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Official LNXXA550 Calibration/Settings Thread - Page 96

post #2851 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

Wow! Did that first one record, or was it playback only?

It was a recorder... in fact, it was an RCA dockable portable recorder for use with a camera (ANOTHER $800 bucks). Bought it when my son was born in '83. It was hot stuff... it even was stereo - linear two track! ... that was pre VHS-HiFi. Somewhere around here I even have a few VHS movies that were released in two track linear stereo before VHS HiFi came out.

The RCA S-VHS deck was HiFi, and was one of the first devices out there with a stereo MTS tuner. I also bought an Hitachi S-VHS camcorder shortly thereafter ($1,500, lol). They actually made some decent SD pictures. One of these days I'll dump all the S-VHS home movies to the PC and/or DVD. Then I can get rid of some of the antiques.
post #2852 of 3237
I never posted my ps3 settings! I've also deleted intermediate results (like when I set the white balance only). These are not final because I didn't work on black adjust, and I didn't tweak the primaries as much as I should have. Basically I did a more thorough job on the Oppo. Anyway these are for the Rec 709 gamut, and for 30 ftL peak white and a gamma of about 2.3.

Backlight: 6
Contrast: 86
Brightness: 52
Sharpness: 7
Color: 49
Tint: G51/R49
Gamma: -1
White Balance:

R-Offset: 24
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset 24
R-Gain: 31
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 29

Color Space (R/G/B):

Red: 32/0/0
Green: 16/50/0
Blue: 0/0/50
Yellow: 47/47/0
Cyan: 19/44/49
Magenta: 34/0/45

Edge Enhancement: Off

As I've learned the grayscale settings for all hdmi outputs are pretty much the same. The backlight and contrast settings yield about the same peak white as well (so basically it's just gamma and brightness that really change over different hdmi sources), and the color gamut is the same up to choice of 709 vs smpte-c. Honestly I think after doing some more reading, that even for dvd upconversion rec 709 is supposed to be used because the player twists the bt.601 encoding into 709 color space anyway. Not sure if it matters though, the primary difference in mismatched gamuts is a green push, and the green on this tv is already inaccurate compared to either standard.
post #2853 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

...and the color gamut is the same up to choice of 709 vs smpte-c. Honestly I think after doing some more reading, that even for dvd upconversion rec 709 is supposed to be used because the player twists the bt.601 encoding into 709 color space anyway. Not sure if it matters though, the primary difference in mismatched gamuts is a green push, and the green on this tv is already inaccurate compared to either standard.

The color twist discussion quickly gets very confusing because people use the same terms to talk about two different things. There is a matrix encode/decode issue, how the RGB information is represented in YCbCr, and most newer DVD players and sets seem to get this right - they use the Rec601 matrix on 480 material and the Rec709 matrix on 720/1080 material, and the upscaling player re-encodes the RGB information using Rec709 at 720/1080. Then there is the primary color gamut issue, sometimes referred to as the primary chromaticities. Although some experts in the forum suggest that the players should remap the color values of the images, to render Rec601 colors at the right points assuming the set is calibrated at Rec709, this remapping is not as easy as it sounds, and I've not seen it happening in my players. Other experts, e.g., Tom Huffman, suggest just calibrating to Rec709 because the difference does not bother him. As you say, the difference lies around the green, and the eye is not very sensitive to this. As I have multiple players, I have opted to use Rec709 for the blu-ray and Rec601 for the SD players and the cable box. Rec601 for the cable box solved resolved the apparently oversaturated red on some shows, e.g., NCIS. It is a fascinating issue, and one can spend hours reading people's comments.
post #2854 of 3237
This is for those without a sensor, I hope this can be helpful (btw I posted this because one of the reasons I bought a light sensor was because I didn't have data like this to set my backlight by what I wanted!)--

Anyway for setting contrast/backlight these numbers I measured are handy:
Backlight White Level
0 11
1 18
2 25
3 33
4 42
5 52
6 61
7 70
8 79
9 88
10 102

That's peak white (measured in ftL) for a contrast setting of 92. 30-40 ftL produces a bright image with minimal eye strain in a completely dark room, in a dimly lit room 40-50 is more appropriate, 50-60 in a well lit room, and then above that for Walmart like conditions.

Each tick of the contrast setting changes the light output by 2-3 ftL, and each tick of the backlight setting as you see changes the light output by about 10 ftL. You should keep the contrast between 85-92 because if you go lower you should lower your backlight instead for deeper blacks, if it's higher you run the risk of discoloration.

For those that want to set backlight and contrast by your own environment, I hope you find this table helpful.
post #2855 of 3237
Thanks Bill for the clarification! I didn't realize that in practice the players still usually output to 601. And I have actually specifically noticed oversaturated reds on NCIS just like you mentioned, that was when I had the a650 I sadly had to return (not for that reason though lol!), and if there's one thing that bugs me is oversaturated colors on cable. I hate how inconsistent they are, but I am using my SMPTE-C gamut for cable, and I like it.
post #2856 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

Thanks Bill for the clarification! I didn't realize that in practice the players still usually output to 601.

Yes, but it is so hard to be precise. At least in the three players I have tested, the RGB content from the DVD stays the same, as originally recorded using the SMPTE-C colors. But, after upscaling, the RGB was re-encoded into YCbCr with the Rec709 color encoding matrix. So, technically speaking, most would say it was re-output at Rec709.

For SD players, my test process for this was to measure the color points on the set, after sending the data in 480i or at 1080i. If the player moved the RGB values, one would see the measured red/green/blue primaries move at the set, and they don't. For the blu-ray player, I performed the same test using the GetGray SD calibration DVD, compared to the AVCHD blu-ray DVD. Again, the colors measured at the set did not move.

Of course, if the content actually carried the color-space flag saying which primaries were used when the material was recorded, the set itself could move its primaries based on the flag. So had the color points moved, there would still be a question whether it was the player remapping the colors, or the set adjusting its color gamut.

(Obviously I found this subject hugely interesting, especially as more than half my DVDs are foreign and PAL, with an even different color gamut.)
post #2857 of 3237
That is confusing!

I also watch plenty of pal discs (I have a hundred or so), I saw on Huffman's thread the pal values but decided to just calibrate towards smpte/ntsc. If I only I could access warm2 from another option (instead of just movie)!

I might see about testing my Oppo (unless you already have) using your method. I did check to see if the primaries moved between ycbcr and rgb (both for 1080p output), and they didn't but I'm still unsure if that means anything or not (like how do I know that the tv doesn't do exactly the same thing that the player does).
post #2858 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

That is confusing!

I also watch plenty of pal discs (I have a hundred or so), I saw on Huffman's thread the pal values but decided to just calibrate towards smpte/ntsc. If I only I could access warm2 from another option (instead of just movie)!

I might see about testing my Oppo (unless you already have) using your method. I did check to see if the primaries moved between ycbcr and rgb (both for 1080p output), and they didn't but I'm still unsure if that means anything or not (like how do I know that the tv doesn't do exactly the same thing that the player does).

Nope, my players are the Panasonic DMP-BD35, a Pioneer DV-49 modified to be multi-region, and an old Sony RDR-VX515 DVDR/VCR.
post #2859 of 3237
Thread Starter 
If anyone would like any other additional information or calibration postings to be listed on the first page just let me know and provide me the link so that I can list them all, that way new guys don't have to search through the whole thread for the good stuff . Keep up the great work guys.
post #2860 of 3237
Anyone come up with calibration settings for 108 yet?
post #2861 of 3237
whats up guys ....i have a samsung 40" series5 model number LN40A500...i dont want to spend 300 for a professional calibrating my lcd ..... if you guys could please me out and post up your settings for tv watching in dynamic, standard , and movie settings that'll be great...i know each of these modes have limited options thats why i was asking...i would like in a bright room settings and dark room settings...

ALSO, i have an xbox 360 using HDMI cable..i need a calibration for that as well...thank you for the help ...
post #2862 of 3237
Chris, just look at the front page for links to the best settings.
post #2863 of 3237
I set up daytime settings. I wanted it to look good for sd viewing. I calibrated towards a 2.3 gamma because it has more pop than 2.2 and also is better at hiding noise, in daytime that looks very much like a crt-esque 2.5 gamma. I needed it to look brighter so I aimed more for 43-46 ftL, but I also calibrated towards D75 so that it's almost right but appears to be a little brighter, and I also can use the standard setting to do this. I also set up brightness to not crush shadow detail in daytime with blinds open, especially with that high gamma. These are the settings I obtained--

Mode: Standard
Backlight: 4
Contrast: 87
Brightness: 60
Sharpness: 20
Color: 50
Tint: 50/50
Black Adjust: Medium
Gamma: -3
Color Space: Auto
White Balance:

R-Offset: 25
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset: 25
R-Gain: 29
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 10

Color Tone: Normal

It looks pretty darned good even with cable.
post #2864 of 3237
k thanks i will do that
post #2865 of 3237
hey guys, does your sammy's get really warm? if so, is there a way to make it "cooler" without losing picture quality?
post #2866 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by umalip View Post

hey guys, does your sammy's get really warm? if so, is there a way to make it "cooler" without losing picture quality?

The classic responses are to turn down the Backlight, or to enable or turn up the Energy Saving. The effects are similar in lowering the overall brightness and concomitant energy use.
post #2867 of 3237
mahlerfan999 -

I'm trying your SD settings and liking it a lot. I always thought my SD viewing (DishNetwork sat.) could use a little kick but just bumping the backlight from 3 to 4 wasn't doing it. These settings look pretty good on most of the channels. Thanks.
post #2868 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by multicore View Post

mahlerfan999 -

I'm trying your SD settings and liking it a lot. I always thought my SD viewing (DishNetwork sat.) could use a little kick but just bumping the backlight from 3 to 4 wasn't doing it. These settings look pretty good on most of the channels. Thanks.

Ah thanks! D65 grayscale helps alot with sd, I also find that bias lighting to make the blacks look deep is also pretty important.
post #2869 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

I set up daytime settings. I wanted it to look good for sd viewing. I calibrated towards a 2.3 gamma because it has more pop than 2.2 and also is better at hiding noise, in daytime that looks very much like a crt-esque 2.5 gamma. I needed it to look brighter so I aimed more for 43-46 ftL, but I also calibrated towards D75 so that it's almost right but appears to be a little brighter, and I also can use the standard setting to do this. I also set up brightness to not crush shadow detail in daytime with blinds open, especially with that high gamma. These are the settings I obtained--

Mode: Standard
Backlight: 4
Contrast: 87
Brightness: 60
Sharpness: 20
Color: 50
Tint: 50/50
Black Adjust: Medium
Gamma: -3
Color Space: Auto
White Balance:

R-Offset: 25
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset: 25
R-Gain: 29
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 10

Color Tone: Normal

It looks pretty darned good even with cable.

I like these, using them on my 1008 firmware
post #2870 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by irod87 View Post

I like these, using them on my 1008 firmware

Ah thanks!
post #2871 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

Ah thanks!


In your PS3 settings I didnt see where you said if you calibrated with black adjust to medium? Also, I assume you left super white off and used ybcpr instead of RGB?

I was hoping similiar setting would work on the Xbox, but it appears you can only choose 709 or RGB with the 360...
post #2872 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by slosvt View Post

In your PS3 settings I didnt see where you said if you calibrated with black adjust to medium? Also, I assume you left super white off and used ybcpr instead of RGB?

I was hoping similiar setting would work on the Xbox, but it appears you can only choose 709 or RGB with the 360...

I didn't need black adjust on the ps3, the gamma curve was already pretty level. I used it on my Oppo player and cable.

Yes I left super white off and I used ycbcr. The 360 should be pretty different because it has a funny gamma. I've been meaning to calibrate mine, I just haven't yet.
post #2873 of 3237
I can sometimes see roughness in transitions of colors, like when they show a warning at the start of a movie and the top is dark blue but fades to a light blue. Is this normal with an 8 bit panel or is this something that can be helped/fixed with settings?

I've owned other 8 bit displays (plasmas) and have never noticed such coarse transitions between the colors with real content.

Also is there anyway to get the newer firmware? Or is it only on newer sets or by contacting Samsung?
post #2874 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick. View Post

I can sometimes see roughness in transitions of colors, like when they show a warning at the start of a movie and the top is dark blue but fades to a light blue. Is this normal with an 8 bit panel or is this something that can be helped/fixed with settings?

I've owned other 8 bit displays (plasmas) and have never noticed such coarse transitions between the colors with real content.

Also is there anyway to get the newer firmware? Or is it only on newer sets or by contacting Samsung?

I haven't seen any color banding on mine, but I have seen some complaints from others. I have FW 1007, BTW.

1006 is the newest update publicly available from Samsung. 1007 & 1008 have only been available with new TVs. There is no evidence that 1006 had any specific issues that 1007 or 1008 would have fixed.
post #2875 of 3237
After some closer inspection my problem seemed to be in the windows settings, any scenes that still had banding left were a/b on my living room display and they match up more or less
post #2876 of 3237
I just got an Oppo blu-ray player. Should I be enabling the xvYCC function on the TV, player, and my reciever?
post #2877 of 3237
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzupeman View Post

I just got an Oppo blu-ray player. Should I be enabling the xvYCC function on the TV, player, and my reciever?

No source uses that color gamut so you shouldn't use that function at all.
post #2878 of 3237
The reason I ask, is because when utilizing the settings I got from this thread from clicq in post 995, I used the THX optimizer on the latest Terminator 2 Blu-ray to see if maybe my brightness needed adjusting since I wanted to properly calibrate for that particular player. Well although the stuff I watch actually looks pretty damn good with these settings, the THX optimizer brightness test (with the black bars along the top and the big THX logo in the middle) are all pretty bright. I can turn down the brightness or contrast, but all the boxes and whatever stand out pretty well. Is this normal? Am I supposed to be seeing what THX wants me to see? Is this a color source thing, black level thing, I really don't know if it's even something I should be concerned about.
post #2879 of 3237
On the thx test you're supposed to turn brightness down until the logo's drop shadow vanishes.

You can't use thx to set contrast because digital displays will not suffer from obvious problems using their test patterns. There are problems with setting contrast too high, but it's a bit subtle. Just for go for like around 90% of max and you should be fine.

If the picture still looks too bright, turn the backlight down. If you set the backlight to a setting of 3-5 you will have a bright not but not fatiguing picture and the blacks will also be darker.

I hope this helps.
post #2880 of 3237
I used a real HD calibration disc and it seems the settings were spot on as they were. I knew THX was pretty useless. Thanks for the help though
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