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List of HTIB's and/or AVR's with HDMI audio processing (5.1/7.1 PCM) Help List Grow!! - Page 4

post #91 of 212
Again, I am looking at the Onkyo SP908... need to find it cheap!
post #92 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post

The reason why this is possible is because any HD-DVD or BLU-RAY player will and must be capable of decoding the HD audio formats on board, then outputting it as PCM to any receiver that accepts it.

I don't understand. Why is it that when I look at this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1050507 I see a lot of players that don't decode all formats, and some that don't decode any?
post #93 of 212
Support of the hd audio formats in blue ray is optional (except pcm).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...hnical_details
post #94 of 212
Great list!
post #95 of 212
onkyo tx 805 is ....wow..
post #96 of 212
post #97 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamahome02000 View Post

Support of the hd audio formats in blue ray is optional (except pcm).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compari...hnical_details

We're not talking about the same thing.

The reference you cite says that all Blu-Ray players must be able to play audio from a disc with an LPCM soundtrack. I'm not questioning that.

What the starter of this thread says is that all Blu-Ray players must be able to decode the advanced audio formats to LPCM. That would appear, by the thread I cited, to be wrong, unless manufacturers are somehow getting away with calling their players Blu-Ray without adhering to the alleged requirement.
post #98 of 212
Decoding of all advanced codecs (DTS-MA, etc.) is not mandatory for all Blu-Ray players. What the OP is referring to is that most Blu-Ray players will decode True HD and other formats into lossless PCM and transport that to your receiver over HDMI. This is especially important for PS3 users as PCM over optical is only 2 channel. Thus, we need receivers and HTiB's that do 5-7 channel LPCM. Therefore, the need for this thread.
post #99 of 212
I didn't even know it would do PCM 2.0 through optical. Good info.

BTW, 2 new Onkyos were announced that are highend with THX. I imagine they'll qualify for this list.
post #100 of 212
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/07/24...s7100-ht-s610/
post #101 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Shaffer View Post

We're not talking about the same thing.

The reference you cite says that all Blu-Ray players must be able to play audio from a disc with an LPCM soundtrack. I'm not questioning that.

What the starter of this thread says is that all Blu-Ray players must be able to decode the advanced audio formats to LPCM. That would appear, by the thread I cited, to be wrong, unless manufacturers are somehow getting away with calling their players Blu-Ray without adhering to the alleged requirement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spektricide View Post

Decoding of all advanced codecs (DTS-MA, etc.) is not mandatory for all Blu-Ray players. What the OP is referring to is that most Blu-Ray players will decode True HD and other formats into lossless PCM and transport that to your receiver over HDMI. This is especially important for PS3 users as PCM over optical is only 2 channel. Thus, we need receivers and HTiB's that do 5-7 channel LPCM. Therefore, the need for this thread.

lol! People are having a discussion about something I said and I dont even know about it. Find it funny. I thank Jim Shaffer for pointing that out, because this will serve for future reference. I guess by reading my first post some people might understand that I mean that every blu ray player does LPCM and not that they simply transfer the PCM. Also I thank Spektricide for clarifying. But this is what I truly meant:

MOst Blu Ray player is going to be able to DECODE the new formats and send it via PCM to whatever receiver you have. Thing is, I know for a fact there are some older blu ray players that are not capable of decoding DTS MA. For those who have one of these blu ray players, the simple solution is to buy a receiver that does process DTS MA and have the player send the signal via bitstream. THis would be the case for somebody who has a different blu ray player. However, this thread is mainly focused towards those with a PS3. As we know, PS3 is perfectly capable of decoding all formats on board, therefore our only concern would be to obtain a receiver that accepts and processes LPCM fully. Another thing that people should realize (and this thing I am about to explain is the reason why I went ahead and said that blu ray players must decode on board) is that there a lot more players that decode both DTS MA and True HD than there are Receivers. THerefore, it is inherently more common (and easier) to have a bluray player that decodes both HD formats on board connected via HDMI to a receiver that accepts LPCM with support to up to 5.1 or 7.1 channels (in this case, receiver does not necessarily have to claim to be able to decode HD formats since they would be decoded on the player); than it is to have blu ray player that fails to decode at least one format (namely DTS MA), therefore sending a bitstream signal to a receiver hooked up with analog or an optical cable (in this case, the receiver would have to claim to be able to decode HD formats because the audio signal would be decoded on the receiver)

I have updated the first post with some of this info and a brand new section, please everyone check it out and tell me what you think (new section titled linear pcm vs. bitstream) I also updated the WHY IS PCM IMPORTANT? section. Please check it out. Thanks all of you for your input
post #102 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doom878 View Post

I didn't even know it would do PCM 2.0 through optical. Good info.

BTW, 2 new Onkyos were announced that are highend with THX. I imagine they'll qualify for this list.

I rarely see THX on HTIB's. I will definetely be looking out for those. THanks for the info
post #103 of 212
darkleafar

Thanks so much for putting this thread together - the information is needed by all.

Recently I had the SC-BT100 in the house for about a week. Overall it was stunning (at least for us) for a HTIB. I think both the internal BluRay Player and its Audio processor meets many (most?) of the top end processing requirements. I think the BluRay portion of the unit is the exact same as that of the BD50 player (both the BD50 and the HTIB were released this last month).

The sound to our ears (with one exception below) was excellent; BluRay movies never looked or sounded better to us. Yes it is true its not the loudest system in the world, nor will the bass crack the windows; but when the Jets flewover in Cloverfield I did have to turn around to see where they went. The front sound field was excellent, voices were perfect, clearly understood (without having to turn up the volume), regardless of the soundtrack playing.

As a complete package for us we had two issues or problems.

1. The rear wireless speakers did not work without some "white noise" - a second replacement unit will be here the first of next week.
2. There is only ONE toslink "in" connector, that is a major pain, because the spliter/combined would work; except for the fact the toslink output on the Panasonic Plasma can never be turned "off". Seems to me all HTIB or AVR should have 2, 3 or 4 switched toslink "in". I need at least two and prefer three. This means that if the second unit works, I will have to get up and change toslinks cables, each time the source is changed on the HTIB

If the new unit has the exact same problem the I will go with the Panasonic BD50 Player - - - But then I need an AVR and Speakers (all wired of course), that will handle all of the audio processing and have 3 toslinks "in" AND it needs to be cheap. I do not want to give up any of the HD audio processing (either one of them).

Complete packages like Onkyo HT-S6100 sound promising; but confusing abounds as to what it will really process?

Any suggestions or insight you have on this will be welcome.
post #104 of 212
Thread Starter 
Well it seems like There is something I am not understanding fully..why do you insiston using toslink cables? why not HDMI? Also, the Onkyo unit you showed me looks very nice and shiny, but for me is kinda overkill. Why? because I personally would not pay the extra money for a receiver that decodes all HD audio when I can simply get a cheaper receiver that accepts LPCM and does not decode HD audio since my PS3 can do it just fine, but it is just a matter of preference. The blu ray player you are looking to get and the one you do have decodes all formats on board, right? am a little confused as to why you dont simply use one HDMI cable that would allow to switch sources without having to get up rather than getting up top switching toslink cables every time you need a different source..you know what i mean?
post #105 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post

Well it seems like There is something I am not understanding fully..why do you insiston using toslink cables? why not HDMI? Also, the Onkyo unit you showed me looks very nice and shiny, but for me is kinda overkill. Why? because I personally would not pay the extra money for a receiver that decodes all HD audio when I can simply get a cheaper receiver that accepts LPCM and does not decode HD audio since my PS3 can do it just fine, but it is just a matter of preference. The blu ray player you are looking to get and the one you do have decodes all formats on board, right? am a little confused as to why you dont simply use one HDMI cable that would allow to switch sources without having to get up rather than getting up top switching toslink cables every time you need a different source..you know what i mean?


I don't know. Meaning this stuff is so complex, it drives me nuts at times.

Well the Panasonic HTIB, has zero HDMI inputs, but the Panasonic TV 800U has 4 HDMI inputs, with only ONE toslink "out" that will pass 5.1 etc from ONLY the OTA TV Tuner.

The Sony HD recorder used with all our HD OTA stations will only output 5.1 sound via toslink (just like the Plasma 800U), even though it feeds the signal to the Plasma with the HDMI cable, it only passes plain sound to the TV (not 5.1).

I also have an older Sony DVD player, and the only way to get 5.1 out of that box is with the toslink "out" connection on the back.

So the only way I can get 5.1 sound out of those "three" boxes is with the toslink.

So there I am, up the creak without a paddle.

In my mind, why do I need HDMI, particularly with all the inputs on the back of the TV; but I do want the 5.1 sound out of everybox I have.

Please tell me there is an easier way? I am very slow at this stuff.
post #106 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

I don't know. Meaning this stuff is so complex, it drives me nuts at times.

Well the Panasonic HTIB, has zero HDMI inputs, but the Panasonic TV 800U has 4 HDMI inputs, with only ONE toslink "out" that will pass 5.1 etc from ONLY the OTA TV Tuner.

The Sony HD recorder used with all our HD OTA stations will only output 5.1 sound via toslink (just like the Plasma 800U), even though it feeds the signal to the Plasma with the HDMI cable, it only passes plain sound to the TV (not 5.1).

I also have an older Sony DVD player, and the only way to get 5.1 out of that box is with the toslink "out" connection on the back.

So the only way I can get 5.1 sound out of those "three" boxes is with the toslink.

So there I am, up the creak without a paddle.

In my mind, why do I need HDMI, particularly with all the inputs on the back of the TV; but I do want the 5.1 sound out of everybox I have.

Please tell me there is an easier way? I am very slow at this stuff.

I wouldnt know what to tell you. THe best i can think of is get yourself a rceiver tha has more than one toslink connection, use the receiver as your connection center and connect your tv via HDMI to the receiver. I cant think of an easier way than that.
post #107 of 212
Is there any HDMI splitter that comes so that you can split the signal from the PS3 into two parts, one which goes into the receiver for sound and another goes to the TV for signal?
post #108 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post

I wouldnt know what to tell you. THe best i can think of is get yourself a rceiver tha has more than one toslink connection, use the receiver as your connection center and connect your tv via HDMI to the receiver. I cant think of an easier way than that.

That is very likely what I will end up doing, if the system on its way here does not work, if it does work I will just do the toslink suffle arggggg!
post #109 of 212
im new to home theaters, and a ps3 owner would it be worth it for me to buy one of these systems, would i really notice the difference between the hdmi audio and the optical
post #110 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nethawk_2003 View Post

im new to home theaters, and a ps3 owner would it be worth it for me to buy one of these systems, would i really notice the difference between the hdmi audio and the optical

well it depends. If you are sending a bitstream DTS MA or DOLBY TRUEHD signal from your player to a receiver that decodes HD formats via optical cable, it would get the exact same quality than if you are sending a LPCM DTS MA or DOLBY TRUEHD signal from your player that decodes HD formats to a receiver via HDMI cable...so in that case HDMI and optical are identical quality..so you need to be more specific in your question
post #111 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post

well it depends. If you are sending a bitstream DTS MA or DOLBY TRUEHD signal from your player to a receiver that decodes HD formats via optical cable, it would get the exact same quality than if you are sending a LPCM DTS MA or DOLBY TRUEHD signal from your player that decodes HD formats to a receiver via HDMI cable...so in that case HDMI and optical are identical quality..so you need to be more specific in your question

I thought you cant send all those signals over optical, in order to get 5.1 DTS MA or TrueHD, you need to use HDMI only otherwise it gets downmixed to PCM 2.0...
post #112 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post

well it depends. If you are sending a bitstream DTS MA or DOLBY TRUEHD signal from your player to a receiver that decodes HD formats via optical cable, it would get the exact same quality than if you are sending a LPCM DTS MA or DOLBY TRUEHD signal from your player that decodes HD formats to a receiver via HDMI cable...so in that case HDMI and optical are identical quality..so you need to be more specific in your question

GoodToGo1 is correct. DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD cannot pass through an optical cable, only HDMI.
post #113 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by nethawk_2003 View Post

im new to home theaters, and a ps3 owner would it be worth it for me to buy one of these systems, would i really notice the difference between the hdmi audio and the optical

Only you can decide if it is worth it. You don't tell us anything about what you have now other than a PS3. If you want advice then we need to know what equipment you are presently running and how you use it. Do you watch HD programming, SD programming, play movies, play games, listen to music, etc...?
post #114 of 212
ok sorry about that, to start off this home theater would be for my bedroom not my livingroom, i have a 23 inch samsung and a ps3 those would be the only things i will hook up, i have comcast so its mainly sd channels on my tv, the ps3 i use mainly for games and music, occasionally ill watch a movie or 2, i have a sony HTDDW790 in my living room with no HDMI ins or outs i have a ps3 hooked up to that through optical cable and to me it sounds ok, now im wanting to get surround sound for my ps3 in my room, and im not sure wether to spend the money on one of these or just get another HTDDW790, there about 200 bucks, one reason i havnt bout another HTDDW790 is cause i currently live with my parents, and i want a surround sound that ill take with me when i get my own place, so thats why im askin if i would notice a big difference in the optical sound or the HDMI sound
post #115 of 212
ok i have a samsung pn50a650, and a ps3 80gb, and a high def cable box...my apartment is rather small and i dont want tons of wires and speakers everywhere...i am looking at a sony HT-CT100 soundbar, would this be your choice? good price, 3 hdmi, 1080p, and little cables, and from what i read it produces good sound for the size, and what it doesnt decode the ps3 will take care of......anything i should know about? im a big gamer and i watch tons of movies
post #116 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by nethawk_2003 View Post

ok sorry about that, to start off this home theater would be for my bedroom not my livingroom, i have a 23 inch samsung and a ps3 those would be the only things i will hook up, i have comcast so its mainly sd channels on my tv, the ps3 i use mainly for games and music, occasionally ill watch a movie or 2, i have a sony HTDDW790 in my living room with no HDMI ins or outs i have a ps3 hooked up to that through optical cable and to me it sounds ok, now im wanting to get surround sound for my ps3 in my room, and im not sure wether to spend the money on one of these or just get another HTDDW790, there about 200 bucks, one reason i havnt bout another HTDDW790 is cause i currently live with my parents, and i want a surround sound that ill take with me when i get my own place, so thats why im askin if i would notice a big difference in the optical sound or the HDMI sound

If you don't watch Blu-rays or HD DVDs then you won't have any sources for the HD audio codecs so running audio through an optical cable is fine. If you buy a new AVR with HDMI supported audio you shouldn't notice any difference in the sound quality between HDMI and optical unless you want to listen to the HD audio tracks available on some BDs and HD DVDs. Of course getting a better AVR and speakers may yield better audio quality.
post #117 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyraw View Post

ok i have a samsung pn50a650, and a ps3 80gb, and a high def cable box...my apartment is rather small and i dont want tons of wires and speakers everywhere...i am looking at a sony HT-CT100 soundbar, would this be your choice? good price, 3 hdmi, 1080p, and little cables, and from what i read it produces good sound for the size, and what it doesnt decode the ps3 will take care of......anything i should know about? im a big gamer and i watch tons of movies

You have a pretty decent tv and the CT100 should be adequate for a small apartment. You should find answers to your questions on the thread dedicated to the CT100. Here is the link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1026566
post #118 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson View Post

darkleafar

Complete packages like Onkyo HT-S6100 sound promising; but confusing abounds as to what it will really process?

Any suggestions or insight you have on this will be welcome.

The Onkyo 6100 has the the same 606 receiver but is called 667 so that should be good in terms of handling HDMI audio. Processing i believe would still be taken care of the bluray player/PS3.
post #119 of 212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeye911 View Post

GoodToGo1 is correct. DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD cannot pass through an optical cable, only HDMI.

I thought that the signal only got downgraded if you attempted LPCM, but that if you did bitstream for it to be decoded in the receiver it would be ok?
post #120 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkleafar View Post

I thought that the signal only got downgraded if you attempted LPCM, but that if you did bitstream for it to be decoded in the receiver it would be ok?

I think the bandwidth is still too much. Those codecs only have about 50% compression, like flac.
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