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Need motivation? Get "LOGANED" - Page 102

post #3031 of 3638
Logan, how about just getting a bunch of those silica gel packets and place them under the floor. or tear open some diapers and place the gells from those under the floors. That stuff absorbs everything.

Now since it is hard to tell when people are joking on the internet, note that this was all in jest.
post #3032 of 3638
I second, er ah third the planer idea. OSB and sanding is just asking for major dust issues. I know exactly what you mean regarding the feeling of the floor, that is exactly why I did my Platon/OSB subfloor. I HATE water issues, the only thing worse is fire and that is because with fire you also have water (typically). Chin up my friend, hopefully you are correct that with in these past three years you have experienced the 50 and 100 year flood and now you are good to go.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #3033 of 3638
BTW, did you know that dust will set off a smoke alarm? Yeah, I found out when I was trying to sand down my subfloor in preparation for hardwoods. I didn't know the dust would do it, so I just assumed there was smoke somewhere. When the fire department got there, the first thing they asked is whether or not I was making a lot of saw dust. At the time I thought that was a pretty amazing guess. The next time I passed a mirror I was way less impressed. I was covered in dust except for the ring where my dust mask and safety glasses. They were probably laughing all the way back to the station.

Moral of the story, +1 for the planer
post #3034 of 3638
Thread Starter 
I actually WAS aware that dust can set off the alarms. It happened the last time I had the flood and I was going around the perimeter of the room cutting the dricore from under the stud walls. So I'm definitely trying the planer first.

After the alarms went off, I had to hold the circular saw and cut with one hand and hold the shop vac nozzle with the other.
post #3035 of 3638
Taking the smoke detector down in the area where you are working is a great idea. I saved the little baggies that cover the smoke detectors when I replaced them last year.

post #3036 of 3638
Quote:


So I'm definitely trying the planer first.

I have an old B&D electric planer, its 240v but have transformer...... Welcome to use it. I think if you get rid of high spots and then use a thin ply you'll be good till next flood

Not sure increasing the sump pit will help - need to find way's of a) prevent water getting to the sump system and b) ejecting faster and more reliably.

Just my 2c
post #3037 of 3638
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritInVA View Post

Not sure increasing the sump pit will help - need to find way's of a) prevent water getting to the sump system and b) ejecting faster and more reliably.

Just my 2c


When I initially read this I was going to disagree with you on sump size, however thinking about my own situations of when I experienced problems a bigger pit would not have helped (or at least say a pit two or three times a conventional pit anyway), only something that was too big to be practical in a basement would have helped. I think getting more reliability and more volume is your best answer (other than having water come in at all), which is not practical in some situation nor is it cheap.

I know you checked the sumps just prior to failure, but other than preventative maintenance, vigilance, and some luck there is really not much you can do. Especially when you have extraordinary circumstances such as what you had.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #3038 of 3638
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTROSE View Post

I know you checked the sumps just prior to failure, but other than preventative maintenance, vigilance, and some luck there is really not much you can do. Especially when you have extraordinary circumstances such as what you had.

And Tom has alarms as well. The backup should have worked. About the only thing that could be done is to add a fancy (read expensive) monitoring system that calls your cell when something is happening.
post #3039 of 3638
What concerned me when Tom last showed pictures was the pit was very muddy..... don't think thats normal.....but not seen many to know whats normal. If I were Tom with 2 floods I would definitly get a water powered pump.
post #3040 of 3638
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritInVA View Post

What concerned me when Tom last showed pictures was the pit was very muddy..... don't think thats normal.....but not seen many to know whats normal. If I were Tom with 2 floods I would definitly get a water powered pump.


My sumps are pretty clean, and the water (even at high flow volumes) runs pretty clean. There are also issues with water powered pumps, plumbing location, setup, flow requirements, etc. They work on a venturi principal and typically move about twice the water it takes to make them operate i.e. uses one gallon to remove two. I always had an uneasy feeling about using/adding water to a "water issue". They are also prone to clogging (like any sump) so if there is a lot of trash in Logan's pits, it may not have helped.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #3041 of 3638
yep. Aware they have issues but as a last resort back up better than the alternative
post #3042 of 3638
Thread Starter 
Since both times it's happened there was no one home, I can't REALLY know what the problem is. I suspect that the sump pit is lower than the bottom of the walkout drain that empties into the pit. SO, if a huge volume of water hits the walkout, it overflows the pit. There are (I think) three 3" (or 4"...I'll have to check) drains from under the house going into the pit and only one 1.5 pipe going out. Right now, I'm investigating adding a bilge pump to the walkout to at least reduce the amount of water going into the pit.
post #3043 of 3638
This would be a very expensive fix, but have you considered having drain tiles installed around your footer? It sounds like your lot has sufficient grade for it, and it should eliminate the need for the sump all together. Although, considering it wasn't done when the home was built, I would guess that there is a reason this wasn't done originally.
post #3044 of 3638
Thread Starter 
I appreciate the advice, but, again, there are already drain lines running under the house into the pit. The lot is graded so that water runs away from the house...it sits up. I have to apply the parking brake in neutral and then into park in my driveway so that the cars don't roll back and lock the trans. I'm just not sure that additional drain tiles would help. I really think the issue is that in these two instances, the EXTREMELY high amount of water in such a short period of time overwhelmed the system. We had reports of up to 10"/hour! And the ground WAS still saturated from Irene, which was handled fine.
post #3045 of 3638
Yeah. At the rate it was raining that day, even my downspouts were completely overwhelmed.

Your experience did have me go out and get a backup pump system and backup battery. Installed it yesterday, but still need to prime the battery with acid. HD was out and the local autozone didn't have enough.
post #3046 of 3638
I'm a novice when it comes to sump pits because I've never owned a house with one. You say that the weeping tiles around your footings tie into the sump pit? If so, why? Why not redirect them to the front or back of the property since your grade may allow it? Pretty sure the ones in my place tie into the storm sewer out on the street.
post #3047 of 3638
Thread Starter 
The only thing I can think of is that we are in the Chesapeake Bay watershed and they really try to control what goes into the storm drains. That, and it was probably cheaper for the developer. Even though I have a two car driveway, I only have single car apron because it cost more in county permits to have a two car apron. I can't imagine what it would have cost to tie into the storm system at the street.
post #3048 of 3638
It's against code for runoff water to be directed into the sewer system. I don't know why, but I can guess. Can you imagine how much it would cost to treat all of the runoff water? I wanted to tie my evaporators for the AC systems into the drain, but was told that was no good...against code. So it's still pumped to the sump pit where it is ejected outside. Apparently, that's OK. Go figure.

It's actually a very common building practice to install weep tiles (actually 4" black perforated pipe) around the perimeter of the foundation. This is wrapped in a sock like fabric to keep mud from going into the pipe and ultimately into the sump pit. The outside of foundation walls are covered in a waterproofing substance (like tar) that keeps water out. Once water goes into the ground and hits the foundation walls, it seems down to the bottom and into the sump pit. There it is pumped away from the foundation. http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...ation-drains-0

The best approach is to ensure that your gutters carry water as far away as possible, and that they are kept clean of debris. If the lot grading is fine, than it's a matter of sizing the pumps for the expected MAX load, ensuring that all of the parts work, and installing an emergency system.

Maybe you need to investigate an underground roof: http://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/...derground-roof

(There you go guys...I'm sending him off on a large project that will take years! BuuuuuHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! )
post #3049 of 3638
Don't you guys have seperate storm and sanitary sewers? I would have thought. The storm sewers (runoff from lawns, roads, parking lots etc...) goes right to the lake in my area. Only sanitary gets treated. Weeping tile (black perferated pipe with sock) is just collecting runoff as well. In your case, it goes into a pit, then gets pumped out where it then goes into a storm sewer (eventually). Instead of tapping into your sewer which is unlikely, I was just wondering if there is a point on your property which is below the level of the bottom of your footings? If so, you could in theory, dig a trench from that point to your footings, tie into your weeping tile and have it drain by gravity. Just a thought.
post #3050 of 3638
Advertguy: I understand your question now. I was thinking that you were asking why not dump the water from the pit into the sanitary server, not the storm drain. That's realy a good quistion. Fairfax county is filthy with lot sof holding ponds to hold runoff to take some load off the storm drain. I suspect that Tom's property is down too low to drain into the storm drain, but let's see what Tom says...
post #3051 of 3638
The bottom of my sump well has a drain to the sewer. I'm pretty sure the sewer and storm drain are connected/the same around here. I don't think it is to code now, although apparently was code when they first installed it. The problem that I've had is that in heavy rains, the storm drains are overwhelmed and back up into the house. I have had to put in a one way valve to prevent this. I also have a sump pump in the well. So just because you have drainage to the storm drain doesn't mean it is without some disadvantage!
post #3052 of 3638
Here in my location they want your sumps to empty into the Storm drain, NOT the sanitary sewer (knowing what is in there is it really sanitary) and it is a code violation to do so. There were a lot of houses in my neighborhood that did just that and were directed to have the sumps empty into the storm drain. My sumps empty right at the storm grate via a very long run of PVC.

Only when we get a lot of water does the two ever meet (in my understanding) ever overwhelm our system. Otherwise they are two different systems.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #3053 of 3638
Thread Starter 
Quote:


The only thing I can think of is that we are in the Chesapeake Bay watershed and they really try to control what goes into the storm drains.

And let me amend this to add that they are trying to control ground runoff as well. I'm about two miles from the Potomac River which runs in to the bay, so I've got kind of a double whammy.

Now, having said that, there IS a watershed right behind my property. I have a drain right over my property line that empties into it. And there is a spring fed pond across that street that has an overflow drain into it as well. One of the downspouts on the back of the house runs to that drain. I tried to get someone out this past spring to run a line from the sump and the other downspout out to the same location, but I think that after the winter and all the snow we had, I fell under the amount irrigation guys were willing to take jobs for. And I wanted someone who knew what they were doing, not just me going out and hiring a couple of guys to dig. Then summer hit and I let it go. Guess I need to get on it.
post #3054 of 3638
Why hire a couple of guys? You own a shovel?
post #3055 of 3638
Thread Starter 
Are you suggesting that I resort to manual labor? Surely, you jest. You have not been reading this thread, my son.
post #3056 of 3638
Quote:
Originally Posted by advertguy2 View Post

Why hire a couple of guys? You own a shovel?

Advert, you missed the part where he mentioned hiring someone who actually knew what they were doing. He could dig, but in dimension X that water would need to run uphill when Logan was done.
post #3057 of 3638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiahead View Post

Advert, you missed the part where he mentioned hiring someone who actually knew what they were doing. He could dig, but in dimension X that water would need to run uphill when Logan was done.

Hey, I remember the Amazing Gravity Spot from my childhood. Didn't every state have one of those?
post #3058 of 3638
Quote:
Originally Posted by advertguy2 View Post

Don't you guys have seperate storm and sanitary sewers? I would have thought. The storm sewers (runoff from lawns, roads, parking lots etc...) goes right to the lake in my area. Only sanitary gets treated. Weeping tile (black perferated pipe with sock) is just collecting runoff as well. In your case, it goes into a pit, then gets pumped out where it then goes into a storm sewer (eventually). Instead of tapping into your sewer which is unlikely, I was just wondering if there is a point on your property which is below the level of the bottom of your footings? If so, you could in theory, dig a trench from that point to your footings, tie into your weeping tile and have it drain by gravity. Just a thought.

In my case we aren't close enough to the sewer lines for that to work. So like the rest of the guys around here, we have a sump that pumps the water that builds up around the outside walls back outside. When we have a bad storm I add some additional piping so that it runs further away from the house. There is just runs down my lawn into my neighbors yard, pools up and cause issues in his basement. Better him than me.
post #3059 of 3638
I'm not saying you have to tie into the storm sewer. I'm saying just let it run off at wherever the pipe daylights. ideally that would be into some sort of drainage ditch or something that doesn't flood itself during heavy rains.

Although, if you're high enough to accomplish this, then the natural drainage of your lot should take the water away fast enough to not flood your basement.

I'm starting to believe this dimension X mumbo-jumbo....
post #3060 of 3638
So whats lastest on damage containment/repair Tom. Does the drycore look saveable?

Incidently made a inspection of my sump pit over weekend. I've never heard it run. I'ts a submersable so not sure if makes any noise!

Well anyway there was water in pit (not surprising with weather of late) but about 18" below slab. Got some buckets of water and topped it up. Never heard anything, did not see water movement or ejection at outlet so thinking pump is MIA. Just lucky I have walk out and water table below grade I guess. But think I may investigate further and replace pump.
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