A pair of VTF3.3's or an Epik Conquest for this room? Pics and dimensions included.

If your going to go pairs, you may want to consider a pair of Epik Calibers. I haven't heard the Hsu, but a single caliber rocked in a room that size.

What made you disclude the mfw-15 pair ? That pair is the cheapest if you need a pair.

Ok 1st but maybe I'm slow but isn't 17"x18" kinda small . I agree with hcw3, We have a Caliber and our area is approximately 21' x 23' open room that includes the kitchen /w island. vaulted low end 8' and peak is 11 1/2'. The Caliber does a great job and I still dont have it set right(newbie )

The sub you have is good. I understand wanting more subwoofage tho... what I'm wondering is why you can localize the sub over there in the corner.

If you haven't already done so you also need to take some measurements to see what kind of response curve you're getting. It could be the localization issue is nothing more than a major room peak and/or null. A new subwoofer might do nothing other than make your current problem worse.

If you have it crossed over at 100 or lower and it is not a peak/null I'm guessing it is due to the tactile effects the subwoofer is creating which might be solved by decoupling the subwoofer from the floor and or moving it out away from the corner just a bit.

Decoupling can be done a variety of ways I'm not much of a DYI guy so I bought a couple Gamma pads from sweetwater. Did a lot to stop the walls from shaking and therefore rattling.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GRAMMA/

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Ok if your talking to me,a lot of that is going over my head a bit . I think I know what your talking about but have no idea how to fix it. I was hoping someone lives in the area that can help me out with this. I'm in Phoenix,Arizona if anyone can help . I will tell you I set the speakers using the Audyssey on my 3808 but then turned up the gain(volume knob on the sub?)after doing so. I know I have to set them again using the Audyssey but want to fool around a bit with it before I do.

Sorry no I was talking to the OP. In your case the Audyssey is known for not doing very well with setting up subwoofers. There are a variety of things you can do but it depends on how much time or money you want to invest. If there is a local enthusiast they may do it for just a couple of beers - professional calibration is quite a bit more.

You can also go out and purchase a SLP meter for $50, download some test tones or room EQ, and measure on the cheap.

Since you already know what the VTF-3.3 can do, I would advice that you take a look at the HSU MBM-12 Mid-bass Module.
You would get more flatter bass and more output with a 3.3 + MBM-12 combo.
I have a 4480 cu room that opens up to a huge kitchen and a large foyer, and a 20 ft high skylight with stairs that lead upper floor, and the combo rocks the house.

HSU recommends that you place the MBM-12 nearfield, and the 3.3 at the right front corner of the room. In my setup, I chose the 2nd option of placing both the 3.3 and the MBM behind my sofa...it is a joyride.

With your setup, I would get the MBM-12 and place it right behind that sofa, or place both there.

Hello I hate to sound IANAL here but what you just posted is not true. One benefit of the MBM is more headroom as you mentioned correctly. Another benefit is more options for getting a flatter bass response. You still have to carefully position, measure and listen. Seperating the two gives you a little more flexibility and if the MBM is placed nearfield a serious kick to the chest but that also can create localization issues.

In my room a subwoofer placed behind me is extremely easy to localize, and in the corner nearest my seating there is a 10 dB null and another 10 dB peak. Just look at the 50 and higher range which a MBM would cover.



My point is that a MBM is a cool option that can be used a variety of ways to enhance your enjoyment of existing equiptment but flatter bass ... compared to what? In my difficult room the best solution was two subwoofers running identical frequencies so I can't localize at all and a response curve I can work with. The more I come to understand low frequency reproduction the happier I am that I didn't go the MBM route because of my room.

I am really happy for you, but I beg to differ, because it is not really about your room now is it?
It is about the OP's room. And based upon his setup, the MBM-12 in my opinion, is a better bet than the 3db more headroom that he would get from a second 3.3.

The act of running two identical subwoofers at two different locations with one in front of you and one behind you is not what would make the sub behind you less localizeable. Being more or less localizeable would depend more on the subwoofer design itself, the crossover frequency used, and the crossover slope. MBM-12 should not be localizeable when used in the nearfield with 80Hz crossover, even in your room MUCHO. It really would have worked out superbly in my opinion. Maybe in the future we'll get a chance to try it out at your place.

Well I didnt know that about the Audyssey. Yes I was hoping to find a
local enthusiast , I even posted that on here with no luck . I do have an analog SLP meter from rack shack but as far as test tones or better yet room EQ(REW?) I would have no idea how to apply it,what to look for or even how to use it . I have to hurry, we pulled the trigger on Monitor Audio GS10's(2-pairs) with the matching center(GSLCR) scheduled to be here on the 14th.

I can't comment on the HSU option as I never heard them. I can only comment on the Conquest.

The first thing you really need to get comfortable with about the Conquest is it size. It is absolutely huge (36H x 22W x 30D inches), so it does not work for everyone. If you have the room such that it fits, then this thing is a beast for both HT and music.

I have the Conquest paired with the Klipsch RF-83 and it blends seamlessly for music. The 18" driver is very quick, providing very good, tight musical bass. Should also blend well with your Athenas as they go down to 35 Hz. It does not blend well with mains that only go to 60 Hz. Since getting the Conquest and the RF-83s I have started to listen to music again.

However, the Conquest really shines for HT. If you are really into HT this thing will make you smile every time you watch a movie. Lot of subs provide rumble (albeit full of distortion) The Conquest gives you 110+ dB of clean, undistorted bass down to 12 Hz. It gives the impact (slam) that I was looking for. I have it in my basement HT, on a carpet, concrete floor, and it shakes the concrete foundations. And with the 18", very long extension driver it moves enough air for you to feel the air movement.
i.e. in LOTR Return of the King, in the Nazgul fly by scenes, you feel the air moving az Nazgul flaps its wings. Talk about realism, talk about impressive.

Even my wife, who thought I had brain damage when she saw the enormous crate being delivered, is now a Conquest fan. The performance overcame the WAF.

(When I bought it, I had not started my HT yet. Now it is out of sight, below the projection screen, in the custom AV cabinet I had built.)

The Conquest is worth every penny and then some, at least to me.
Great investment!

StopTheExcuses, I take it that you don't have a power outlet anywhere at the back of the room?

Right now, do you feel it lacking a little bit in terms of mid-bass impact, deep bass impact, or both?

A good way to get more punch and impact would be to move the subwoofer close to the listening position. If that is not possible at all, then adding a second subwoofer or getting a more powerful subwoofer(s) is always a very valid option.

Fortunately it seems that localization is not an issue anymore, you just need more output capability. Any of the options mentioned so far should do the trick

Sincerely,

I see what you mean! So do you currently feel lacking most in mid-bass impact, deep bass impact, or both? Also, have you tried experimenting with the variable tuning modes? I'm curious which mode you prefer right now...

For more deep bass impact, it will definitely pay off to add a second subwoofer or to have a more powerful subwoofer. I suspect that you could use two subs, one between the right speaker and TV and one between the left speaker and TV, and this would give higher output, smoother response, and less issues with localization.

Sincerely,

It should be just fine to have the woofers firing that way. Bass wavelengths are relatively long, so the orientation of the woofer shouldn't make a huge difference, especially in the deeper bass. Just make sure to give at least 2" of space in between the woofer and any surface it fires into, and at least 3-4" of space in between the ports and any surface they fire into.

I take it that you placed your Conquest on it's side? Many people like it better that way.

One of the best suggestions was given to you early on in this thread. A pair of AV123 MFW-15's placed up front would give you what you are looking for and it would be a lot cheaper than the Conquest. In fact it is probably cheaper than any of the other options that you have been looking at. It may take awhile to get them unless you look at B stock, but since you currently have a sub the wait should not be too bad if you decide to go that route.

My fault. I apologize. I did not realizing you had the ability to take the layout of his room and calculate how a MBM would give him a flat response curve and more headroom. Please, share with me how you managed to determine this? More headroom I get - the rest ... ???

I used my room as an example of how a MBM does not ALWAYS equal a flat response curve without introducing other issues. I am the first to admit I cannot possibly figure out what would happen with a MBM added into the eqution in the OPs room.

To wit: you cheer lead your own setup around here like crazy but I've not even seen you post any measurements of any kind. (Perhaps I just missed them) In a way you remind me of me when I had my SVS 20-39 - I was very happy but had no idea what I was talking about. Truly ignorance was bliss.

How can you know that the MBM will not give you a flatter response in your room without having ever tried the unit in your room? I'm not quite sure I follow. Realistically, there is very very little chance that the MBM would not lead to a flatter system response at the listening position.

Anyway, in the case of the original poster, it's better to start with a different solution. In the future, to boost performance he could try using a couple MBM to flank the main L/R speakers, and then place the true sub(s) in the front corner.

If you can find the space, just get the Conquest and you'll never second-guess yourself. It will have slam, dig deep, and not even break a sweat. Given the likelihood that you won't be spending that much time and effort (and it can take some serious effort) trying to flatten your curve, using non-colocated duals might not have the benefit for you that it would have for others.

In terms of comparing it to 2 MFW's -- I'll be able to compare it soon myself, as my MFW duals should be here in a month (and I already own a Conquest). But I can't give you a direct comparo from personal experience. The single Conquest should dig deeper, but there is more flexibility when you use duals.

Maybe by the time the new Hsu comes out, I'll be able to convince my wife to allow a sub in the bedroom. Then I'll have one room each for Epik, AV123, SVS, and Hsu, and be able to do some firsthand comparisons a little better.

BTW, I love your color scheme.

GO DEVILS!! Class of '96 here

Since it sounds like you are running out of room to store your subwoofers I am willing to store any of them for you free of charge. Just send me what you want stored. My room is rather large so a Conquest or two would hardly be noticed, that is until it is turned on.