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Hauppauge WinTV HD PVR (H.264) screenshot - Page 8

post #211 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Why is that, because VMC doesn't support it now? There's lots of products that are successful that VMC doesn't support. It's a bit arogant to think that a product can't succeed without VMC support.

How can it be failed, when it's exactly the product that has been asked for twice a day on this forum for the last five years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B Leisle View Post

It's really just semantics. One person's definition of failed may be very different from anothers. IMO, if a product does what it's advertised to do, it's not a failure from a customer perspective. However, if a company producing a product is predicting they'll sell X number of units and only sell 25% of their target, then that would generally be considered a failure from the manufacturer's perspective.

I would consider it a failure due to it not being able to work on the majority of systems in the market for which it is targetted. Most of the HTPC front ends are Microsoft's media centers. If the product does not work with it, then it has become a failure for most of the HTPCs.

If you create a product that only works on a Mac (for example), do not be surprised when the adoption rate is horrendously low. Sure, you can claim success from the "I only wanted to sell a very small number of these products, and I acheived that" standpoint.
post #212 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I would consider it a failure due to it not being able to work on the majority of systems in the market for which it is targetted. Most of the HTPC front ends are Microsoft's media centers. If the product does not work with it, then it has become a failure for most of the HTPCs.

VMC may have the largest install base but most of those installs are not actually running the Media Center application. Most probably don't even have a TV tuner in the machine. Of the VMC installs that ARE actually utilizing the Media Center functions, maybe half would ever get this device. I think Hauppage will see a larger customer base from non VMC users.
post #213 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

VMC may have the largest install base but most of those installs are not actually running the Media Center application. Most probably don't even have a TV tuner in the machine. Of the VMC installs that ARE actually utilizing the Media Center functions, maybe half would ever get this device. I think Hauppage will see a larger customer base from non VMC users.

I absolutely agree! VMC is 'biggest' because it's included in most flavors of the OS, not because it is the most used. In fact, I'd venture to say that compared to the collective alternatives, it (VMC) is probaby the least used among enthusiasts (which is the entire HTPC market, after all) and I'd bet it (the HD-PVR) will be VERY successful for this intended market.

-PGPfan
post #214 of 5196
I doubt Sage, GB PVR, and BeyondTV collectively have even 50% as many users as VMC/MCE, but nobody really knows for sure - it's pure speculation. And I'm not referring to just Vista Premium/Ultimate installs, I'm talking about users that actually use Media Center.

I would bet the farm anyone here that thinks Sage/GB PVR/BTV or whatever 3rd party app has more users than Media Center are themselves users of one of those 3rd party apps and having some visions of grandeur.

Bottom line, Hauppauge would sell A LOT more of these things if they are able to somehow hook it into VMC.
post #215 of 5196
:shrugs: You have your opinion and I have mine. They are only opinions. Hauppauge has a better idea of their customer base than either of us and I'm sure their prioritization of VMC support is directly related to 1) the number they believe they can sell to that market 2) the feasibility of adding VMC support and 3) the cost to benefit ratio of 1 and 2.
post #216 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I would consider it a failure due to it not being able to work on the majority of systems in the market for which it is targetted. Most of the HTPC front ends are Microsoft's media centers. If the product does not work with it, then it has become a failure for most of the HTPCs.

So by that logic, any product that doesn't work with it's markets respective "leader" is a failure?

Is OCUR a failure because it doesn't work with most Media Center PCs?

Quote:


If you create a product that only works on a Mac (for example), do not be surprised when the adoption rate is horrendously low. Sure, you can claim success from the "I only wanted to sell a very small number of these products, and I acheived that" standpoint.

So every product that only works on a Mac is a failure?

Sounds like you're just annoyed that the limitations of your chosen media center app prevent this new device from working with it out of the gate.

Meanwhile, Hauppauge will sell lots of these to happy buyers who use other software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B Leisle View Post

I doubt Sage, GB PVR, and BeyondTV collectively have even 50% as many users as VMC/MCE, but nobody really knows for sure - it's pure speculation. And I'm not referring to just Vista Premium/Ultimate installs, I'm talking about users that actually use Media Center.

I have no reason to challenge that, seems quite reasonable to me. And I don't disagree that MCE/VMC has the largest user "community".

All that said, that's a far cry from a product that doesn't work in MCE/VMC being a "failure". Is the MyHD a failure, are all those clear QAM tuners that don't work in MCE/VMC failures. Is the R5000 mod a failure?

Quote:


Bottom line, Hauppauge would sell A LOT more of these things if they are able to somehow hook it into VMC.

No disagreement. But Hauppauge will still sell a lot of these, and they'll still be a hit with the HTPC community, maybe not as much of it as it would if MCE/VMC were less limited, but it will still do well.
post #217 of 5196
Spoke with Hauppauge in the US today and they said that they would probably start shipping in a couple of weeks (even though the website is saying May 1). I'm further down the list and expect mine end of the month.
post #218 of 5196
Why is everyone saying it won't work with Vista Media Center?

I spoke to Hauppauge a few weeks ago (after reading all of these "won't work" rumors) and was assured again it will work with VMC and they strongly implied that they are working with MS to make sure it works well too. I also have an e-mail from Hauppauge from a couple of months ago where they also confirmed, in writing, that the HD-PVR will work with Vista Media Center.

We also already know that the next update to VMC is going to add h.264 support as well as support additional h.264 tuners.

As far as I'm concerned this is a done deal. It will work in the relatively near future with VMC (less than a year anyway).

I'm not so sure if it will ever work with MCE2005 and to be honest I don't expect it will (I didn't specifically ask Hauppage when talking to them).

As far as CGMS-A goes, component definitely supports it and in order for the driver to be compliant with Media Center, it will support CGMS-A. CGMS-A is carried on the Y (brightness) cable with "component video". Unfortunately I do expect this will be a continuing and significant issue for us Canadians trying to use Media Center. It will also likely be a big issue for those of you hoping to record premium content, including movie channels and pay per view. The only thing we can hope is that our STBs are not able to output CGMS-A through component, but knowing the market pressures, I wouldn't be surprised if they can and do.

FYI, the "stabilizer" (CGMS-A stripper) in the link below works with component video (as shown in the diagram). I'm not sure if it will handle high definition though (high bandwidth plus uses different lines: line 41 for 480p, line 24 for 720p, line 19 for 1080i and of course line 21 for 480i).

http://www.xdimax.com/grex/grex.html#BLK
post #219 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Slider View Post

Why is everyone saying it won't work with Vista Media Center?

I spoke to Hauppauge a few weeks ago (after reading all of these "won't work" rumors) and was assured again it will work with VMC and they strongly implied that they are working with MS to make sure it works well too. I also have an e-mail from Hauppauge from a couple of months ago where they also confirmed, in writing, that the HD-PVR will work with Vista Media Center.

We also already know that the next update to VMC is going to add h.264 support as well as support additional h.264 tuners.

As far as I'm concerned this is a done deal. It will work in the relatively near future with VMC (less than a year anyway).

I'm not so sure if it will ever work with MCE2005 and to be honest I don't expect it will (I didn't specifically ask Hauppage when talking to them).

As far as CGMS-A goes, component definitely supports it and in order for the driver to be compliant with Media Center, it will support CGMS-A. CGMS-A is carried on the Y (brightness) cable with "component video". Unfortunately I do expect this will be a continuing and significant issue for us Canadians trying to use Media Center. It will also likely be a big issue for those of you hoping to record premium content, including movie channels and pay per view. The only thing we can hope is that our STBs are not able to output CGMS-A through component, but knowing the market pressures, I wouldn't be surprised if they can and do.

FYI, the "stabilizer" (CGMS-A stripper) in the link below works with component video (as shown in the diagram). I'm not sure if it will handle high definition though (high bandwidth plus uses different lines: line 41 for 480p, line 24 for 720p, line 19 for 1080i and of course line 21 for 480i).

http://www.xdimax.com/grex/grex.html#BLK

Do you think CGMS-A will be activated prior to "official" support of VMC ? A previous post has Hauppauge saying closed captioning will not be useable in the initial releases. Secondly, if no M$FT software is used in the capture and replay process will CGMS-A still be active? All I want to do is copy some movies from my SA8300HD DVR to a USB HD attached to my PS3. Most of the movies were recorded from HBO and the copy protection screen in the Passport diagnostics menu says copy once for both HDMI and component. For component it also says "CIT" which I assume means "control in transmission" of some such horse manure. Thanks
post #220 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsinger View Post

Do you think CGMS-A will be activated prior to "official" support of VMC ? A previous post has Hauppauge saying closed captioning will not be useable in the initial releases. Secondly, if no M$FT software is used in the capture and replay process will CGMS-A still be active? All I want to do is copy some movies from my SA8300HD DVR to a USB HD attached to my PS3. Most of the movies were recorded from HBO and the copy protection screen in the Passport diagnostics menu says copy once for both HDMI and component. For component it also says "CIT" which I assume means "control in transmission" of some such horse manure. Thanks

I'm sorry but I really don't know.

If existing recording software is an indicator, there will be no CGMS-A detection without VMC.

If market pressure (content protection on HD) is an indicator, there will be CGMS-A support on everything and the Hauppauge driver might not even capture anything that is copy protected.

My current guess is 50/50 either way...
post #221 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Slider View Post

I'm sorry but I really don't know.

If existing recording software is an indicator, there will be no CGMS-A detection without VMC.

If market pressure (content protection on HD) is an indicator, there will be CGMS-A support on everything and the Hauppauge driver might not even capture anything that is copy protected.

My current guess is 50/50 either way...

Thanks. Ordered mine yesterday AM. Hopefully someone will buy one to use on Brighthouse in central FL before it ships.
post #222 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

So by that logic, any product that doesn't work with it's markets respective "leader" is a failure?

Yes, when that leader has a very large market share and the goal is to sell a lot of your product. If you cannot sell a lot of your product due to not supporting the majority of your target audience, then you have failed. Note, this is assuming it cannot work with the market leader, which we do not know for sure yet.

Quote:


Is OCUR a failure because it doesn't work with most Media Center PCs?

Yes, OCUR is a failure. What was it's goal, did it even come close to achieving that goal? Can you add OCUR to your existing system?


Quote:


So every product that only works on a Mac is a failure?

If your goal in the software market is to sell to even 50% of the installed computer user base, and you design it to only work on a Mac, then you have failed. You will get, at most about 11% of the market.

If your goal is to sell to very little of the computer user base, then designing for Mac is not a problem.

Quote:


Sounds like you're just annoyed that the limitations of your chosen media center app prevent this new device from working with it out of the gate.

Not at all. Annoyed that the product would potentially be designed and released to only work with a small subset of the community which desires such a product.

Quote:


Meanwhile, Hauppauge will sell lots of these to happy buyers who use other software.

You have a different definition of "lots" than I have. To me, "lots" does not mean "a small subset of the target market". To me, that means "not a lot".


The reason I want VMC support, other than the selfish reason of wanting one, is so that it is wildly successful. I want it to be so successful that all the other companies sit up and say "wow, we need to make one of those, too". We will then see second, maybe third generation versions. Price will drop, they will become mainstream.

If they are designed for a niche group of a niche market, they may turn into DVD-A and Laserdisc...
post #223 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT Slider View Post

Why is everyone saying it won't work with Vista Media Center?

I spoke to Hauppauge a few weeks ago (after reading all of these "won't work" rumors) and was assured again it will work with VMC and they strongly implied that they are working with MS to make sure it works well too. I also have an e-mail from Hauppauge from a couple of months ago where they also confirmed, in writing, that the HD-PVR will work with Vista Media Center.

We also already know that the next update to VMC is going to add h.264 support as well as support additional h.264 tuners.

As far as I'm concerned this is a done deal. It will work in the relatively near future with VMC (less than a year anyway).

I'm not so sure if it will ever work with MCE2005 and to be honest I don't expect it will (I didn't specifically ask Hauppage when talking to them).

As far as CGMS-A goes, component definitely supports it and in order for the driver to be compliant with Media Center, it will support CGMS-A. CGMS-A is carried on the Y (brightness) cable with "component video". Unfortunately I do expect this will be a continuing and significant issue for us Canadians trying to use Media Center. It will also likely be a big issue for those of you hoping to record premium content, including movie channels and pay per view. The only thing we can hope is that our STBs are not able to output CGMS-A through component, but knowing the market pressures, I wouldn't be surprised if they can and do.

FYI, the "stabilizer" (CGMS-A stripper) in the link below works with component video (as shown in the diagram). I'm not sure if it will handle high definition though (high bandwidth plus uses different lines: line 41 for 480p, line 24 for 720p, line 19 for 1080i and of course line 21 for 480i).

http://www.xdimax.com/grex/grex.html#BLK

If it does not allow time shifting or saving a show to watch later, then it does not work. At least that is how I view it...it removes the main reason for having a HTPC.

I do hope it does work, though, for I want it to succeed.
post #224 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Note, this is assuming it cannot work with the market leader, which we do not know for sure yet.

Yes we do. It cannot work with VMC in VMC's current state. The DVR-MS container does not support H.264. Until it does, or VMC supports recording to another container, it will not work.
post #225 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

Yes we do. It cannot work with VMC in VMC's current state. The DVR-MS container does not support H.264. Until it does, or VMC supports recording to another container, it will not work.

The product does not currently work with ANY front end...seeing as you cannot buy it yet.

I am talking about working with VMC after it is released for purchase. Seeing as it has been pushed back many times, MS could easily have the H.264 update released prior to the Hauppage being released.


EDIT: Hauppage says they have started shipping to the first 2000 purchasers. On the various sites talking about this device, not a single person is in that first 2000. It is supposed to ship mid May to everyone else...we shall see.
post #226 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Yes, when that leader has a very large market share and the goal is to sell a lot of your product. If you cannot sell a lot of your product due to not supporting the majority of your target audience, then you have failed. Note, this is assuming it cannot work with the market leader, which we do not know for sure yet.

If that was the only recipie for success, there would be no niche products. Kaleidescape must be a failure because it's only 0.001% of the home media market.

Quote:


Yes, OCUR is a failure. What was it's goal, did it even come close to achieving that goal? Can you add OCUR to your existing system?

That's my point, but surely it was designed, built, and sold with the knowledge that it would only be available for prebuilt systems, that it's "target market" would be OEM systems. Thus the only way to measure if it's a failure or not, is is it being used on many OEM media center systems.

Quote:


If your goal in the software market is to sell to even 50% of the installed computer user base, and you design it to only work on a Mac, then you have failed. You will get, at most about 11% of the market.

If your goal is to sell to very little of the computer user base, then designing for Mac is not a problem.

Then why is there Mac only software? Apparently everyone who makes products that can only serve a small portion of the market are crazy because the best they can hope for is for their products to be "failures". Guess Firefox is a failure, AMD, ATI, Sun...

Quote:


Not at all. Annoyed that the product would potentially be designed and released to only work with a small subset of the community which desires such a product.

As noted previously, the problem is with Media Center and it's inability to handle H.264, not Hauppauge. Every other PVR software out there is eagerly working to add support for this. Hauppauge hasn't done anything to prevent it from working in VMC.

Quote:


You have a different definition of "lots" than I have. To me, "lots" does not mean "a small subset of the target market". To me, that means "not a lot".

Obviously. However I think most people just the "success" of a product by if it performs as it's supposed to and sells enough to make a profit. You seem to think that if something isn't "wildly successfull" it's a failure. I think this will easilly sell enough to make a profit, and thus will be successfull. Obviously Hauppauge does too, or they wouldn't bother releasing it.

You definitely have a different view of "success" than 90%+ of companies/entrepreneurs as most products fall far short of your definition of success, and people don't usually knowingly sell things they know will fail.

Quote:


The reason I want VMC support, other than the selfish reason of wanting one, is so that it is wildly successful. I want it to be so successful that all the other companies sit up and say "wow, we need to make one of those, too". We will then see second, maybe third generation versions. Price will drop, they will become mainstream.

No disagreement here.

Quote:


If they are designed for a niche group of a niche market, they may turn into DVD-A and Laserdisc...

Laserdisc was definitely a success, 44,000+ titles, had a lifespand of 22 years. It only retired when it was replaced by something superior, DVD.

DVD-A/SACD on the other hand were clearly failures as they've sold miserably and basically died off due to stagnation.
post #227 of 5196
My guess is that Hauppage knows MS will add the support needed to allow this product to work with VMC.

Sorry for dragging OT, back to the discussion about how we think the product might work.
post #228 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

The product does not currently work with ANY front end...seeing as you cannot buy it yet.

Actually, it already works with GBPVR. It has for a couple of months now.

Hmm... first 2000? I wonder how many prerelease orders they got.
post #229 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

Actually, it already works with GBPVR. It has for a couple of months now.

Already works as in "I assume it works, though it is impossible to know because only an engineering sample was tested and not a retail device".

I assume it will work too, since the engineering samples work. Cannot know until the retail devices are actually tested. Engineering samples and retail devices are sometimes very different beasts.


Quote:


Hmm... first 2000? I wonder how many prerelease orders they got.


Well, the first 2000 appear to be non-existant orders, to provide the impression they are shipping already. I say this because no one in any of the communities I have searched actually made the first 2000 group...and some actually placed their order with an hour of it being available for purchase.

It appears to be around 1500 or so pre-orders. Many of which will be sent back, if the pre-order trend for other products is used here as well.

I do hope it is wildly popular, I honestly do. That provides money and incentive to make it better, etc.
post #230 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I do hope it is wildly popular, I honestly do.

You'd never know it from your posts. Have anything constructive to add to the thread, or are you just here to spread FUD about this exciting new product?
post #231 of 5196
What's the GUI look like on the TV or PC also what about the other model WinTV-HVR-1950? Have they change GUI on both? So I take it that you record to your PC on both?
post #232 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Already works as in "I assume it works, though it is impossible to know because only an engineering sample was tested and not a retail device".

That would be a fairly good assumption. The developer has a good working relationship with Hauppauge and I'm fairly certain they would have informed him if anything had changed that would break his code.

The beautiful part is that if something has changed, the API is in place that I can add my own support for it like I did with the HDHomeRun. IF it doesn't work when I get it, it will two days later.
post #233 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipstir View Post

What's the GUI look like on the TV or PC also what about the other model WinTV-HVR-1950? Have they change GUI on both? So I take it that you record to your PC on both?

No one knows yet, but like with most of their products, most users will probably use their front end of choice like GBPVR, BTV, Sage, etc.

This is an entirely different beast from the 1950. This is a component capture device, not a tuner. But yes, you can record to the PC.
post #234 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

You'd never know it from your posts. Have anything constructive to add to the thread, or are you just here to spread FUD about this exciting new product?

I think your anti-microsoft sentiments are getting in the way of your reading comprehension.

Why do I want it to work with MS? Easy, re-read post 222 and 223 and you will have your answer.

But since reading comprehension is not your forte, I will restate it for you:

The reason I want VMC support is so that it is wildly successful. This will cause competition to emerge, better products to be created, and prices to drop.

You might like high priced, niche products with no competition or improvements. I do not. I suppose that is the the major difference between our views.
post #235 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd View Post

That would be a fairly good assumption. The developer has a good working relationship with Hauppauge and I'm fairly certain they would have informed him if anything had changed that would break his code.

The beautiful part is that if something has changed, the API is in place that I can add my own support for it like I did with the HDHomeRun. IF it doesn't work when I get it, it will two days later.

Absolutely. I am glad they have such a good working relationship, it is very important.

That support will help make MS wake up and provide more support to Hauppage as well.

Competition is good.
post #236 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

I think your anti-microsoft sentiments are getting in the way of your reading comprehension.

I have no anti-microsoft sentiments (well maybe not "none" ). MCE is a great app/system/program, I've got an Xbox 360 and love it. I'd use VMC if it met my needs but it doesn't. My stance on MCE/VMC is that MS made compromises that make their product not meet my needs/wants/desires (no DVD playback on extenders, limited format support, DRM, no PC client, limited tuners, etc). They're perfectly valid choices for MS to have made, and I can completely understand and respect them for making them (if you look, you'll see I've defended MS for their inclusion for various forms of DRM).

For the record I think MCE was great for the HTPC scene if for no other reason than they created a "standard" for hardware/driver interfaces that has allowed a whole ecosystem of apps to appear.

The only thing I have a problem with from your comments is your assertion that the HD PVR is failed/will fail because it doesn't work with MCE/VMC today (or at launch). Almost every post in this thread by you has been highly negative on the HD PVR, "another failed product" etc. It's the first product of it's kind, it does exactly what hundreds of posts here have been asking for for years. This thing is a godsend for the HTPC community "freeing" HD content to be recorded without expensive or highly limited solutions.

Quote:


Why do I want it to work with MS? Easy, re-read post 222 and 223 and you will have your answer.

Frankly I think it would be great if it worked with MCE/VMC, I hope MS updates MCE/VMC to support it. I don't think it needs to be supported my MCE/VMC to be successful.

Quote:


But since reading comprehension is not your forte, I will restate it for you:

The reason I want VMC support is so that it is wildly successful. This will cause competition to emerge, better products to be created, and prices to drop.

Sounds great, but that doesn't mean it's failed already.

Quote:


You might like high priced, niche products with no competition or improvements. I do not.

Where do you get that idea? Because I don't think this thing is failed without MCE/VMC support?

For starters, it's NOT high priced, in fact, it's exactly the same price as the first hardware-encoding SD tuner card to be made available to consumers, the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR PCI, was when it came out 7 years ago. It's about 30-50% less than the Blackmagic Intesity Pro, but adds hardware encoding and dramatically better application support. It's about 1/3 the price of an R5000 modded sat box, again with better app support and service provider support. And it's way more compatible than OCUR is, about the same price but without the need for a "certified" PC, and without the DRM restrictions.

No it's not as cheap as the current SD hardware encoders, but why would anyone expect the first HD encoder to be so.

There are a lot of parallels between the HD PVR and the WinTV-PVR PCI:

Made my Hauppauge
First device of their kind (hardware encoding PVR device, SD/HD respectively)
$249 pricetag
"limited" application support initially

The WinTV-PVR PCI certainly didn't sell the kind of numbers that say the PVR 250 did, but it was definitely a successful product. The PVR PCI came out before there was a Media Center Edition, it only worked with it's own app initially. Yet it basically layed the groundwork for MCE (hardware encoding tuners) and in many ways the whole HTPC environment that we know today. Yet by the criteria you've layed out in this thread, the WinTV-PVR PCI was failed before it shipped.

The situation with the HD PVR is far better than for the PVR PCI. It will have wide application support (Arcsoft, SageTV, BeyondTV, GB-PVR, and probably more I'm forgetting), the target market, even without MCE/VMC is far larger today than it was seven years ago when the PVR PCI came out.

Quote:


I suppose that is the the major difference between our views.

The major difference in our views is that I don't consider a product "failed" just because it's not supported by the market leader, that I think the HD PVR is a huge step forward and will be a success regardless of MCE/VMC support, and I suppose that I expect that the HD PVR will do everything you hope it will.
post #237 of 5196
Hauppage made the hardware and made drivers for several OS's including Vista. They provide basic application support with a limited A/V SW Suite. Support for any new piece of hardware in your favorite 3rd party app is up to the 3rd party app developer. Sage, GBPVR, Snapstream are apparently working with Hauppage to add support in their respective products. MS is free to do so as well but can also choose not to. Point is it's not really Hauppage's responsibility even if it is to their advantage and Microsofts choice to add or not add support is not the be all / end all measure of success for any piece of hardware. Yet (or should that be )

S
post #238 of 5196
I am confused at the people saying that they will not buy this product if it does not support mce. Is there another product out there at this price point that captures HD component in real time h.264? If so does it support mce? Let's face it there is only a very small percentage of people out there that are able to understand what this box can do. Of those only a small percentage will feel that mce support is a deal breaker. This box is not even ment for the general public. You have been able to pre-order the Wii Fit for months now. Where besides Hauppauge can you pre-order this? If you can hit record on the software and stop later on and this box records the HD signal in great quality most early adopters will be thrilled.
post #239 of 5196
Who cares if it doesn't have official MS support on day one... there are so many work arounds it's silly to argue about, let alone terribly un-imaginative.

MS support will not keep me from using this device with VMC, or MCE for that matter. I never watch live TV anyways. The simple expediency of another shared folder in Pictures + Videos or in My Videos, and viola!

And look around... we are a niche market. I would doubt, seriously doubt, that much more the 10% of Americans even have a clue as to the fact that you can record TV on a PC, and most of that 10% wonder why you want to watch TV on a computer (are they even aware every new flat panel comes with 3, if not 4, ways to connect a PC). You could argue that VMC comes on every new Home Premium and Ultimate sale, and I would say that much beyond IE, Mail and maybe Solitaire, most people don't have a clue as to what's on their machines, just as long as they can get to youtube and MySpace.

No one has even seen the HD PVR in the wild, and yet two sides are forming over... what? Over what? You got Rose-Colered-Glasses" on one side and "Profits-Of-Doom" on the other. Get a grip. This ain't like the cable-card fiasco, when MS on Day One delt out the vast majority of the only people who even knew of the existence of MCE. There was maybe 1 to 2 percent of American households that knew of and could take advantage of CableCard for PC's, and MS told them to fork up a couple of grand or frak-off!

Given that Hauppage is preparing to ship the first 2000 of these, which are basically being sold sight unseen, untested and untried to a "niche" community, MS has been told to take their Cablecards and FRAK OFF!!!
post #240 of 5196
Having MCE on your PC doesn't mean the HD-PVR won't work. Even if Media Center had h264 support, it has other limitations that would make it a less than desirable front end.

Inability to use multiple inputs: In the modern era, you should be able to select an analog cable tuner, a digital OTA tuner, line input for set-top-boxes/VCRs/DVRs/Game Systems, and now USB input. (not to mention more than just one or two tuners or Clear QAM) If the HTPC is going to be a true media center, then it needs to support (record/view) more than one source of video. If you only have a single source then the HD-PVR isn't the best choice. You're going to get real tired of letterboxed and windowboxed images because of mis-flagged or converted transmissions.

DRM: Lets face it, Microsoft is committed to working with the content owners and carriers to honor their IP rights. Oftentimes they get it wrong, but they feel they are doing it to be able to provide content that would be denied the HTPC user completely, otherwise. If they do get it wrong, then it's our right to work around their limitations but not their obligation to correct the wrong. In my personal opinion, CGMS-A almost always gets it wrong with regards to "fair Use" of content that you have lawfully received or subscribed to, but they have a different opinion and legal procedings to determine the correct opinion are not likely to occur.
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