or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › Display Calibration: Root Fundamentals
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Display Calibration: Root Fundamentals - Page 2  

post #31 of 80
Greetings

Well you get the idea ... and the class does as well (and most everyone else too). Any analogy can be nit picked to death ... since there really aren't perfect analogies. (It's kinda like ... )

God forbid someone might try to throw something at the painting ... (this part is also mentioned in the discussion about the Mona Lisa.) ... as well as why people might want to jump on statues and start to whack away at them with a hammer.

Imagine trying to explain the ideas behind calibration with nothing more than the ideas behind calibration. Doesn't always sink in ...

Regards
post #32 of 80
Thread Starter 
In the THX Video Calibration Certification class I also liked your deconstruction of the faulty idea that a calibrated display is supposed to result in an image comparable to looking out a window.
post #33 of 80
Greetings

Ah yes, the myths behind display calibration ...

Myth #1 : Calibrated display will look like looking out the window.

Likely for many reasons, but here is one. Our eyes see way more colors than the HDTV color gamut. And as long as that remains true ... then we can never calibrate the TV image to look like reality as we humans see it ... especially in terms of colors.


Myth #2 : Calibrated display will look like what you saw in the theater.

35 mm film and 70 mm film used for shooting movies may capture less colors than the human eyes can see, but will capture many more colors than what the HDTV color gamut has. As long as this remains true, calibrated displays will not look like what you saw in the movie theater. (Many more reasons here as well) ... unless it is a black and white film. Then we can calibrate the display to emulate what you saw in the theater.

Regards
post #34 of 80
And just how many movies theatres actually show real film.
post #35 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael TLV View Post

Greetings

Ah yes, the myths behind display calibration ...

Myth #1 : Calibrated display will look like looking out the window.

Likely for many reasons, but here is one. Our eyes see way more colors than the HDTV color gamut. And as long as that remains true ... then we can never calibrate the TV image to look like reality as we humans see it ... especially in terms of colors.


Myth #2 : Calibrated display will look like what you saw in the theater.

35 mm film and 70 mm film used for shooting movies may capture less colors than the human eyes can see, but will capture many more colors than what the HDTV color gamut has. As long as this remains true, calibrated displays will not look like what you saw in the movie theater. (Many more reasons here as well) ... unless it is a black and white film. Then we can calibrate the display to emulate what you saw in the theater.

Regards

re: Myth #1: But if a consumer set is 1 mile off the mark in that regard then calibration will get it within 1/10th of 1 mile(528ft).

Ditto for Myth #2.

My point? Calibration is worth it.
post #36 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:


And just how many movies theatres actually show real film.

The answer is still, most. That's irrelevant. What's your point?

Quote:


re: Myth #1: But if a consumer set is 1 mile off the mark in that regard then calibration will get it within 1/10th of 1 mile(528ft).
Ditto for Myth #2.
My point? Calibration is worth it.

I think you have mistaken this for another thread discussing if calibration is worth it.

Look, guys, I started this thread with some hope that it would offer genuine help to people with questions and/or confusion about the fundamental nature of display calibration. Please try to keep posts reasonably relevant, coherent, mature and intelligent. Your cooperation will be appreciated by more readers than just me.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
post #37 of 80
Thread Starter 
Here's a link showing graphically the various color gamuts available from film, video and digital graphics today: http://www.normankoren.com/Sachs_gamut_chart_2_640.jpg
All the gamut triangles are laid over one another within the CIE diagram (gray area) representing the full gamut of human color perception. It's quite easy to see the reduced gamut of transparency film, and the even further reduced gamut of SMPTE C video phosphors.

It should be noted that even though the color gamut triangles occupy a reduced area of the CIE diagram, the gamuts of film and video include the majority of naturally occurring colors we perceive in our daily lives. Efforts are underway to offer near film color gamut in digital cinema, and even beyond film capability down the road. Only programs recorded and mastered in such a large gamut could fulfill the complete potential of such a display system.
post #38 of 80
Why has this not been made a sticky?
post #39 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

Why has this not been made a sticky?

by popular demand

Sticky

Thanks to GeorgeAB for his good work
post #40 of 80
ok..its certainly not the gamut...but rather that you dont have nonsense like dithering in a theatre. My Samsung PDP sometimes dithers badly....or maybe its the source material. Dont know.
post #41 of 80
Thread Starter 
Quote:


ok..its certainly not the gamut...but rather that you dont have nonsense like dithering in a theatre. My Samsung PDP sometimes dithers badly....or maybe its the source material. Dont know.

flexy123,

I'm still scratching my head trying to understand your post. What were you commenting on or responding to? Can you rephrase your point?
post #42 of 80
Thank you very much for these fundamental informations.



post #43 of 80
I have a Samsung TXS3082WH 30" Wide Slimfit HDTV connected to a ps3 via hdmi. can someone please tell me the calibration settings for a room with medium light. any reply would be greatly appreciated. thankyou
post #44 of 80
Thread Starter 
post #45 of 80
GeorgeAB, thank you so much for posting this. I was completely clueless about calibration until I read that. I didn't know if it was actually a procedure, or just adjusting your visual settings. Again, thank you. I'll be setting up an appointment with a calibrator soon.

Quick question, if you don't mind me asking here. I got my Panasonic TH-50PX80U from Sears with a 3 year complete coverage warranty. The sales lady told me this includes having a technician come out once a year to run a diagnostic on the set. I had heard about calibration when I bought the set, so I asked her if the technician could also calibrate it for me. She said they could. Do you know if this would be a good idea? Or would it be better to find someone or some company in town who specializes in calibration?
post #46 of 80
Thread Starter 
You should dig a little deeper regarding the Sears service. My expectation is they don't even really appreciate what you're asking for. There could be an exceptional technician on staff, a sub-contractor, who has really developed his own tools and talent to do a complete job of calibration. I just doubt that's the case. You should go with someone who has credentials and references.
post #47 of 80
Greetings

When people say calibrate ... it could also just mean fine tune. What ever that might mean. Setting sharpness to the right place is calibration just as much as doing 40 other things. Then it comes down to degrees of calibration.

Some people figure fine tuning a car means get an oil change.

Very doubtful that it means what you think it means ...

Regards
post #48 of 80
Well the thing about that is, I believe my Sears warranty covers calibration. I'm currently pretty broke, so I can't afford to have a technician come out. Is it a possibility that the Sears tech, if he's not very good, could screw up my display? Or is it just that the calibration would likely not be as good as it could be with someone who knows more what they are doing?

If it's a safe option, and even if they can just make it a little better, I'd think it's worth it.
post #49 of 80
Thread Starter 
Please start a new thread on Sears calibration service. This is going too far off topic. Call and ask to speak directly to the person who will be performing this supposed display calibration. Ask that person to describe in detail what procedures the service includes, what formal training they have had, what instruments they will be using to measure the performance of your TV, if they have calibrated your make and model, to provide referances, and then you should be able to judge if they have any depth. It may be that they just adjust the user controls with a DVD or test pattern generator. Another possibility is that they only reset everything back to factory defaults. Only your due diligence will help determine what could happen to your TV. Again, please do not discuss this topic in this thread any further. Start your own thread on your topic, if you need more help.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants Affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
post #50 of 80
I apologize.
post #51 of 80
Thread Starter 
Thanks.
post #52 of 80
How would someone go about taking the ISF calibration class and become certified? Also, how much should a person plan on as far as an initial investment?

Thanks in advance.
post #53 of 80
Thread Starter 
Your question would be better posed outside of this thread, in the general "Display Calibration" area. You could also try a topical search in the forum. This topic has been discussed numerous times before. Another source for such information is the ISF web site and correspondence with them.
post #54 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeAB View Post

Your question would be better posed outside of this thread, in the general "Display Calibration" area. You could also try a topical search in the forum. This topic has been discussed numerous times before. Another source for such information is the ISF web site and correspondence with them.

Thank you for your response George.
post #55 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

How would someone go about taking the ISF calibration class and become certified? Also, how much should a person plan on as far as an initial investment?

Thanks in advance.

This question is mostly off-topic for this thread, and has been covered piecemeal in a number of threads. Since SpectraCal is a vendor for most of this equipment, here are some ballpark numbers:

"Budget" Approach:
- Training: $2k - $3k
- Meters and Software: $2k - $3k
- Signal Generator: $2k - $3k
- Books, publications and miscellaneous: $500 - $1k
- Total: $7k - $10k

If you want to add audio measurement into the mix, then you need to budget a few thousand dollars more on top of this unless you want to go with an extreme budget approach. I'd expect that most traveling calibrators routinely have more than $20k or so invested in various training courses and gear (e.g., ISF, THX, HAA training; 3 - 5 meters of various flavors, couple of signal generators, measurement microphones, SMPTE publications, ITU publications, various service manuals, etc.).

Bill
post #56 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bear5k View Post

This question is mostly off-topic for this thread, and has been covered piecemeal in a number of threads. Since SpectraCal is a vendor for most of this equipment, here are some ballpark numbers:

"Budget" Approach:
- Training: $2k - $3k
- Meters and Software: $2k - $3k
- Signal Generator: $2k - $3k
- Books, publications and miscellaneous: $500 - $1k
- Total: $7k - $10k

If you want to add audio measurement into the mix, then you need to budget a few thousand dollars more on top of this unless you want to go with an extreme budget approach. I'd expect that most traveling calibrators routinely have more than $20k or so invested in various training courses and gear (e.g., ISF, THX, HAA training; 3 - 5 meters of various flavors, couple of signal generators, measurement microphones, SMPTE publications, ITU publications, various service manuals, etc.).

Bill

Sorry, I didn't mean to take this thread off topic. Sounds a little rich for my blood right now. I was hoping that I could get started in the $3K - $5K ballpark. Thank you for your response.
post #57 of 80
George,

Thank you very much for your "root basics" thread. I've finally "pulled the trigger" and started the process of buying my first "really good TV" after mostly lurking on the AVS Forums for two and half years. This lead me to the next step: considering calibration and wanting to know as much about the process as possible ... and your thread was the first one I've read -- its title seemed to address my "Okay, where do I start?" feeling.

One thing that I think which might enhance your first post is an appendix of "Next steps" and "further reading" links. There are two main branches of this as I see it with my current limited understanding: the person who is interested in knowing more about the process of calibration as a consumer and the person who is interested in learning how to do calibrations themselves.

The former consumer-centric path could probably be easily addressed by simply linking to the several threads already existing which are dedicated to the various aspects of finding and evaluating calibration services in the consumer's area. The latter, "I want to learn how to become a Jedi Master" path, is [I presume] much more challenging for which to offer links but examples might include the reference you made to the Imaging Science Theater 2000 Journal issue (of which I just ordered a copy).

Thanks again for a great "first step" into the technical world of calibration!

Casey
post #58 of 80
One of the best posts I've read in months.
post #59 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by VancouverCanucks View Post

One of the best posts I've read in months.

second that
post #60 of 80
GeorgeAB,

I am very new to 'high definition' media and components so please bear with my limited background and understanding.

After reading your post (thank you very much by the way!) I am left with a few questions regarding calibration and achieving image fidelity.

Once my equipment is calibrated, is it optimized across all sources (i.e. Blu Ray, DVD, HD Cable, etc.) or is the calibration source specific?

Is calibration environmet specific? Would I be able to take my calibrated set from a sun lit room to a den/basement and still retain image fidelity?

Thank you very much for your time.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Display Calibration
This thread is locked  
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › Display Calibration: Root Fundamentals