not free. Both of these boxes use the Sanyo tuner which is OK but not as sensitive as the LG tuner.

i have DN TR40's and the ARTEC Artec T3AP (dont know if its LL or LS, i suspect LS because the LL's are marked LL on the product box....or maybe its the other way around, not sure....mine just says 'Artec T3AP' )

i dont think there is much difference between the ARTEC LL and LS....maybe some slightly better/different tuner performance? the tuner in my Artec T3AP is very good....so either way u should be ok...

the guide in my Artec T3AP is NOW/NEXT with a very slow/awkward way to see ahead a few hours but with no program descriptions....program titles only....but it does give program descriptions for the current and next program....pic and audio quality is very good on both the rf and a/v outputs....and build quality is good....but the remote control has a very narrow angle of acceptance ....its range (distance to unit) is ok but u have to be pointed right at the box to work....

the TR40 aka DTVPal has by FAR the best epg of any cecb dtv boxes i have used or read about....its well worth a $20 cost after coupon if u can find one somewhere....it also has record timers, a very rare feature....thats what i would get at this point....

i think the SUNKEY does not have a CHANNEL RECALL function....thats essential to have, im my opinion...but i think the CRAIG version does have it....

i also have the ZINWELL 970A...overall, it works well....no major complaints/problems...worst thing about it is no epg program descriptions...its NOW/NEXT program title only....

as for the AIRLINK, DO NOT buy one of those ....i had one and it had very poor video quality....and some other minor problems...and their tech support is worthless....i did a review of it here on AVS in the AIRLINK thread....

I have an artec T3AP-LL digital converter box with system version 2.1.1B,
which I got from freetvsignal in march 2009.

This box detects 5.1 but not 5.2 from WPTZ in Vermont. I tried several
manual and automatic rescans, and tried resetting the artec to factory
defaults. 5.2 does not appear in the channel list, cannot be changed to
manually, and cannot be added manually. I have tested 4 of these artecs, and
all have this bug. I also have a sansonic FT-300A and a sunkey SK-801ATSC,
both of which detect 5.2.

Maybe this bug is caused by errors in the PSIP data. Maybe the
broadcasters will eventually stop sending incorrect PSIP data, and then a
firmware update will not be needed.

I posted a message about this on the local forum and received these
responsfoxfan said:
WPTZ 5-2 also doesn't come in on my old Samsung SIR-T151 tuner I use on a
second TV. Some PSIP incompatibility.

RonXYZ said:
Not sure if it is related but looking at TsReader report on http colon slash
slash www dot rabbitears dot info slash screencaps slash vt-brl slash
57476-0_0.htm you can see that the "Carrier Frequency" field is not set at
'0' as recommended by FCC and the "Source ID" field for both channels are
set to '1' I think they should be different.

I looked at the tsreader report about WPTZ, and compared it to the tsreader
reports for WCAX, WETK and WFFF. The artec receives WCAX, WETK and WFFF
correctly. I looked for anything that is different for WPTZ. As noted by
RonXYZ, WPTZ has "Carrier Frequency: 473", while the other channels have
"Carrier Frequency: 0"; and WPTZ has "Source ID: 1" for both subchannels,
while the other channels have a different Source ID for each subchannel.

I also noticed something else. tsreader says the first WPTZ virtual channel
is "Program Number: 3", and the second WPTZ virtual channel is "Program
Number: 7". With most broadcasters, the first virtual channel is 3 and the
second virtual channel is 4, so WPTZ is different than other broadcasters.
This might be the difference which triggers the firmware bug in the artec.
WCAX has program 1 and program 2 instead of program 3 and program 4, and the
artec does not have a problem with that, so the problem is numbers which are
not consecutive, not that the wrong numbers are used. Maybe the artec sees
that there is no program 4, and therefore assumes that 3 is the last
program, and thus thinks that program 7 does not exist.

more about tsreader: http colon slash slash www dot tsreader dot com

tsreader reports for WCAX, WETK, WFFF:
http colon slash slash www dot rabbitears dot info slash screencaps slash vt-brl slash 46728-0_0.htm
http colon slash slash www dot rabbitears dot info slash screencaps slash vt-brl slash 69944-0_0.htm
http colon slash slash www dot rabbitears dot info slash screencaps slash vt-brl slash 10132-0_0.htm

So my theory is that the artec is confused by nonconsecutive program
numbers. Can anyone verify or disprove this? Are there any other channels
where these artecs fail to find some of the subchannels, and do these
channels have nonconsecutive program numbers? Are there any channels with
nonconsecutive program numbers where the artecs find all subchannels?

rabbitears.info has tsreader reports for many channels. Go to
rabbitears.info, listings, city, station, technical information,
tsreader report.

I know of one other station with nonconsecutive program numbers: WXXA in
Albany, NY; virtual channels 23.1 and 23.2; real channel 7; program numbers
3 and 8; tsreader report http colon slash slash www dot rabbitears dot info
slash screencaps slash ny-alb slash 11970-0_0.htm. If any of you with artecs
in your cars ever drives through Albany, see if you get both 23.1 and 23.2.
es:

Artec T3AP-LL=LG tuner
Artec T3AP-LS=Sanyo tuner


Ended up ordering some T3AP-LS's thru Meritline..

FYI:

1: When asked if Meritline were getting anymore T3AP-LL's... They said they are trying to get in contact with the mfg regarding getting more T3AP-LL's.... But the mfg had not gotten back with them.

2: Meritline said they had 100 T3AP-LS's in-stock
2a: Meritline does NOT have a 1-800... After a wait of 10-15 mins on hold each time I called (I called on "my dime" (3) times getting disconnected each time.) upon finally getting someone on the phone . when I did get someone on the phone they acted "short" with me, like I was "bothering" them.. (Yes I know they are a web-based operation, and they prefer ZERO contact with customers...)

I had (2) very short questions:
A: If they had any LL's on order / Expected ETA of LL's.
B: To verify stock of the LS's.

3: This is on the product page if you read the WHOLE page:

Be aware when ordering if using a converter box coupon.... When you place a order you have to enter the converter box coupon #'s, the expiry date and CCV2# in the "Order Notes section" MANUALLY...
(I placed one order expecting to be rolled over to a page in which you (the customer) enters the info, then are rolled over to a page that asks you to verify all order info before the order is "submitted". None of that at Meritline, nor a way I saw to add the asked for info so I created another order adding the info manually...)

I for sure wasn't to call them again... on my dime...


For anyone else in the "market" here is another place selling the T3AP's.

Satellite Radio Superstore
An IBSM Inc. Company
7213 Sandscove Court Suite 10
Winter Park, FL 32792

Phone: 1.800.513.8554
Fax: 407.657.8177
Email: contactus@satelliteradiosuperstore.com

http://www.digital-tv-converter.net/

Note for the record that they are responsive to e-mail inquiries. I e-mailed them last night regarding the Artec T3AP wanting to know if the units were LL, or LS's and by 9:46am I had a response in my in-box.




If http://www.digital-tv-converter.net/would have had "free" shipping I would preferred going thru them instead of Meritline.
(Reasons 1-800, Lists a physical address, responds to sales inquiries in a timely manner)





Thanks for your thoughts... I had considered the AIRLINK unit but decided against it after reading your review. I like you agree that the EPG on the DishNetwork TR-40 /AKA DTVPal, and the DTVPal PLus (while far from perfect) are light years ahead of any of the other CECB tuners on the market.


One last thing and I'll close with this...

1: I bet the persons who wrote up the "rulings" on what could be "included" on a CECB tuners have cable /satellite. I wish every single one of them lose their job and have to go to OTA only..

(Translation: Most politicians, rule makers don't live in the "real-world" that their "rules" affect.)


2: There is alot of talk about "Price-Point" being the reason for a decent guide /S-Video not being included in CECB's as the rule and not the exception. I wonder how much that would have added to the cost if ALL boxes were required to have it.

(I would think the politicians have a "guide" on their cable/satellite box.. I wonder how they'd like it if their "guide" was reduced to the level of non TR-40/DTVPal, DTVPal Plus series units...)

3: I wish the designers, the marketers and yes those lovely lying politicians were "forced" to hear from their wives, girl friends, boyfriends of their "displeasure" of how these CECB's operate.

If I was running things... All units would have a FULL guide, timers that would turn the unit on at a set time, tune to a channel, and S-Video output.

****


PS: WHAT REMOTE CODES, or aftermarket remotes work the ARTEC UNITS?

Is this info in the opening post?

.

sounds like u have no good way to call long distance ( ld ), same as me....i dont have a cell phone/whatever with free or reasonably priced ld....i can only make local calls....so u need to do what i did >

get a GOOGLE VOICE account....u have to apply for an invite from google...i got mine after about a week...its free and will give u free unlimited ld calling to any 48 state usa number....it works well for me....it will call your phone and then put the call through as tho u made the call ....GOOGLE VOICE is a great way to deservedly stick it in the eye of our monopolistic criminal rat bastard phone companies >>>

Google Voice is currently available by invite only. Get an Invite. See how Google Voice works with your phones. ...
http://www.google.com/googlevoice/about.html

Have a cell phone, just hate wasting my minutes and time getting disconnected 3 times to finally talk with someone that sounds like they don't appreciate the business...


.

Does any one know if the T3AP Pro box has an extended program guide like the T3AP-LL and T3AP-LS has?

I went back and read NTSCs posts about his T3AP Pro but could not find any info about EPG.