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Please recommend a 1080p Projector please! - Page 2

post #31 of 99
I'd have the money on hand (Paypal) and constantly check the classifieds here at AVS. You'll come across an RS1 and rarely a VW60 for right around $3,000-3200. I've had the VW50, VW60, AE2000, HC4900, and now the RS1. The RS1 and VW60 are definitely fantastic projectors at $3k used and well worth the extra cost and wait. The RS1 has cured my upgraditis.
post #32 of 99
There was a refurb'd RS1 for $3200 here at AVS (sold now) just last week, so it's definitely realistic if you're sharp.
post #33 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGator View Post

I don't understand why the AE2000 is always considered alongside the Sanyo and HC4900- it's at least $2.7K, so why aren't the Epson, BenQ and Sony thrown into consideration? I could understand if the AE2000 was <=$2K, but it's not...

From what I've read you have:

Sanyo PV2000-Z, Mitsubishi HC4900 -> Poor blacks/contrast, unless this is all your budget allows (720p DLP makes more sense in this price range right now)
Panasonic PT-AE2000U -> Dust Issues
Epson 1080UB -> Convergence

Sony VPL-VW40 & BenQ W5000 -> ?

You list the Sanyo PLV-Z2000 as having poor blacks and contrast, which is as misleading a comment as you could make. If the Sanyo is "poor" then the Panasonic PT-AE2000U is barely above poor. Read all of the side-by-side comparisons that various review sites, and real-world experience by users here have posted. The Sanyo and the Panasonic have nearly the same black levels. Even the well-trusted review site www.projectorreviews.com had the following to say: "Sanyo PLV-Z2000 (note, I was torn between putting this one here, or under Very Good. It may well belong above, as it's performance is very close, but not quite as good as the Panasonic," Projectorreviews.com also posted a direct comparison between these two models. If the Sanyo should be replaced by a 720p DLP, then most certainly the Panasonic should as well.

You must consider the price difference as an advantage. Being cheaper is a benefit, not a penalty. Just because the maximum budgeted allowable price for the projector is $3,000 does not mean all of the $3,000 should be spent. Nor even that he wants the best projector for $3,000, just that if a projector is worth spending more on, his limit no matter what is $3,000.
post #34 of 99
Poor blacks are still poor blacks- "not quite as good as the Panasonic" means exactly that, the Panasonic has better blacks, although not much. Besides, that was exactly the point I was making in the first paragraph. Why is the Panny compared to the Sanyo and Mitsu (4900) when it's relatively not that much better, yet the price puts it into the Sony, BenQ and Epson's league.
post #35 of 99
man..do a search..you can find the Sony W60 for 3400.00 brand new in the box on ebay

and btw i just scored a brand new Benq W9000 (same as the 10000 basically) for $1717.00 on ebay w/ warranty. just fyi..there are TONS of deals for 3000-4000.00 projectors out there except that the prices are often under $2000.00 and normally between 2k and 2500.00
post #36 of 99
Most of these projectors are really on par with each other. That is why they cost close to each other.

I do feel the RS1 is in a different higher tier and a bargain at $3K-ish.

It goes a little beyond specs and PQ here.

Just remember, there is no perfect one projector for everybody. The Rs1 has trade offs too.
post #37 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGator View Post

Poor blacks are still poor blacks- "not quite as good as the Panasonic" means exactly that, the Panasonic has better blacks, although not much. Besides, that was exactly the point I was making in the first paragraph. Why is the Panny compared to the Sanyo and Mitsu (4900) when it's relatively not that much better, yet the price puts it into the Sony, BenQ and Epson's league.

The blacks on the Panasonic and the Sanyo are not "poor". That is where we have a disagreement. Compared to previous generation projectors, the black levels are very good. Compared to same generation projectors costing 3x+ the money, they are not as good. But "poor"??? That is like saying some starting quarterback on an NFL team is poor because Peyton Manning is better.
post #38 of 99
John is right about these projectors being all very close in performance. Any one of them would satisfy most viewers.
post #39 of 99
I own the Sanyo Z2000 1080P and it has outstanding blacks and great shadow detail. It takes some tweaking to achieve this. It is as good as any DLP in its class. When you can get an outstanding 1080P projector like this for well under $2000 with the current $600 rebates, why waste your money on a 720P projector? Check out the Z2000 thread to see what very happy owners are saying.

People who put down so called "low-end 1080P projectors" probably have never viewed one properly set up and probably only have a 720P projector at home.
post #40 of 99
I have one of the "poor blacks" projectors (Mitsu 4900) and yes, the blacks could be deeper. But after my wife made me go to the movies to see Leatherheads I can't complain. The Mitsu has better blacks, better focus, no broken film, no thrown soda stains on the screen, no teenagers running around, etc. It was also less then half the price of the OP's limit.
post #41 of 99
"about these projectors being all very close in performance. Any one of them would satisfy most viewers."

I was thinking of getting a 1080p projector so that's good to know...
post #42 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Sly View Post

IPeople who put down so called "low-end 1080P projectors" probably have never viewed one properly set up and probably only have a 720P projector at home.

It is obvious that you have never seen a premium 720P projector in action.
My Sharp XVZ12000MK2 can seriously chanllenge my other projector which is a Sony VPL-VW60 in term of contrast and color accuracy.
post #43 of 99
Akuan: I had a Sharp 12000 MKII before my current Sharp 20000. Your statement is very true.
post #44 of 99
^ It's obvious those claiming the blacks on budget 1080p LCDs aren't poor just have no idea what good blacks look like. But they can convince themselves :
post #45 of 99
Is the Panasonic 1000u a “low cost” 1080p projector. I have a Sharp DT-500 with a DLP DC2 in it and the blacks are incredible. I have read that the blacks on the Panny 1000u are similar to a DLP DC3. Does anyone believe or know this to be true?
post #46 of 99
Panasonic's 1000u has good blacks but IMO do not match the level of DLP DC3 machines. It is a projector I could easily live with as it has so many positives.

The DT-500 is a fantastic model. I demoed one before my previous 12000mkII.
post #47 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGator View Post

^ It's obvious those claiming the blacks on budget 1080p LCDs aren't poor just have no idea what good blacks look like. But they can convince themselves :

Just like those people who convince themselves that 720P looks better than 1080P?

Sorry, but the Z2000 has great blacks and good shadow detail. It is an outstanding picture. I've seen many $5000-8000 LCD and DLP projects which now sell for $3000-5000 and this PJ can hold its own to them. IMHO with the new crop of 1080P LCDs, DLPs don't hold a huge lead in the black department any longer. And they lack the awesome capability of Lens Shift.

The OP can check out the Z2000 owners thread to see all their comments. Actually I wouldn't even call the Z2000 a low-end projector. The only thing budget about it is the price which has significantly dropped. If the OP is looking for a recommended 1080P projector he should check out this PJ while the $600 rebates are still on (till the end of June).


Here is a photo (unaltered) that I took from Cars on Blu-ray. The blacks are excellent (even though you are looking at a photo on your own monitor.) But this is how good it looks.
post #48 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank456 View Post

Panasonic's 1000u has good blacks but IMO do not match the level of DLP DC3 machines. It is a projector I could easily live with as it has so many positives.

The DT-500 is a fantastic model. I demoed one before my previous 12000mkII.

Can you comment on how you would compare the 1000u to the DT-500. I can make this trade for not too much money but I am not sure if it would be an upgrade. Again, the contrast/picture on the DT-500 is awesome. The 1000u is of course 1080p and probably a little quieter.
post #49 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGator View Post

^ It's obvious those claiming the blacks on budget 1080p LCDs aren't poor just have no idea what good blacks look like. But they can convince themselves :

The objection is to your use of the word poor. How do you mean this to be interpreted? Does poor mean everything less than a JVC RS2? Does it mean anything not in the top 5 projectors? In order to categorize performance and to make comparisons between various levels of technology, we use use easy to understand terms. If you apply "poor" to the blacks generated on the Sanyo Z2000, then what are the terms you would use on other projectors (many) with blacks worse than the Z2000?

Very-poor, mega-poor, incredibly-poor, more-poor, tremendously-poor, poorer-than-poor?

Poor blacks should be a term used only on projectors that do not meet expectations for a current generation projector. The Sanyo Z2000 clearly exceeds expectations based on comments from owners in the z2000 owners thread. Many of those posters have seen other current generation projectors, and are still quite satisfied.
post #50 of 99
"Poor" would mean that a 2007/2008 projector, 1080p nonetheless, is falling short of the capability we've had in 720p DLPs for a long while (DC3), and best case about matches the older DC2 models.

This isn't LCD vs. DLP either, the Epson, Sony, and BenQ all have "better than" poor (you asked for it) black levels AND lens shift in this <$3K price range, so I don't know what you're arguing there.

The Sanyo & Mitsu have poor black levels, the price can't be an excuse for that. You have to decide whether 1080p is more important than that to you...

Here's a fitting quote from a Sanyo owner, since their comments are valuable to you:

Quote:


Well, I am happy with the Sanyo... sort of. It looks AMAZING with bright movies, especially HD-DVD in 1080p.

However, I have watched a few darker movies lately (Harry Potter), and the PJ does not perform very well in the dark scenes. I made an A/B comparison today with my old 4805, and sure enough the 4805 beat it *easily* in the dark scenes.

Yes, poor.
post #51 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobZ View Post

I'd have the money on hand (Paypal) and constantly check the classifieds here at AVS. You'll come across an RS1 and rarely a VW60 for right around $3,000-3200. I've had the VW50, VW60, AE2000, HC4900, and now the RS1. The RS1 and VW60 are definitely fantastic projectors at $3k used and well worth the extra cost and wait. The RS1 has cured my upgraditis.

Just buy the Sanyo Z2000 for $1549 at bhphoto.com , it come with 3 year warranty. It's currently the cheap 1080P projector and it's half the price of competitor. If you afraid of black level, than you can buy a lens filter that would raise the contrast ratio from 15,000.1 to 25,000:1. The Sanyo Z2000 tweak blog will show you how to unlock brightness and setting for optimize picture quality. I previously own Sony VPL-HS60, Optoma HD70, Optoma HD72, and best of all Optoma HD73(excellent 720P Projector). After upgrading to Sanyo Z2000, I would said the picture quality from Sanyo is better than my HD73, but contrast and black level, it almost similar to HD73.

the Lens filter link are here: http://www.pipro.de/product_info.php?products_id=328
I am working on find a United State website for lens filter, it would only cost $100.
post #52 of 99
Remember, Sanyo Z2000 tweak blog, the blog will show you how to unlock high contrast level and picture clarity. Out of the box, Sanyo Z2000 is not correctly calibrate but with some tweak that where the high quality picture will come! If you even want more contrast than buy New Lens filter, that is in case if you need more For me I am happy with current contrast but I will definitely thinking buying a filter soon, just so I see higher contrast and show off to my friend
post #53 of 99
SJK: If it is pure picture quality you want then an upgrade is questionable. The DT-500 holds it's own even today and even though the Panasonic 1000 is 1080p and the Sharp is 720p the resolution difference from normal viewing distances is minimal.

The Panasonic is much quieter and the placement options are endless. Is there anything about the Sharp which you think needs improving? We could go from there.
post #54 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank456 View Post

SJK: If it is pure picture quality you want then an upgrade is questionable. The DT-500 holds it's own even today and even though the Panasonic 1000 is 1080p and the Sharp is 720p the resolution difference from normal viewing distances is minimal.

The Panasonic is much quieter and the placement options are endless. Is there anything about the Sharp which you think needs improving? We could go from there.

I think I am coming to the same conclusion. Pure picture quality is really the bottom line for me. I don't want to make a change for a picture that is not as good.

I am really completely happy with the DT-500. I am looking at adding a 1080p BR player to my system and I would like to take advantage of the full resolution and the 1080p/24 technology. However I don't want to give up the punch and amazing black levels I get from the DLP DC2.

I guess if I could have everything it would be my projector in a 1080p resolution with 1080p/24 and about 10db quieter. Oh and for the same price I paid for my current unit (or less).

I read somewhere that the 1000u's CR can approach DC3 levels. That is what peaked my interest.
post #55 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by LilGator View Post

"Poor" would mean that a 2007/2008 projector, 1080p nonetheless, is falling short of the capability we've had in 720p DLPs for a long while (DC3), and best case about matches the older DC2 models.

This isn't LCD vs. DLP either, the Epson, Sony, and BenQ all have "better than" poor (you asked for it) black levels AND lens shift in this <$3K price range, so I don't know what you're arguing there.

The Sanyo & Mitsu have poor black levels, the price can't be an excuse for that. You have to decide whether 1080p is more important than that to you...

Here's a fitting quote from a Sanyo owner, since their comments are valuable to you:

Yes, poor.

I've seen Epson and BenQ DLPs in this price range and they do not beat the new Z2000 for black levels! The Z2000 does NOT have poor black levels and it can compete with any LCD or DLP in its price range. Are you just relying on someone's review of it or have you seen it properly calibrated with your own eyes??

Instead of quoting one owner's negative comment you should read all the hundreds of other owner comments. It does take some work to achieve this great picture. Out of the box the Z2000 does not have the optimal picture. One must use the tweak thread and spend some time. And you must have a light controlled room and dark walls or you will be giving up the deep blacks. Those few who report poor black levels probably aren't doing it right because the rest of us are loving it!

So getting back to the OP's question. Yes, check out the Z2000. With the $600 rebates it is the cheapest priced 1080P and one of the best in its class. Don't buy it from BH camera, I don't think they are an authorized Sanyo dealer. It you want it, get it from one of the reliable Forum sponsors with the rebates for nearly the same price.
Sanyo has an excellent owner satisfaction history with the Z2, Z3, Z4 and Z5 projectors and their new 1080P model does not disappoint. They also have the best warranty around (3 years).
post #56 of 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Sly View Post

I've seen Epson and BenQ DLPs in this price range and they do not beat the new Z2000 for black levels! The Z2000 does NOT have poor black levels and it can compete with any LCD or DLP in its price range.

You're now telling me the Z2000 has better black levels than the Epson 1080UB and BenQ W5000?
post #57 of 99
LilGator, these models are not in the price range of Z2000.
post #58 of 99
Konrado, are you paying attention? These models are within the OP's price range, and you must have missed my post a few back:

Quote:


The Sanyo & Mitsu have poor black levels, the price can't be an excuse for that. You have to decide whether 1080p is more important than that to you...

On the Sanyo it was argued: "Compared to previous generation projectors, the black levels are very good."

I sure would hope so.

I'll say it again: the Epson 1080UB, Sony VW40, and BenQ W5000 all have "better than poor" blacks, AND lens shift in the LESS THAN $3K price range (OP's price range).

If the OP wanted <$2K he would have said so; he didn't, so we must assume he wants best performance under $3K. The Sanyo does NOT have better blacks or contrast than the three I mention in the OP's price range.

For the record, my recommendation is still to use that $1K budget for the screen, and spring for a used/refurb'd/new RS1 or VW60 if it's managable- to cure "upgraditis" as RobZ mentioned... If not, any of the above three mentioned are leaders in the under $3K range. I would save the Mitsu & Sanyo as a last resort if your budget is truly limited to $2Kish.
post #59 of 99
Both are more than $3k in Europe, so this is the reason of my comment. Regardless it doesn't change the fact that Z2000 is half price of 1080UB or almost half of W5000 price.
I have seen Z2000 and AE2000 and both have very similar, and good black levels. Definitelly not poor. However I believe that 1080UB and W5000 have better blacks. Not for free.
post #60 of 99
You get what you pay for...
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