Hauppauge WinTV HD PVR (H.264) screenshot - Page 3

Media Center doesn't suck. It just boggles the mind that they fail to implement features that others just go ahead and implement. If they spent half as much time trying to fit these technologies into media center as they do trying to come up with creative excuses as to why they can't (they, the 800 pound gorilla in the room can't, but every one else can!!!), all this would be moot!!

Media Center doesn't suck. Microsoft management on the other hand...

Actually, I was kind of kidding.. the devil inside me just couldnt resist after seeing such frustration. It seems to me that smaller companies just seem have a better idea of what people want. I probably shouldnt have added fuel to the fire.

I agree that this is a market changing device and that VMC could be better, but you guys are talking about MS not supporting a product that isn't even out yet. This discussion would hold much more weight 3-6 months after the device actually hits the streets, if MS still doesn't have support.

But even when they do, I'm not so sure it's right for me. I just hate the idea of adding one more thing in line that has the opportunity to muck up the signal. I'll reserve judgement until the device is actually released, but one thing is for sure, it can't look better. Ohh, and this still requires me to rent a POS box from my provider and use an IR blaster.

Well, as of right now MS does not support this product. This device outputs h.264, which Media Center doesn't work with.

Further, MS has made no mention of supporting this card, and Hauppage has made no allusions as to working with MS to get it in Media Center. As of right now, it is a general assumption that since DirecTV support is imminent, and since DirecTV signals are in h.264, then h.264 is coming to Media Center. Further, it is believed that SDV support is coming for cablecard/tru2way/whatever and that that will also require h.264 support.

This is not neccessarily true. DirecTV and t2w support could come in the form of a plug-in for media center ditributed with device drivers for each product separately. That, and past being prologue, MS never supports paradigm busting devices, ala Firewire.


And cable card requires a digital plan, subscription fees to the various tiers, as well as card fees, not to mention the clunky Digtal TVWonder-Why-They-Made-them-So-Ugly Boxes. DirecTV will probably make you buy the unit and pay a monthly fee per unit or tuner. Whatever, I think we are all accustomed to the notion that just thinking of doing anything these days is gonna cost something and come with undesirable compromises and unforeseen consequences.

The one big advantage this method has is source abstraction. You can move, change service, change plans, do whatever you want, and maintain a consistent interface. And Media Center's greatest strength has always been it's clean, clear, simple and dare I say elegant UI.


PS... I like the Podcast.

Other than you, who has said it is "completely useless unless it supprts the Microsoft..."?

I said it is worthless FOR ME. You do realize there is a difference, right? Or maybe you have just learned it.




Wow, talk about being self centered. You are not as important as your mom told you that you are. "Power users"...heh...you make me laugh. Oh, your mom wants you to mow the lawn to earn your keep and stay in her basement longer....

It is the other way around. Hauppage has to come up with a way to make their produce work with MS, not the other way around.

If Hauppage decides they do not want their product to work with MS, then they have also decided they do not want their product to work with the majority of systems.

This is sad, for they have what looks like a potentially good product.

a 30 mbps MPEG-2 option would have been cool

While this is true, this does not mean that Microsoft won't support it, which is why I said I'd give them a few months after the device is released before I'd give 'em a hard time about it.


Well, of course you have to pay for whatever service you subscribe to, but I'm just saying I'd rather not have to deal with IR blasters and second generation copies, but it may not matter as it may work perfectly, no one knows yet. I'd also rather rent a $3/mo CableCARD, then a $6/mo STB that needs more than just power, coax and USB.


Great point, but this does come with a cost, as mentioned above, not to mention it's more expensive than the other options -- well no one knows how much the HDPC-20 is going to be, but most don't think it'll cost more than $200 for a dual tuner.

Ultimately, I just glad there is another option for those who need it. I have no doubt it'll sell very well


Thanks! We have fun doing it.

No company can be everything to everyone and many times when bringing a revolutionary device to market -- yes I said it, it'll change HTPCs forever -- you can't pull out all the stops at once, so they have to take the path of least resistance while the product is being developed.

Plus, MS has always been in the software business, so it is in their interest to work with hardware companies that add value to the software.

Not sure what'd you use it for, not going to find any sources higher than 20Mpbs, unless you're talking Blu-ray and in that case it's much easier/better to use AnyDVD. Not to mention 13.5 Mbps H.264 is arguably better anyways.

sure H.264 would be better, although I still want a box that can do much higher bitrates, but VMC doesn't support it. 30mbps MPEG-2 would work now and give us the same quality.

FINALLY!! been waiting for this for DirecTV HD channels for sooooo long.....!!


can't wait!! will get one to test first. if everything works as expected, will get up to 3 for my house!!

Better than the alternatives are proving to be on my system, but we only have analog SD cable here and a few OTA SD DVB-T channels. SageTV refuses to load because of some Java error. GBPVR won't even install and a third I tried, MediaPortal, seemed like a weak rip-off version of VMC. I still will try MythTV and Meedios perhaps, but VMC does everything I want except play mounted HD DVD/BD isos.

One potential conflict with Window's Media Center will be the lack of DRM on component connections. Microsoft has probably promised the Content Owners that they will forbid recording of anything flagged Copy Never and restrict transfer of Copy Once shows. Neither is possible on Component connections as far as I know.

On a side note, a Copy Once flag going into a cable box often becomes a Copy Never flag on the output, adding unnecessary DRM to many Media Center recordings (or blocking them completely). Also, anyone who wants to archive TV or wants to watch them at another location (like at work or at a friend's house) generally has to avoid Media Center because of the DRM.

This would only matter if Microsoft was set to provide "official" support for the device. They are not. What Hauppauge has to wait for is H.264 support within SBE, which the next Media Center update will provide for the native DIRECTV tuner that will also be shipping as a part of that update. Once H.264 is there Hauppauge can attempt to work their magic and get it working within Media Center, but DRM has nothing to do with it since Microsoft would not be involved in getting this device to work.

Chris

They (Hauppauge) have said they are shooting for Media Center integration in the summer. It's unclear whether this entails working with MS or just on their own (I would guess the latter).

Edit: Ok I see Chris L confirms no way MS is working with them.

That is the way I look at it. MS has to follow the DRM rules or be sued in courts all over the planet for Billions of Dollars and Billions of Euros. But they can add support for Hughes Networks devices and then others can tap into that.

Very true.
I love MCE.

It fits my needs for the most part.
The only thing where it comes short for me is DVD playback.
The same issue applies to all other PVR front-ends.

And for those of us on the Mac side, there's a thread on the Elgato site petitioning for EyeTV support.

http://forums.elgato.com/viewtopic.p...st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Feel free to chime in. I've gotten a "we haven't decided yet" from Hauppauge and a "we don't know" from Elgato. I don't want to have to run this in VMware Fusion.

But given the native h.264 and the existing Elgato-Hauppauge relationship, I'm keeping my fingers crossed...

Any reason why this device could not capture the output from an Apple TV?

does anyone did the pre-order?? the page is up.

Which version of Java Client are you using with SAGETV? Which version of SAGETV? I find that the prior 5.xx works and so I stick with that one. OP of the forum at SAGETV wants me to upgrade but I use what works.

PCTV, WinDVR, WinDVD Recorder, GBPVR, MCE 2005, SagetV (current)

I was longtime supporter of GBPVR since 2003 then 2004-2007 when I first used it. Still that software is more for experiment testing for users than for daily usage. The gang over their really enjoys trying to figure it out with the author. I dropped using it last year for SAGETV as I wanted my recordings to record and didn't have to keep on setting up the schedule always and fighting to get answers to my questions. EPG free update from Zap2it dropped off making the choice to switch a plus. Although the MediaMVP feature was neat when it did work right. On the rumor boards the current version suppose to be stable.. SageTV is expensive but the recorder works right out of the box. MediaMVP licenses is just too much for me for 7x so I just use the freeware Hauppauge software which for playback or VLC to playback PC to HDTV.

I use VLC over my Web Server that I run here with Sagetv web server client on top of that. Works very well and stable to schedule programming. I like the feature of Sagetv favorites add for First Run and Reruns.

I did try MediaPortal but it never works as they claim it does.. CPTV is another one that good to use better than GBPVR though. ChrisTV is another one but they all pretty much the same. MYTthTV that would require me to build a Linux box again, nah.

So I just use Sagetv to record analog cable and another box for sagetv to record digital channels off digital cable HBO, SHO, Stars an etc.. Playback on MediaMVP or VLC.

Yep. Ordered mine a few minutes ago. Says they will begin shipping on May 1st.

can someone explain the whole 13.5 Mbps H.264 deal?

My understanding is that the signal is broadcast mpeg-2 with various bitrates. This thing converts that to H.264 (for compression presumably) at something up to 13.5 Mbps. Is that right?

If thats the case, what am I losing by using the H.264 format? Does the format cause a degradation in quality? Is it still considered HD?

Also, people seem to be complaining about 13.5 being too low, whats the equivalent rate for say a 1080i signal from the cableco?

Man, these are so cool, I might order me one just to play with even though I don't need one.

Not exactly. You're cable box will decode the MPEG2 into uncompressed analog video then this device will capture that singal and encode it with h.264.

h.264 is roughly twice as efficient as MPEG2, so 13.5Mpbs is higher than the highest broadcast HDTV, but not as high as HD DVD and Blu-ray.

Just to give you an example, most Apple TV HDTV is about 7Mbps h.264.

Can more then one Hauppauge WinTV HD PVR run on the same PC ?
Thinking on ordering two.............but need to know.

Thanks for the response bdraw. That makes sense, since blu-ray is 1080p and broadcast will never be more than 1080i.

Im really curious to see how the video quality stacks up compared to having the cable box go straight to my tv.

I don't think anyone knows yet. Several posters have commented that they bought multiple units though. You might email Hauppauge and ask them. They seem to actually answer their emails.

So reading through this thread I think I know the answer but I'm going to shoot anyway.

My setup is MCE 2005 with a single ATI tuner hooked to an HD cable box, via coax and ir-blaster. (This gives me every channel, not in HD mind you, but at least I can still watch the programming on stuff like Discovery/HDTheater etc...)

I also have an HD-Homerun hooked up to coax as well, and this gives me all the un-encrypted QAM channels from my cable co, including HD ones... (Not many but I get all the locals, Fox/ABC/NBC/etc...)

I have 2 xbox360 used as extenders, I don't actually watch anything off the MCE pc, and I'd like to keep it that way.

My hope is that I can use the Hauppauge to get "ALL" the HD channels that my cable co offers (with the appropriate service package of course) and still be able to watch(live) or recorded on both of the extenders. So pretty much taking the place of the ATI tuner.

Now reading through this thread it appears I won't be able to do this from the get go, since MCE doesn't support h.264, and it'll need to be patched either from MS or from Hauppauge.

SO should I cancel my pre-order? and wait until there is more info, (or directTV gets finished beta testing?) Or continue with the pre-order and hope for the best?

Thanks in advance.