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Panasonic PZ80/PZ85 Calibration Thread (Updated first post) - Page 12

post #331 of 2470
6/1/08 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj121391 View Post

Your really gonna love his work, he calibrated my panny plasma a couple weeks ago and also my 65" Tosh DLP. Both sets are considerably better, and his knowledge is invalueable.


What mode did he calibrate the tv in?(cinema, custom, etc...)

Was that his first 85u calibration?
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post #332 of 2470
6/1/08 at 11:04am
I'm finding that the PQ of HDTV content fluctuates from channel to channel. ESPN can look great to decent depending on what's being broadcast at the time. However, The Food Network and National Geographic channels look amazing no matter what's on.

I'm on Verizon Fios and overall I'm happy with the way most of the channels are looking so far.
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post #333 of 2470
6/1/08 at 11:12am
Fios is great, with D* and then Dish in 2nd and 3rd. People dont realize that feeds vary, and when evaluating a tv's pq, you should use blu-ray(if possible) and a good OTA feed(not one thats starved because it has 3 sep feeds). ESPN has had issues for a few years, you can watch a college game at 3:30 that look awesome, then you get a 8pm game that looks like crap.

Now that food and hgtv have combined their sd and hd feeds, im pretty irritated with them because it seems I get more sd than hd.

Im happy with Dish Network, but Id never use it decide on a tv's PQ, Blu-ray at 1080p is a good litmus test.
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post #334 of 2470
6/1/08 at 12:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

Fios is great, with D* and then Dish in 2nd and 3rd. People dont realize that feeds vary, and when evaluating a tv's pq, you should use blu-ray(if possible) and a good OTA feed(not one thats starved because it has 3 sep feeds). ESPN has had issues for a few years, you can watch a college game at 3:30 that look awesome, then you get a 8pm game that looks like crap.

Now that food and hgtv have combined their sd and hd feeds, im pretty irritated with them because it seems I get more sd than hd.

Im happy with Dish Network, but Id never use it decide on a tv's PQ, Blu-ray at 1080p is a good litmus test.


That's interesting because I remember being told that blu-ray is not a good litmus test because, as a very clean source, it looks sharp on most displays. I was told that seeing how a TV cleans up a ****** source is a much better test. Feel free to correct me if this is wrong.

Regarding video noise, I wonder how many people experiencing it are plugging their TV and components directly into a wall outlet or cheap 6-way... I also wonder how many people experiencing video noise live in apartment complexes. The power in a multi-unit complex is much more likely to fluctuate than at a single-family detached home. I would venture to guess that people who live in homes and using a nice power conditioner may possibly experience less video noise. The difference could also be negligible... this is just a thought.

In addition, I bought a nice receiver with video processing (Pio 94-txh) and am curious to see if it is capable of reducing noise on an 85U in custom or game mode.
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post #335 of 2470
6/1/08 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

What mode did he calibrate the tv in?(cinema, custom, etc...)

Was that his first 85u calibration?

He calibrated in Cinema Mode, I didn't ask him if this was his 1st 85u but I did ask him how many sets a year he did...reply was 250-350. So with those number you are looking at a very experienced man.
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post #336 of 2470
6/1/08 at 12:21pm
That actually makes sense about blu-ray. My meaning was more along the lines of finding a good source to evaluate. Many times the store feed is not the right place. I know that the 85u handles OTA HD VERY well, so any issues I see on sat channels leads me to believe its either compression by dish or the channel itself. As far as a noisy channel, I wouldnt think the tv can clean it up much, **** it = **** out

Ive been very curious about a power conditioner, I know these tv's use some juice.
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post #337 of 2470
6/1/08 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj121391 View Post

He calibrated in Cinema Mode, I didn't ask him if this was his 1st 85u but I did ask him how many sets a year he did...reply was 250-350. So with those number you are looking at a very experienced man.


He might have already seen everyones comments on cinema, im sure he reads here. Well, if you were his first, at least he got to practice on yours
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post #338 of 2470
6/1/08 at 12:24pm
All ISF professional calibrate by source..e.g. blu-ray, hd-dvd, ps3 never by over the air broadcast too much variations of feeds/
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post #339 of 2470
6/1/08 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

He might have already seen everyones comments on cinema, im sure he reads here. Well, if you were his first, at least he got to practice on yours

He found my panny very accurate I could send you summary page if you like?
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post #340 of 2470
6/1/08 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj121391 View Post

He found my panny very accurate I could send you summary page if you like?


If you dont mind, i'd just like to see it.
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post #341 of 2470
6/1/08 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

If you dont mind, i'd just like to see it.

PM me your E-mail its alot easier
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post #342 of 2470
6/1/08 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElwayLite View Post

I just used DVE for custom

pic 60
bright 50
color 44
warm

Using nascar and tennis (HD OTA), custom is noisier than cinema. When I use Cinema, I see ZERO noise. I never have an issue with the brightness of Cinema, so Ill just leave it. The tv is getting calibrated in 4 weeks or so, so I wont have anything to worry about then

I think I asked you before..but what is meant by Noise that you see while using Custom setting that you don't see in Cinema..

something you only see while close up or at your normal view distance..I am about 12 feet away..so I might not see it or if I do..I don't know that I am seeing it..

Marty
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post #343 of 2470
6/1/08 at 2:55pm
Im about 10 ft away. The noise causes the picture to be not as sharp, has more of a fuzzy feel to it. Also, peoples faces look claylike sometimes.
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post #344 of 2470
6/1/08 at 2:58pm
for the explanation...
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post #345 of 2470
6/1/08 at 11:41pm
Can anyone link me to a site where I can find a good ISF Professional Calibrater in my area? I live in Central Jersey 07747 and almost just went and got it done by Best Buy!!! Good thing I asked here about it first.
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post #346 of 2470
6/1/08 at 11:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aKa DaShiznit View Post

Can anyone link me to a site where I can find a good ISF Professional Calibrater in my area? I live in Central Jersey 07747 and almost just went and got it done by Best Buy!!! Good thing I asked here about it first.

Yeah... Best Buy is poop.

Check out: http://www.imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm

***Edit: What's pretty funny to me is that BB Geek Squad is now on the ISF list. Does that make anyone else question the legitimacy of the ISF on the whole?
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post #347 of 2470
6/2/08 at 12:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by danalmasy View Post

Yeah... Best Buy is poop.

Check out: http://www.imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm

***Edit: What's pretty funny to me is that BB Geek Squad is now on the ISF list. Does that make anyone else question the legitimacy of the ISF on the whole?


Wow Best Buy is on there. As I stated earlier I have a good friend who wants to calibrate my tv for nothing and he is from Best Buy Geek Squad. Is it possible he was properly trained and may do a good job? for free?

I don't mind paying for soemone who's a real pro at this stuff and I do want it done right, but do I just blindly choose from the list and hope I get soemone good? and how often does the set need to be calibrated? just once? or again a few years down the road?

Thanks for the reply and sorry if I'm asking stupid questions.
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post #348 of 2470
6/2/08 at 2:28am
Purchased a 50PZ85U the other day, and it should be here by thursday or friday.

This will be my first HDTV so I am ignorant about everything. Someone recommended this site and I have been spending the past couple of days reading everything I can here and other places.

I do have a couple newbie questions though involving the break in period.

Would Tom's settings be good for the first 100? I saw a few people post that they break it in at lower levels and then have to up them a bit after the first 100-200. Just making sure his settings would be a ok starting point.

I understand avoiding games because of the possiblity of static images burning in. If I were careful to play something without a static image I am assuming that would be ok?

I am planning on just leaving the TV on a high color channel like Disc or History channel for the whole weekend when I am not watching it. Like I said I am ignorant, so I don't know if that would be a bad idea to have it on too much. I don't know if they overheat, or every couple of hours I should turn it off bit a hour or something. I really don't know.

Side question. I am planning on buying a Blue-ray to go with it. As far as quality of picture is concerned, is there any reason not to get a PS3 over a standalone Blue-ray player? I get a discount through Panasonic. So the standalone would be a bit cheaper. I know I can play games on a PS3, but my question is just about how they both play Blue-ray vs each other.

Thanks for anyone that answers.
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post #349 of 2470
6/2/08 at 2:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aKa DaShiznit View Post

Quick question reguarding Calibration...I have a friend that does it for Best Buy and will pretty much do it for free. Is this ok or is it nothing like an ISF certified person or whatever? I'm willing to pay the money if a real pro is gonna do something different and better than a dude from Best Buy. I don't wanna insult my friend and ask him if he's good and I know he'll pay extra attention to my set but I just wonder is Best Buy's service the same?

I don't think you can make any statements/judgements one way or the other about calibrations from Best Buy being poor or good - I've seen examples of both.

You also can't make any judgements about someone who is ISF trained automatically being better than someone doing calibrations for BB. I'dsay there's a better chance of an independent calibrator being better than a BB calibrator, but there are enough exceptions on both sides that it would be a mistake to say you're always going to do better one way or the other.

Something else to consider... there are ISF calibrators who use the same equipment the BB calibrators use. But there are ISF calibrators who use meters that are significantly better (and more expensive) than the equipment used by many (probably most) calibrators. When you get into the Konica-Minolta CS-200 and the Photo Research PR-650 or higher, you are at $10,000 or more just for the meter.

I also wouldn't necessarily use the number of calibrations performed per year as an indicator of much of anything - it may be iteresing, but, alone it really doesn't tell you much. And... if someone HAS calibrated 300 displays in a year... there could have been 300 different models. It's possible he never did the same model 2 times. Not likely, but possible.

There's no one way to know for sure you're going to get the best possible calibration in advance. I wish I could offer something that would remove the mystery, but today there just isn't anything.

For the Panasonics in this thread, you could ask a calibrator if he will be able to make the primaries and secondaries accurate. If he says yes... well, he's not familiar with these panel because there are no adjustments available to make the primaries and secondaries accurate. And Cinema mode produces the best images on these panels, so you could ask him if he calibrates these panels in Standard, Custom, or Cinema mode and if he says something other than Cinema, that might raise a flag. You could ask if he makes measurements while in service menu mode... if he says yes... that's wrong because these panels measure very differently in service menu mode versus in nomal user menu mode so you have to measure in user mode and make setting changes in service menu mode. Making measurements while in the service menu won't get you a good calibration for these panels. Though there is an exception... some calibrtors may measure "offsets" between user mode and service menu mode and apply those offsets so the service menu measurements are accurate - it's a pain to do manually, but 1 or 2 software packages allow you to set this up to make it easier to calibrate without having to enter and leave the service menu so many times.
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post #350 of 2470
6/2/08 at 3:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aKa DaShiznit View Post

Can anyone link me to a site where I can find a good ISF Professional Calibrater in my area? I live in Central Jersey 07747 and almost just went and got it done by Best Buy!!! Good thing I asked here about it first.

Here's who did mine and I also live in Central Jersey

http://www.lionav.com/
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post #351 of 2470
6/2/08 at 4:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerL View Post

Purchased a 50PZ85U the other day, and it should be here by thursday or friday.

This will be my first HDTV so I am ignorant about everything. Someone recommended this site and I have been spending the past couple of days reading everything I can here and other places.

I do have a couple newbie questions though involving the break in period.

Would Tom's settings be good for the first 100? I saw a few people post that they break it in at lower levels and then have to up them a bit after the first 100-200. Just making sure his settings would be a ok starting point.

I understand avoiding games because of the possiblity of static images burning in. If I were careful to play something without a static image I am assuming that would be ok?

I am planning on just leaving the TV on a high color channel like Disc or History channel for the whole weekend when I am not watching it. Like I said I am ignorant, so I don't know if that would be a bad idea to have it on too much. I don't know if they overheat, or every couple of hours I should turn it off bit a hour or something. I really don't know.

Side question. I am planning on buying a Blue-ray to go with it. As far as quality of picture is concerned, is there any reason not to get a PS3 over a standalone Blue-ray player? I get a discount through Panasonic. So the standalone would be a bit cheaper. I know I can play games on a PS3, but my question is just about how they both play Blue-ray vs each other.

Thanks for anyone that answers.

Tom's settings are indeed designed for break-in use and will work just fine in the first 100 or so hours. You can then begin cranking up the picture setting after the first 100. I also bought a new ps3 to go with the tv and the ps3 is a great bd player; among the best and offers so much more than just a bd player. it's a stone-cold steal at 399-run, don't walk, to your nearest seller and get one. i got mine off craigslist for 350 and it included spiderman and a game and an extra controller.

I continue to believe the best way to break in your new plasma will be with the break-in dvd. you can search through the thread for the link. if you can't find it and get desperate, pm me and I'll send you mine.
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post #352 of 2470
6/2/08 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by StuJac View Post

Tom's settings are indeed designed for break-in use and will work just fine in the first 100 or so hours. You can then begin cranking up the picture setting after the first 100. I also bought a new ps3 to go with the tv and the ps3 is a great bd player; among the best and offers so much more than just a bd player. it's a stone-cold steal at 399-run, don't walk, to your nearest seller and get one. i got mine off craigslist for 350 and it included spiderman and a game and an extra controller.

I continue to believe the best way to break in your new plasma will be with the break-in dvd. you can search through the thread for the link. if you can't find it and get desperate, pm me and I'll send you mine.

I'm using a SD card with the zip file of 1080p images posted up on the break-in dvd site. Put it in the panny, set to cycle images every 1 second and you're good to go with no need to waste power on the ps3 or a dvd player.
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post #353 of 2470
6/2/08 at 10:50am
Um...ok-I guess that'll do.
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post #354 of 2470
6/2/08 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pj121391 View Post

Here's who did mine and I also live in Central Jersey

http://www.lionav.com/

Thanks for the link...May I ask what exactly they did for you? It says 3 inputs but don't the settings for each mode stay the same reguardless of input unless they use custom mode? Isn't Cinema the best one to use for reasons of certain things being unchangable in the service menu?

I would love custom or standard to be set differently for use when gaming or maybe they can calibrate using game mode? I'm new to this calibration stuff and just wanna make sure I ask for the right stuff to be done and that the display is at its best for what ever I am using wether it be my 360 or PS3/Blu-ray.
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post #355 of 2470
6/2/08 at 10:59am
Thanks for the reply Doug...really appriciate the info!!
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post #356 of 2470
6/2/08 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aKa DaShiznit View Post

Thanks for the link...May I ask what exactly they did for you? It says 3 inputs but don't the settings for each mode stay the same reguardless of input unless they use custom mode? Isn't Cinema the best one to use for reasons of certain things being unchangable in the service menu?

I would love custom or standard to be set differently for use when gaming or maybe they can calibrate using game mode? I'm new to this calibration stuff and just wanna make sure I ask for the right stuff to be done and that the display is at its best for what ever I am using wether it be my 360 or PS3/Blu-ray.

When they talk about inputs they mean blu-ray, hd-dvd, ps3, oppo, etc.
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post #357 of 2470
6/2/08 at 6:19pm
Been messing around with settings in the PS3. These are the settings I came up with for the 50PZ85U after some research, testing, etc.


From PS3 Settings->Display settings:
Set video output to 1080P (duh)
Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White: On
RGB Full Range: Limited (tested using a RGB test pattern, FULL will crush the blacks badly)

PS3 Settings->BD/DVD Settings:
BD/DVD Video Output Format (HMDI): Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr
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post #358 of 2470
6/2/08 at 6:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

I don't think you can make any statements/judgements one way or the other about calibrations from Best Buy being poor or good - I've seen examples of both.

You also can't make any judgements about someone who is ISF trained automatically being better than someone doing calibrations for BB. I'dsay there's a better chance of an independent calibrator being better than a BB calibrator, but there are enough exceptions on both sides that it would be a mistake to say you're always going to do better one way or the other.

Something else to consider... there are ISF calibrators who use the same equipment the BB calibrators use. But there are ISF calibrators who use meters that are significantly better (and more expensive) than the equipment used by many (probably most) calibrators. When you get into the Konica-Minolta CS-200 and the Photo Research PR-650 or higher, you are at $10,000 or more just for the meter.

I also wouldn't necessarily use the number of calibrations performed per year as an indicator of much of anything - it may be iteresing, but, alone it really doesn't tell you much. And... if someone HAS calibrated 300 displays in a year... there could have been 300 different models. It's possible he never did the same model 2 times. Not likely, but possible.

There's no one way to know for sure you're going to get the best possible calibration in advance. I wish I could offer something that would remove the mystery, but today there just isn't anything.

For the Panasonics in this thread, you could ask a calibrator if he will be able to make the primaries and secondaries accurate. If he says yes... well, he's not familiar with these panel because there are no adjustments available to make the primaries and secondaries accurate. And Cinema mode produces the best images on these panels, so you could ask him if he calibrates these panels in Standard, Custom, or Cinema mode and if he says something other than Cinema, that might raise a flag. You could ask if he makes measurements while in service menu mode... if he says yes... that's wrong because these panels measure very differently in service menu mode versus in nomal user menu mode so you have to measure in user mode and make setting changes in service menu mode. Making measurements while in the service menu won't get you a good calibration for these panels. Though there is an exception... some calibrtors may measure "offsets" between user mode and service menu mode and apply those offsets so the service menu measurements are accurate - it's a pain to do manually, but 1 or 2 software packages allow you to set this up to make it easier to calibrate without having to enter and leave the service menu so many times.


So now my question to you would be- now that we know Best Buy Geek Squad is on the ISF trained list, is it still a better idea to choose someone else off the list? or better yet, would you choose someone at random or let your friend from Best Buy(ISF Certified) do it for free? You know more than me so I'm just trying to get some input and do appriciate any opinions.

I mean I understand a Pro does it for a living but I'm plagued with the question is Best Buy properly trained or not? and do I save $400 or not? Guess I can let my friend do it and if I'm not satisfied pay a Pro, but then I'm the kind of person that will wonder if it could be better and not know any better. I'm driving myself nuts about this.
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post #359 of 2470
6/2/08 at 6:46pm
I think youre best off finding someone on this site who services your area, this way you can speak with others about his work. These guys are like mechanics, not all are created equally.
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post #360 of 2470
6/2/08 at 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Blackburn View Post

You could ask if he makes measurements while in service menu mode... if he says yes... that's wrong because these panels measure very differently in service menu mode versus in nomal user menu mode so you have to measure in user mode and make setting changes in service menu mode. Making measurements while in the service menu won't get you a good calibration for these panels. Though there is an exception... some calibrtors may measure "offsets" between user mode and service menu mode and apply those offsets so the service menu measurements are accurate - it's a pain to do manually, but 1 or 2 software packages allow you to set this up to make it easier to calibrate without having to enter and leave the service menu so many times.

Doug,

Interesting that you brought this up. I'm learning the same thing while I was calibrating my PX80U.

Once the service menu is activated, the TV behaves pretty differently. I've been documenting it/talking through this in the calibration forum. While cycling through the pages of the service menu, the image seems to change visibly, with one of the pages displaying a noticeably higher gamma.

What's strange with the PX80U is that the set cannot track a gamma of 2.2 (more like 1.9) unless measured in the service mode. In the service mode, the dynamic range compresses, but gamma is dead nuts. Wonder if this is one of those things purposely crippled by the manufacturer on a lower model.

The grayscale nonlinearity that you've mentioned, when the max output is set below 32-33 ft-L, is also present on the PX80U. Interesting how similar the PX and PZ sets are.
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