Hauppauge WinTV HD PVR (H.264) screenshot - Page 48

I'm wondering if someone can help me with my problem of burning my SD .ts files to dvd-9. It took 3 hours last night to burn 1.4Gb of standard (not HD) ts files, and the dvd was unreadable when it was complete.

I only added the separate ts files to ArcSoft (10 qty), created a submenu, changed the title and then burned to DVD. No editing.

Three hours later, the result is an unplayable dvd.

I'm tired and I don't feel like troubleshooting further. Anyone have any ideas? What am I doing wrong?

EDIT: I tried burning to my HDD based on a previous post, and ArcSoft TotalMediaStudio takes JUST AS FRIGGIN LONG as it did burning to a DVD. I don't believe I have TMS setup wrong, so wtf? Not only does it take forever (DVD or HDD), but I'm left with crap at the end?

Sent my original unit back because of no passthrough and no preview, got a replacement just a few days later (excellent turnaround). Reinstalled driver (from web site) and software (from CD). Some problems fixed, but still got a blank preview screen. Before contacting support again, I tried an install on another computer that has never seen Hauppauge software. Also, the newer system is somewhat faster (C2D 2.13GHz vs. P4 3GHz) and uses Vista, but I doubt those are factors for capture, I'm assuming I'm seeing a software problem.

Much to my happy surprise, the unit worked on the Vista computer. One problem that I'm ignoring for now is that during driver installation and afterward, the pass-through optical audio stopped working (very strange, haven't read this here before). Went with RCA cables instead, no big deal for now till DD 5.1 is supported. The initial 6-min test capture of several HD channels went well, and I tried a number of output file conversions. My main aim is high quality steaming playback on PS3 via gigabit ethernet via TwonkyMedia via XP files.

Got similar results to others when I tried MP4 Creator ("corrupted data" on PS3), though computer playback was fine. Tried TMPG's MovieStyle to reencode to the PS3 AVC/MP4 format, result no audio and the video had a few junk lines at the bottom (maybe that's the "audio"?) Also tried TMPG's XPress to make a MPEG2, result on PS3 exactly the same as MovieStyle, leading me to suspect whatever codec is reading the .TS file in TMPG products. Lastly, tried a number of things in tsMuxeR, but I'm not a video geek (isn't that obvious already?) so I don't know if I was trying the right things.

I finally read a post here a few days ago recommending the mild hack of "burning" an AVCHD to the hard drive, and then renaming the largest .m2ts file just like for ripped BluRay disks. Happily, this doesn't take too long, no reencoding apparently. The result file streamed very well on the PS3; I could distinguish very little quality difference from original source material (100-inch projected). Fast forward worked well at all speeds (I think up to 300x). I went back and used the "cutting room" feature for about 7 different short cuts; although the reencode took a long time, the resulting file again played back fine on the PS3 (this is contrary to other reports on this forum, although the sample was unrealisticly short).

Latest test was an extended record of a 2.4-hour 1080i movie with the recorder quality sliders pushed all the way to the right, to see if I could get the same results, especially to see if the reported heating problems surfaced. My unit is sitting sideways with no obstructions. The recording (overnight) was successful. Used TotalMediaStudio again to burn to hard drive: After I brought in the captured .TS file, the graphic indicator at the bottom said I was using like 13.6Gb out of 8Gb on my disc -- oh no I thought, I bet that means it will reencode to 8Gb. Happily it did not reencode, it rewrote the existing content just like for my short sample. (A bug that's a feature or is it the other way around?) This long .m2t(s) again streamed perfectly on the PS3, all fast forward worked, quality was indistinguishable from original material on the DVR, the data rate reported by PS3 was pretty steady at about 13.5Mbs.

Altogether, this unit appears to work great for recording HD video and streaming back to the PS3, although the conversion to .m2ts to play on PS3 is a bit of a hack. Obviously, not having multichannel audio is a big problem and makes the unit not usable for capturing movies with significant surround sound. Other problems to be resolved include restoring the optical passthrough, getting it to work on the XP system I had originally wanted, and seeing if there are thermal problems when I put it in the hotter equipment cabinet -- though all three of these have workarounds.

Super anxious now to get DD 5.1 working! Good luck everybody.

Try perfecting your process with a 3 minute clip...

I erased my HDNet test patterns some time ago; do you know if they ever rebroadcast them. Can you upload the testpattern in 720p .TS? Thanks.

I have previously posted here my experimentation with 3rd party provided 720p. TS samples that were converted to MP4 with MP4 Creator. However, now that my RMA has arrived, as soon as I get some time, I will attempt to recreate my successes in getting files to work on my AppleTV.

Is your ATV stock, out of the box; or have you "upgraded" it in any way?

Great post, kobak - it's nice to read some additional positive results!

I have the impression that for the above quoted result you were streaming to the PS3, yes? (TVersity?) I had mentioned that I thought the re-encodes might stream OK, though they hit bit rates too high for red-laser disk. I would be really interested if you could shed more light on this, if you might have a chance to (1) watch the data rate on your PS3 while you play the re-encoded stuff and (2) if it does show spikes, burn them onto a DVD5 and see if they play off that in the PS3?

Thanks Michael, I actually bit the bullet this morning having been sat on the fence for a couple of weeks and working out a story to tell me wife for the unauthorized expenditure

I did patchstick my atv when i first got it but have since restored it as i found the perian codec gave a terrible render of m4v files. I mostly handbrake dvd's to m4v so im a little spoilt with a gui... hopefully something similar will help with the hd recorded files.

My order is 375 something so im sure i have a while to wait.

They used to broadcast them at ~6:30 on Saturday morning. Check their website schedule. Mine is recorded at 1080i. Don't think you want to do an evaluation with something my SA 8300 HD downresed to 720p.

Ok. I made two 3-minute clips of Ratatouille in HD and burned them to a DVD9. The DVD is unplayable on my regular DVD player and PC. Both think that the DVD is blank.

The PS3 can play the disc without problems.

So can ArcSoft's TMS create DVD's that are viewable on hardware besides the PS3? Can someone provide more info on this? Thank you.

I don't want to go too far OT and become an AppleTV discussion, but typically the problem you had occurs on installation of Perian: a question is asked if you want to retain Apple H.264 component and the CORRECT answer is YES, you do want to retain it. Then m4v's should play fine!

Are you Windows or Mac in addition to your ATV? If Mac you can use Elgato's Turbo.264 hardware encoding stick to convert .TS 1080i to 800x540 (and anamorphic 960 to 540) and VisualHub to convert .TS 720p to either 720p 24 or 25 fps or 540p 30 or 29.97 frames per second and iTunes will sync them over and play on the stock ATV.

I crank VisualHub to 1280x720 on 29.97fps with high bit rates when converting 720p .TS files and they play on my Upgraded ATV. iTunes will not sync them; I use AFP or SSH to send them over and then use ATVFiles to play them.

Once transcoded by VisualHub, I find that I can edit them with QuickTime Pro and hopefully SimpleMovieX, as well.

You can see some samples on my iDisk Public folder:

http://idisk.mac.com/MichaelLAX-Public

My wife has NO idea what I have been spending for this project!?!



dsinger: Thanks!

What pvr model should i chooes in titantv? does that website auto schedule recordings?

when ur going to burn to a disk click file then highlight "new project" and you can choose form AVCHD or DVD formats.

anybody get this working on WHS. i cant get the thing to start recording.

Ok, I see. Thanks for pointing that out because I was using AVCHD to create my projects.

What's funny is that when I make a DVD project (instead of AVCHD), I think ArcSoft TMS is re-encoding the files and doubling the total size. So I might be forced to use AVCHD after all, just to ensure that I can fit everything on a simple DVD9.

And this is only SD 480p .ts files that total 1.32GB.

I have a headache, but thanks for your help. I appreciate it. If anyone has any tips for a noob like me, please feel free to contribute.

I've been struggling to understand what you are trying to do, for a post or two; especially, "where are these SD ts's coming from?"; but I think I can guess now. Are you saying that the TS files you are working with are captured using the HDPVR from a 480p source?

Assume that is true. I may have some typos and some mistakes of my own, but I'll try to clarify as best as:

First, I'm sorry to tell you, what you have in those TS files is not SD, and it is far removed from compatible with your DVD player.

DVD player is MPEG2, limited to video data rates up to ~9.8Mbps, 480i, color gamut (range) defined in the 1950s. From a DVD player 480p is an upconvert, not a supported format.

The TS files from your HDPVR are MPEG2 transport stream on the outside, but the content is not MPEG2. Transport stream is just a thin dumb wrapper for elementary program streams such as a video stream, and in this case the video stream is H.264, that is an HD "flavor" of MPEG4.

I have done a little stream-level work but I am not an expert. Plunging on recklessly, I will say that I have read that there are transforms that can convert MPEG2 video to MPEG4 video very quickly, without decoding and re-encoding, but also (I suppose obviously) without taking advantage of the more efficient encoding possible in MPEG4. I have never heard that there is such a transform in the other direction, and I would be surprised if there was one.

So. If you tell ArcSoft that you want to take a 480p H.264 TS and put it on a DVD (something that plays in a DVD player) then it must decode it, interlace it, re-encode it as MPEG2, and arrange the video and audio streams in the very particular way that is required by the DVD Video standard (not necessarily in that order exactly).

That might be pretty quick on some recent ATI video cards if the hw support is working. In general I would expect it to be dismally slow.

I truly believe that if you want stuff to play in a DVD player you should use a DVD recorder to record it. It saves so much work and hassle. The HDPVR is for... HD. Yah, I guess it says you can make DVDs. But it also advertises three ways to make PS3 compatible output, and two don't work, and the third is really easy to go wrong at. Welcome to the thin edge of commercial viability.

HTH,

-tom-

PS I am not trying to insult you in any way here. If I did, please forgive and take what you can - I'm tired and just trying to help.

{edit}
PPS The ArcSoft supplied with the HDPVR is a custom build for Hauppage {how do I know that? I searched through the binaries with a hex editor looking for something else, and happened to see "Custom build..."}. I would expect that in addition to {striving toward} making sure it actually worked with the HDPVR, they would feel free to whack or ignore capabilities that were unrelated to it... such as making SD DVDs.

Oh.... I see. But I'm finding this hard to believe that none of the HD-PVR purchased their units with the intention of saving some files to a DVD5 disk. While I understand that saving a 15Mb encoded feed to a 4.7Gb disk won't work, I'm not certain that the outputted file(s) from this unit can only be viewed only on a PS3.

I'm puzzled, and quite a bit disappointed to think that I can't burn h264 files to DVD and view them on a regular DVD player.

But thanks for responding. I appreciate it.


I never thought you were, and I appreciate your assistance. Thanks again.

EDIT: I really should learn how to read. The Hauppauge website says that you can save these files to a standard DVD to be played on a blu-ray player. No mention of a standard DVD player.


Crap. Crappity Crap Crap Crap.

Also I find their claim of "2 hours of HD" a stretch. I can fit one hour's worth of 480p SD content recorded at 2.5M encoding (1.4Gb total) onto a DVD5, but it takes 2/3 of the DVD. Marketing lies.

I am saving everything on DVD5.


But H.264 is MPEG4, and DVD players only play a stylized version of MPEG2.

[Edit. oops. overlapped your edit. ]

For the past 3 or 4 years I have googled every two or three months for "HD component video capture". Until recently, the best choice was to commit an entire high-end PC, add several thousand dollars of specialized hardware, add several thousand dollars of specialized software, and get some value out of your MS in Comp Sci (no got? never mind!)

In my Feb search up popped the Haup HDPVR. Hala-effing-lujah! I plagued them every few weeks for the opportunity to order one. The last time they said "try again in a month" was 2 days before they started taking orders. It was more than a week before I checked again. But I got in on late wave 1.

My first unit was a fast fryer, worse than most. Max capture time about 40 seconds. For 36 hours I did every test and answered every question they had as fast as I could. Then I overnighted it back and got a replacement. Did surgery on the new unit to add heat sinks and a fan. Modded my capture software to work with it. And I have been running it regularly since then - 400GB and growing.

Why? Because I feel like it; and because I have the right, per ruling of the Supreme Court of the United States of America and per contract between content providers and the USA, to record for later personal use the programming that I receive. Whereas, Sony and the rest of the Five Clowns (5C) have been engaged in a conspiracy, involving patent pool coercion, lobbying, and whatever else, to erect technical barriers to my exercise of that right. I say, F the Five Clowns. I am not stealing their stuff. I will never redistribute what I record with the HDPVR. I will watch it later, on my schedule, not on Sony's.

The HDPVR is a groundbreaking device. The video format it outputs is weakly supported right now, but is well known to be superior. Support will improve. The community's mastery will increase, and everything will get easier.

I am quick as any to criticize the functional shortcomings of the V1 HDPVR and bundled sw. But I have not for one second considered returning it for refund.

Let's take a moment to praise Hauppauge for breaking open this new technology area. And take a deep breath, and have some patience as it matures.


PS. I have no financial or other interest in Hauppauge, the HDPVR, or any of its components or suppliers, other than as a user of their products, and such interests as may be buried in mutual fund holdings without my specific awareness.

i've been dumping a lot of 30min sd shows that my wife has on the dvr they are around 1.6 gb on average each and i got 5 of them on an dual-layer disk, i'm not sure what's going on with ur setup, i'm using the default settings for the most part on my end.

I'll second that. (and third that as well since my second and third units shipped today. Woo Hoo!)

Now as soon as Jere Jones gets his ShowAnalyzer commercial detection SW working reasonably well with the output I'll be able to replace the 3 PVR-250's I'm currently using in my Sage server.

Oh, and although I hope you guys get the editing stuff sorted out I could care less for myself. Sage records, I watch, I delete.

S

Anyone get a custom graph for zoomplayer working to play the HD-PVR .ts files? I get video but no audio using the standard "let windws decide" version.

This device has been the most frustrating technology experience I have had in recent years. I have eight Ipods, six DVHS machines, four HD displays, a high-def camcorder, an XBOX360, PS3 and more ham/shortwave equipment than any ten people. I record using CAPDVHS all the time with outstanding results. This box and the software have defeated me

I managed to extract a playable file from the BD folders made by the Hauppauge software. The PQ on my PS3 was...just okay. I used the least compression (constant) and the final PQ is noticably degraded from my 1080i DVHS master. When viewed on my 50" plasma...it is "okay" but on my PJ....it does'nt do it for me. I am meticulous in getting the best PQ I can produce...and adding even a bit of compression distracts me.

Oh well....back to DVHS

i use coreavc through vmc and windows media player to play h.264/mkv files which are even supported on the 360.

here are some links about doing it:
http://www.digital-digest.com/articl...ack_page1.html

xbox360
http://www.digital-digest.com/articl...ide_page1.html

Ah, my mistake. I was trying to dump to DVD5's, which are 4.7gb instead of the 8.5gb DVD9's. So I went to Best Buy to grab some DL DVD9's to hopefully accommodate the larger file sizes.

My mistake. But I appreciate your advice with the AVCHD vs. DVD settings.

You bring up several good points regarding the HD-PVR. I still can't believe that we're actually able to port HD video out to a PC, considering that I've only started watching anything in HD in 2002.

My frustration with the unit lies with my own expectations, and it has been a humbling learning experience along the way. I appreciate your help with my gradual understanding of the hd-pvr.

You are a genius!! The workaround you specified in post 1392 WORKS. I am currently streaming a 2 hour movie via TVersity over wired ethernet to my PS3 and getting both audio and video. Movie is about 13 GB captured at 13.5 mbps constant rate and 1080i resolution. Looks good and audio is synced properly. Regarding your question 1 above, the PS3 says the bitrate varies from ~12.8 to 14.1 and audio is listed as 2 channel LPCM with a constant bitrate of 1.5 mbps. Actually sounds pretty good when my Yamaha receivers digital sound field processing is applied. The movie is listed as mpeg 2 on the PS3 selection screen but the display during playback shows it as AVC.

The arcsoft conversion took ~ 1 hour and 15 minutes. Thanks for your help.

It's somewhat frustrating when:
1) Some units had known defective hardware and must be returned for replacement at the owners expense.
2) At least one of the included programs (MP4 Converter) on the factory CD didn't work from day one and you must use the version found on the manufactures website. And, even the new version has audio sync issues with long captures.
3) The hardware drivers on the manufactures website have already been updated twice- with some added confusion with conflicting posting dates and version numbers and lack of industry standard changelogs for each new update. Some have reportedly rolled back to the original drivers because of performance issues with the updated drivers.
4) In many cases the manufactures posted minimum computer requirements for glitch/stutter free capture were under estimated.
5) Hauppauge has admitted that the left and right channel analog audio inputs are reversed.

It's been anything but a smooth launch for the HD-PVR.

I have to disagree regarding the HD PVR PQ when the source is a SA 8300 HD STB. I did an A vs. B comparison of the HDNet 1080i resolution test patterns using PS3 playback for the HD PVR capture. It was difficult to tell the difference on a 65" 1080p Panny plasma from 1-2 feet away. The PS3 playback might have been slightly softer and therefore have slightly less resolution. However, my PS3 provides softer PQ and measurably less resolution than my Pioneer HD1 BD player. The restaurant screen on the DVE HD Basics BD that used a 4K source downresed to 1080p provides a good test. The woman appears to me to be in her late 30s on the PS3. On the HD1 she looks about 5 years older due to the appearance of more wrinkles around the eyes, on her forehead and on her throat.

The conclusion I have reached is that we early buyers are doing beta testing for them. I don't mind that if I know in advance. I did it for my Lumagen Radiance video processor but Hauppauge doesn't provide any technical support when compared to the great support you get from Lumagen. I wonder what the Hauppauge technical people were doing between the preview in January and the late May retail release!

That's exactly how I feel too!
You know, I was going to put something that in my post, but I didn't really want to pile on the negativity. The HD-PVR has lots of potential once the bugs are ironed out of the hardware and software.