OTA recommendations for deep fringe

I'm looking into installing an OTA solution here (zip 78643). With the exception of one station, which I can get with a small indoor antenna, all of the others are pretty distant. Here's what tvfool.com shows for my address with respect to digitals in 2009, assuming mount 20' AGL (15' to top of roof plus 5' mast):

There are two concerns here. The first is KTBC-DT which is moving from its current 56 to 7 next year. I've been looking into it, and at first it seemed like a combination of CM4228 and CM7777 preamp would be enough. But if KTBC is moving from 56 to 7, a UHF-only solution wouldn't work as it would today. Some have reported that there is a little high VHF gain with the 4228, but not as much on 7 as with 9-13. So I doubt that would be sufficient. As a result I might need a different solution that also has at least high VHF, or a separate VHF antenna (a YA-1713, maybe?) in addition to a 4228. That seems to be a popular combination for fringe reception.

The other concern is overloading on KXAM-DT. This is one that could come in loud and clear with an indoor coat hanger antenna. While all the other stations in the 119 and 120 directions seem to need a preamp, I think KXAM could cause problems with overloading on a preamp. Would that mean splitting out channel 27 somehow, using an attenuator on that split and then multiplexing them back together?

I'm really only interested in the signals from the same antenna farm in Austin, which are the six lines clustered above which are 59-60 miles away and at 119-120 azimuth. So I don't really think a rotor is necessary even with a strictly directional solution.

Any thoughts about the setup, specific antenna recommendations, anything else? Am I at least on the right track here? Are these even strong enough to pick up with a large deep fringe antenna?

Thanks. You think I need the rotor, though? All the stations I'm trying to pick up are all aligned within one degree of each other.

Based on best line of sight, I'm thinking of mounting on top of my detached garage (no trees in the way there) and running a line from there to the house (a run of about 50 feet). I'm not sure operating a rotor to a garage roof-mounted antenna is that feasible. I don't mind the extra cost if it helped, but I didn't really think it seemed necessary given the location of the transmitters. And I'm not going to pretend I can reach the San Antonio or the Waco-Temple-Bryan locals, which are about the only other things I could try (being about 90-100 mostly hilly miles away).

I've heard some people mention the 91-XG as well as a couple of Winegard models in addition to the CM 4228. I'd love to get some local opinions, but I think what few people there are in town have all been doing satellite for years now.

Thanks. I'm not terribly concerned about picking up KCWX well, and KAKW is a Spanish language station I don't need.

So really what I need is a way to receive the remaining six stations with -101 to -108 signal (likely with a UHF antenna and a high VHF antenna) combined with a reduced signal from KXAM into the preamp. I think that's the general idea.

Would it be possible to filter out ch 27 completely from the antenna (so it never goes through the preamp) and then join it back in with a set-top antenna near the tuner? I get mid- to high-80s from it with a small indoor antenna now.

I could get an extra 6' or 7' of height if I mounted it rooftop on the house instead of the garage, but there's a huge pecan tree in the way. I might be able to find a spot along the ridgeline where it's unobstructed and has a clear view of the horizon. I'm a little worried about a mast more than 5' tall due to wind concerns, so at most I'd be able to get it about 25' up from the ground.

Channel 13 is a Spanish language station. I don't need it. At least that slightly simplifies things on the VHF side, I'd think, since I'd really only be concerned about 7. I suppose I could add another low-VHF yagi later if I wanted to get 5.

At first I'd want to concentrate on the six stations at 120 plus preventing the signal on 27 from messing it all up. As you mentioned, that they are so close in direction (120 and 128) is problematic too because even a highly directional antenna like a 91-XG will get them both, even if I didn't want it to pick up 27.

I'd probably start simply and build it in stages -- first getting the UHFs at 119-120 (while reducing the signal from ch 27), then adding the yagi for 7. And after that, if I wanted 5, I could try that as well.

I'll have to read up more on the Jointennas, since based on the responses it looks like that might have to be part of the solution.

Thanks. It definitely seems like I'd want to do that if I decided to join both 7 and 5 at some point with two separate yagis. (At the moment I don't really need 5 if I could get 49, even though 5 is much closer.). If I didn't add 5, I wouldn't need that jointenna on the VHF side.

As for using one to block 27, let me make sure I have it right. If I put a terminator cap on the 27 input and put the rest of the UHF (such as from a 91-XG) in the other input, then the output would go to the preamp, thus preventing 27 from overwhelming the preamp? And then I'd have to join 27 back in with a separate, non-amplified small directional antenna with another 27 jointenna on the other side of the preamp?

Am I close?

I get that -- but ch 27 is at 128 and the other distant stations are at 119-120. Seems like aiming the 91XG to 120 would also pull in a close and powerful signal at 128...and overwhelm the preamp? That's why I assumed a jointenna would be needed as a notch filter to kill 27 before going to the preamp -- otherwise, the strong signal on 27 goes into the preamp and overpowers it...wouldn't it?

The good news is that I'm not in a rush, so I won't go out and buy everything I might need. I'll start with the 91XG, the yagi for ch 7 and a UVSJ to combine the VHF and UHF signals, since I know I'll need those. From there I can see what else I need to do about a preamp. If I need a preamp (and I'd certainly guess I would for the towers 60 miles away), I'd check to see if ch 27 is too strong and causes trouble (if I need attenuation of 27 before going into the preamp).

For now this is basically a hobby project for me and I get most of this stuff on satellite now, but I don't know that I want to keep paying $70-80 a month for it indefinitely. But I do have the luxury of taking my time, not overbuying immediately and only buying additional stuff as it becomes obvious I need it. I know there are large OTA antennas around town which look to be aimed at 120, so presumably it's possible but may not be easy.

Update: Got my 91XG today. I'm in the middle of assembling it.

One question about the balun. I'm not sure which way to install it. I know to put it on the underside, but does the coax connector point toward the end of the boom, or toward the middle of it?

(I'm assuming middle, but it's not clear from the instructions and I haven't seen a large enough picture of that part of it to know for sure.)

Thanks. I reversed the balun so that the connection to the coax comes in through the back rather than the center. Fingers are fine. I bent a couple of the elements but straightened them out. Hopefully it's not a problem. Looks like it's all together. Tomorrow I'll grab some coax, attach the antenna to a mast and start feeling around for a signal. May not get it except on 27 without a preamp, but this is just the first step of many.

All I can say is...wow.

Today I started the first round of testing with the 91XG. I set the antenna out in the appropriate direction, resting on a large trash can about 4' high, and with bricks around it to keep it upright and stationary.

Coming into the DirecTV HR20-700, the signal meters were as high as the 70s...with NO preamp and a 100-foot spool of RG-6 between it and the antenna. Channels 21, 22 and 33 were all in the high 60s and low 70s with a great picture. 43 and 56 weren't quite as strong -- in the 40s and low 50s -- but the picture quality was almost always very high. 49 barely came in at all, which was to be expected based on the TVFool information.

Again, this is with NO preamp and only about 5' off the ground, with a lot of trees in the path. I think I can declare Phase 1 to be a smashing success, and now I can start thinking about a permanent mount and preamp. The signal on 27 was in the high 80s; maybe the 8 degree offset might have been enough to prevent it from a stronger signal.

I may not even need as strong a preamp as I might have thought with this setup, and to keep 27 from overloading, maybe I don't need maximum gain.

EDIT to add: I just put the antenna on the end of an old rake along the side of the garage to see if I could do a wall mount instead of climbing on the roof. I had my wife shouting out the results on the signal meter. I was pulling in high 70s and 80s on all the stations except for 49 which was in the 50s. And I wasn't anally microadjusting the direction but merely pointing it in roughly the right direction. Now I can go ahead and get the wall mounting supplies and a mast. I may hold off on the high VHF yagi since ch 7 will still be on 56 until Feb '09.

Thanks at all for the tips. It can be done way out in the boonies!

I don't think it's overloading because the signal on 27 was in the mid-90s when I aimed the antenna a few degrees clockwise (right at 128). If there was overloading I would expect the signal to be lower, not higher, at 128 than when aimed at about 120.

Still, because of the issue with ch 27 I'd prefer to not even use a preamp at all if I can avoid it (plus the extra cost and complexity). I suspect I'll mount the antenna on the wall, with the antenna about 3 feet above the roof line, and if that gives me an adequate picture on all the channels I'm trying to lock in, maybe I'm done. Just need to figure out the grounding and such.

I'm still amazed at the strength of these signals and the picture quality with zero amplification across 60 hilly miles, with no more than about 12' AGL and with a ridge partially obscuring the signal between me and the towers about 8 miles from here. (That ridge is actually where the KXAM tower is located.)