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PS3ToothFairy IR Retrofit/Assembly for PS3 Bluetooth Remotes - Page 3

post #61 of 461
Thread Starter 
Ok, I'll check out that profile and see what it looks like. This may be more technical than anyone cares, but the Sony PS3 protocol (the bluetooth one) has two distinct codes for the Enter key and the X key. So they are not the same key, but the game remotes don't have an enter so the PS3 does the same thing when navigating whether you press X or Enter. I suspect that the reason it is this way is because the PS2 remotes used "Enter" as the main navigation key as well and had "X" off to the side. But agreed, in this case both of us are correct.

I chose to put Enter there because the pairing technique I use mimics as close as possible the official Sony technique, which requires you to hold down the enter key.

Thanks for the discussion, its always interesting to see how others do things and learn from/about it.
post #62 of 461
Thread Starter 
If you have not already discovered this on your own, the Logitech Harmony database is updated with a fully functional profile. The only additions I might suggest are:

1) Mapping the Pop Up Menu button to a hard key for BluRay viewing.
2) If you have a "Color Key" harmony such as the 555, map the color keys in case they ever get used for something.

The User Manual is updated. There is now a special section on pairing with the Harmony. One of the customers read it and helped me make it better. Thanks! The sections of the site are also updated.

Discrete Power. As most of you know the ps3 does not natively support any discrete power commands. The ps3toothfairy handles this a couple of ways. First, the ps3toothfairy incorporates a power off macro. You can change the macro behavior to be long, short, or nothing. In any case the power off command will always tell the ps3toothfairy that the device is turned off. Now the next part is the PowerTrack function. This is disabled by default, but you can enable it in configuration mode. This function will keep track as best as possible as to whether the ps3toothfairy is on or off. If it is off, then you MUST press the PS button (PwrToggle on the Harmony) to turns the PS3 on. From that point forward the ps3toothfairy will pass through any commands it receives until it sees the power off command. If you try to send it something when it perceives the ps3 is off, then it will blink really fast 5 times or so.

The one catch is if you stick a disc in, then you sort of bypass the ps3toothfairy, but fortunately, if you just press PwrToggle, it won't have much effect and the ps3toothfairy will start responding to the IR commands and passing them to the PS3.

Lastly, if you have any suggestions or improvements, or things that are just plain slick, let me know or post and perhaps I can sqeeze it in.

Thanks
Ayman
post #63 of 461
Hi Ayman

Just wanted to let you know that the ps3toothfairy is functioning properly for me after PS3 FW update 2.40, it appears that the IR2BT is having problems after 2.40. FYI

Steve
post #64 of 461
Thread Starter 
Thanks Steve, I am still in my office so I won't be able to check it out until I head out. But I did hear there were some issues with at least one of the (competing) devices from one of my other engineers. I did the update but it was so slow that I left before it finished. I am sure if any customers have problems, they will post here or contact me.

The ps3toothfairy uses the Sony module to get as close to 100% compatibility as possible. Is the other device you mentioned using another method? Future compatibility is one reason that I implemented "Combo Keys" -- In case Sony decides to change either the sequence for pairing or the timing. The Sony protocol support about 18 keys that can be pressed at the same time. I've made sure the ps3toothfairy can do every combination.

There is one other feature that I don't want to disclose that also does everything it can to ensure that there are no timing changes or synchronization errors between the ps3toothfairy and what the official Sony remote might do.

Thanks
Ayman
post #65 of 461
Am I correct in assuming that the toothfairy red led is not normally on (probably on during button presses?)? Like to keep it nice and dark up there

Edit: Ok it looks like this is true, finally read manual.
post #66 of 461
What is the price on the standard one? Is there a timeframe of when more are going to be in stock?
post #67 of 461
Thread Starter 
Hi Mhatter,

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhatter View Post

Am I correct in assuming that the toothfairy red led is not normally on (probably on during button presses?)? Like to keep it nice and dark up there

The LED is programmable, you can turn it on, off, or dim it. It stays on during configuration mode. During normal operation it blinks when it is doing key presses. Depending on how you have it setup it will blink certain numbers of times to tell you "something is happening", "made a mistake setting me up", "can't do that now", etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZildjianKX View Post

What is the price on the standard one? Is there a timeframe of when more are going to be in stock?

The standard one was $62, but we are not making as many this time around because very few people wanted them. Almost everyone wanted an Elite and some wanted to add their own module AND have the wired IR, so I am working on that one right now. They are at the assembler being built already. As soon as I have a couple of finished ones to check out, I'll update the avail and quantity I have.

I'll have a couple more power options available as well including a USB cable since it was a very popular request. I'll also have an IR cable available. The power adapters will still be the US style blades. It works from 90-240AC, so you would only need an adapter to use it overseas.

If there are any other cables or accessories people want, just holler and I'll see what I can do. There is basically no additional shipping charge for cables since the ps3toothfairy and power supply are very light.
post #68 of 461
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by x64Man View Post

Just wanted to let you know that the ps3toothfairy is functioning properly for me after PS3 FW update 2.40

Ok, I've confirmed as well that the ps3toothfairy works correctly with the 2.40 update. I even sacrificed a brand new Sony BD remote to verify that it isn't an issue with a different gen remote or anything of the sort.

Ayman
post #69 of 461
Ayman, I have a perfectly good URC-200 remote that I want to keep.

Given this is an older Universal Remote I believe I'll have to use "learn" mode to set this up for use with the Toothfairy.

Questions:

1) Which is better device to "learn" from an old PS2 remote or the Nykos remote?

2) Will I be able to "learn" the on / off button from the old PS2 remote that will work with the Toothfairy?

3) Will there be any PS3 buttons I won't get to use because I have to "learn" from the PS2 remote or the Nykos remote?

Thanks,
Jon
post #70 of 461
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MauiJon View Post

1) Which is better device to "learn" from an old PS2 remote or the Nykos remote?

I haven't tried the Nyko, but I did use the PS2 remote to initially test with. I also used it to learn so I know that one works. I'd suggest getting the second generation PS2 remote (the one that did NOT come with the IR sensor) for learning or borrow a Harmony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MauiJon View Post

2) Will I be able to "learn" the on / off button from the old PS2 remote that will work with the Toothfairy?

From what I can tell your remote knows about the Sony DVD discrete off already so you should be good there. But if not, it is function code 2F (decimal 47). I did a quick search and most mentioned that it was supported.

If you have the PS2 remote, then your power on is already there or you can again use the Sony DVD power on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MauiJon View Post

3) Will there be any PS3 buttons I won't get to use because I have to "learn" from the PS2 remote or the Nykos remote?

There should not be any unused buttons, the recent revision PS2 remote has 51 buttons and the PS3 remote has 51 buttons, the only extra one I added was the power off and it appears your remote already knows that one.

Hope that answers all your questions!

- Ayman
post #71 of 461
Ayman, thanks for quick reply.

I am up for the challenge of going the PS2 "learn" mode route. When can I buy the ToothFairy?

-jon
post #72 of 461
Thread Starter 
Hopefully very soon (maybe 1 week). They are being assembled right now and so as soon as I get the first few back and make sure everything is good, I'll put them up for sale. If things aren't good -- then it will take a little longer. However, I don't anticipate any problems.
post #73 of 461
So you'll be selling a few standard units then?

Also, I couldn't find the "USB-A to polarized power cable" in your accessories store...

Thanks.
post #74 of 461
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZildjianKX View Post

So you'll be selling a few standard units then?

Also, I couldn't find the "USB-A to polarized power cable" in your accessories store...

Thanks.

Yes, we will have a few standard units. As for the cables, I want to be absolutely sure that they work correctly with the new units before I put them up. It is a 3' black cable with a USB A male connector on one end and a right angle 2.1mm connector on the other. I would have preferred a longer cord, but that was not an option.
post #75 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by aymanme View Post


The standard one was $62, but we are not making as many this time around because very few people wanted them. Almost everyone wanted an Elite and some wanted to add their own module AND have the wired IR, so I am working on that one right now. They are at the assembler being built already. As soon as I have a couple of finished ones to check out, I'll update the avail and quantity I have.

Glad to hear about the roll-your-own version with the wired IR. How much is that one?
post #76 of 461
Hi, I just have one more question.

Does the ToothFairy use the same power off Macro that the PS3's official bluetooth remote uses? Does it actually use the on-board macro from the PS3 remote's board itself? I'm just curious. I was wondering how update proof the PS3 toothfairy is after what happened to the IR2BT. Not having to keep the remote pointed at the device to power it off like the IR2BT is one of the big selling points for me...
post #77 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZildjianKX View Post

Does the ToothFairy use the same power off Macro that the PS3's official bluetooth remote uses?

I think I'm going to feel dumb but I have an official PS3 bluetooth remote I have no idea what triggers the power off macro.
post #78 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

I think I'm going to feel dumb but I have an official PS3 bluetooth remote I have no idea what triggers the power off macro.

Should be the power button if the system is turned on.
post #79 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZildjianKX View Post

Should be the power button if the system is turned on.

...power button?

I turn it on via the PS button. I don't have the remote in front of me, but I'm going to have to search for a button marked power. I've never noticed it before.
post #80 of 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

...power button?

I turn it on via the PS button. I don't have the remote in front of me, but I'm going to have to search for a button marked power. I've never noticed it before.

Ooops, I thought it had a power button.

What happens if the power off sequence changes then, how does the PS3Toothfairy handle that?
post #81 of 461
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone, sorry I haven't responded as quickly as I would like ... so here goes

Quote:


Glad to hear about the roll-your-own version with the wired IR. How much is that one?

xlurkr, I am trying to get the wired IR DIY assembly in for about $64 +/-. I don't know what it will be called on the site yet, but I would like to get that price.

Quote:


Does the ToothFairy use the same power off Macro that the PS3's official bluetooth remote uses?

ZildjianKX, there is no power off built into the official PS3 remote. The PS3 remote just sends buttons w/o any knowledge of the state of the PS3. The entire macro sequence is contained in the ps3toothfairy. The ps3toothfairy shuts down the PS3 in just about every situation that we've tried. As for update proof, I've answered it below.

We use the real Sony module, so you can expect minimal to no issues. As I understand it (from what some of my customers have stated), some other devices uses a Broadcom integrated HID. There could be a difference in behavior between the official Sony module and the combination of HID/firmware. That is probably what led to the issues with PS3 firmwares >= 2.40.

We use the real Sony module (yours or ours), so the probability of success is very high. In addition, the ps3toothfairy fully emulates the PS3 "keyboard". So you can use the device to press any key and any combination of keys that the remote originally supported. I've referred to them as "Combo" keys in the documentation, but the concept is straightforward. In other words if the PS3 decided tomorrow to ask you to press R1 + Start, the ps3toothfairy could handle it.

Since we are using the real Sony module, the price is higher. I looked at using a Broadcom HID. The Broadcom FDK is not easily available, and from what I could discern when I first started this project, it was basically required to modify the E2, which is ultimately required to customize its behavior.

Quote:


What happens if the power off sequence changes then, how does the PS3Toothfairy handle that?

I've considered that already. The device has a couple of ways to deal with it.

a) Undocumented configuration variable that changes the key timing for the remote (in all of the existing ps3toothfairy devices)

a) There is a sequence programmed into the ps3toothfairy that you can control via the configuration, refer to the poweroff macro in the manual. You'll notice that there are large gaps in the documented numbers. Those are to fill in the blanks when/if the sequence changes (all existing ps3toothfairy devices)

b) I am currently working on a new firmware for the ps3toothfairy that will have a fully programmable macro capability. This will be far beyond the normal record and playback. It will have the timing integrated into the key sequences so there is no "hold the key" required. Its quite ambitious, but I am making headway in this area. Basically, you would enter config mode and then do something like PS 2 3 PS 6 2, etc. I'd publish the sequences and the meaning so you could craft/share your own version of the shutdown macro. (probably in the next production run).

Thanks everyone, let me know if you have other questions! Again sorry for the delayed response.
post #82 of 461
Thanks so much for your response.

Will existing boxes be upgradeable to the new firmware you are working on? Or just new versions you ship? I haven't purchased yet, still waiting for new stock to go on sale

Thanks again.
post #83 of 461
Thread Starter 
The new firmware doesn't (yet) add anything new to the devices -- The reason for the change was to handle a lower voltage controller. In the process, I made the code a little more space efficient.

New ps3toothfairy devices should be ready very soon. The boards are already assembled, but I haven't verified them yet. Once I can program a few and check them out, then we can take some more orders.
post #84 of 461
Will older units be firmware upgradeable? Thanks.
post #85 of 461
Thread Starter 
Hi Everyone, sorry it has taken me some time to get back. The new units are in my hands and are being checked out. So far the build quality is excellent, so I don't anticipate any problems. I'll probably place them up for sale in the next day or two. The USB cable is still not listed, and is going to take a little longer, but I'll allow you to order them and just hold your order until I get them in. NOTE: DO NOT USE THE USB CABLE WITH THE PS3 USB ... The PS3 turns off its usb, so the whole device won't work once the PS3 is turned off. The first time, the top model (that I called the elite) sold out first, so I have many more of those available this time around. As I mentioned, I will also give you the option of the elite w/o the Sony module and you put your own in. Advantage is you will probably get it faster and it is less spendy -- ZERO difference in functionality.

All units are firmware upgradeable, but not really in the field. I'd have to make the code available (or somebody enterprising could just reverse engineer the hardware and make their own firmware available). and you would need a simple dongle to upgrade them. The "patches" that I have done so far are actually small snippets of code in the firmware already and I give you a configuration parameter to tell the device and then it will execute a different set of instructions. That exists in all the units so far and is the same. Only 1 customer so far has wanted to try it.
post #86 of 461
Do you have an ETA of when the standard units will be up in the store? I noticed you have Elites and Bare Elites up now. I'm wanting a standard unit (not bare). Thanks.
post #87 of 461
Thread Starter 
Hi Zildjian, we aren't making them anymore because there was such low demand. But we do have some extras from a previous run that we are checking out. Please send an email via the contact page, and I can respond when we have them checked out. The demand of Elites was about 10x that of the standard.
post #88 of 461
Thread Starter 
My wife and I have a new baby so we have been incredibly busy.

However, I have not forgotten about the ps3toothfairy. A large portion of my time was spent working on the ps3toothfairy firmware. The code was optimized to make room for a sequence engine. Now you can program your own shutdown macro to do whatever you like.

This is not a "macro recorder", it is an engine, so you give it the key, the "hold time" and the "next key time" and it saves your entry, up to 24 buttons. All the combo keys are supported. In the future if for instance the shutdown sequence changes, you could press a sequence of keys to learn an entirely new shutdown macro.

For example, when setting up a macro, you press PS, Play, Play. When the ps3toothfairy is activated, it would press the PS key, hold it for 3s, then release it and wait 3s before the next key.

As always, thanks everyone for your support
Ayman
post #89 of 461
Thread Starter 
Hi All, So some of the posts have been lost, so I'll try to address some of the questions here:

AFAIK, the Logitech/Harmony problem has yet to be solved. Instead of reiterating the alternate pairing sequence (available on all devices), I've put the instructions on the ps3toothfairy support page.

The USB power cables will be in stock sometime on Tuesday (US/Central). Probably in the afternoon. Also, the next shipment of ps3toothfairy devices has arrived and they have already been checked out. I've updated the store to reflect the new stock. Currently orders are going out the next business day (in some cases the same day if you order early enough).

The new programmable shut-down macro is not fully documented on the site, but all V2 units have this ability. In general, you can program your own macro to do a shutdown or you can use the built in macro. In the future, if the PS3 were to change the shut down sequence, I'll publish a new macro on the site and you just push the buttons to reprogram the ps3toothfairy. Details will come soon on how to do your own. The built-in and user shutdown macro can coexist. So for instance, you could have both in the device and switch between them without rewriting the macro. It also doesn't get erased when you perform a factory reset.

Another user asked about the "Power Track" ability. This feature is in all ps3toothfairy devices shipped so far. In a nutshell when you enable this function, the ps3toothfairy will not send any commands to the PS3 unless it first sees a "PS" key (telling it to turn on). It knows that it turned off when the ps3toothfairy sees the "Power Off" command and sends the shutdown macro. This feature works irrespective of what macro you program or what shutdown sequence you elect to use. You will know when the ps3toothfairy is not sending commands because it will blink 5 times very quickly if it is in "power off" mode. To turn the PS3 on, just hit PS again.

Lastly, Thanks David for the compliments and I am glad you are happy with the ps3toothfairy (his post is lost, but I wanted to acknowledge it anyway).

Thanks
Ayman
post #90 of 461
Thread Starter 
By way of Google Cache, I am able to answer some of the questions that I missed when the forums had trouble:

First, thanks again David for the nice words, David said:
Quote:


Congrats on the new baby Ayman!

I am impressed that you have been able to keep up with your duties as a father and a husband and still continue to turn out awesome updates for the PS3TF!

I'm looking forward to meeting you in a few weeks.

For anyone who is interested but not sure about the PS3TF... get one. Don't hesitate. It works wonderfully, and Ayman's support will ensure that it will continue to be that way regardless of what Sony changes in the future.
__________________
David
Fightin' Texas Aggie Class of 2002! Whoop!

Here is the cache link that might work for a couple of days
http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=3&gl=us

Quote:


Congratulation on the new addition, Ayman!

I was about to purchase the ELITE, but don't see the USB-A power cable anywhere. Any idea when it will become available?

Yes, they are in now. I'll upload them to the store tonight, but it worked great and it is a much higher quality cable. It is tough to find good quality reasonably priced cables, but this one has both those attributes.

I'll follow up with a photo of the cable. Just remember that the PS3 USB port is not always on, so you want to plug it into another port (Tivo / Sat Box, etc). It is 1M (3') in length.

Quote:


All units are programmable in that you can setup the keys how you like, device address, which macro is executed (all units have a couple of built in macros), led brightness, etc.

All units also emulate the full protocol, they can all press any "combo" key, hold a key while pressing another, etc.

The V2 units have the added ability to program your own shutdown macro. That is the only difference.


Hope this addresses all the questions, note that I now have built up some inventory, so 90+ % of orders are going out the next day.
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