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Hauppauge WinTV HD PVR (H.264) screenshot - Page 2

post #31 of 5196
Wouldn't something like a TivoHD with their Tivo to Go support be better?
post #32 of 5196
Those modded cable boxes that allow direct digital capturing are the best, but too expensive IMO
post #33 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post

Yes it has been delayed to May -June


Good then this 15-2146 will work with this unit for a remote as I am using 7x of these right now with 7x MediaMVP.


What will the GUI look like SHS?
post #34 of 5196
Wow this will be a HD pvr wonder how much it's going to set me back for 7x ouch!
post #35 of 5196
Thread Starter 
cybrsage as far I know of XP/Vista Media Center is not going to be supported any time soon so there for you have look at 3rdparty like SageTV and BeyondTV or used Bundled software that come with HD PVR.

sodaboy581 yes that what Loop through or Pass through is for give you a RealTime Analog Feed

tsb why did you say very unimpressive?

tipstir the GUI TotalMediaExtreme or WinTV
post #36 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post

cybrsage as far I know of XP/Vista Media Center is not going to be supported any time soon so there for you have look at 3rdparty like SageTV and BeyondTV or used Bundled software that come with HD PVR.

Then it is worthless to me. Oh well, I had high hopes for the product.

This is too bad, for I am sure most HTPC users are using the VMC or MCE2005 front end.
post #37 of 5196
Too bad they couldnt encode to something like VC1 instead, this would be nice to use as an analog tuner with a STB so people with cable and switched digital could ahve a 3rd HD tuner that shows up as analog and accesses all the channels.
post #38 of 5196
Looks good to me, this is what I've been waiting for. It's interesting that it includes Arcsoft TotalMedia Exreme, TotalMedia Theatre and MediaConverter, probably very limited editions, but even so...
post #39 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expletive View Post

Too bad they couldnt encode to something like VC1 instead, this would be nice to use as an analog tuner with a STB so people with cable and switched digital could ahve a 3rd HD tuner that shows up as analog and accesses all the channels.

The HD PVR doesn't have any tuners in it at all - analog or digital.
H.264 tends to have better compression than VC1, so I welcome the H.264 on the HD PVR.

Marc
post #40 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Then it is worthless to me.

OMG!! The drama of it all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Oh well, I had high hopes for the product.

This is too bad, for I am sure most HTPC users are using the VMC or MCE2005 front end.

How exactly have your hopes been dashed by this product?

Seems to me, if any products have dashed anyones hopes, its VMC.

We were teased for two years about cable card, and when it finally comes out, what a fraking disaster. And now...

Satellite (well, DirecTv) support is coming, but god only knows what sort of caveats will go with that introduction! Remember, it was only a couple of months before cable card came out that the OEM requirements where laid out and sent everyone into fits. Even in those first few months everyone was telling themselves (wishful thinking) that MS would let DIY's do it in about a year. Well....

No support for Mpeg4, either ASP

or AVC! Support is coming, but what strings will be attached? Will it only be for DirecTV? Will it only be for DirecTV and SDV equipped (?) cablecard rigs? Mpeg4 support may be coming, but there are so many unanswered questions that for what most people want (again, wishful thinking) it may be a big disappointment.

Where is QAM support? Is it

really in Fiji (again, wishful thinking), or will the usual suspects coming running into the forums with the usually Hollywood conspiracy theories when we are again let down?

Why no guide info for ATSC sub channels?


Don't get wrong. I like VMC and MCE. I've got one of each. But it's starting to feel like an abusive relationship... I'm not getting what I want, and I get lot's of increasingly implausible stories and finger pointing as to why I can't get what I want! And if I or anyone else ever speak up about the shortfalls of Media Center, MS shills will come running in after me telling everyone what an a*hole I am for wanting something MS can't (or just won't) deliver!

And then you look at other apps that do Mpeg4, that do QAM, and, with the HD PVR, will also do satellite (both) and full on digital cable!

I like Media Center, but I am increasinly asking myself- Why?
post #41 of 5196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Expletive View Post

Too bad they couldnt encode to something like VC1 instead, this would be nice to use as an analog tuner with a STB so people with cable and switched digital could ahve a 3rd HD tuner that shows up as analog and accesses all the channels.

That not going to happing the Ambarella encoder chip when only support H.264 and as I unstand it a VC-1 encoder chip are very high cost.
post #42 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankinla View Post

How exactly have your hopes been dashed by this product?

Seems to me, if any products have dashed anyones hopes, its VMC.

We were teased for two years about cable card, and when it finally comes out, what a fraking disaster. And now...

Satellite (well, DirecTv) support is coming, but god only knows what sort of caveats will go with that introduction! Remember, it was only a couple of months before cable card came out that the OEM requirements where laid out and sent everyone into fits. Even in those first few months everyone was telling themselves (wishful thinking) that MS would let DIY's do it in about a year. Well....

No support for Mpeg4, either ASP

or AVC! Support is coming, but what strings will be attached? Will it only be for DirecTV? Will it only be for DirecTV and SDV equipped (?) cablecard rigs? Mpeg4 support may be coming, but there are so many unanswered questions that for what most people want (again, wishful thinking) it may be a big disappointment.

Where is QAM support? Is it

really in Fiji (again, wishful thinking), or will the usual suspects coming running into the forums with the usually Hollywood conspiracy theories when we are again let down?

Why no guide info for ATSC sub channels?


Don't get wrong. I like VMC and MCE. I've got one of each. But it's starting to feel like an abusive relationship... I'm not getting what I want, and I get lot's of increasingly implausible stories and finger pointing as to why I can't get what I want! And if I or anyone else ever speak up about the shortfalls of Media Center, MS shills will come running in after me telling everyone what an a*hole I am for wanting something MS can't (or just won't) deliver!

And then you look at other apps that do Mpeg4, that do QAM, and, with the HD PVR, will also do satellite (both) and full on digital cable!

I like Media Center, but I am increasinly asking myself- Why?

Dang, very well said.

My dreams are soon to be realized with this product...
post #43 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post

tsb why did you say very unimpressive?


I'm hoping my terminology is correct here. I noticed lots of distracting ringing that I'm just not used to seeing from HD sources. I know an object moving across white snow is probably the worst case scenario, but I feel the encoding quality needs to be greatly improved. These artifacts are surely deficiencies in the encoder since 13.5mbps should be enough for most HDTV sources. It would be nice if higher bitrates were allowed to take some strain off the encoder. Perhaps a higher end model with a better encoder and higher max bitrates is coming?
post #44 of 5196
I dont get it - why do you want one?

Hi Def DVD's can be ripped to a PC

Hi Def PVR's are available with a hi def tuner built in (and you can transfer the recording to your PC)

What other source is there that is high def that you cant record the digital stream and that you would need this box for. From what I saw it had no tuner built in and no HDMI. Even as a playback device it should have HDMI.

Besides my LG TV does all that (Maybe not to H.264) - records any input onto the internal hard drive.

This box is nothing special at all. Dream multimedia have a HD PVR for Sat (DVBs) and probably DVBt, Topfield have a HD PVR for TV (OTA), Beyonwiz have a networkable HD twin tuner PVR that is also a media center (and I think its H.264 as well).

Definitely nothing special from where I sit. Buy a box that record the in-coming stream, not an outgoing signal that has been degraded by cheap D/A converters.

Mick
post #45 of 5196
You might want to spend some more time on this forum to understand the value of this product. There really isnt anything like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by znelbok View Post

I dont get it - why do you want one?

Hi Def DVD's can be ripped to a PC

Hi Def PVR's are available with a hi def tuner built in (and you can transfer the recording to your PC)

What other source is there that is high def that you cant record the digital stream and that you would need this box for. From what I saw it had no tuner built in and no HDMI. Even as a playback device it should have HDMI.

Besides my LG TV does all that (Maybe not to H.264) - records any input onto the internal hard drive.

This box is nothing special at all. Dream multimedia have a HD PVR for Sat (DVBs) and probably DVBt, Topfield have a HD PVR for TV (OTA), Beyonwiz have a networkable HD twin tuner PVR that is also a media center (and I think its H.264 as well).

Definitely nothing special from where I sit. Buy a box that record the in-coming stream, not an outgoing signal that has been degraded by cheap D/A converters.

Mick
post #46 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by znelbok View Post

I dont get it - why do you want one?

Hi Def DVD's can be ripped to a PC

Hi Def PVR's are available with a hi def tuner built in (and you can transfer the recording to your PC)

What other source is there that is high def that you cant record the digital stream and that you would need this box for. From what I saw it had no tuner built in and no HDMI. Even as a playback device it should have HDMI.

It's not a playback device. It is a capture device for capturing analog (component) HD video. If it had an HDMI input, it would be HDCP protected thereby limiting what could be recorded. With component input, it will allow you to record ANYTHING that is viewable from your STB including premium content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by znelbok View Post

Besides my LG TV does all that (Maybe not to H.264) - records any input onto the internal hard drive.

That's all well and good if you have the LG with the internal hardrive. For those of us who don't...

Quote:
Originally Posted by znelbok View Post

This box is nothing special at all. Dream multimedia have a HD PVR for Sat (DVBs) and probably DVBt, Topfield have a HD PVR for TV (OTA), Beyonwiz have a networkable HD twin tuner PVR that is also a media center (and I think its H.264 as well).

This box is not a Media Center. It is simply a capture device that can be used by the PVR software of your choice provided they support it:
MythTV
SageTV
BeyondTV
GBPVR (already supports the device)
Media Portal
VMC (unlikely to ever add support natively but a third party or Hauppage may do it)
JRiver Media Center

these are just a few of the possible options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by znelbok View Post

Definitely nothing special from where I sit. Buy a box that record the in-coming stream, not an outgoing signal that has been degraded by cheap D/A converters.

Mick

Well for people with HDTV cable boxes that would like the ability to record ALL content to our HTPC systems, this is special. Couple this with an HD STP from your local cable company and you have an OCUR for DIYers without the DRM restrictions.

The only thing even close to the possibilities this provides is the setup mkanet has with the RD5000 mod. This opens up his possibilites to those of us not using SageTV or that can't/won't mod our cable boxes.
post #47 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHS View Post

That not going to happing the Ambarella encoder chip when only support H.264 and as I unstand it a VC-1 encoder chip are very high cost.

I'd be interested to know where that impression comes from. I'm not saying that it is incorrect, but If VC-1 chips are more expensive it is only because of one of two things: lack of competition for encoder chips (maybe there are only one or two sources), or low volume. Or I suppose it could be both. The actual design cost should be comparable to H.264.

Marc
post #48 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrandtx View Post

I'd be interested to know where that impression comes from. I'm not saying that it is incorrect, but If VC-1 chips are more expensive it is only because of one of two things: lack of competition for encoder chips (maybe there are only one or two sources), or low volume. Or I suppose it could be both. The actual design cost should be comparable to H.264.

Marc

If noone makes a chip, there is no volume... Most of these chips have been designed for HD camcorders and adapted for the TV encoder market. Our community is very small volume wise, so stuff for us is always adapted from other arenas.

I am cracking up over all you guys who say that it's completely useless unless it supports the Microsoft brand of tripe they market as a PVR. Let's face it, VMC and MCE are decent media centers, but they suck at TV, and especially PVR compared to almost all the alternatives.

Power users who really want the ultimate in PVR systems do not run VMC or the like, they run SageTV or other systems that give you far more flexibility. Before you say Sage etc... isn't the mass market, you should understand that only about 40,000 cablecard VMC systems have been sold, at least as of the end of 2007. This is hardly a mass market either.

You know what the major use of VMC is, the part of VMC that is most used by users? Photo viewing. Most people who run a version of Vista with VMC in it never add a tuner, never watch TV, but sometimes playback regular old DVD's. This whole product is a joke and fiasco, and now you assert that any hardware product that does support is useless? What a crock.

The issue in any case is the lack of functionality that MCE/VMC has, not hauppauge's driver support. If VMC doesn't handle h.264, do you really expect Hauppauge to revamp the core architecture of VMC to do?

But don't worry about Hauppauge, there are enough users of other PVR products that will make good use of it. We'll be enjoying HD recordings in a network environment with extenders that work, and placeshifting builtin with commercial detection and skip, and burning shows to DVD, and all the other things we do for the next year or two while you continue to wait on MSFT to catch up to what others have had a for a long time. Hope you enjoy the wait. :-)

PS I also have an R5000-HD in use with SageTV for almost a year, and I have enjoyed recording premium HD with no restrictions for that year greatly... There is even more than one way to skin this cat, at least if you don't use MSFT technology.
post #49 of 5196
Looks great. I'm still waiting on the Hauppauge 2250 card. I think it will be released in June.
post #50 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsb View Post

I'm hoping my terminology is correct here. I noticed lots of distracting ringing that I'm just not used to seeing from HD sources. I know an object moving across white snow is probably the worst case scenario, but I feel the encoding quality needs to be greatly improved. These artifacts are surely deficiencies in the encoder since 13.5mbps should be enough for most HDTV sources. It would be nice if higher bitrates were allowed to take some strain off the encoder. Perhaps a higher end model with a better encoder and higher max bitrates is coming?

Keep in mind that there are various bitrate options and I believe this recording was well below the 13.5 Mbps max. I noticed the same ringing though in that clip and wasn't impressed either.
post #51 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

If noone makes a chip, there is no volume... Most of these chips have been designed for HD camcorders and adapted for the TV encoder market. Our community is very small volume wise, so stuff for us is always adapted from other arenas.

I am cracking up over all you guys who say that it's completely useless unless it supports the Microsoft brand of tripe they market as a PVR. Let's face it, VMC and MCE are decent media centers, but they suck at TV, and especially PVR compared to almost all the alternatives.

Power users who really want the ultimate in PVR systems do not run VMC or the like, they run SageTV or other systems that give you far more flexibility. Before you say Sage etc... isn't the mass market, you should understand that only about 40,000 cablecard VMC systems have been sold, at least as of the end of 2007. This is hardly a mass market either.

You know what the major use of VMC is, the part of VMC that is most used by users? Photo viewing. Most people who run a version of Vista with VMC in it never add a tuner, never watch TV, but sometimes playback regular old DVD's. This whole product is a joke and fiasco, and now you assert that any hardware product that does support is useless? What a crock.

The issue in any case is the lack of functionality that MCE/VMC has, not hauppauge's driver support. If VMC doesn't handle h.264, do you really expect Hauppauge to revamp the core architecture of VMC to do?

But don't worry about Hauppauge, there are enough users of other PVR products that will make good use of it. We'll be enjoying HD recordings in a network environment with extenders that work, and placeshifting builtin with commercial detection and skip, and burning shows to DVD, and all the other things we do for the next year or two while you continue to wait on MSFT to catch up to what others have had a for a long time. Hope you enjoy the wait. :-)

PS I also have an R5000-HD in use with SageTV for almost a year, and I have enjoyed recording premium HD with no restrictions for that year greatly... There is even more than one way to skin this cat, at least if you don't use MSFT technology.

Quick question for you. I tried to run the SageTV trial and get a java error which closes the program every time. Any ideas?
post #52 of 5196
which version of java are you on?
post #53 of 5196
Java 6 Update 5, the latest according to the sun site

when I try to start SageTV is says Java.Lang.Null Exception or something like that and closes
post #54 of 5196
Thread Starter 
Make sure you uninstall all multiple java versions sometime this can be a problem
Start here
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29135
Read This on enable debug logging
If there no sage.properties file make one and line needed
http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/show...076#post149076

Use there Forum and post all your system info
post #55 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSM View Post

I am cracking up over all you guys who say that it's completely useless unless it supports the Microsoft brand of tripe they market as a PVR. Let's face it, VMC and MCE are decent media centers, but they suck at TV, and especially PVR compared to almost all the alternatives.

Power users who really want the ultimate in PVR systems do not run VMC or the like, they run SageTV or other systems that give you far more flexibility. Before you say Sage etc... isn't the mass market, you should understand that only about 40,000 cablecard VMC systems have been sold, at least as of the end of 2007. This is hardly a mass market either.

You know what the major use of VMC is, the part of VMC that is most used by users? Photo viewing. Most people who run a version of Vista with VMC in it never add a tuner, never watch TV, but sometimes playback regular old DVD's. This whole product is a joke and fiasco, and now you assert that any hardware product that does support is useless? What a crock.

The issue in any case is the lack of functionality that MCE/VMC has, not hauppauge's driver support. If VMC doesn't handle h.264, do you really expect Hauppauge to revamp the core architecture of VMC to do?

Wow!!! I'm not a huge MS fan either, but I just can't quite get behind some of the items you state as facts. I suppose, though, if you factor in of all those who buys Vista Home Premium, only a small fraction use the Media Center functions, I would agree. Yet, I would venture a guess that VMC and MCE make up the majority of the market out there. And if that is the case, wouldn't a company coming out with a product such as this try to make their product function for the core base?

But... let's not list Hauppauge as a great deliverer of fine products either. Have you ever owned a PVR150? Is that the best that they can come up with? And, their companion program, WinTV? And the drivers that they deliver in support of their product to work with MCE, VMC? OMG. Of course, I could take on practically any company that has delved into the media arena and rake them over the coals. It really is a mish mash of fine ideas that are poorly executed, except for the very core of what their product is suppose to do.

Sorry for the rant, and I totally agree that VMC/MCE should be a far supperior product than what it is today, especially with the unbelievable potential that MS wields. It's time for MS (and Hauppauge) to stop picking their noses and start adding the full featured functionality in their products that they should have.
post #56 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankinla View Post

OMG!! The drama of it all!



How exactly have your hopes been dashed by this product?



Don't get wrong. I like VMC and MCE. I've got one of each. But it's starting to feel like an abusive relationship... I'm not getting what I want, and I get lot's of increasingly implausible stories and finger pointing as to why I can't get what I want! And if I or anyone else ever speak up about the shortfalls of Media Center, MS shills will come running in after me telling everyone what an a*hole I am for wanting something MS can't (or just won't) deliver!

And then you look at other apps that do Mpeg4, that do QAM, and, with the HD PVR, will also do satellite (both) and full on digital cable!

I like Media Center, but I am increasinly asking myself- Why?

You are acting like VMC is not the most widely used Media Center front end. You are also acting like Microsoft is not the most dominant OS maker on the plant (for home users, of course).

VMC and MCE2005 are the dominant front ends...especially since VMC is built into many people's OS. If they purposefully release a product which does not integrate with the dominant front end, they should expect many people to decide not to purchase it.

Ease of use is key. The easier it is to use, the more it integrates with what most people have, the more likely it is to be a success.

It is like making things only for the Macintosh...sure, it can be done, but expect FAR less people to buy it than otherwise would.

So, if I cannot make this so easy my wife can just pickup the Microsoft remote and use it like the rest of VMC, then it is worthless to me...and everyone else who uses VMC and wants a high WAF.
post #57 of 5196
Will this Hauppauge unit allow me to watch TV on my computer in a window instead of having to switch between my Directv box and my computer?
post #58 of 5196
Thread Starter 
Ok I got word that pre-order will be sometime Monday
post #59 of 5196
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

You are acting like VMC is not the most widely used Media Center front end. You are also acting like Microsoft is not the most dominant OS maker on the plant (for home users, of course).

VMC and MCE2005 are the dominant front ends...especially since VMC is built into many people's OS. If they purposefully release a product which does not integrate with the dominant front end, they should expect many people to decide not to purchase it.

Ease of use is key. The easier it is to use, the more it integrates with what most people have, the more likely it is to be a success.

It is like making things only for the Macintosh...sure, it can be done, but expect FAR less people to buy it than otherwise would.

So, if I cannot make this so easy my wife can just pickup the Microsoft remote and use it like the rest of VMC, then it is worthless to me...and everyone else who uses VMC and wants a high WAF.



I wasn't acting.. I was typing... And as to what I was typing, I acknowledged Media Centers dominant position in the space, ergo, I have 2 of them. The reason I have 2 Media Centers and no Sage or Btv or even LMCE, is the fact that it is the easiest and most reliable that I had tried. However, that reasoning is based on testing I did several years back with an old AthlonXP 2500+ with an AIW9600 Radeon and a TV Wonder card (later a hauppage card), not an ideal setup as neither card had h/w encoding. At that time, Recording TV was kinda just a hobby, as you could never be sure if the scheduler worked, the encoder didn't crash the system, or even if the system would wake up from sleep.

The moment MCE2005 became avialable, I jumped at it. Further, since it required am h/w encoding card, I got one of of those, too. I got an NVidia Dual NVTV, which was a good (and expensive) card back then, but was made exclusively for MCE. And then, since I was leary about mixing ATI and NVidia drivers, I wanted a new graphics card, but all the newer cards where pcie and so that meant getting a new motherboard..... Long story short, I wound up building a new system specifically around MCE. And I gotta say it was slick. And rock solid! Soon, I was unable to watch tv without a guide, I had almost forgotten what commercials where like, and I couldn't imagine scheduling my life around a program... instead I would just record it and watch it when I had the chance. MCE2005 Changed the way I watched TV. It was like going from a junk car to a new car. I loved it, and was no longer envious of Tivo's. I had even put a few together for some other people.

But time moves on. The original reasoning for moving to MCE is no longer valid. Sage has come a long way, and even has extenders. Beyond TV has gotten better (nuff said), and the linux variants have seamed to come along way as well, but I really havent dabled in that for a long, long time. At the same time Windows MC has not, a least not for the DIY crowd.

No one is saying that QAM is easy at this point (though I don't know why it's so hard), but there is nothing stopping MS from releasing it as a "power toy", like they have done with other software.

Firewire capture has been around for a while, and yet MS has never allowed it. Sure it may be tricky, but why not let it out even as a unsupported power toy?

Component capture, although at 480p, has been around almost as long as there was Firewire. ADS Tech had had a unit out for a long time, yet no support form MS.

And the WAF is a terribly lame excuse. No one is saying you HAVE TO implement features that are buggy or incomplete. I could implement QAM right now with My 2 AverMedia M780's, but after reading whats going on in that forum on the green button, I've decided to wait. Jeez, if I didn't know any better. I'd say:

You are acting like someone is twisting your arm to implement features just to piss the wife off!!!! Sure, I could have gone to MythTV and been able do all these things a long time ago, but I had gotten used to my Media Center as an appliance and not a hobby, or at least not as much of a hobby. That and the fact that everyone was sure that digital cable, satellite and QAM where all coming to Media Center, soon! When digital cable got here, the deal was unacceptable, and the execution almost as bad. Satellite is coming, but if past is prologue, we've got a few surprises in store. And even at that, cable or satellite may become a core system choice!! You go one way, or you go the other, and that's it!!! Changing your mind might become a very expensive and gut wrenching ordeal!!!

The HD-DVR is a disruptive device, as it lays low all the excuses we have heard for so long about why this can't be done. No more blaming Hollywood, the CableCo's, The SatCo's, no more DRM excuses, no more technology limitation excuses, no more bemoaning the "complicated negotiation" excuses. Just plug in your existing equipment, load up the software, and go. And it will work just as well whether you have cable, satellite, fios, or even iptv! Four years of fraking bull tossed right out the window!

Don't get me wrong, If MS comes up the the software to enable this on Media Center, I'l be all over it. But if they don't, well, at that point it would be, if not stupid, then at least very limiting, and possibly very expensive, to stick with Media Center.
post #60 of 5196
Media Center sucks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankinla View Post



I wasn't acting.. I was typing... And as to what I was typing, I acknowledged Media Centers dominant position in the space, ergo, I have 2 of them. The reason I have 2 Media Centers and no Sage or Btv or even LMCE, is the fact that it is the easiest and most reliable that I had tried. However, that reasoning is based on testing I did several years back with an old AthlonXP 2500+ with an AIW9600 Radeon and a TV Wonder card (later a hauppage card), not an ideal setup as neither card had h/w encoding. At that time, Recording TV was kinda just a hobby, as you could never be sure if the scheduler worked, the encoder didn't crash the system, or even if the system would wake up from sleep.

The moment MCE2005 became avialable, I jumped at it. Further, since it required am h/w encoding card, I got one of of those, too. I got an NVidia Dual NVTV, which was a good (and expensive) card back then, but was made exclusively for MCE. And then, since I was leary about mixing ATI and NVidia drivers, I wanted a new graphics card, but all the newer cards where pcie and so that meant getting a new motherboard..... Long story short, I wound up building a new system specifically around MCE. And I gotta say it was slick. And rock solid! Soon, I was unable to watch tv without a guide, I had almost forgotten what commercials where like, and I couldn't imagine scheduling my life around a program... instead I would just record it and watch it when I had the chance. MCE2005 Changed the way I watched TV. It was like going from a junk car to a new car. I loved it, and was no longer envious of Tivo's. I had even put a few together for some other people.

But time moves on. The original reasoning for moving to MCE is no longer valid. Sage has come a long way, and even has extenders. Beyond TV has gotten better (nuff said), and the linux variants have seamed to come along way as well, but I really havent dabled in that for a long, long time. At the same time Windows MC has not, a least not for the DIY crowd. And the WAF is a terribly lame excuse.

No one is saying that QAM is easy at this point (though I don't know why it's so hard), but there is nothing stopping MS from releasing it as a "power toy", like they have done with other software.

Firewire capture has been around for a while, and yet MS has never allowed it. Sure it may be tricky, but why not let it out even as a unsupported power toy?

Component capture, although at 480p, has been around almost as long as there was Firewire. ADS Tech had had a unit out for a long time, yet no support form MS.

Sure, I could have gone to MythTV and been able do all these things a long time ago, but I had gotten used to my Media Center as an appliance and not a hobby, or at least not as much of a hobby. That and the fact that everyone was sure that digital cable, satellite and QAM where all coming to Media Center, soon! When digital cable got here, the deal was unacceptable, and the execution almost as bad. Satellite is coming, but if past is prologue, we've got a few surprises in store. And even at that, cable or satellite may become a core system choice!! You go one way, or you go the other, and that's it!!! Changing your mind might become a very expensive and gut wrenching ordeal!!!

The HD-DVR is a disruptive device, as it lays low all the excuses we have heard for so long about why this can't be done. No more blaming Hollywood, the CableCo's, The SatCo's, no more DRM excuses, no more technology limitation excuses, no more bemoaning the "complicated negotiation" excuses. Just plug in your existing equipment, load up the software, and go. And it will work just as well whether you have cable, satellite, fios, or even iptv! Four years of fraking bull tossed right out the window!

Don't get me wrong, If MS comes up the the software to enable this on Media Center, I'l be all over it. But if they don't, well, at that point it would be, if not stupid, then at least very limiting, and possibly very expensive, to stick with Media Center.
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