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Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Calibration Thread (Updated first post) - Page 59

post #1741 of 2470
1/6/09 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpotturi View Post

Do this forum a favor. Please enlighten us on how you hit reset.

I think he meant in the user menu, not sm
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post #1742 of 2470
1/6/09 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I think he meant in the user menu, not sm

His post appeared in the midst of SM settings discussion. Thats why I thought he was referring to SM. May be you are right. He might have just meant resetting it on the user menu.
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post #1743 of 2470
1/6/09 at 12:28pm
An unanswered question:

On these Panasonics, is 50% 0 or is 0% 0 for sharpness?
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post #1744 of 2470
1/6/09 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I am an engineer as well, so I know what you mean!



I do not think there is a SM reset unfortunately.

I found the following on the last page of a Panasonic "Technical Guide" for models PZ80U, PZ85U, PZ800U and PZ850U:

Reset Procedure

To Reset the Unit, turn the TV on and while pressing the VOLUME ( - ) button on the main unit, press the Menu button on the remote control for more than 3 seconds. The Self-Check menu appears on screen. Then, disconnect the AC cord from the wall outlet.

Note: All customer programmed parameters will be erased.

I haven't actually tried this myself so I can't vouch for it.
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post #1745 of 2470
1/6/09 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by netBEUI View Post

I found the following on the last page of a Panasonic "Technical Guide" for models PZ80U, PZ85U, PZ800U and PZ850U:

Reset Procedure

To Reset the Unit, turn the TV on and while pressing the VOLUME ( - ) button on the main unit, press the Menu button on the remote control for more than 3 seconds. The Self-Check menu appears on screen. Then, disconnect the AC cord from the wall outlet.

Note: All customer programmed parameters will be erased.

I haven't actually tried this myself so I can't vouch for it.

wow, who'll be the first to try this
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post #1746 of 2470
1/6/09 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkmail View Post

wow, who'll be the first to try this

Not me.. sounds dangerous!
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post #1747 of 2470
1/6/09 at 2:18pm
thanks so much to everybody for all the info on these boards. for christmas i bought the 46" panny 80U (costco version) for my new place. i downloaded the break in images and have run them on an SD card as well as watched some full screen movies (Planet Earth HD-DVD) for a total of almost 200 hours according to the timer in the service menu.

anyway, i've used some of the setting posted by various members and really love the picture clarity and quality of the set. however, while trying out all the different blu-ray and hd-dvds i have i've noticed that the blacks have a grey tint to them. its not noticeable when the screen is full of images which i figure is because the of the contrast between the bright images makes the black look darker. however, on screens that are predominately black you can see the grey and the blacks aren't deep. a good example is on HP: The order of the phoenix HD disk when the WB logo comes towards you in the beginning. another is in the beginning of the dark knight bluray, and also throughout the darker scenes of the movie.

so my question is, how dark should the black levels be? i've heard so much about how plasmas have better black levels which is why i chose it. should it be pitch black or is some lightness in the black level due to the technological limitation of plasma? will tweaking the service menu or getting it professionally calibrated help?

thanks for the input.
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post #1748 of 2470
1/6/09 at 2:41pm
Pro calibration will not make the black levels any darker... The only thing that might is buying a Pioneer Kuro.

If you want to try to make the blacks appear darker, you can try getting a backlight for your set. Its been discussed in depth on this forum and if you do a search you'll find plenty of info on it. Probably even plenty in this thread...
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post #1749 of 2470
1/6/09 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by B_S View Post

Pro calibration will not make the black levels any darker... The only thing that might is buying a Pioneer Kuro.

If you want to try to make the blacks appear darker, you can try getting a backlight for your set. Its been discussed in depth on this forum and if you do a search you'll find plenty of info on it. Probably even plenty in this thread...

i am actually about to order a back light, cinemaquest i believe. i'm definitely happy with the picture as is, however. thanks for the reply.
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post #1750 of 2470
1/6/09 at 3:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dat1978 View Post

i am actually about to order a back light, cinemaquest i believe. i'm definitely happy with the picture as is, however. thanks for the reply.

Cinemaquest is a good place. My ISF calibrator told me to get one from there too
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post #1751 of 2470
1/6/09 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dat1978 View Post

anyway, i've used some of the setting posted by various members

That's probably a mistake (for more info see the "Sharing considered harmful" thread here:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...70&postcount=1). Instead download one of the test discs and set your black level in your viewing environment using Cinema/Warm. Set white too if you're up for it otherwise just set it to 50.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dat1978 View Post

however, on screens that are predominately black you can see the grey and the blacks aren't deep.
so my question is, how dark should the black levels be? i've heard so much about how plasmas have better black levels which is why i chose it. should it be pitch black or is some lightness in the black level due to the technological limitation of plasma? will tweaking the service menu or getting it professionally calibrated help? .

The best would be if you had something bright (like an lcd) to compare with but you probably don't. Try this anyway.

Set your room lighting to your preferred level. Turn your Picture and Brightness controls all the way down and select an input with nothing connected. That's about as dark as the display can get (you might need to turn off the no-signal shutdown). See what you think. Under these circumstances my old RP-LCD would light up a dark room. Now turn on the Scrolling bar and observe the apparent contrast. See what you think.

The PZ has been reliably reported to have good black and very good constrast but a big part of taking advantage of any display is giving your brain a chance to get used to reasonable settings.

And yes, bias lighting will help a lot. Sadly that damn shiny bezel is inky black which can introduce an unwanted visual distraction as an unrealistic black comparison (and as a source of reflections).
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post #1752 of 2470
1/6/09 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodosom View Post

That's probably a mistake (for more info see the "Sharing considered harmful" thread here:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...70&postcount=1). Instead download one of the test discs and set your black level in your viewing environment using Cinema/Warm. Set white too if you're up for it otherwise just set it to 50.



The best would be if you had something bright (like an lcd) to compare with but you probably don't. Try this anyway.

Set your room lighting to your preferred level. Turn your Picture and Brightness controls all the way down and select an input with nothing connected. That's about as dark as the display can get (you might need to turn off the no-signal shutdown). See what you think. Under these circumstances my old RP-LCD would light up a dark room. Now turn on the Scrolling bar and observe the apparent contrast. See what you think.

The PZ has been reliably reported to have good black and very good constrast but a big part of taking advantage of any display is giving your brain a chance to get used to reasonable settings.

And yes, bias lighting will help a lot. Sadly that damn shiny bezel is inky black which can introduce an unwanted visual distraction as an unrealistic black comparison (and as a source of reflections).

well, the costco version has a flat black bezel so that's not a concern. thanks very much for you suggestions. one question though, what test discs are you talking about?
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post #1753 of 2470
1/6/09 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpotturi View Post

Do this forum a favor. Please enlighten us on how you hit reset.

Oh.. sorry, just reset on the individual menu.. and I was wrong anyway. I thought reset affected every mode (cinema/game/custom..) but it's each one individually (reset above the mode) It wasn't a SM reset.

As it was when I REALLY reset standard it was far too dark (less contrasty) again...

I've gotta get some blue filters to really calibrate this thing..
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post #1754 of 2470
1/6/09 at 9:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

Don't be so quick to use someone's SM settings. If you are going to change SM settings, I would suggest look at the difference between that users before and after and make your changes based on that.

Before you do any changes the drives and cuts, make sure you have rid your TV of black and white clipping. Don't go to the point of clipping, especially with the picture setting for the whites. Drop back a few notches so that you can comfortably view the screen and see a gradual increase throughout the gray-scale. This will make sure you don't see any blooming. My picture setting went from 67 to 51 and it made a world of difference. I can comfortable view my TV without blinding my eyes and the whites look much more full since there is no bloom effect. This will also create more 'pop'. Trust me. Granted the whites may have looked "more white" with a higher picture setting, i can hardly tell the difference.

After that (probably will have a lower picture setting than you anticipated), think about changing the cuts and drives..

When to talk about Whites "clipping" and "blooming" are you using DVE to do this or just eyeballing it? I have a copy of the non BD DVE but have a BD hooked up via HDMI and I can't get the picture(contrast) or the sharpness to do anything , Brightness and color are the only thing that I can get to adjust.If you can please give alittle more detail on how you are arriving to your proper black and white "clipping" adjustments to "see gradual changes thoughout the gray scale"? Thanks
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post #1755 of 2470
1/6/09 at 10:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dat1978 View Post

what test discs are you talking about?

Tom Huffman has a disc, there are raw files at www.w6rz.net, this forum has the AVS HD disc and GetGray (not free). Some folks like Avia II or the Digital Video Essentials (DVE, SD and HD) which can be purchased or perhaps rented at Netflix. They all serve somewhat different niches.

Given a set of images you can use the checkerboard and crossed ramp contrast patterns for quick assessment of contrast and getting a "feel" for overall range. A PZ should have no trouble making these patterns look great under decent light.
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post #1756 of 2470
1/7/09 at 7:14am
Hi, I'm getting my new 46pz85U today and I have a question about the break in period. So, can I just use Tom's settings for break in and just change the picture and brightness to 50? Are there any other sub menu items that need to be changed? Thanks!!

Cinema
Picture: 60
Brightness: 52
Color: 41
Tint: -2
Sharpness: 50
Color Temp: Warm
Black Level: Light
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post #1757 of 2470
1/7/09 at 8:54am
I just joined this forum after reading this entire thread to get acquainted with my new Panny PZ80- you guys have a great forum here. Terrific info from everyone.

Just to share my own experiences with the PZ80, I ordered the DVE NTSC disc and used it to calibrate through the user menu (not the service menu). The blue was off a little from the factory, and I also experienced the same oversaturated red and green and others here. The user tint control was unable to correct all three at once, so I set the blue using the tint control and blue filter, then dropped the color to about 43 to fix the red and green- it's almost perfect.

After switching to Cinema mode (thanks for the tip, everyone!) and calibrating like above, the picture is phenomenal. I switched back to the factory VIVID and was horrified by the quality. I'm at about 200 hours, so I think the set should maintain the levels it's at now.

I'll post my exact settings later, and thanks again for the great forum.
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post #1758 of 2470
1/7/09 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanging Ten View Post

When to talk about Whites "clipping" and "blooming" are you using DVE to do this or just eyeballing it? I have a copy of the non BD DVE but have a BD hooked up via HDMI and I can't get the picture(contrast) or the sharpness to do anything , Brightness and color are the only thing that I can get to adjust.If you can please give alittle more detail on how you are arriving to your proper black and white "clipping" adjustments to "see gradual changes thoughout the gray scale"? Thanks

I used the AVCHD disc (found on this forum) and a DVE disc (ISF calibrator brought it over). For this panel the free AVCHD disck is fine.

On each disc there is a test which will have blinking grays against a white and black background. Use this to set brightness and picture. After this, you can look at a gray-scale (also on these discs) and lower the picture setting some more until there is a uniform gray scale. The highest white may not match the reference white, that is okay. You'll be happier with the fact that will be no white clipping and blooming and probably won't notice that the whites slightly discolored.
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post #1759 of 2470
1/7/09 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanging Ten View Post

I have a copy of the non BD DVE but have a BD hooked up via HDMI and I can't get the picture(contrast) or the sharpness to do anything

I don't know what the SD DVE disc does but GetGray sets black and white levels using fields rather than windows. This makes it difficult to get the panel to 100% so setting by eye will get Picture over 90 or even more. This might explain why you don't see much change at the higher settings (if you don't see any diffence between Picture at 0 and Picture at 50 you have a different problem). Without careful examination of HD test patterns you're unlikely to see the effect of Sharpness.
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post #1760 of 2470
1/7/09 at 11:06am
I recently purchases a Panasonic 58pz850u and have over a 100 hours on it. I did a quick calibration with a DVE disk and am ready for the next step.

I have read this forum and "Grayscale Calibration for Dummies" and am leaning toward getting the Eye-One Display 2 with the Calman software package. I don't plan on doing this as a profession but only for my home TVs. Their are also several free downloadable sofware packages available on this site and others.

My question is it worth the extra $60-70 to buy the package deal or just buy the Display 2 on-line and use the free software? Keep in mind the "Dummies" part is what attracted me to the article.

Any other options I should consider?

.............Thanks
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post #1761 of 2470
1/7/09 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amsav View Post

I recently purchases a Panasonic 58pz850u and have over a 100 hours on it. I did a quick calibration with a DVE disk and am ready for the next step.

I have read this forum and "Grayscale Calibration for Dummies" and am leaning toward getting the Eye-One Display 2 with the Calman software package. I don't plan on doing this as a profession but only for my home TVs. Their are also several free downloadable sofware packages available on this site and others.

My question is it worth the extra $60-70 to buy the package deal or just buy the Display 2 on-line and use the free software? Keep in mind the "Dummies" part is what attracted me to the article.

Any other options I should consider?

.............Thanks

I just ordered the Display LT (the same sensor as the Display 2, just w/o the software). I couldn't justify the extra money (~$100 from what I saw) for the Calman software when the "For Dummies" guide is so good and straightforward.

Also, these (at least my PZ80) Panasonics don't have as much to tweak as some other TVs (only grayscale, though the grayscale is very important), so I didn't want to spend too much money.
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post #1762 of 2470
1/7/09 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dat1978 View Post

thanks so much to everybody for all the info on these boards. for christmas i bought the 46" panny 80U (costco version) for my new place. i downloaded the break in images and have run them on an SD card as well as watched some full screen movies (Planet Earth HD-DVD) for a total of almost 200 hours according to the timer in the service menu.

anyway, i've used some of the setting posted by various members and really love the picture clarity and quality of the set. however, while trying out all the different blu-ray and hd-dvds i have i've noticed that the blacks have a grey tint to them. its not noticeable when the screen is full of images which i figure is because the of the contrast between the bright images makes the black look darker. however, on screens that are predominately black you can see the grey and the blacks aren't deep. a good example is on HP: The order of the phoenix HD disk when the WB logo comes towards you in the beginning. another is in the beginning of the dark knight bluray, and also throughout the darker scenes of the movie.

so my question is, how dark should the black levels be? i've heard so much about how plasmas have better black levels which is why i chose it. should it be pitch black or is some lightness in the black level due to the technological limitation of plasma? will tweaking the service menu or getting it professionally calibrated help?

thanks for the input.

I know that nobody here dare use this but i do and I must say that for the majority of my viewing I like it better.
I lately have been using the 'Dark' black level setting w/ an increased brightness. This obviously makes the blacks more inky but also eliminates that sometimes faded background look and makes colors pop more. If you are unsatisfied w/ your black levels, it doesn't hurt to try it. Sometimes if you are watching a movie w/ lots and lots of dark/night scenes, you may want to revert back to light to avoid the slight crushing that can occur at this setting.

I currently use (w/ black level set to dark):

Cinema
pic: 54
bright: 56 - 75 (depending on what I'm watching, brighter if lot's of dark scenes)
color: 38-44 (depending on material/type of program - higher for nature shows)
tint: 0
sharp: 50
temp: warm
clr mgmt: usually off but occasionally on for nature shows and football games if the field looks extremely washed out
x.v.: auto
else: off
black level: DARK

Give it a shot and mess with the settings for various shows and see if you like it better. I would say I use this for 75%+ of what I watch. Let me know what you think!
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post #1763 of 2470
1/7/09 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I am an engineer as well, so I know what you mean!


As am I. I mess around with my settings every day even though they look good...always trying to get it a little better.
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post #1764 of 2470
1/7/09 at 12:54pm
Glad to see someone utilizing the dark blacks. I'm waiting for the DVE but in the meantime I'm constantly playing with the settings and I do enjoy the dark setting although it'll be fine for one program then crush too much on th enext (I was watching a college football game on ESPN.. gorgeous. Switched to NCIS on USAHD and all of a sudden it was floating heads in ink) Kinda wish we had the option of saved settings in each mode.
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post #1765 of 2470
1/7/09 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNova222 View Post

Glad to see someone utilizing the dark blacks. I'm waiting for the DVE but in the meantime I'm constantly playing with the settings and I do enjoy the dark setting although it'll be fine for one program then crush too much on th enext (I was watching a college football game on ESPN.. gorgeous. Switched to NCIS on USAHD and all of a sudden it was floating heads in ink) Kinda wish we had the option of saved settings in each mode.

I know what you're saying...some shows it's much better but than for some it's waaaay too dark. It's a bit of a hassle to have to constantly switch black level and brightness depending on the show...but then again it is so worth it to get that great picture.
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post #1766 of 2470
1/7/09 at 1:29pm
I noticed watching Conan the other night, the picture looked a little dull, I switched to dark black and it was a marked improvment, it really came to life. As soon as I switched to another program had to go back to light black. Last night same thing.
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post #1767 of 2470
1/7/09 at 1:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amsav View Post

I have read this forum and "Grayscale Calibration for Dummies" and am leaning toward getting the Eye-One Display 2 with the Calman software package. I don't plan on doing this as a profession but only for my home TVs. Their are also several free downloadable sofware packages available on this site and others.

My question is it worth the extra $60-70 to buy the package deal or just buy the Display 2 on-line and use the free software? Keep in mind the "Dummies" part is what attracted me to the article.

Any other options I should consider?

.............Thanks

See this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1102255

I would also consider the Chroma 5 bundle if you're serious about calibrating a plasma.
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post #1768 of 2470
1/7/09 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

I used the AVCHD disc (found on this forum) and a DVE disc (ISF calibrator brought it over). For this panel the free AVCHD disck is fine.

Here's the thread with AVSHD downloads:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

There is a PDF attached which explains how to use the test patterns.
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post #1769 of 2470
1/7/09 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tld View Post

I'm surprised at how high most peoples Picture settings are here.
... here's what we ended up with:

Custom
Temp: Normal
Picture: +46
Brightness: +44
Color: +49
Tint: -5
Sharpness: +40

Granted, he has a good viewing environment (very dark), but it's still hard for me to understand all the +70 picture settings I'm seeing here. That's a huge difference.

Tom, a couple of points:

1) Are you saying with picture above 46 the set starts to crush white?

2) If not, and you're doing some sort of subjective test then you shouldn't be surprised.

3) The adjustment scale is very fine on this set so 46-70 is actually not that huge of a difference (like on a CRT).

4) Even with some lights on in the room you should still be able to set contrast (peak white) properly. In fact it might be easier to set with peripheral lighting because your eyes don't shut down from staring at a bright white box.
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post #1770 of 2470
1/7/09 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrady3324 View Post

An unanswered question:

On these Panasonics, is 50% 0 or is 0% 0 for sharpness?

I think 50, the default for Cinema, is good for the PZ. Some users may arrive at less than 50 because they are compensating for excessive sharpness in their source component. I don't have the definitive answer but I did try going lower (my initial reaction to any set is to turn it right off) but it had to come back up to 50.

I also noticed that the PX users tend to go lower - not sure if that means the null setting is further down (eg: 25) or not.
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Plasma Flat Panel Displays › Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Calibration Thread (Updated first post)