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Ender's Game - Page 2

post #31 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flave View Post

^^
I assume you mean "Lord of the Rings"? "Lord of the Flies" wasn't exactly a cinematic stretch.


I think he was referring to the child-on-child violence in Lord of the Flies as compared to the brutality in Ender's Game, not necessarily the cinematic scope of the project.
post #32 of 161
Neuromancer...there is very little chance that the director of Torque will be given the script or money to make this watchable...it will be a dumbed down Johnny Mneumonic. HC doesn't have the chops either.
post #33 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

Neuromancer...there is very little chance that the director of Torque will be given the script or money to make this watchable...it will be a dumbed down Johnny Mneumonic. HC doesn't have the chops either.

Sadly, you may be right. Johnny Mnemonic was a travesty, a perfect example of how not to do justice to the original story in a movie.
post #34 of 161
Ahhh geeze.. I hope it gets a new director.. that guy directed ONE feature length film I've never even heard of and a scad of music videos for Pop and Rap Stars..

Ditch Hayden and the director and put the money into selecting an up and coming cast of unknowns and a director with some experience doing gritty, dark movies.
post #35 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sutter Cane View Post

I think he was referring to the child-on-child violence in Lord of the Flies as compared to the brutality in Ender's Game, not necessarily the cinematic scope of the project.

Ah! Well that makes sense. Sorry.

But the violence in Lord of the Flies is quite "organic" and constrained whereas Ender's violence is premeditated genocide. Pretty big difference. Mind you, the children's violence in LOTF is conscious and deliberate whereas the kids in Ender's have no idea of the scope of their "games".
post #36 of 161
Thread Starter 
yeah, Flave, definitely. Although Ender might set an example and send a warning to all the school bullys out there, ha!
post #37 of 161
Ender was groomed to be the Fleet Commander because of his ability to be totally ruthless, the master of pre-emptive, finalized violence towards threats. His gift of genius is aided by psi level empathy which is why the reader understands the price he pays when exercising his skills. The conflicts with fellow cadets are largely engineered by Fleet Command staff to hone the little guy for his Bugger mission.

If you take away Ender's ruthlessness vs rivals...if you can't create sympathy for a child that kills a kindergarten bully as his last qualification for Battle School...if you don't show saint/Ender being molded in pyscho/Peter's shadow...you just gut the story. I can't see any of those things making it into the script.
post #38 of 161
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

I can't see any of those things making it into the script.

I agree.
post #39 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

You can't create sympathy for a child that kills a kindergarten bully as his last qualification for Battle School...if you don't show saint/Ender being molded in pyscho/Peter's shadow...you just gut the story. I can't see any of those things making it into the script.

It isn't hard to create sympathy for a small 12 year old who is being attacked by a large 14-15 year old. The fight took a couple of seconds and the violence was situational. It's not like his opponent was helpless on the floor and 'killed'. Actually, Ender's trouble dealing with the death afterward was very sympathetic material. It would also be easy to show how the whole thing was arranged by the suits in control.

Chris.
post #40 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMcCarthy View Post

It isn't hard to create sympathy for a small 12 year old who is being attacked by a large 14-15 year old. The fight took a couple of seconds and the violence was situational. It's not like his opponent was helpless on the floor and 'killed'. Actually, Ender's trouble dealing with the death afterward was very sympathetic material. It would also be easy to show how the whole thing was arranged by the suits in control.

Chris.

If they moved Ender's age up to 12...I believe he was ~ 6 years old. The bully(s) were in his class. Ender was 8 when he took over the Dragon team and went on to the Asteroid base at 12-13. If the script kept to the timeline, then they would need 2 actors to play Ender. I'm sure OSC has written a script that could capture Ender. I'm not sure a child actor could pull it off. Genius, adult level conciousness, ruthlessness combined with extreme vulnerability...tough to pull off...it would take a special kid.

I've got to remind myself we're talking about vaporware here .
post #41 of 161
The age was always an issue for me. Not only will it not work in a movie, but I couldnt really buy it when reading the book but at least in the book you can at least forget about the age issue because it isnt visual. Seeing a 6 year old beating up an older bully in my opinion wont work. As for sympathy, Ender was always a sympathetic character. In all of the cases where he took out someone either in school or in Battle school, it was always his opponents who started the argument or attacked him and it was he who helped the smaller and weaker kids in battelschool reach their own potential.
post #42 of 161
Well you really wouldn't have bought into Ender's Shadow, where Bean lives in the toilet as an infant for the first few months after he's born.
post #43 of 161
You just know the producers are going to change the circumstances a little bit to make the movie more "PC"!

As an alternative, Ender might throw the bully around in null-grav...

Bean would live undetected in a closet (remind you of any other movies?)...
post #44 of 161
I suspect they will do what they did with Children of Dune. Keep the story the same and advance key characters to teenagers.

Chris.
post #45 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMcCarthy View Post

I suspect they will do what they did with Children of Dune. Keep the story the same and advance key characters to teenagers.

Chris.

I won't have it, I tell ya .

It would ruin the story for me. I have no sympathy for teenagers anymore. I've got grandkids that age and just want to smack em .
post #46 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

Neuromancer...there is very little chance that the director of Torque will be given the script or money to make this watchable...it will be a dumbed down Johnny Mneumonic. HC doesn't have the chops either.

I don't see the point of making a Neuromancer movie this late in the game. All of the concepts and themes of that book have already been lifted for other movies. There's nothing left for it to do that hasn't been done on screen. It's redundant.
post #47 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I don't see the point of making a Neuromancer movie this late in the game. All of the concepts and themes of that book have already been lifted for other movies. There's nothing left for it to do that hasn't been done on screen. It's redundant.

Your right, but it is sad that a landmark story like Neuromancer is now redundant since all of its ideas have been used/stolen in other stories. Would be similar to not making Lord of the Rings since all the fantasy aspects of the story had already been done...

Chris.
post #48 of 161
They won't make it. As I said earlier, if Orson hasn't OK'd it by this point it will never be made. It would be the kind of movie that needed to be made by a visionary like Kubrick with the violence of a movie like A Clockwork Orange. Maybe someone like a Guillermo del Toro could do it, but it would need to be rated NC-17 for violence to be anywhere near true to the book, and unfortunately most big movie chains in North America refuse to distribute any NC-17 rated movie.
post #49 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveFi View Post

They won't make it. As I said earlier, if Orson hasn't OK'd it by this point it will never be made. It would be the kind of movie that needed to be made by a visionary like Kubrick with the violence of a movie like A Clockwork Orange. Maybe someone like a Guillermo del Toro could do it, but it would need to be rated NC-17 for violence to be anywhere near true to the book, and unfortunately most big movie chains in North America refuse to distribute any NC-17 rated movie.

I just read Ender's Game recently, and I didn't find the violence anywhere near NC-17 level. Both of the instances where important characters die occur in very quick fashion, and you don't really understand what's happened until it's explained after-the-fact. The Battle Room scenes are brutal, but no one is permanently injuried or killed. The nature of them being a game removes a level of intensity from the violence. And the final war is entirely abstract (even Ender doesn't understand what's happening).

What is problematic for it is that all of the violence involves very young children. Not only will that make studio heads, the MPAA, and audiences squeamish, but casting child actors who can perform it believably will be an almost impossible task.

I liked the book, but if it is adapted to film I hope they cut out the entirety of the subplot involving Ender's 12 year old brother plotting to take over the world. That was just kind of dumb.
post #50 of 161
I was looking for this thread for another discussion. Hence the bump.
post #51 of 161
Thread Starter 
So... director and cast attached, here we go:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1731141/
post #52 of 161
Ooo.... Harrison Ford and Sir Ben Kingsley.

larry
post #53 of 161
Doesn't the book start with Ender at 6yrs old? The actor playing Ender is 16.

It still looks like the story will be severely gimped.
post #54 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Z View Post

I liked the book, but if it is adapted to film I hope they cut out the entirety of the subplot involving Ender's 12 year old brother plotting to take over the world. That was just kind of dumb.

Seemed that way to me on first read as well, but it now seems eerily prescient in describing the modern influence of the Internet - especially popular blogs and sites - in shaping public opinion. It doesn't seem that far-fetched anymore, as it's become clear in recent years that a certain percentage of the population will believe nearly anything as long as it comes from a site they "trust". Pressure to conform to popular opinions can make really outlandish ideas gain traction. It will be interesting to see how they deal with this recent development within the context of this movie.
post #55 of 161
Old thread about the impossibility of making a film that's finally being made . I guess we'll need to start a new on, since this one is riddled with spoilers for those who haven't read the book. I'll be interested in seeing this one, but have my doubts.
post #56 of 161
I am sure this will be PG-13 with any kid on kid violence being all shaky cam.
post #57 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

Old thread about the impossibility of making a film that's finally being made . I guess we'll need to start a new on, since this one is riddled with spoilers for those who haven't read the book. I'll be interested in seeing this one, but have my doubts.

Sure it's possible to make a film called "Ender's Game" but what kind of semblance it has to the book remains to be seen.
post #58 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoCaboNow View Post

I am sure this will be PG-13 with any kid on kid violence being all shaky cam.

As Josh said, the violence was delivered so fast and ambiguously (the dying was offscene), I doubt they'll need to...and if they use any shaky cam in the zero g 3D game room environment, it would ruin the experience.
post #59 of 161
They just filmed "The Hunger Games", which also features kid-on-kid violence, and was structured & edited to get a PG-13. I suspect they'll follow a similar template here.
post #60 of 161
That's gonna guarantee another insipid screen version of a great book. You can count on the fingers of one hand the great SF books that were made into great SF movies.
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