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Official LNXXA550 Calibration/Settings Thread - Page 94

post #2791 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes2702 View Post

JCal, Cliq, etc. what is yalls opinion of the DVE in terms of calibration. My brother is about to get it so I was gonna borrow it. Would it be more accurate than just copying settings? Also I have heard that it often leaves the screen too dark after calibration. Do you guys know anything about that? I was always just gonna copy settings and then if I ever felt the need and had the money pay for professional calibration but since I may be able to use DVE I was wondering what yalls thoughts on the job it does are?

I used DVE HD Basics for grayscale and the AVC HD709 disc for the color management system... pretty much along the lines of Kal's Calibration for Dummies tutorial. If you are asking if I think that either of these discs have errors in their test signal levels that would directly cause an erroneously dark setup on a display.... no I do not. I DO believe that a properly calibrated display may seem dark to some folks who prefer or are just accustomed to seeing something else. THAT'S another question/debate with no definitive answer, lol, but I'm sure you can guess what the opinion will be for those of us who have been dabbling in the instumented calibration of our sets.

Personally, I have been around calibrated studio monitors for over 30 years and they seem perfectly natural to me... my home TV settings always mimicked them, even if they were only calibrated by eye using SMPTE color bars found on a broadcast or cable channel. By the same token, for those same 30 years visitors comments have run the gamut from proclaiming that my TV is the best they've ever seen to asking why the color was so "washed out". For those with the washed out color comments, I usually would place my hand over somebody's on-screen face and note that they looked pretty darn close while the oversaturated look they preferred would only look the same if I had a bad case of sunburn. That usually shut them up, lol.

Picking up the relatively inexpensive DVE disc, or burning the free HD709 disc yourself from the files available in the calibration forums, would be an absolute no brainer to me, even if you have no test equipment. At the very least, they will get your black levels, color and tint dialed in for YOUR specific TV. This is true even if you do no other calibrations with test equipment at all, or attempt to use calibration settings from another TV. There is NO EXCUSE to use another TV's settings for the black and basic color/tint adjustments when it is so easy to do yourself!
post #2792 of 3237
So I have had my Samsung LN46A550 for a number of months now, and last week noticed an odd problem: playing back, via HDMI, some footage shot in 1080i on a Canon camcorder, I noticed that the overexposed areas looked *hideous* on the TV, but OK (just over-bright) on the camcorder LCD.

Playing around more, I noticed that icons from my MythTV that had pure white in them had the pure white turned to gray. In general, very bright things from everywhere showed distortion -- and I might even say dithering. They most commonly would turn a light gray, which is very weird to look at -- when things that are supposed to be darker turn out lighter than the lightest parts of a scene, because the lightest parts have turned gray. Sometimes they have turned a different color, such as a bright pink.

I tried resetting the TV to factory defaults. No help there. Even the TV's own OSD looks bad.

Dinking around with the settings, I found that lowering contrast from its default of 95 resolved the problem -- for Standard mode. It was, of course, still there in Sports, Movie/Cinema, and Game modes, since I can't adjust contrast there.

I'm pretty sure, but not completely sure, that things didn't used to look like this.

Is my TV defective, or do I have something else going on? Or is this just normal?

When I first saw this, I thought, "Whoa, my camcorder was clipping?" It looks just like a RAW conversion from a digital camera gone horribly awry.

Thanks for any advice.
post #2793 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoerzen View Post

So I have had my Samsung LN46A550 for a number of months now, and last week noticed an odd problem: playing back, via HDMI, some footage shot in 1080i on a Canon camcorder, I noticed that the overexposed areas looked *hideous* on the TV, but OK (just over-bright) on the camcorder LCD.

Playing around more, I noticed that icons from my MythTV that had pure white in them had the pure white turned to gray. In general, very bright things from everywhere showed distortion -- and I might even say dithering. They most commonly would turn a light gray, which is very weird to look at -- when things that are supposed to be darker turn out lighter than the lightest parts of a scene, because the lightest parts have turned gray. Sometimes they have turned a different color, such as a bright pink.

I tried resetting the TV to factory defaults. No help there. Even the TV's own OSD looks bad.

Dinking around with the settings, I found that lowering contrast from its default of 95 resolved the problem -- for Standard mode. It was, of course, still there in Sports, Movie/Cinema, and Game modes, since I can't adjust contrast there.

I'm pretty sure, but not completely sure, that things didn't used to look like this.

Is my TV defective, or do I have something else going on? Or is this just normal?

When I first saw this, I thought, "Whoa, my camcorder was clipping?" It looks just like a RAW conversion from a digital camera gone horribly awry.

Thanks for any advice.

I can tell you with absolute confidence that a contrast setting of 95 will absolutely cause clipping! I've measured it - my sets red and green completely die with 100% white stimulus with the contrast set that high. With your already clipped source material putting a bunch of your video up into that clipping region, its no wonder it looks hideous! Try dropping the contrast to at least 92, preferably 90 if you cannot measure what's going on in your TV.

This is not a defect, either... the TV, especially THESE TVs, can output tremendously high white levels before they clip. Just don't get hung up on what the adjustment is set to. Even contrast settings down in the 80's will produce white levels in these TV's that other display technologies can only dream of. If only the black levels were nearly as good, lol.
post #2794 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

I can tell you with absolute confidence that a contrast setting of 95 will absolutely cause clipping! I've measured it - my sets red and green completely die with 100% white stimulus with the contrast set that high. With your already clipped source material putting a bunch of your video up into that clipping region, its no wonder it looks hideous! Try dropping the contrast to at least 92, preferably 90 if you cannot measure what's going on in your TV.

So, in other words, the TV's defaults are guaranteed to cause clipping? As are all of the "entertainment" modes -- Cinema, Sports, Game, etc, which force the contrast way up there?

Just wanted to clarify.

I don't have equipment to measure what is going on in the TV; I think I had to drop contrast into the 80s before the clipping stopped.
post #2795 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgoerzen View Post

So, in other words, the TV's defaults are guaranteed to cause clipping? As are all of the "entertainment" modes -- Cinema, Sports, Game, etc, which force the contrast way up there?

Just wanted to clarify.

I don't have equipment to measure what is going on in the TV; I think I had to drop contrast into the 80s before the clipping stopped.

That would be my assessment/opinion... and part of the reason that all of those Entertainment modes are to be avoided like the plague. They look awful anyway, lol, with or without the clipping (IMHO, of course).
post #2796 of 3237
Hey jcal. I've been using your settings from post 2464 for a while now. Although they are a great match for my 32" with firmware 1008, I've always thought that my blacks were being crushed (made more apparent by constant tweaking with ingame gamma settings for both ps3 and 360).

I have tried adjusting my basic settings using the AVSHD709 clipping patterns, but have found it difficult to maintain deep blacks and avoid the washed out look caused by having to set the brightness to a high level (60) to see the reference bars for those tests (specifically bars 19-25 for the APL clipping pattern). The best balance I've found so far has been to reduce black adjust to low with a brightness of 54.

I think I read you mention before that you were only able to achieve the right gamma curve by setting black adjust to medium. Would you recommend only changing the brightness setting? Will changing black adjust adversely affect the picture quality?
post #2797 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodge15 View Post

Hey jcal. I've been using your settings from post 2464 for a while now. Although they are a great match for my 32" with firmware 1008, I've always thought that my blacks were being crushed (made more apparent by constant tweaking with ingame gamma settings for both ps3 and 360).

I have tried adjusting my basic settings using the AVSHD709 clipping patterns, but have found it difficult to maintain deep blacks and avoid the washed out look caused by having to set the brightness to a high level (60) to see the reference bars for those tests (specifically bars 19-25 for the APL clipping pattern). The best balance I've found so far has been to reduce black adjust to low with a brightness of 54.

I think I read you mention before that you were only able to achieve the right gamma curve by setting black adjust to medium. Would you recommend only changing the brightness setting? Will changing black adjust adversely affect the picture quality?

Black adjust appears to be a low-end gamma tweak control. From what I've seen here, every set responds a little differently as to what is the best combination of settings to get a decent gamma curve. Disregarding the gamma curve, any of the settings can be made to have the correct black point. But disregarding the gamma curve is not a good thing... unfortunately there is no way to try the different combinations effectively without a meter. If you have gamma controls at the source, too, there is REALLY no telling what the correct combination could be.

You mention here that you are using PS3 and XB360... are you sure that you have the same grayscale ranges set at both the source and the TV? If the PS3/XB are set for the expanded PC/RGB grayscale (levels 0-255), then the TV needs to be set for Normal HDMI Black Level. If the source is set for TV grayscale (levels 16-235), then the HDMI black level at the TV needs to be set at Low. It definitely would throw your grayscales out of whack if they are mismatched between source and TV.

Neither Normal nor Low is wrong, as long it matches the source, but I would prefer whatever was the native grayscale range for the software you were running, eliminating any unnecessary conversion in the player prior to output. I don't know enough about the game systems to make any further recommendations than that.
post #2798 of 3237
jcal, I do have my hdmi black levels correctly set to match the output of the consoles. Thanks for your reply though. I just wish I had the equipment and expertise to properly calibrate my screen. I couldn't believe the difference your settings made when I first applied them. I realise the amazing fortune in finding that your settings would produce accurate colours and great blacks on my panel. That's why I'm reluctant to change the black adjust value.
post #2799 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodge15 View Post

jcal, I do have my hdmi black levels correctly set to match the output of the consoles. Thanks for your reply though. I just wish I had the equipment and expertise to properly calibrate my screen. I couldn't believe the difference your settings made when I first applied them. I realise the amazing fortune in finding that your settings would produce accurate colours and great blacks on my panel. That's why I'm reluctant to change the black adjust value.

Do you have a DVE or AVIA calibration disc? Or downloaded the HD709 disc from here? With them you can always set the absolute black level (brightness) correctly without test equipment. With that in mind, you can try the black adjust settings, resetting the brightness for correct absolute black level for each black adjust value. Evaluate and see which way you prefer. You can always go back if you don't like a setting.
post #2800 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

Black adjust appears to be a low-end gamma tweak control. From what I've seen here, every set responds a little differently as to what is the best combination of settings to get a decent gamma curve. Disregarding the gamma curve, any of the settings can be made to have the correct black point. But disregarding the gamma curve is not a good thing... unfortunately there is no way to try the different combinations effectively without a meter. If you have gamma controls at the source, too, there is REALLY no telling what the correct combination could be.

Jcal I played around with black adjust since you got good results on gamma for it... and I also found that black adjust of medium really levels it out. Excepting 0 IRE and 100 IRE it was super flat!
post #2801 of 3237
I do have HD709. I think it's what is actually throwing me off. If I leave black adjust on medium I must set the brightness to 60, resulting in a washed out less poppy look. Like I said I think I've found a balance with black adjust on low and brightness at 54 which I might stick with for now. I just didn't want to deviate too far from your settings considering they generally gave me excellent results. The effect of the black adjust setting on the gamma curve is what I'm concerned about.
post #2802 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

Jcal I played around with black adjust since you got good results on gamma for it... and I also found that black adjust of medium really levels it out. Excepting 0 IRE and 100 IRE it was super flat!

Another reason for me to want to keep black adjust on medium.
post #2803 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodge15 View Post

I do have HD709. I think it's what is actually throwing me off. If I leave black adjust on medium I must set the brightness to 60, resulting in a washed out less poppy look. Like I said I think I've found a balance with black adjust on low and brightness at 54 which I might stick with for now. I just didn't want to deviate too far from your settings considering they generally gave me excellent results. The effect of the black adjust setting on the gamma curve is what I'm concerned about.

If you set by pluge to just barely not clip 2% above black it should not look washed out. Did you really find that brightness that high? I think my setting was 52 when I had black adjust on medium.
post #2804 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodge15 View Post

I do have HD709. I think it's what is actually throwing me off. If I leave black adjust on medium I must set the brightness to 60, resulting in a washed out less poppy look. Like I said I think I've found a balance with black adjust on low and brightness at 54 which I might stick with for now. I just didn't want to deviate too far from your settings considering they generally gave me excellent results. The effect of the black adjust setting on the gamma curve is what I'm concerned about.

That seems like a big swing in brightness setting between low and medium black adjust positions... my brightness typically only has to move 1 or 2 clicks to reset the absolute black point with each bump of the black adjust... hmmmm.

Mahlerfan... did you see that big a swing in brightness as you changed the Black Adjust? [EDIT... you answered my question as I was typing it, lol]
post #2805 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodge15 View Post

Another reason for me to want to keep black adjust on medium.

Yup I think it's a good call. If Jcal had not investigated it, I never would have guessed. It makes sense, but I originally thought Samsung was being dumb and adding a second brightness feature. Well I guess in a way it is (brightness and gamma are intertwined), but it doesn't duplicate it.
post #2806 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

Yup I think it's a good call. If Jcal had not investigated it, I never would have guessed. It makes sense, but I originally thought Samsung was being dumb and adding a second brightness feature. Well I guess in a way it is (brightness and gamma are intertwined), but it doesn't duplicate it.

Samsung has built in much more tweakability into the user menus than what most TV's have. This can be a two edged sword though, especially if we don't fully understand what each control does. I'm glad you verified what I found, though, instead of just taking at face value the standard line of "don't use it, it just crushes blacks".

Black Adjust is not one of those "features" that varies dynamically with APL, like Dynamic Contrast or even Energy Saver. Its a static gamma tweak, pure and simple. They should have just called it Low Gamma or something like that.
post #2807 of 3237
I've just run the HD709 disc on PS3 with black adjust set to medium. The first pattern on the disc for setting brightness suggests a brightness of 52 to see bars 17-25. The second pattern is where it kinda falls apart. To see bars 19-25 as suggested, a brightness of 58 is the lowest I can go. Why would there be such a discrepancy between the two tests?
post #2808 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodge15 View Post

I've just run the HD709 disc on PS3 with black adjust set to medium. The first pattern on the disc for setting brightness suggests a brightness of 52 to see bars 17-25. The second pattern is where it kinda falls apart. To see bars 19-25 as suggested, a brightness of 58 is the lowest I can go. Why would there be such a discrepancy between the two tests?

I think those bars on the second pattern are below black, so you're not supposed to see them if I'm recalling right. Also if you're not careful with your ps3 settings you'll crush below black anyway! Oh I'm sure you set it right, anyway... 52 then go with it!
post #2809 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

If only the black levels were nearly as good, lol.

Speaking of which, I actually did test my bargain $150 crt to see how it holds up against my lcds in terms of black level... and uh it completely mops the floor with them!

When I had them all set for a peak white of 30 ftL (I used windows and not full screen btw), the Sammy came in at a sad, sad 900:1, the Toshiba with a 1500:1 and the cheap old RCA tube tv had a whopping 3400:1! And that's turning down it's contrast to a setting of 10/100, so it's full on/full off is much bigger.
post #2810 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

Speaking of which, I actually did test my bargain $150 crt to see how it holds up against my lcds in terms of black level... and uh it completely mops the floor with them!

When I had them all set for a peak white of 30 ftL (I used windows and not full screen btw), the Sammy came in at a sad, sad 900:1, the Toshiba with a 1500:1 and the cheap old RCA tube tv had a whopping 3400:1! And that's turning down it's contrast to a setting of 10/100, so it's full on/full off is much bigger.

CRT black is essentially OFF... one of the reasons I held out for so long with my wonderful high-end Panasonic 32" CRT set. Fed it letterboxed downconverted HD from HD cable box... not a BIG picture but most people thought it WAS HD lol. Black blacks and terrific color. Darn thing cost $200 more in 2001 (bought for my Giants disappointing Super Bowl loss) than the Sammy 37" HD set cost in 2008! Maybe one of these days I'll go down in the basment family room and measure it up for shlits and giggles.

It IS handicapping the LCD a good bit running at 30fL when it can run linearly so much higher. But even cranked up close to the clip point, the best you can hope for is a CR of about 2200 or so. Still makes your cheapie CRT look good in that regard.

To be completely honest... the LCD backlight bleed is only noticeable with full field black, like when credits roll or when they kiss black rolling into commercials. During normal viewing the blacks look very deep and rich on my set.
post #2811 of 3237
I miss my Panny crt, it was a magnificent tv! Just too large and heavy to move around, and I moved three times in the past few years.
post #2812 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

I miss my Panny crt, it was a magnificent tv! Just too large and heavy to move around, and I moved three times in the past few years.

I know... moving it downstairs when I got the Sammy was a real pain... those things weighed a ton!
post #2813 of 3237
Jcal, I downloaded the AVS709. Is that all I need to calibrate my TV. I am going to be using DVE soon but I figured I would try this for now but do I need a color sensor to use the AVS709 correctly?
post #2814 of 3237
...that I can't seem to get out of my head! English is not my native language, so please do your best to disregard any misspelled word of mine.

I have a LN40a550. Having spent about a month feeling unsure about cnet's recommended calibration (+3 gamma?), I went ahead and mimicked to the last detail cliq's calibration for firmware version 1006. I figured it would make more sense to trust the settings of someone who owns the TV and is personally interested in making it look the best possible--putting some serious hours of work into it in the process--than someone essentially trying to get another review out of the way. I must say I'm glad I did: it definitely looked better for my tastes, my eyes felt immediately more rested and pleased, and overall at last I felt like I was closing in on the best possible image of my new TV. Thank you very much cliq! I am really thankful for people like you and jcalabria and mahlerfan999, sharing their findings instead of keeping them to yourselves. You are truly helpful for most of us that don't own and don't know how to use calibration equipment.

Now, I have a couple of questions for any of you three guys that I'm really curious about.

1) Though I'm extremely pleased with how the image looks for watching Bluray (I tested it with Wall E--amazing results cliq!), I am also a videogame player. I found that games looked a bit duller than what I expected/hoped for, and so I decided to turn up the color saturation from 48 to 52. Already I could tell the difference, this settings are really sensitive... so now, my question: what am I throwing off balance in your finely tuned calibration by turning up the color, for example, in terms of the custom colorspace, white balance, contrast, gamma, etc? I don't clearly understand what color is correlated to. If you could share in layman terms how you came up with a setting of say, 48, instead of 50 something for instance, I would be grateful. I FEEL I like 52 color better; but I do not want to keep it if I'm deviating a bunch of other stuff, ignoring your edcucated criteria as well....

2)My TV's firmware was 1008 out of the box. Cliq's was for 1006. Is it known wether or not your calibration still applies? If, for example, your colorspace setting addresed a color push one way or the other, and that was corrected in a later firmware, could I be inadvertedly doing more harm than good, and not even realize it? I don't know if my eye is keen enough to tell the difference, though again, I THINK the colors look perfect in the way you customized them.

Once more,thank you very much for your time, and for posting your results!
post #2815 of 3237
Arg I still have to post my color settings! I'll do that right now.

Okay I can answer one thing-- color is the brightness of the primaries (red/green/blue) relative to white. It's a common misconception that until recently I held, that it controls saturation, it doesn't change saturation or hue.

To see visually what's going on, check out Tom Huffman's post--

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852536
post #2816 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by artalaxius View Post

...that I can't seem to get out of my head! English is not my native language, so please do your best to disregard any misspelled word of mine.

I have a LN40a550. Having spent about a month feeling unsure about cnet's recommended calibration (+3 gamma?), I went ahead and mimicked to the last detail cliq's calibration for firmware version 1006. I figured it would make more sense to trust the settings of someone who owns the TV and is personally interested in making it look the best possible--putting some serious hours of work into it in the process--than someone essentially trying to get another review out of the way. I must say I'm glad I did: it definitely looked better for my tastes, my eyes felt immediately more rested and pleased, and overall at last I felt like I was closing in on the best possible image of my new TV. Thank you very much cliq! I am really thankful for people like you and jcalabria and mahlerfan999, sharing their findings instead of keeping them to yourselves. You are truly helpful for most of us that don't own and don't know how to use calibration equipment.

Now, I have a couple of questions for any of you three guys that I'm really curious about.

1) Though I'm extremely pleased with how the image looks for watching Bluray (I tested it with Wall E--amazing results cliq!), I am also a videogame player. I found that games looked a bit duller than what I expected/hoped for, and so I decided to turn up the color saturation from 48 to 52. Already I could tell the difference, this settings are really sensitive... so now, my question: what am I throwing off balance in your finely tuned calibration by turning up the color, for example, in terms of the custom colorspace, white balance, contrast, gamma, etc? I don't clearly understand what color is correlated to. If you could share in layman terms how you came up with a setting of say, 48, instead of 50 something for instance, I would be grateful. I FEEL I like 52 color better; but I do not want to keep it if I'm deviating a bunch of other stuff, ignoring your edcucated criteria as well....

2)My TV's firmware was 1008 out of the box. Cliq's was for 1006. Is it known wether or not your calibration still applies? If, for example, your colorspace setting addresed a color push one way or the other, and that was corrected in a later firmware, could I be inadvertedly doing more harm than good, and not even realize it? I don't know if my eye is keen enough to tell the difference, though again, I THINK the colors look perfect in the way you customized them.

Once more,thank you very much for your time, and for posting your results!


I think if you are pleased with clicq's settings for regular TV, by all means stay with them. I'm not a big video game person, but the term "natural reproduction" doesn't seem to apply. I wouldn't be too worried about anything for the game input other than making it look good to you.

On the firmware, I don;t think we have a good handle on what the differences really are between versions. Even among a single FW version there are great set-to-set variations. A few 1007's have a pretty bad green push, like mine did. Other's don't. There doesn;t seem to be any consistency.

As far as explaining the colorspace stuff... the TV's colorspace is a map of sorts, that determines what color is actually produced when the input signal calls for a particular color. The COLOR and TINT controls act on a macro scale for all colors, controlling overall color levels and hue. The Color Management System gives you finer control, allowing better control of where intended colors actually fall on the map in terms of color luminance (brightness), saturation (color intensity) and hue. These can be tweaked individually for six separate areas of the color map, making sure that colors "requested" by the source material are actually what you get (or at least as close as possible). Hope that helps!
post #2817 of 3237
Oppo 981 Final (with and without black adjust)--

Backlight: 6
Contrast: 87
Brightness: 52
Sharpness: 40
Tint: 50/50
Gamma: -1
Energy Saver: Off
Black Adjust: Medium
Edge Enhancement: On
White Balance:

R-Offset: 23
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset 25
R-Gain: 31
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 28

Color (R/G/B):

Red: 27/5/0
Green: 29/42/0
Blue: 0/10/36
Yellow: 46/48/0
Cyan: 29/44/44
Magenta: 32/8/39

The gamma graph is for black adjust on medium. I think when I did that I forgot to reset brightness, I didn't save that graph but the shape didn't change, it just pushed it down to 2.2 instead of 2.3.

My grayscale is improved! But it's the same settings... I calculated the grayscale based on the gamma corrected values, and that made the difference.

The CIE graph shows how I tried to fit the colors to the SMPTE-C gamut for watching sd. Since my cable watching is also sd, I use these instead of Rec 709 to try to tame the over-saturation. Well you know cable is all over the place, but under-saturated would certainly sit better with me over over-saturated.

I also completed the color settings on the ps3 for Rec 709 but I'll post those later. I waited so long to post these just in case after I lived with them I didn't like them, but I like them.
LL
LL
LL
post #2818 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

Oppo 981 Final (with and without black adjust)--

Backlight: 3
Contrast: 87
Brightness: 50 (black adjust = off)/52 (black adjust = medium)
Sharpness: 0
Tint: 50/50
Gamma: -1
Energy Saver: Off
Black Adjust: Off/Medium
White Balance:

R-Offset: 23
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset 25
R-Gain: 31
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 28

Color (R/G/B):

Red: 27/5/0
Green: 29/42/0
Blue: 0/10/36
Yellow: 46/48/0
Cyan: 29/44/44
Magenta: 32/8/39

The gamma graph is for black adjust on medium. I think when I did that I forgot to reset brightness, I didn't save that graph but the shape didn't change, it just pushed it down to 2.2 instead of 2.3.

My grayscale is improved! But it's the same settings... I calculated the grayscale based on the gamma corrected values, and that made the difference.

The CIE graph shows how I tried to fit the colors to the SMPTE-C gamut for watching sd. Since my cable watching is also sd, I use these instead of Rec 709 to try to tame the over-saturation. Well you know cable is all over the place, but under-saturated would certainly sit better with me over over-saturated.

I also completed the color settings on the ps3 for Rec 709 but I'll post those later. I waited so long to post these just in case after I lived with them I didn't like them, but I like them.

Seems like the student is becoming the master, lol. I'm jealous. Maybe now that I'm feeling somewhat better I'll be inspired to pick up where I left off.

One thing is curious to me, though. On the RGB chart your low end is just as screwy as every other Sammy LCD I've seen.... yet the dE's are decent. Any thoughts on that? Also, what are you referring to by "I calculated the grayscale based on the gamma corrected values"
post #2819 of 3237
@mahlerfan999

Thanks for the quick answer! When you describe color in those terms, it makes complete sense. It does describe accurately what I notice on screen. I'll start reading your link now, looks like a long but worthwhile read.

@jcalabria

Thanks for the quick reply as well. I think you are completely right: as artistic and meticulously created as videogames can sometimes be, they are anything but "natural", so I'll follow your advice; just crank up color to the point where I'm satisfied, then remember to bring it back down to proper natrual levels whenever I'll watch a bluray.

I don't know if I'm just too used to the standards of videogame forums, but you guys are about the most civilized and friendly people I've met on the internet
post #2820 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcalabria View Post

Seems like the student is becoming the master, lol. I'm jealous. Maybe now that I'm feeling somewhat better I'll be inspired to pick up where I left off.

One thing is curious to me, though. On the RGB chart your low end is just as screwy as every other Sammy LCD I've seen.... yet the dE's are decent. Any thoughts on that? Also, what are you referring to by "I calculated the grayscale based on the gamma corrected values"

On the HCFR program under the preferences, there are advanced settings and one of them is to "use gamma reference to compute gray scale delta E" and if I set the reference to the actual average value that I found instead of 2.22 the software then uses the values based upon my actual gamma instead of the 2.22 reference. I can only imagine it having an impact for luminance values.

I also imagine that the gamma going so screwy at the low end makes the gray scale appear screwy if it uses the expected luminance values for white with a 2.22 reference gamma. I kind of take it as a "for your messed up gamma, you're actually tracking it well." But honestly I just don't know.
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